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A Great Evil Walks the Earth, the Ganondorf in Smash Bros. Ultimate Discussion

What's your opinion on Ganondorf's moveset?

  • Love it, it's inseparable from Dorf to me

    Votes: 25 13.5%
  • Like it, but wouldn't mind a revamp

    Votes: 56 30.3%
  • Neutral, don't care either way

    Votes: 13 7.0%
  • Don't like it, but I can live with it

    Votes: 5 2.7%
  • Hate it, and a revamp is long overdue

    Votes: 45 24.3%
  • I like it, but I would still prefer a revamp.

    Votes: 41 22.2%

  • Total voters
    185
  • Poll closed .

meleebrawler

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Huh, guess people would have good reason for wanting both Wizkick and Flamechoke to have Superarmor then. In case of the former I do distinctly remember the starting frames of the airial version having invincibility frames during the airial version, as I used it to hit people out of both Super- and normal hammer in casual matches in Brawl, but also remember it allowing me to slip through a Super sonic!!! Why Sakurai felt the need to remove this, as well as grab invincibility for flame choke, is a mystery to me...................
Can you name a single grab move in other fighting games that has armour without burning some meter or other finite resource (or is on a character that has it almost universally)?

Wizkick on the other hand is too fast now to be properly given armour. Most moves in Smash that have them are slow to start.
 

zeldasmash

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Can you name a single grab move in other fighting games that has armour without burning some meter or other finite resource (or is on a character that has it almost universally)?

Wizkick on the other hand is too fast now to be properly given armour. Most moves in Smash that have them are slow to start.
Broly in Dragon Ball FighterZ. His grounded command grabs have armor without spending meter.
 

Boartobewild

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Can you name a single grab move in other fighting games that has armour without burning some meter or other finite resource (or is on a character that has it almost universally)?

Wizkick on the other hand is too fast now to be properly given armour. Most moves in Smash that have them are slow to start.
Not sure if you watched the Mii presantation for example as the Fighter Mii now sports what seems to be a counter move which functions like a Grab/Throw.

And also have you never played Melee?!
How exactly do you explain this then?
"Grab priority" not "armor" but still LOOK AT THIS!
There so much ****/moves you could stop in Melee and Brawl simply by grabbing by about the same time, it's only since Smash4 that the rock paper scissor affair between,
Shield/counter-->Attacks--> (Command)Grabs
came into play, or was that noticable.

And while I agree that these proposed changes are not necessary (especially the way things are looking now) , they would have definititely helped Ganon a ton in Sm4sh, which was the whole reason for that Discussion in the first place! Also I wouldn't say or dismiss Flame choke and Wizkick with armor being overpowered, Bowser can shrug off attacks too with Tough guy and proceed to grab you with either normal or command grab, which do far more damage!!! As for wizkick, what about contemporary moves like raptor boost with Armor, ( Dark) Pit side b, all of lil'mac's smashes and not to forget Charizard's flare blitz?

So where exactly do you see a problem? If you wanna talk about overpowered moves how about Witch time?
 
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King9999

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Broly in Dragon Ball FighterZ. His grounded command grabs have armor without spending meter.
There's also Clark from KOF. He has one command grab that has armor on it. It's pretty good.

Tager from BB Tag has invincibility on his slingshot grab (214B).
 
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Idon

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Can you name a single grab move in other fighting games that has armour without burning some meter or other finite resource (or is on a character that has it almost universally)?

Wizkick on the other hand is too fast now to be properly given armour. Most moves in Smash that have them are slow to start.
Machamp in Pokken has a running command grab in a counter state.
 

meleebrawler

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Machamp in Pokken has a running command grab in a counter state.
Only when he uses Bulk Up first, or is bursting. I suppose it's only fair to point out Blastoise also has an armoured command grab, but again only in specific situations (buff active or bursting again).

Not sure if you watched the Mii presantation for example as the Fighter Mii now sports what seems to be a counter move which functions like a Grab/Throw.
You just said it yourself, it's a counter, not armour.


And while I agree that these proposed changes are not necessary (especially the way things are looking now) , they would have definititely helped Ganon a ton in Sm4sh, which was the whole reason for that Discussion in the first place! Also I wouldn't say or dismiss Flame choke and Wizkick with armor being overpowered, Bowser can shrug off attacks too with Tough guy and proceed to grab you with either normal or command grab, which do far more damage!!! As for wizkick, what about contemporary moves like raptor boost with Armor, ( Dark) Pit side b, all of lil'mac's smashes and not to forget Charizard's flare blitz?

So where exactly do you see a problem? If you wanna talk about overpowered moves how about Witch time?
My argument isn't necessarily about being overpowered for wizkick (since it'd obviously still be punishable), more that it wouldn't really add that much utility. In the air it already starts pretty quickly, is difficult to contest unless you have a big sword or projectile, and more often than not trades in Ganondorf's favour when they do successfully contest. Using it a lot to counter juggles, even without armour in 4 gives people pause. Armour on startup would make it a smidge better at breaking combos, but the end result would still be the same: opponents waiting it out for the punish.

