About Zero

[BallZ]

Ally and Captain Zack were never physical. They had some kind of romance, which Zack intiated, but both parties say they never had sex. Doubt they even kissed. You shouldn't perpetuate misinformation.

Its unclear to what degree future misdeeds can be prevented with harsh punishments. Most of the people who got outed did what they did knowing full we'll that they'd be screwed if it got out. And they did it anyway. But trying to figure out why all of this could happen in the first place is a lot harder and less satisfying than punishing perpetrators.

And Ally and Zero are not just perpetrators, they are people too, and the smash scene owes it's existence to people like them who were willing to dedicate their lives to the game. They both screwed up. But lots of people screw up. And their misdeeds have been totally blown out of proportion. Neither of them did anything that constitutes pedophilia. Zero was grooming. Ally didn't even do that. I think they should've been banned for 1-2 years. Whereas people like D1, Keitaro and Cinnpie who commited far worse crimes should be banned for life. Nevertheless, I do understand that it's simply not possible for them to ever come back the way things are now.

Cancel Culture is a lot of things. Such as punishing all offenses the same irregardless of how serious they are and not considering circumstances at all. And it's misusing words and terms and phrasing things to make them sound worse than they actually are. For example by calling stuff pedophilia when it isn't. It's also not bothering to get facts straight and spreading misinformation. And hastily banning players who didn't do anything wrong. And much more.

I mean you did some of this with your post. Saying Ally had sex with a teenager when he was almost 30. Why not just write their actual ages? And why the whole sex part when that never happened?

I said Ally was almost thirty because he was 28 when he was outed, and It judging by CaptainZack's sexually aggressive nature and the fact that he threatened to expose Ally suggests something physical happened between them. If they were just casual friends, then what was CaptainZack going to expose him with? Clearly it was something bad if Ally threw matches just to keep his career.

Yes they are perpetrators of grooming minors. I don't care how good they are at a videogame, that doesn't excuse their degenerate and predatory behavior towards minors. A mistake is something you do without intent due to a lack of knowledge, they did what they did knowing it was wrong which is why they kept it a secret. The screenshots showed Zero continuously messaging the girl after she revealed her age, he said very sexually suggestive stuff like "i want more than a belly rub", how do you explain that as an accident? As for the other predators, two wrongs don't make a right. A lifetime ban is the best possible way to establish that this behavior is not welcome in the community, no matter how influential or liked the perpetrator is.

For the last part, when the players themselves confess to their wrong doings and there is enough photo evidence to back it up, its not a kneejerk reaction to ban them. People were on Zero's side when he was first accused despite the evidence, it wasn't until he confessed to them when they wrote him off. I'd say the biggest problem that led to these people infiltrating the community is enabler culture, as long as youre famous enough, then its perfectly fine to commit heinous crimes.

 

[Goomboi]

Here's my take, Barrios did awful things, we can all agree on that. I don't believe he should have his life ruined, just as I feel prisoners should be able to get back to normal after they have served their time. I do however think he should not be allowed in this community again, as that's setting the example of " You did something terrible but since something terrible happened to you because of what you did we will all just forget about it. " Put yourself in the place of the victims, you work up the courage to come out about this stuff, after a while they come back and everyone acts like nothing happens. They are put in the same position of power as before. In conclusion Barrios should not have his life ruined, but he shouldn't be allowed in this community again.

 

[xzx]

Exclusive ZERO Interview: Life & Wellness Update

This video was uploaded by EEvisu earlier today and then made unavailable for some reason. It's definitely not intended to bring Zero back to the smash commu...

www.youtube.com

Update video about Zero. (Video or channel are not mine.)

 

[Janx_uwu]

I watched the interview. TL;DR for those who didn't:
After being outed for sending and recieving creepy messages/possibly p0rn from a 14 year old, Zero badly bruised his spine while doing motocross. It took him quite a while to recover-and when he finally got back on the bike, he landed in a way where his ankle exploded. The pain was so bad that he was not able to go back to the gym, do motocross, or perform even the most basic stuff. The pain is still there (this happened in September, I believe) and only recently has he been able to lift up heavier objects again. This, combined with his deplatforming and poor mental health that has apparently persisted throughout his life, led to Zero's attempted suicide. He is okay, and nowadays does not feel suicidal at all. He feels afraid to go out in public for fear of recognition by those who hate him, and has panic attacks from seemingly small triggers-things like going on social media, thinking about going on social media, or even when someone calls him Zero.

But this paragraph really does not do the interview justice. I highly recommend watching it for yourself if you can. Hearing the words from Zero himself does make all the difference.
This interview has given way to a lot of different responses to Zero. Some welcome him back whenever he feels like it. Others don't want him to come back but are glad he's okay. And others hate him and don't want him to speak another word in public for as long as he lives.
And...man. I'm just glad he's doing ok. I used to be a big fan of his content back in the day, and while it doesn't appeal to me as much these days, I still enjoy hearing his voice because he just seems like a great person to be around.
I don't remember exactly how EE put it, but it went something like this: you get one chance in life, and one bad decision-or a string of bad decisions, even-shouldn't take that one chance away. As of this writing, it's been almost a year since Zero was outed, made a statement-a pretty good one at that, compared to the other ones floating around at that time-and disappeared. It's really up to our community and Zero himself on whether we are ready to forgive and accept him back. I sure am, but maybe it should be a slower process than what some of his fans were hoping for. This interview would've been a good start had it not been for Jisu taking it down. Zero's still really young, and we shouldn't let his previous actions keep him from enjoying the rest of his life to the fullest.
So, what does the future hold? Not sure, honestly. I'm really interested to see what Technicals has to say about Jisu-controversial as he may be, I haven't come across a video of his where he's come to a wrong conclusion. Unlike many of Zero's haters, I'm willing to see all sides of this story. As for Zero...well, I think he'll come back. But not soon, and not in the way we expect. Maybe he'll wait until his ankle fully heals and start making motocross videos. Maybe he'll appeal to have his Twitch ban lifted (though I doubt it would go through-if Nairo's appeal won't be approved even though he wasn't the perpetrator in his situation, I doubt Zero's would since he was the perpetrator in this situation). But one thing's for certain-Zero will never come back to competitive Smash. I think he considered it back in February/March-and now that I think about it, he did go to the first Box tournament as Little Mac-but after this incident, I just don't see him coming back. He has a ton of opposition and, not only would he not want to go to an in-person (or even online) tournament, his anxiety would make it an extremely uncomfortable experience.
Again, what Zero did was awful-relationships with a popular figure are extremely one-sided, especially when it is with a younger teen. But Zero was 19, and his brain was not even fully developed yet. I'm not saying that excuses him-being a teenager does not give you a free pass. But there should definitely be some leeway. Teens-no matter how old-aren't fully responsible for their actions. Given that it's been about 7 years since that incident and Zero hasn't done anything like it since and feels extreme remorse for his actions, I don't think it's unreasonable to forgive him.

