A Hacked Tier list...what would it be like?

[Dragoon Fighter]

If all the debug menu characters where in the tier list how would it affect it and transform it?

I imagine The male and female tier postion of the wireframes whould be negigible along with the Sandbag.

I think Crazy Hand will share the grengar tier along with Master Hand on the tier list.

I actually think Giga Bowser would be low tier but do to his size he would get eaten alive by ALL of the high to med tiers. His unique arsnel along with the his up-b, might help him deal better with some of the characters especially bottem and negible tier.

I think Solo Popo (Start of the battle as Ice Climber not Ice Climbers) might be low tier to bottem tier but he has good smashes and a good wavedash (but mewtwo also has a good wavedash so yea...that may not be a good assessment along with a recovery worse than falcos by a notible amount.)

Anyway what do you guys think? How much would it change the tier list if they where in it? Where do you think they would even be in the tier list if in it?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

giga bowser is a lot better than fox.

edit- unless ur this fox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJr8nCgm1H8#t=10m0s

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I think you where being sarcastic. Were you? I really can not tell.

Anyway Solo Popo I argue is low tier. While Giga bowser is below solo popo but I am not certain how far below I do not believe however that Giga Bowser is negligible. Now I think he more likely then not has like 100-0 match ups enemies favor vs Fox, Falco (He does not even need to short hop to lazer camp him), Shiek, Jiggly Puff, and maybe Marth (Not so sure about Marth, it is definitely in his favor but maybe not 100-0.) I can say with some certainty that Solo Popo vs Ice Climbers is 0-100. I am certain that both characters have good match ups however.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

giga bowser can win purly off of sheild camping you can't really beat it he'll basically run up to you and sheild if you run up to grab he beats you there and massively outrange you. if you attack he'll up-B.


him spaming d-tilt would be near impossible to do anything about. maybe i'm just thinking of him on very hard I don't know.

 

[TheGoat]

giga bowser can win purly off of sheild camping you can't really beat it he'll basically run up to you and sheild if you run up to grab he beats you there and massively outrange you. if you attack he'll up-B.

For some reason that was hilarious. lol. If bowser was good thats how he would ****, offensive shield camping haha.

I think wireframes would probably be top or upper tier.

 

[X1-12]

you can't grab giga bowser can you?

 

[TheGoat]

you can't grab giga bowser can you?

I believe you cannot grab him. Glad you brought that up, I completely forgot that.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yes broken sheild camping.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

@The Goat

I do not think the Wire frames would be anywhere near the top.

Let us start with the male wire frame.

He is the third clone of Captain Falcon he is nearly identical to Captain Falcon except for the following...

1) If I remember correctly Wire frames can not grab.

2) He is a lot slower, as a matter of fact the female Wire frame is faster and she is a clone of Zelda.

3) No B button moves that means NO recovery, NO falcon punch, NO raptor boost, NO falcon Kick.

For this reasons I think the male Wire frame is basically a low tier captain Falcon.

Now to examine the Female Wire frame.

1) She is a clone of Zelda WHO IS ALREADY LOW TIER TO BEGIN WITH.

2) She does not have grabs.

3) She does not have her B button moves, once again that means NO RECOVERY.

So in conclusion the Female Wire frame will probably be Negligible Tier or Worse.

The Wire Frames are the only ones which I have a good idea as to their placement along with Crazy Hand, it is mainly Solo Popo and Giga Bowser at which I do not have enough data to say with certainty in a degree that is satisfactory.

@INSANE CRAZY GUY if possible can you give me video proof, he may be anywhere from mid to bottom tier but I highly doubt him doing well against the seven deadly sinners unless I have proof.

 

[ryuu seika]

Giga's wavedash would be good...

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

how do you beat a sheild that can't be sheild stabbed and cabn't be grabbed with inv. frames from up-B to counter attack you?

