A Ranking of Spikes in Brawl (Update: 01-05-2009)

[CR4SH]

If it's not too much trouble could you include the foot stool spike as well? <_<

Also I didn't know that ZSS's dB could spike. How does that work? Or would you prefer that I look up that information on the ZSS board?

In any case thanks for these statistics, now if only Ganon could easily toss someone off into a quick dair =P

Theres no way to measure the footstool spike. If you can even call it a spike

 

[Adapt]

I would definitely not classify it as a spike... it just puts you into a tumble animation

ZSS Down-B: the flipjump will spike in the first couple frames of the kick

 

[zxeon]

Good work.

 

[ZeroFox]

Very very interesting, thanks!

 

[mc4]

looks pretty accurate

 

[Adapt]

I have an update:

I am now working on finding the killing percentage and knockback info on grounded spikes. I should be updating the OP tomorrow with updated tables as well as a short table for what info I have on grounded spikes. In checking my data for the grounded spikes I found a few errors with the data i collected for aerial spikes so I have to fix that up as well

Grounded spikes appear to do 20% less knockback than the aerial version of the same spike. It looks like the game designers really liked the 20% modifier (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202057)

 

[Poltergust]

I have a few questions:

-You are missing Mr. Game & Watch d-throw. Isn't that a spike? =P

-How can Charizard's b-air spike? o_O

EDIT: *cough* Ignore that first question that I put up pertaining to the multi-hitting d-airs. >.>

 

[XienZo]

Charizard's tail fire spikes.

 

[MysticKenji]

-How can Charizard's b-air spike? o_O

You have to hit with the wings only.

 

[ph00tbag]

I have an update:

I am now working on finding the killing percentage and knockback info on grounded spikes. I should be updating the OP tomorrow with updated tables as well as a short table for what info I have on grounded spikes. In checking my data for the grounded spikes I found a few errors with the data i collected for aerial spikes so I have to fix that up as well

Grounded spikes appear to do 20% less knockback than the aerial version of the same spike. It looks like the game designers really liked the 20% modifier (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202057)

I wonder if charged smashes all do exactly 20% more damage and knockback. I haven't nearly the time nor the energy to test it, but it would be interesting.

 

[Adapt]

I wonder if charged smashes all do exactly 20% more damage and knockback. I haven't nearly the time nor the energy to test it, but it would be interesting.

I don't think so, but I would have to do more testing

I forgot an assignment that I had to do, so I haven't managed to update this
I think I have some time to do it tonight.

 

[Metro Knight]

ganon dorf owns

 

[Adapt]

Ok, the list has been updated!

Added the beginnings of a list of Grounded Spikes and their knockback.

Also, Ganon's aerial Dair is more powerful than I had originally indicated. When I was doing the grounded version I noticed that it was only -7% in initial power, so I went back and redid my data for the aerial version.

 

[zrky]

it's nice to see ike and yoshi on the lists I LOVE their spikes specially ike's

 

[ph00tbag]

Ok, the list has been updated!

Added the beginnings of a list of Grounded Spikes and their knockback.

Also, Ganon's aerial Dair is more powerful than I had originally indicated. When I was doing the grounded version I noticed that it was only -7% in initial power, so I went back and redid my data for the aerial version.

Are you sure you're not just seeing the difference between the sourspot on the torso and the sweetspot at the feet?

 

[Adapt]

Are you sure you're not just seeing the difference between the sourspot on the torso and the sweetspot at the feet?

I'll recheck it again to be sure... (grounded and aerial) but I'm pretty sure that I was hitting with the 23% dair every time.

Why don't you check it as well for confirmation?

 

[Dyyne]

Oli's final smash spikes when the ship takes off lol, if you want to test it. It's pretty **** strong. Also, I have a question. I don't know if it's been figured out yet or not, but are these all meteor smashes or spikes? Or are some of them spikes and some of them meteor like in melee?

 

[streetracr77]

These are great charts. This must have taken you a long time to compile, thanks.

 

[Adapt]

np


ph00tbag: Here is the data I get for Ganon's dair

Grounded:
23% - 2238
323% - 15958

Aerial:
23% - 2811
323% - 19962

When you do the calculations you get my newest values. I can't see myself making the same mistake a couple times, but you never know.