 

[BallZ]

I watched the interview. TL;DR for those who didn't:
After being outed for sending and recieving creepy messages/possibly p0rn from a 14 year old, Zero badly bruised his spine while doing motocross. It took him quite a while to recover-and when he finally got back on the bike, he landed in a way where his ankle exploded. The pain was so bad that he was not able to go back to the gym, do motocross, or perform even the most basic stuff. The pain is still there (this happened in September, I believe) and only recently has he been able to lift up heavier objects again. This, combined with his deplatforming and poor mental health that has apparently persisted throughout his life, led to Zero's attempted suicide. He is okay, and nowadays does not feel suicidal at all. He feels afraid to go out in public for fear of recognition by those who hate him, and has panic attacks from seemingly small triggers-things like going on social media, thinking about going on social media, or even when someone calls him Zero.

But this paragraph really does not do the interview justice. I highly recommend watching it for yourself if you can. Hearing the words from Zero himself does make all the difference.
This interview has given way to a lot of different responses to Zero. Some welcome him back whenever he feels like it. Others don't want him to come back but are glad he's okay. And others hate him and don't want him to speak another word in public for as long as he lives.
And...man. I'm just glad he's doing ok. I used to be a big fan of his content back in the day, and while it doesn't appeal to me as much these days, I still enjoy hearing his voice because he just seems like a great person to be around.
I don't remember exactly how EE put it, but it went something like this: you get one chance in life, and one bad decision-or a string of bad decisions, even-shouldn't take that one chance away. As of this writing, it's been almost a year since Zero was outed, made a statement-a pretty good one at that, compared to the other ones floating around at that time-and disappeared. It's really up to our community and Zero himself on whether we are ready to forgive and accept him back. I sure am, but maybe it should be a slower process than what some of his fans were hoping for. This interview would've been a good start had it not been for Jisu taking it down. Zero's still really young, and we shouldn't let his previous actions keep him from enjoying the rest of his life to the fullest.
So, what does the future hold? Not sure, honestly. I'm really interested to see what Technicals has to say about Jisu-controversial as he may be, I haven't come across a video of his where he's come to a wrong conclusion. Unlike many of Zero's haters, I'm willing to see all sides of this story. As for Zero...well, I think he'll come back. But not soon, and not in the way we expect. Maybe he'll wait until his ankle fully heals and start making motocross videos. Maybe he'll appeal to have his Twitch ban lifted (though I doubt it would go through-if Nairo's appeal won't be approved even though he wasn't the perpetrator in his situation, I doubt Zero's would since he was the perpetrator in this situation). But one thing's for certain-Zero will never come back to competitive Smash. I think he considered it back in February/March-and now that I think about it, he did go to the first Box tournament as Little Mac-but after this incident, I just don't see him coming back. He has a ton of opposition and, not only would he not want to go to an in-person (or even online) tournament, his anxiety would make it an extremely uncomfortable experience.
Again, what Zero did was awful-relationships with a popular figure are extremely one-sided, especially when it is with a younger teen. But Zero was 19, and his brain was not even fully developed yet. I'm not saying that excuses him-being a teenager does not give you a free pass. But there should definitely be some leeway. Teens-no matter how old-aren't fully responsible for their actions. Given that it's been about 7 years since that incident and Zero hasn't done anything like it since and feels extreme remorse for his actions, I don't think it's unreasonable to forgive him.

He was not a teenager, he was a 19 year old man. He did what he did knowingly as evident with never coming out about it until he was forced to. Should we only hold people accountable when they're closer to 30?

He made the decision and deserves to pay the price for it. How he copes with it is entirely his business, not ours or the communities. It becomes a slippery slope when we concern ourselves about him and give him a platform, especially with all the idiots who want him back, because he will eventually just creep back in like nothing happened.

Like Leffen said, he's lucky he never had charges pressed against him, so if convicted criminals can start over, then he definitely can.

 

[Doc Monocle]

I agree with this...

He did what he did knowingly as evident with never coming out about it until he was forced to. Should we only hold people accountable when they're closer to 30?

Everyone is accountable for their own moral/immoral actions, regardless of age (young children are accountable for their own actions too, though they often do not take the time to think for themselves about right or wrong since they often do not understand the gravity. In another sense, WE do not understand the gravity of wrong-doing either, or we would be perfect. Infants obviously have lesser understanding, and do not even make moral decisions.)

I agree with this...

He made the decision and deserves to pay the price for it.

Everyone desrves to pay beyond the last penny for their misdeeds. That is where repentance, forgiveness, and mercy are important. No one has (while living) paid the full price for their wrong-doings. For this reason, I often try to avoid saying as the quote above, although it is very true.

I disagree with this...

How he copes with it is entirely his business, not ours or the communities. It becomes a slippery slope when we concern ourselves about him and give him a platform, especially with all the idiots who want him back, because he will eventually just creep back in like nothing happened.

If you do something wrong, would you not like to know that someone cares about you, even after they disciplined you? I am not sure whether Zero should actually be allowed to return, as I still have yet to uncover sufficient details, but what if he genuinely were repentant, should he never be allowed to demonstrate it? Suppose it were discovered that you did something HORRIBLE a long time ago (or perhaps recently), and because of it, you were no longer allowed to enjoy something that your career revolved around. Suppose that in your heart, you hated that you had ever done that thing, but it is too late. Someone decided for you that you will no longer be able to engage in the activity that has been your livelihood for so long (your whole life even).