 

[X1-12]

female wire frames F-air and B-air don't have those insane sweetspots like zelda's does

I think both of the frames' jumps are higher though, and fall speeds lower


They are also both really large characters

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

how do you beat a sheild that can't be sheild stabbed and cabn't be grabbed with inv. frames from up-B to counter attack you?

By attacking after the Inv. frames in and combo the turtle. Seriously, he is huge really hard to miss.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

You've never played as bowser have you?

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

You've never played as bowser have you?

Giga or regular?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

bowser. You seriously have never played as bowser. also if you had you'd know how great it is that giga bowser is like 1.6 times bigger way. seriously go play as bowser. if they dare touch your sheild up-B it's hard to deal with if they have a good way around it like lasers or ******** grab range and combos.


wait quick bowser guide

if they attack sheild up-B like 97% of the time rest let them be. predict attacks f-tilt them out. always pick YS. bowser is so perfect there in every way. watch videos of good bowsers on the stage and you'll quickly see bowser jump up a few tiers. grab/side-B combos know them. upair them if they are high. mindgames for approach like use prediction or yomi. edge gaurd f-tilt, edge attack to f-smash vs marth marth. bair to cover more range and semi spike. fair is decent.. never roll. ban stages that give them to much space to camp.

and other than mindgames that's it. better than it sounds in all truth.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

bowser. You seriously have never played as bowser. also if you had you'd know how great it is that giga bowser is like 1.6 times bigger way. seriously go play as bowser. if they dare touch your sheild up-B it's hard to deal with if they have a good way around it like lasers or ******** grab range and combos.


wait quick bowser guide

I have played a little bit of bowser back when I was a noob but I really do not like him a whole lot, so I stopped playing him.

As for giga bowser I wish I could but I do not have an AR. All my Giga Bowser knowledge comes from online research.

Edit: As per the shield it is fearsome but not invincible, try to get them to up b though mind games and then when there near done spinning attack.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

mindgame him to up-B??? you don't understand at all you just need to feel the hit stun and up-B you could win with your eyes closed for the most part.

 

[Steelia]

Ohhh, Giga Bowser's hella fun. Had many good matches with him... And, surprisingly, you'd be surprised how "balanced" he is when put up against the rest of the cast. Seriously. He fits right in. (Then again, this coming from a casual.)

When just a "normal" Giga Bowser w/o those Adventure mode stat boosts (I think the one you fight in Event 51), he's... not bad, yet he's also not very good. I've had a LOT of close matches with him in the past; his size doesn't change much at all, not even on FD. I was really surprised at how well he could punish, and likewise how easy HE was to counter. Heh. Really hope there's a way to be found to make him playable a la Master Hand... That'd be the day. C:

Oh. Still breaks the Winners screen, though. :C

 

[Doc King]

Overpowered Tier
1. Giga Bowser

Garbage Tier
2. Rest

 

[ryuu seika]

MH and CH can take Gigs any day. Surely he just can't avoid them and gets out prioritised by their moves.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

MH and CH can take Gigs any day. Surely he just can't avoid them and gets out prioritised by their moves.

it's to easy to beat master hand you really don't have any clue. take him to about any stage and MH autoloses battlefield is impossible to win on as master hand unless they can't spot dodge, sheild, or jump. stand on the top platform and only his grabs and bullets can hit you. MH might have a chance on like BS, RR, and YS everything else it's to easy to beat him. but yeah those stages are great for him.

but really master Hand fails because he has no way of control, pressure, set ups, defence, way of keeping people at bay or even edge gaured. He must use stages to do that for him. why they are all good for him. so in truth all those stages for doing the fighting for him and he has a hit box waiting for them to run into. don't walk into it and win. if you do just raack up damage with a projectile.

 

[P.C. Jona]

you can make jiggs the size of the screen

then you only have to press down b

and the game explodes

GG

 

[lordvaati]

well....Master Hand is Immortal...

unless you wanna play stamina Melee, then it becomes creepingly balanced.

also...