 

[XienZo]

Oli's final smash spikes when the ship takes off lol, if you want to test it. It's pretty **** strong. Also, I have a question. I don't know if it's been figured out yet or not, but are these all meteor smashes or spikes? Or are some of them spikes and some of them meteor like in melee?

All attacks that hit straight down, not off to the side like MK's dair, are meteors and can be cancelled, (although in Brawl, you'll still fly down for a fraction of how far you'd normally go) since nearly all true "spikes" in Melee were likely a mistake in programming.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ok, so at 200%, in order for a ganon down air to spike on the ground at the same speed that it would hit airially, would the opponent have to be at 220% or 240%?

 

[Adapt]

it would be 240% damage. I can see where you would be confused though

(it will star KO at like 80 though)

 

[Joxer]

What about G&W's dash attack stage spike and marth's forward b spike (down b on the 3ed hit)?

 

[PowerBomb]

Why is ROB's Dair listed twice?

 

[Adapt]

stage spikes are not really spikes, but normal attacks that get reflected.

Marth's down-B is only a semi-spike, not a true spike. It sends you down at an extreme angle, something like -70 degrees is a rough guess at what I remember from my testing


ROB's dair has 2 separate hitboxes.
The more powerful is close to his base, and the weaker is nearer to the end of the flames

 

[Adapt]

I updated the OP

I have found a grounded spike that does not follow the 20% less knockback rule. Ike's Up-B (on the way down). I have no idea why, but it has the same knockback on a grounded Mario as an aerial Mario

I also added a bunch more grounded spikes and ranked them according to approximate star-KO percentage.

 

[YagamiLight]

I also added a bunch more grounded spikes and ranked them according to approximate star-KO percentage.

I'm not sure if you saw this last time, but the VERY tip of Ike's Eruption (Neutral B) is a true spike if it hits a grounded opponent. I hear it spikes in the air too, but I've never had it happen. Getting the grounded version is pretty simple, however.

 

[Barge]

I updated the OP

I have found a grounded spike that does not follow the 20% less knockback rule. Ike's Up-B (on the way down). I have no idea why, but it has the same knockback on a grounded Mario as an aerial Mario

I also added a bunch more grounded spikes and ranked them according to approximate star-KO percentage.

Will you be adding ice climbers grounded fair spike to the list soon?

 

[Adapt]

****... forgot about that one

I'll get it in my next update, with Luigi's and Ivy's grounded spikes. I can never hit with them reliably

 

[Ugg]

What about G&W's dash attack stage spike and marth's forward b spike (down b on the 3ed hit)?

Stage spikes are just opponents hitting the stage and getting knocked down, the actual move doesn't have downwards momentum

 

[MilleniumFalco]

poor falco dair... its so low!

 

[vbdood1337]

If it makes you feel any better, I have a lot of trouble with Luigi's dair spike as well :D

Keep up the good work!

 

[ytv]

Awesome work..Very interesting.

 

[Phantomwake]

Kirby's dair is missing?

 

[Ilucamy]

Luigi's D-tilt spikes... but it's really really weak. Kills Mario off the top of FD at like 500% or something.

I'm confident in my dair spiking with Luigi, I can do that for you if you'd like. You just need to tell me what to do. I know it will kill Mario off the top at 203% but I'm not sure about that launch speed stuff (soo much practice into that spike >.<)

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

very useful graph thanx (WOW NESS'S IS STRONG)

 

[Ref]

The initial power for Ganon's D air 1 must be wrong...

The math won't add up if that initial power is true...

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Just because G&Ws Dthrow is still not listed, I did the footwork and got you the launch force on Mario at 0% and at 300%.

Dthrow at 0%: 2731mph
Dthrow at 300%: 4433mph

 

[VietGeek]

If I recall, Ganon's Side-B spikes if it grabs someone hanging on the ledge. It would be a spike too, no? And this is the grounded version with him grabbing them off the ledge while he's onstage.

Also Marth's Side-B Third hit down spikes if you hit with the hilt. How anyone is going to test that alone is beyond me. You'd need someone to walk into Marth while Marth DBs slowly.

 

[Geist]

If I recall, Ganon's Side-B spikes if it grabs someone hanging on the ledge. It would be a spike too, no? And this is the grounded version with him grabbing them off the ledge while he's onstage.

Technically the defenition of spike was describing a move that had a hit direction that sends you downward. Ganon's is more of a grab, like bowsersides. Ganon can stomp anyways - who doesn't want to stomp?.