Should you ever get another chance? After all, the person(s) who decided to disallow you access cannot reach into your mind to say that you are or are not sincerely repentant, so they default on the 'safe' side, and leave you as you are... and with no one in the community of interest to think about you. Would that not be miserable, albeit deserved?

Are the penalties for our actions to dissuade us from doing those things when there are people who have no interest in being lawful (irrespective of those penalties), or are they present to facilitate life, health, and happiness? If the former is true, then the laws/penalties are not really doing the job that is supposed of them. If the latter is true, then should not Zero at least be cared about if not given a second chance?

 

[Ben Holt]

4 year age difference is not pedophilia.
There is no magical force that happens at age 18 that cuts you off from being attracted to people in your age group.

Furthermore, while harassment is bad, let us remember that there's a HUGE difference between sexual harassment and forced penetration.

Unless there is a pattern of repeated behavior, a lifetime ban is excessive.

He was not a teenager, he was a 19 year old man. He did what he did knowingly as evident with never coming out about it until he was forced to. Should we only hold people accountable when they're closer to 30?

The punishment must fit the crime.
There's a HUGE difference when the age difference is 4 years instead of 15 years.

I swear, people lose their brains whenever a scandal involves sexuality.

Comparing Zero to a rapist is like comparing someone who got into a nasty bar fight to a serial killer.
CONTEXT ****ING MATTERS.

 

[Goomboi]

The problem is he lied about it. If he didn't lie and try to cover it up, I would be more open to him coming back.

 

[Ben Holt]

The problem is he lied about it. If he didn't lie and try to cover it up, I would be more open to him coming back.

Yes. While that is bad, let's still not forget that what's out there is very minor (no pun intended).

I guaran-damn-tee that every guy on this Board has screwed up a flirt before thinking they were being sexy while actually being, for lack of a better word, creepy.

 

[Goomboi]

Yes. While that is bad, let's still not forget that what's out there is very minor (no pun intended).

I guaran-damn-tee that every guy on this Board has screwed up a flirt before thinking they were being sexy while actually being, for lack of a better word, creepy.

Yes I see your point but people would feel unsafe if he came back, and the health of the community means more than some washed pro coming back anyway. He could go to a different community, because as far as I'm concerned he's been dealt with, and we don't need to open up old wounds.

 

[BallZ]

4 year age difference is not pedophilia.
There is no magical force that happens at age 18 that cuts you off from being attracted to people in your age group.

Furthermore, while harassment is bad, let us remember that there's a HUGE difference between sexual harassment and forced penetration.

Unless there is a pattern of repeated behavior, a lifetime ban is excessive.



The punishment must fit the crime.
There's a HUGE difference when the age difference is 4 years instead of 15 years.

I swear, people lose their brains whenever a scandal involves sexuality.

Comparing Zero to a rapist is like comparing someone who got into a nasty bar fight to a serial killer.
CONTEXT ****ING MATTERS.

No, Zero is more like an attempted murderer compared to a serial killer. Bar fight isn't necessarily murder. When top level influencers are outed for grooming minors in a community filled with minors, it's no wonder people get upset.

 

[BallZ]

4 year age difference is not pedophilia.
There is no magical force that happens at age 18 that cuts you off from being attracted to people in your age group.

Furthermore, while harassment is bad, let us remember that there's a HUGE difference between sexual harassment and forced penetration.

Unless there is a pattern of repeated behavior, a lifetime ban is excessive.



The punishment must fit the crime.
There's a HUGE difference when the age difference is 4 years instead of 15 years.

I swear, people lose their brains whenever a scandal involves sexuality.

Comparing Zero to a rapist is like comparing someone who got into a nasty bar fight to a serial killer.
CONTEXT ****ING MATTERS.

No, Zero is more like an attempted murderer compared to a serial killer. Bar fight isn't necessarily murder. When top level influencers are outed for grooming minors in a community filled with

I agree with this...



Everyone is accountable for their own moral/immoral actions, regardless of age (young children are accountable for their own actions too, though they often do not take the time to think for themselves about right or wrong since they often do not understand the gravity. In another sense, WE do not understand the gravity of wrong-doing either, or we would be perfect. Infants obviously have lesser understanding, and do not even make moral decisions.)

I agree with this...


Everyone desrves to pay beyond the last penny for their misdeeds. That is where repentance, forgiveness, and mercy are important. No one has (while living) paid the full price for their wrong-doings. For this reason, I often try to avoid saying as the quote above, although it is very true.

I disagree with this...


If you do something wrong, would you not like to know that someone cares about you, even after they disciplined you? I am not sure whether Zero should actually be allowed to return, as I still have yet to uncover sufficient details, but what if he genuinely were repentant, should he never be allowed to demonstrate it? Suppose it were discovered that you did something HORRIBLE a long time ago (or perhaps recently), and because of it, you were no longer allowed to enjoy something that your career revolved around. Suppose that in your heart, you hated that you had ever done that thing, but it is too late. Someone decided for you that you will no longer be able to engage in the activity that has been your livelihood for so long (your whole life even).

Should you ever get another chance? After all, the person(s) who decided to disallow you access cannot reach into your mind to say that you are or are not sincerely repentant, so they default on the 'safe' side, and leave you as you are... and with no one in the community of interest to think about you. Would that not be miserable, albeit deserved?

Are the penalties for our actions to dissuade us from doing those things when there are people who have no interest in being lawful (irrespective of those penalties), or are they present to facilitate life, health, and happiness? If the former is true, then the laws/penalties are not really doing the job that is supposed of them. If the latter is true, then should not Zero at least be cared about if not given a second chance?

There is no gray area for this my dude, grooming minors should be treated in an absolute fashion. Zero screwed up big, and as a man he has to deal with it just like every other criminal. He's lucky he didn't have any charges pressed against him.

as a community, we should worry more about safety and responsibilities.

 

[BallZ]

Yes. While that is bad, let's still not forget that what's out there is very minor (no pun intended).