^that 1000%

 

[Rykard]

what version of the wire frames would be used? obviously the cruel melee ones would be too powerful but the 100 man melee ones are too weak. cause i would love to see a wire frame combo video

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

well....Master Hand is Immortal...

unless you wanna play stamina Melee, then it becomes creepingly balanced.

Um...no, have you read grimtuesdays offical master hand FAQ?

 

[stelzig]

Wireframes CAN grab. It's one of their moves that instantly KOs in cruel melee. That and female wireframe Nair is what i remember as the most common way of me dying in this mode back when i played it.

Edit: Male wireframe grabbing me at the end of this run with pichu for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ0A5mRQGi8

 

[Grim Tuesday]

*Identical to current Tier List with following Changes*
God Tier:
Giga Bowser

Low Tier:
Popo (I'm not sure on the exact placing... It's arguable...)

Bottom of Negligible Tier:
Male Wireframe
Female Wireframe

Top of Gengar Tier:
Crazy Hand

Bottom of Gengar Tier:
Sandbag

I mess around heaps with AR, I am 100% certain of this list.

Trust me on Giga, Dragoon. This guy is broken as hell. Whirling Fortress has 26 invincibility frames (and even more pseudo-invincibility frames after that). You could literally win with just Up-B and shield.

EDIT: On another note, I would totally main Sandbag.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

Dr.PeePee combo'd my Giga in debug from 0% to 300%. Giga's really not all that good. His wavedash is bad and most of his moves miss because he is so large.

Also Male Wireframe can CG a few chars from 20% ~ ??%. Haven't fooled in debug in awhile though.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Dr.PeePee combo'd my Giga in debug from 0% to 300%. Giga's really not all that good. His wavedash is bad and most of his moves miss because he is so large.

Also Male Wireframe can CG a few chars from 20% ~ ??%. Haven't fooled in debug in awhile though.

If you knew what you were doing, PP wouldn't have hit you at all.

Shield > Giga Fortress is unbeatable as far as I can tell.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

If you knew what you were doing, PP wouldn't have hit you at all.

Shield > Giga Fortress is unbeatable as far as I can tell.

He's still in animation even when he doesn't have invis. frames. so you can easily get combo'd during it if he dairs from the top and then utilts/shines you since theres just enough knockback to keep the combo up.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Wireframes CAN grab. It's one of their moves that instantly KOs in cruel melee. That and female wireframe Nair is what i remember as the most common way of me dying in this mode back when i played it.

Edit: Male wireframe grabbing me at the end of this run with pichu for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ0A5mRQGi8

I did not know that, I read they could not. I guess I was wrong.

*Identical to current Tier List with following Changes*
God Tier:
Giga Bowser

Low Tier:
Popo (I'm not sure on the exact placing... It's arguable...)

Bottom of Negligible Tier:
Male Wireframe
Female Wireframe

Top of Gengar Tier:
Crazy Hand

Bottom of Gengar Tier:
Sandbag

I mess around heaps with AR, I am 100% certain of this list.

Nice, finally a tangible list. I agree with a huge majority of it, but I do have a few points I wish to ask/cover. One, should I go to the IC boards bring some here so I can find out where in the low tier solo popo should be? I am quite curious as to EXACTLY what the list would look like. Just curious that is all. Two...

Trust me on Giga, Dragoon. This guy is broken as hell. Whirling Fortress has 26 invincibility frames (and even more pseudo-invincibility frames after that). You could literally win with just Up-B and shield.

I do not know, maybe that tactic might make him the Metaknight of melee, but without hard video evidence that proves that makes him unbeatable beyond a shadow of a doubt. I can not sallow the idea of Giga bowser being unbeatable. Top tier maybe, but unbeatable ... Even if Jesus came down in said that Giga was unbeatable, I would ask to play a smash game with him using Giga bowser to prove to me that point. I am just a bit skeptical of a tactic that results in 0-100 match ups every time. I do trust what you are saying, but my skepticism runs deep.