I guaran-damn-tee that every guy on this Board has screwed up a flirt before thinking they were being sexy while actually being, for lack of a better word, creepy.

stop trying to downplay what he did. Being awkward with girls is not the same as trying to solicit explicit pictures from a minor.

 

[Ben Holt]

stop trying to downplay what he did. Being awkward with girls is not the same as trying to solicit explicit pictures from a minor.

Context matters. Their ages are too close to be considered an assault against a minor.
There is a buffer period of five years in most states before the hard line age of consent goes into effect.
If you're 18 with a 16 year old partner, is THAT unacceptable?
What about 18 and 17 years, 365 days on a leap year?

This is not downplaying. It's simply understanding that not all sex offenses are equal. They were BOTH TEENAGERS.

When I was in High School, I was a Senior sharing a drama class with a Freshman boy whom I had a crush on.
No one batted an eye, because an age gap that small is normal.

Yes, it was wrong to harass her; that's given. But to put him in the same camp as pedophiles is absolutely ludicrous, and a lifetime ban is excessive.

By this logic, the moment you turn 18, you must cut yourself off from anyone a day younger.
Ask yourself this:
If an 18 year old boy consentually sends a you-know-what pic to his 17 year, 364 day old girlfriend, should he be charged with distributing porn to a minor?
If you answer yes, you're being willfully obtuse.

These laws are to protect young people from predators, not to stop teenagers from experimenting with each other.

So while I will not exonerate the harassment, I will not concede that the age gap is a wash. Because it's within the 5 year buffer period granted by most states, stating that the victim was a minor is completely irrelevant at best and intentionally provocative at worst.

 

[BallZ]

Context matters. Their ages are too close to be considered an assault against a minor.
There is a buffer period of five years in most states before the hard line age of consent goes into effect.
If you're 18 with a 16 year old partner, is THAT unacceptable?
What about 18 and 17 years, 365 days on a leap year?

This is not downplaying. It's simply understanding that not all sex offenses are equal. They were BOTH TEENAGERS.

When I was in High School, I was a Senior sharing a drama class with a Freshman boy whom I had a crush on.
No one batted an eye, because an age gap that small is normal.

Yes, it was wrong to harass her; that's given. But to put him in the same camp as pedophiles is absolutely ludicrous, and a lifetime ban is excessive.

By this logic, the moment you turn 18, you must cut yourself off from anyone a day younger.
Ask yourself this:
If an 18 year old boy consentually sends a you-know-what pic to his 17 year, 364 day old girlfriend, should he be charged with distributing porn to a minor?
If you answer yes, you're being willfully obtuse.

These laws are to protect young people from predators, not to stop teenagers from experimenting with each other.

So while I will not exonerate the harassment, I will not concede that the age gap is a wash. Because it's within the 5 year buffer period granted by most states, stating that the victim was a minor is completely irrelevant at best and intentionally provocative at worst.

He wasn't a teenager, he was a 19 year old adult trying to solicit nudes from a 14 year old while wanting to fly another 14 year old to South America for "legal" sex.

Stop trying to muddy the situation with pharasaical logic.

 

[Doc Monocle]

There is no gray area for this my dude, grooming minors should be treated in an absolute fashion. Zero screwed up big, and as a man he has to deal with it just like every other criminal. He's lucky he didn't have any charges pressed against him.

as a community, we should worry more about safety and responsibilities.

I am in no gray area, I assure you. I have made no firm assertion that Zero should or should not come back (I could not), and neither have I danced between these possibilities (I should not). I left a few open questions to let viewers compare how they would be treated themselves with how they would treat someone who is not... themselves. If after making such a comparison, the viewer still holds that that Zero should be given no second chance, then I cannot and would not dare to argue, for the mind is then made up. However, I would caution the viewers that whatever standard they choose, they will eventually be expected to be prepared to be measured by that standard.

 

[StoicPhantom]

In an effort to keep this thread from devolving into Twitter I'm going to come back and clarify some terms that are lightly thrown around.


Grooming

Grooming is where a groomer attempts to worm their way into their target's social life and community and subsequently into their psychology in order to emotionally extort them into meeting their demands. They do this by first gaining trust with adults in their target's life or becoming a trusted adult themselves in order to establish a cover to hang around their target. Then they attempt to exploit any feelings of loneliness or fear to build trust with their target and position themselves as a solution to their target's problems. Once that connection has been established is when they turn up the pressure and threaten to leave if their target doesn't acquiesce to their demands.

Grooming is thus a setup for emotional extortion and groomers are emotional blackmailers that create situations where they will have emotional leverage.


Predator

Much like in the wild, human predators that prey on humans are assailants that methodically hunt and subdue their prey, with the added caveat that they need to avoid detection from other humans to keep safe. Unlike groomers, there is no limit to what they will do to accomplish that. They operate by first selecting a target that they deem vulnerable and then proceed to impair their ability to reason so they can then isolate them from the rest of society and subsequently subdue them.

Predators are those whose psychology leads them into seeing fellow humans as prey and they are what you might consider experts in preying upon other humans. There is no limit to what they can do or how they go about hunting others provided that it doesn't put them at risk of detection.


An example of grooming would be men who marry single mothers to get to their daughters or those who hunt social media for lonely and depressed individuals and try to establish a relationship.

An example of predators are serial killers or those who hunt frat parties for newcomers that aren't experienced at safely navigating risky situations.


Most of the allegations, including ZeRo, would probably be classified as "opportunists" or those who would only commit these acts when the opportunity presents itself. Finding a passed out drunk woman at a party and engaging in various sexual acts with her unconscious body is an example of opportunism.


As far as whether ZeRo should be allowed back into the community, not that any of you have the right or authority to decide that or speak for others, I think that point is moot as he stated even before this incident that he doesn't really want to come back to a community that treated him poorly. After this incident I don't see why he or anyone that was accused, rightly or wrongly, would ever want to come back to a community that destroyed them without a second thought.

But as he explained in that video he now suffers from PTSD and seems to be incapable of even streaming or creating content. So this arrogant and bizarre posturing over trying to gatekeep a community you don't have any authority over is just that.

He could go to a different community

As he stated in that video he's having trouble getting a job because they uncover all of this when they search his name. The issue with making this highly public is that it doesn't take much effort for people who don't know him to learn about this incident. That's why this doesn't end at banning him from the Smash community.

He wasn't a teenager, he was a 19 year old

Last I checked that still means he was a teenager. Hence the "teen" part of nineteen.

while wanting to fly another 14 year old to South America for "legal" sex.

Do you have a source for this or are you spreading misinformation again?

 

[BallZ]

In an effort to keep this thread from devolving into Twitter I'm going to come back and clarify some terms that are lightly thrown around.


Grooming

Grooming is where a groomer attempts to worm their way into their target's social life and community and subsequently into their psychology in order to emotionally extort them into meeting their demands. They do this by first gaining trust with adults in their target's life or becoming a trusted adult themselves in order to establish a cover to hang around their target. Then they attempt to exploit any feelings of loneliness or fear to build trust with their target and position themselves as a solution to their target's problems. Once that connection has been established is when they turn up the pressure and threaten to leave if their target doesn't acquiesce to their demands.

Grooming is thus a setup for emotional extortion and groomers are emotional blackmailers that create situations where they will have emotional leverage.


Predator

Much like in the wild, human predators that prey on humans are assailants that methodically hunt and subdue their prey, with the added caveat that they need to avoid detection from other humans to keep safe. Unlike groomers, there is no limit to what they will do to accomplish that. They operate by first selecting a target that they deem vulnerable and then proceed to impair their ability to reason so they can then isolate them from the rest of society and subsequently subdue them.

Predators are those whose psychology leads them into seeing fellow humans as prey and they are what you might consider experts in preying upon other humans. There is no limit to what they can do or how they go about hunting others provided that it doesn't put them at risk of detection.


An example of grooming would be men who marry single mothers to get to their daughters or those who hunt social media for lonely and depressed individuals and try to establish a relationship.

An example of predators are serial killers or those who hunt frat parties for newcomers that aren't experienced at safely navigating risky situations.


Most of the allegations, including ZeRo, would probably be classified as "opportunists" or those who would only commit these acts when the opportunity presents itself. Finding a passed out drunk woman at a party and engaging in various sexual acts with her unconscious body is an example of opportunism.


As far as whether ZeRo should be allowed back into the community, not that any of you have the right or authority to decide that or speak for others, I think that point is moot as he stated even before this incident that he doesn't really want to come back to a community that treated him poorly. After this incident I don't see why he or anyone that was accused, rightly or wrongly, would ever want to come back to a community that destroyed them without a second thought.

But as he explained in that video he now suffers from PTSD and seems to be incapable of even streaming or creating content. So this arrogant and bizarre posturing over trying to gatekeep a community you don't have any authority over is just that.


As he stated in that video he's having trouble getting a job because they uncover all of this when they search his name. The issue with making this highly public is that it doesn't take much effort for people who don't know him to learn about this incident. That's why this doesn't end at banning him from the Smash community.


Last I checked that still means he was a teenager. Hence the "teen" part of nineteen.


Do you have a source for this or are you spreading misinformation again?

legally an adult in America is 18, he was one year over that. Age of consent can varry, some places it's 16, but these girls were 14. Also as for the flying the girl to South America thing, it was documented with pics in Jisus twitlonger.

 

[Hippieslayer]

I said Ally was almost thirty because he was 28 when he was outed, and It judging by CaptainZack's sexually aggressive nature and the fact that he threatened to expose Ally suggests something physical happened between them. If they were just casual friends, then what was CaptainZack going to expose him with? Clearly it was something bad if Ally threw matches just to keep his career.

Yes they are perpetrators of grooming minors. I don't care how good they are at a videogame, that doesn't excuse their degenerate and predatory behavior towards minors. A mistake is something you do without intent due to a lack of knowledge, they did what they did knowing it was wrong which is why they kept it a secret. The screenshots showed Zero continuously messaging the girl after she revealed her age, he said very sexually suggestive stuff like "i want more than a belly rub", how do you explain that as an accident? As for the other predators, two wrongs don't make a right. A lifetime ban is the best possible way to establish that this behavior is not welcome in the community, no matter how influential or liked the perpetrator is.

For the last part, when the players themselves confess to their wrong doings and there is enough photo evidence to back it up, its not a kneejerk reaction to ban them. People were on Zero's side when he was first accused despite the evidence, it wasn't until he confessed to them when they wrote him off. I'd say the biggest problem that led to these people infiltrating the community is enabler culture, as long as youre famous enough, then its perfectly fine to commit heinous crimes.

He was able to black mail Ally because they were romantically involved. Being romantically involved with a minor is def something bad enough to constitute black mail material even without sex or other physical stuff.

The type of mistake you describe in your second paragraph is one particular type of mistake and not the one I was using. A mistake doesn't have to be something you did by mistake. It can also just be something stupid you did that in hindsight was clearly a mistake. Of course Zero did what he did knowing full well what he was doing.

S StoicPhantom

So what do you think about the reaction to EE's interview with Zero? One of Zero's victims called it a slap in the face of her and the other victims. And I believe the video has been made private.

 

[Alicorn]

I do not like how a lot of people on this thread are giving Zero a pass. It does not matter if he was 19 in the states an adult is someone who is eighteen or older. In the eyes of the law what Zero was doing was wrong.

 

[Ben Holt]

I do not like how a lot of people on this thread are giving Zero a pass. It does not matter if he was 19 in the states an adult is someone who is eighteen or older. In the eyes of the law what Zero was doing was wrong.

Look up the 5 year buffer.
Is an 18 year old with a 17 year old illegal? No.
That's why the buffer period exists, because teens have sex with each other, and if turning 18 IMMEDIATELY blocks you off from anyone a day younger, then every highschool boy would be a sex offender.

 

[Alicorn]

Ben a 17 dating an 18 year old is not illegal but what Zero did is


Is it enough to go to jail over it depends on if the minor's parents want to press charges but that also means you become brand poison.

 

[Ben Holt]

Ben a 17 dating an 18 year old is not illegal but what Zero did is

Sexual harassment is illegal at any age.
The closeness in age (4 years) makes it specifically NOT pedophilia. I am not defending Zero against allegations of harassment; I'm defending him again allegations of pedophilia. 4 years is not enough of an age difference to label him as a child predator.