Also just for the lol of it I would money match Jesus. Even if I knew I would lose.

EDIT: On another note, I would totally main Sandbag.

Absolutely, that match would be really lol worthy. I bet that if you did and he was a character in the game at least one person would say to you "Stop sandbagging". Also it would be even more awesome if you WON with him.

Anyway I really enjoyed your input, thank you for helping out.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Nice, finally a tangible list. I agree with a huge majority of it, but I do have a few points I wish to ask/cover. One, should I go to the IC boards bring some here so I can find out where in the low tier solo popo should be? I am quite curious as to EXACTLY what the list would look like. Just curious that is all. Two...

The Ice Climber boards have already discussed it, they put him just below Mario iirc. This was before the new tier list, however.

I do not know, maybe that tactic might make him the Metaknight of melee, but without hard video evidence that proves that makes him unbeatable beyond a shadow of a doubt. I can not sallow the idea of Giga bowser being unbeatable. Top tier maybe, but unbeatable ... Even if Jesus came down in said that Giga was unbeatable, I would ask to play a smash game with him using Giga bowser to prove to me that point. I am just a bit skeptical of a tactic that results in 0-100 match ups every time. I do trust what you are saying, but my skepticism runs deep.

I'll try and get some video evidence later. Dolphin is being ******** at the moment and only running at 1 fps when I use any cheat...

Absolutely, that match would be really lol worthy. I bet that if you did and he was a character in the game at least one person would say to you "Stop sandbagging". Also it would be even more awesome if you WON with him.

I'm serious by the way, xD. He can't die, it's hilarious.

Anyway I really enjoyed your input, thank you for helping out.

No problem :D

He's still in animation even when he doesn't have invis. frames. so you can easily get combo'd during it if he dairs from the top and then utilts/shines you since theres just enough knockback to keep the combo up.

At any point he doesn't have invincibility frames, he has pseudo-invincibility frames because of his size. He can always fortress hog as well if he needs to escape quickly. Fire breath never runs out, I can' t remember how big it is, but that might be big enough to trap people in it to stupidly high damage. His massive weight and decent recovery would make up for how easy he is to hit.

Seriously guys, if you have an AR, play as Giga Bowser against a LV9 CPU (or a decent player if you are with one). Stay in shield and fortress/shield grab any approaches. You won't lose.

 

[Pi]

does his shield diminish? can it be poked?
what does he have to get around projectiles? fortress through them? lasers?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

does his shield diminish? can it be poked?
what does he have to get around projectiles? fortress through them? lasers?

His shield can diminish and be poked iirc.
Giga Fire Breath would stop most projectiles I'd assume. As would Giga Fortress.

 

[Cadency]

giga bowser is extremely broken because

1. his dash grab range is most of fd, seriously, he can chain grab fox with bthrow
2. can't be grabbed
3. unlimited flame breath making it impossible for most characters to recover
4. up b

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

also, just imagine his CC percents O_O

 

[Grim Tuesday]

giga bowser is extremely broken because

1. his dash grab range is most of fd, seriously, he can chain grab fox with bthrow
2. can't be grabbed
3. unlimited flame breath making it impossible for most characters to recover
4. up b

^this^

also, just imagine his CC percents O_O

^and this^

God Tier. No arguments.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

cp giga bowser to brinstar
lols will ensue
also just go falco and mulitshine him, can't do ****

 

[Grim Tuesday]

cp giga bowser to brinstar
lols will ensue
also just go falco and mulitshine him, can't do ****

IIRC, Giga Fortress comes out on frame 1. So if you screw up the multi-shine and give him just 1 FRAME to escape from it, he can, easily.

You have to actually approach Giga to do that as well, and considering Giga Fire Breath, Giga Fortress and his Grab range, that'll be a very difficult task, I imagine.

Also, if you take him to Brinstar and he loses (it's not an auto-game loss for him, mind you), he can CP you to Final Destination or something next and ****.