And if you accept that an 18 year old with a 17 year old is fine, where do you draw the line? What's your ideal buffer zone?


EDIT: As far as offering to fly a 14 year old to South America to skirt past US Age of Consent laws, I am unaware of these allegations. But sexual tourism is not legal in the United States.
Again, context matters, so I'd have to know the details of the allegation to make any judgement one way or the other.

 

[Alicorn]

4 years in age is enough to get you label as a pedophile in the US.

Romeo Juliet laws only apply to those who are at least 15 years old and their partner cannot be more than 4 years. She was 14, he was 19, he was too old to be doing what he was doing with someone her age. The only way around that is if he had gotten her parents permission which he did not.

I accept a 16 and 18 dating because it does not violate the law. 15-18 makes me uncomfortable and so does it to a lot of people in the states.

If Zero did offer to fly someone to South America to skirt the law then it shows a pattern of behavior which would only reinforce his pedophile label.

 

[Ben Holt]

4 years in age is enough to get you label as a pedophile in the US.

Romeo Juliet laws only apply to those who are at least 15 years old and their partner cannot be more than 4 years. She was 14, he was 19, he was too old to be doing what he was doing with someone her age. The only way around that is if he had gotten her parents permission which he did not.

I accept a 16 and 18 dating because it does not violate the law. 15-18 makes me uncomfortable and so does it to a lot of people in the states.

If Zero did offer to fly someone to South America to skirt the law then it shows a pattern of behavior which would only reinforce his pedophile label.

Every state has different laws.
My own state has a buffer period of TEN years, which is beyond my comfort zone, but that's how it is.

But legality ≠ morality. Same sex marriage was illegal for a long time, yet homosexuality was never immoral. Furthermore, most, if not all US states, would say that 15-19 is ok. That's literally close enough in age to go to High School together, and I've known plenty of Senior-Freshman couples that were never questioned.

To call someone a pedophile is a HUGE indictment on their character, and I will firmly defend Zero from that label until evidence proves otherwise.

Unwanted sexual advancements, IE harassment? Yes. Clearly.

Pedophilia? Absolutely not. Absurd stretch.

 

[Sucumbio]

I wouldn't say anyone in this thread has defended his actions. It's more about accountability. And much more about the way in which these stories came to light and how so many people jumped on the chance to go on record against his behaviors.

As for him being a pedo it's honestly impossible to know for sure unless you are fly on the wall during his therapy. Adolescent age groups are frankly difficult to implement legally which is why so many jurisdictions contradict one another. There are jurisdictions in the world who wouldn't balk at a young adult male dating a younger teenager. It may offend some sensibility but so long as it's legal there it's frankly moot.

When I was in high school in the early 90s the thought of an 18 yo senior (and we had a 19 yo too due to being sick a lot and had to repeat) dating a freshman (typically 13 or 14) was fairly taboo. The thinking was essentially date someone your own age. I cannot claim to know if that's changed but I imagine it's still awkward to see for some. But make no mistake soliciting is absolutely illegal anywhere in the US between a 19 yo and a 14 yo and that was his crime.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Going through the twitlonger I've found more alleged victims have been added since ZeRo's apology and departure which explains why I didn't hear about this before. Most of it is obvious bandwagoner stuff that are non-stories, but there is one that mentioned flying.

the main things i remember is him saying he can come visit me and we can take a hotel room and stuff

also saying he could fly me over to i think it was sweden to that gaming event idr the name of that its like a yearly thing iirc with a bunch of esports

either him flying to the netherlands, or flying me to dreamhack

It could potentially be nefarious, but the details and context are vague, and I don't believe ZeRo has addressed this. But "wanting to fly another 14 year old to South America for "legal" sex" is an exaggeration and is an example of why we research things before we post them.

legally an adult in America is 18, he was one year over that. Age of consent can varry, some places it's 16, but these girls were 14.

It's a language thing. Regardless of the legal age of majority, we refer to anyone between 13 and 19 as teenagers on account of the number range being -teen. It looks goofy when you claim he isn't a teenager and then say he's nineteen immediately after.

So what do you think about the reaction to EE's interview with Zero? One of Zero's victims called it a slap in the face of her and the other victims. And I believe the video has been made private.

Inappropriate, but not unexpected given who we are dealing with.

I think EE made it pretty clear that this was about ZeRo's health and wellness in the aftermath and not a statement about the incidents themselves. They barely mention these incidents in the video and it's almost entirely incidental when they do. Victim or no, no one has the right to control whether someone like ZeRo is allowed to have a voice and speak about his own troubles. "Platforming predators", "Being a slap to the victims" and other things are really just manipulative covers for their authoritarianism and desire to control. It is twisting morality and sympathy for victims and using them as a weapon to suppress people they don't like.

In the first place, ZeRo's alleged victims claimed all that they wanted was an apology from him. Going through that twitlonger again led to some shaky and convenient excuses as to why this couldn't be settled privately if that was all that they wanted. But I think this recent outburst really demonstrated that what they desired was more vindictive and retributive than they led on. They got their apology so there really isn't any need to try to completely erase his existence unless that was the goal all along. This is especially true for all the randoms that have absolutely nothing to do with these incidents, but can't help inserting themselves where they don't belong.


ZeRo has a right to a voice, and while I outlined earlier in the thread why it is difficult for public figures to fight back against the cancel culture mobs, I can't help but feel a little disappointed that EE didn't have the stones to keep the video up. The only way this can really end is if you stand up to the Twitter bullies and don't give them what they want. Because Cancel Culture is bullying at the end of the day, just on a grander scale than normal. Even if what they demand is completely unreasonable, as long as they have a large enough mob, public figures and institutions will have to bow to them. But being loud and obnoxious is their only power, so if you just ignore them then there isn't really anything they can do legally. Yes, they might be able to pressure platforms and sponsors to drop you or whatever, but that's just the occupational hazard of having integrity.

Regardless, ZeRo does have a right to existence and even if people feel they were wronged by him, they are overstepping their bounds here. I think in general this shows the rank hypocrisy of those who were performatively prefacing their statements with things like "Everyone has the right to live" and "I don't want anyone to commit suicide" and are now outraged that ZeRo dare let people know how he was doing and that he was ok. I don't condone anything he was accused of, but I can't say I have any respect for his alleged victims or the Twitter randos after how they handled this.

And all of this and other incidents have been leading me into believing that the most dangerous and monstrous person in all of this is the average one.

 

[BallZ]

Going through the twitlonger I've found more alleged victims have been added since ZeRo's apology and departure which explains why I didn't hear about this before. Most of it is obvious bandwagoner stuff that are non-stories, but there is one that mentioned flying.



It could potentially be nefarious, but the details and context are vague, and I don't believe ZeRo has addressed this. But "wanting to fly another 14 year old to South America for "legal" sex" is an exaggeration and is an example of why we research things before we post them.


It's a language thing. Regardless of the legal age of majority, we refer to anyone between 13 and 19 as teenagers on account of the number range being -teen. It looks goofy when you claim he isn't a teenager and then say he's nineteen immediately after.


Inappropriate, but not unexpected given who we are dealing with.

I think EE made it pretty clear that this was about ZeRo's health and wellness in the aftermath and not a statement about the incidents themselves. They barely mention these incidents in the video and it's almost entirely incidental when they do. Victim or no, no one has the right to control whether someone like ZeRo is allowed to have a voice and speak about his own troubles. "Platforming predators", "Being a slap to the victims" and other things are really just manipulative covers for their authoritarianism and desire to control. It is twisting morality and sympathy for victims and using them as a weapon to suppress people they don't like.

In the first place, ZeRo's alleged victims claimed all that they wanted was an apology from him. Going through that twitlonger again led to some shaky and convenient excuses as to why this couldn't be settled privately if that was all that they wanted. But I think this recent outburst really demonstrated that what they desired was more vindictive and retributive than they led on. They got their apology so there really isn't any need to try to completely erase his existence unless that was the goal all along. This is especially true for all the randoms that have absolutely nothing to do with these incidents, but can't help inserting themselves where they don't belong.


ZeRo has a right to a voice, and while I outlined earlier in the thread why it is difficult for public figures to fight back against the cancel culture mobs, I can't help but feel a little disappointed that EE didn't have the stones to keep the video up. The only way this can really end is if you stand up to the Twitter bullies and don't give them what they want. Because Cancel Culture is bullying at the end of the day, just on a grander scale than normal. Even if what they demand is completely unreasonable, as long as they have a large enough mob, public figures and institutions will have to bow to them. But being loud and obnoxious is their only power, so if you just ignore them then there isn't really anything they can do legally. Yes, they might be able to pressure platforms and sponsors to drop you or whatever, but that's just the occupational hazard of having integrity.

Regardless, ZeRo does have a right to existence and even if people feel they were wronged by him, they are overstepping their bounds here. I think in general this shows the rank hypocrisy of those who were performatively prefacing their statements with things like "Everyone has the right to live" and "I don't want anyone to commit suicide" and are now outraged that ZeRo dare let people know how he was doing and that he was ok. I don't condone anything he was accused of, but I can't say I have any respect for his alleged victims or the Twitter randos after how they handled this.

And all of this and other incidents have been leading me into believing that the most dangerous and monstrous person in all of this is the average one.

Dude, he literally admitted to asking a 14 year old to masturbate and send him pics of it, yet you keep giving him the benefit of the doubt and clinging to some conspiracy theory about people scheming to get him removed.

a 19 year old is still much closer to a fully developed adult than a 14 year old, you sound creepy rather than goofy when you imply they're practically the same age.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Dude, he literally admitted to asking a 14 year old to masturbate and send him pics of it, yet you keep giving him the benefit of the doubt and clinging to some conspiracy theory about people scheming to get him removed.

It's called waiting for clarification and evidence and not immediately taking things at face value. That's how we prevent people from being falsely accused like some of the others turned out to be. Just because he might have admitted to one thing doesn't mean the other is true as well. That's called logic.

I never said anything about conspiracies to get him removed, stop putting words in people's mouths.

a 19 year old is still much closer to a fully developed adult than a 14 year old, you sound creepy rather than goofy when you imply they're practically the same age.

I have not said anything at all like this in the post that you quoted. Do you actually read what you reply to?

 

[BallZ]

It's called waiting for clarification and evidence and not immediately taking things at face value. That's how we prevent people from being falsely accused like some of the others turned out to be. Just because he might have admitted to one thing doesn't mean the other is true as well. That's called logic.

I never said anything about conspiracies to get him removed, stop putting words in people's mouths.


I have not said anything at all like this in the post that you quoted. Do you actually read what you reply to?

The screenshots showed him continuously flirting with a girl after she told him her age, and he himself admitted to the ice cube thing, case closed.

 

[StoicPhantom]

The screenshots showed him continuously flirting with a girl after she told him her age, and he himself admitted to the ice cube thing, case closed.

I'm talking about the girl that was claiming ZeRo was wanting to fly her to an event in that post. I was clarifying what that was about for other posters since you brought it up.

 

[Hippieslayer]

ZeRo has a right to a voice, and while I outlined earlier in the thread why it is difficult for public figures to fight back against the cancel culture mobs, I can't help but feel a little disappointed that EE didn't have the stones to keep the video up.

Me too. But I guess he probably felt he was risking his career and had no other choice. I wonder if that was really case? If he would've just stood his ground what would have happened? I'm not sure. At least he tried to be a voice of reason. I'm a lot more disappointed by the fact that so far he's been the only one to do so. Cowards.

I've been sexually harassed several times when I was a teenager and minor, most of the time it was adult bi or gay men doing it. I've been groped, asked for pictures, asked for sex, had pictures sent to me, had my butt slapped and I've been forcefully kissed. All of it was creepy and some of it had me a bit upset for a day or two. when it happened. But it wasn't traumatizing. I'm an overly sensitive guy who is easily hurt. Granted in all my cases it was random people who were the perpetrators whereas with Zeros victims they knew and looked up to him and as such were probably more emotionally vulnerable and probably felt betrayed on top of used and creeped out. Still I think that it takes more than such incidents for real damage to be done. And I also think that pretty much everyone knows as much.

In any case, about EE's interview being taken down because it's hurtful to the victims. Of course that's not really the case and it's just something that fits the ongoing narrative used to exercise control, but if we assume it is true and follow that logic and apply it elsewhere then where do we end up? We end up in authoritarian state where large chunks of all media would have to be censored.

Do people not know what free speech is?

 

[Sucumbio]

I mean instead of demanding it removed they could just make their own video denouncing it or whatever. It's not as if the interview was in poor taste or mocking the victims...

 

[Ben Holt]

I've been sexually harassed several times when I was a teenager and minor, most of the time it was adult bi or gay men doing it. I've been groped, asked for pictures, asked for sex, had pictures sent to me, had my butt slapped and I've been forcefully kissed.

Damn. I've been openly pansexual since I was 14 (I'm 26.). This concept is so foreign to me.
Maybe it's because I live in an extremely Conservative area that treats homosexuality less than hospitably, but I've only ever been sexually harassed by one man, and it was on Facebook.
In High School, a couple girls poked my ass without permission, but that was it.

Were you "stereotypically attractive"? Because I don't think that amount of sexual harassment toward males is typical.
Not dismissing it; just wondering which of our experiences is more atypical.

 

[Geno Boost]

While I only saw zero videos few times before there is something I have to say I think we all know he did a mistake and cancel culture brought him down however knowing that he reached the point of attempting to ends his life is never a good option and wouldn’t fix the issue at any case.
When someone builds a huge community and then lose all of it over a mistake the good option would be having a backup plan for a different path for your future even if doesn’t need to be based on the community expectations and it’s better to have it private knowing the community is trying to threaten you.
Discussing the mistake over and over again and try to overthinking way too much could cause harm to someone’s brain so it’s better to move on instead taking a break from the social media can heal sometimes.

 

[BallZ]

While I only saw zero videos few times before there is something I have to say I think we all know he did a mistake and cancel culture brought him down however knowing that he reached the point of attempting to ends his life is never a good option and wouldn’t fix the issue at any case.
When someone builds a huge community and then lose all of it over a mistake the good option would be having a backup plan for a different path for your future even if doesn’t need to be based on the community expectations and it’s better to have it private knowing the community is trying to threaten you.
Discussing the mistake over and over again and try to overthinking way too much could cause harm to someone’s brain so it’s better to move on instead taking a break from the social media can heal sometimes.

He didn't make a mistake, he did what he did knowingly and tried to cover it up until he was backed into a corner.

 

[Geno Boost]

He didn't make a mistake, he did what he did knowingly and tried to cover it up until he was backed into a corner.

your not wrong, no one is perfect but if you were in his condition right now you probably would need to prepare a backup plan for your future in private.

 

[Doc Monocle]

He didn't make a mistake, he did what he did knowingly and tried to cover it up until he was backed into a corner.

A mistake can be made knowingly. A mistake is merely an action taken due to a lapse of judgment. If someone tries to beat the train when they see it coming, and they are hit, they did something foolish knowingly, but it was still a mistake. In Zero's case, the lapse of judgment could have been a number of things really-- the severity of defying the law no doubt being a component of such a misjudgment-- , but it resulted in an illegal exchange with someone below a legal age limit. As for lying to cover it up, refer back to the train wreck. If the person hit by the train lied to conceal that the event happened, they should have greater consequences for lying, but it does not change the status of their action from a mistake.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Damn. I've been openly pansexual since I was 14 (I'm 26.). This concept is so foreign to me.
Maybe it's because I live in an extremely Conservative area that treats homosexuality less than hospitably, but I've only ever been sexually harassed by one man, and it was on Facebook.
In High School, a couple girls poked my ass without permission, but that was it.

Were you "stereotypically attractive"? Because I don't think that amount of sexual harassment toward males is typical.
Not dismissing it; just wondering which of our experiences is more atypical.

I'm from Sweden which is very liberal and I also live in Stockholm which is a fairly large city with a subway and nightlife.

I wasn't super attractive, maybe a 6/10. Looked pretty feminine for a guy and looked like I was about 14 years old pretty much until I turned 28. I had a babyface and big blue sad puppy eyes and for a swedish guy I'm pretty small. Even though I wasn't fat I still had (and still have hehe) what is refered to as a bubble butt which I've been told can be appealing to gay men.

All these incidents happened at night and involved drunk people. When I was forcefully kissed it was by around 3 AM on a Saturday, so there weren't that many people around because most had gone home already. I was taking the subway home cause I had been at a friend's place gaming. And it was just me and this other guy who were on the train, he looked about 30 and he sat down beside me and started talking, wanted me to come with him to his place. He smelled of alcohol and cigarettes and he had this crocodile dundee looking hat and was wearing leather. Very stereotypical lol. I pushed him away when he kissed me and got off at the next stop and waited 30 min for the next train, thankful he didn't follow me off the train.

All in all I think the reason these things happened to me had more to do with me often being out alone at night in a city with an active nightlife rather than my looks.

 

[Ben Holt]

I wasn't super attractive, maybe a 6/10. Looked pretty feminine for a guy and looked like I was about 14 years old pretty much until I turned 28. I had a babyface and big blue sad puppy eyes and for a swedish guy I'm pretty small. Even though I wasn't fat I still had (and still have hehe) what is refered to as a bubble butt which I've been told can be appealing to gay men.

Yuuuuuup.
That'll do it.
Had I been around to give advice, I'd have recommended growing facial hair. That pretty much kills off any femboy aesthetic. And I say this as an active member of the homosexual community, so I'm speaking from my own experience. You pretty much filled out the checklist that every top wants, so I understand the attraction.
But harassment, stalking, forced kissing, and approaching people alone at night is absolutely unacceptable. Gay men especially should have more respect for their fellow dudes.
I'm extremely lenient with where I draw the line for "creepy", as I am myself Autistic, and I understand being completely socially inept while still having natural sexual needs, so I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but touching without explicit consent is 100% unacceptable conduct.