I'm mainly looking at the writing on the wall that is Smash 4 customs, where almost every time a move that didn't have armour gets some, it becomes slower (it would have been a great selling point for Flame Wave) in some way, usually startup. That's how Smash devs balance armour on moves usually.

And before you bring up Ultimake DK's Headbutt, that move was just pretty useless in general.
 

Boartobewild

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Only when he uses Bulk Up first, or is bursting. I suppose it's only fair to point out Blastoise also has an armoured command grab, but again only in specific situations (buff active or bursting again).



You just said it yourself, it's a counter, not armour.




My argument isn't necessarily about being overpowered for wizkick (since it'd obviously still be punishable), more that it wouldn't really add that much utility. In the air it already starts pretty quickly, is difficult to contest unless you have a big sword or projectile, and more often than not trades in Ganondorf's favour when they do successfully contest. Using it a lot to counter juggles, even without armour in 4 gives people pause. Armour on startup would make it a smidge better at breaking combos, but the end result would still be the same: opponents waiting it out for the punish.

I'm mainly looking at the writing on the wall that is Smash 4 customs, where almost every time a move that didn't have armour gets some, it becomes slower (it would have been a great selling point for Flame Wave) in some way, usually startup. That's how Smash devs balance armour on moves usually.

And before you bring up Ultimake DK's Headbutt, that move was just pretty useless in general.
Yeah you're right with your argument about Wizkick, but I and certainley the majority of peope just can't wrap their head around a design mentality, where Ganon had some slight boons/edges over opponents, which Sakurai just took away and replaced with "buffs" that didn't compensate for those nerfs and his overall weaknesses and disadvantages as a heavy in the slightest, bc as you very accurately stated, short invincibility wouldn't have erased Ganon's core counter play of footsies/punishing his laggy attacks when he uses them at wrong time.

But that only strengthens my argument, if that is the case, why not let Ganon keep his invincibility frames and similair boons (which again would be more than justified by his canon) and at least make it possible to beat out any U-smash, -tilt or air, which would certainley go hand in hand with his designation as the strongest fighter and wielder of the Triforce of Power. In the case of Jigglypuff where buffing her back to her melee self, would pose a lot of balance issues with current game mechanics it's understandable, but Ganon has received a plethora of changes and reworks but nothing substantial in the last two games.

ONLY NOW has Sakurai realised; maybe he should give the character , who was slightly above average in the game where he was just a Falcon clone, and than absolute trash in face of the rest of the cast and game mechanics/engine in the next two installments, when he made the char "more unique, """"TRUE"""" to his original games, should after all revert to his Melee self with a few moves and properties reworked, so he does at least stand a chance in a franchise as speed/mobility focussed as Smash.
 
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meleebrawler

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Boy, Ganondorf could be terrifying in that Final Smash meter mode, his is one of the best there is.
 
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Garo

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Would be funny if Ultimate was actually balanced with Final Smash meter in mind. Forget shield break into Warlock Punch, it's all about Flame Choke into Demon King Ganon.
 

Rizen

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Would be funny if Ultimate was actually balanced with Final Smash meter in mind. Forget shield break into Warlock Punch, it's all about Flame Choke into Demon King Ganon.
Shhhhhhhhhhh, don't give Sakurai ideas.
 

Boartobewild

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Shhhhhhhhhhh, don't give Sakurai ideas.
Given that all these additonal rule sets ( I have to give Sakurai major cred for making me more excited/hyped over the stage/music rules and items section than the new comers:crazy::bluejump:) can be played without items now, how high would you predict the chance of them being incorporated into official tourneys?
( The tourney mode is a given, but stuff like all those multi battle char modes, STAMINA or CONSERVATIVE fighting game mode, as I like to dubb it, and ofc Final smash meter matches and stage morph being turned on?)

I also have to praise Sakurai, for making playing "casual", foremost with Items, look more appealing than ever ^_^.

Btw KuroganeHammer KuroganeHammer amd other major frame and Data miners prob wet themselves upon seeing the new training stage/mode XD
 

smashingDoug

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As a Zelda fan I really do hope at least Ganondorf gets his Twlight princess alt, as OOT and TP Ganondorf are the same Ganondorf
 

King9999

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Would be funny if Ultimate was actually balanced with Final Smash meter in mind. Forget shield break into Warlock Punch, it's all about Flame Choke into Demon King Ganon.
That sounds amazing.
 

Rizen

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Given that all these additonal rule sets ( I have to give Sakurai major cred for making me more excited/hyped over the stage/music rules and items section than the new comers:crazy::bluejump:) can be played without items now, how high would you predict the chance of them being incorporated into official tourneys?
( The tourney mode is a given, but stuff like all those multi battle char modes, STAMINA or CONSERVATIVE fighting game mode, as I like to dubb it, and ofc Final smash meter matches and stage morph being turned on?)
"Official tournaments" were never organized by Nintendo so I predict the standard 'items off, 2-5 stock, timer on, etc' tourneys. Ironically serious players don't use the game's tourney mode.
 

NintendoKnight

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Would be funny if Ultimate was actually balanced with Final Smash meter in mind. Forget shield break into Warlock Punch, it's all about Flame Choke into Demon King Ganon.
Fun fact: Flame Choke to Final Smash was a true combo in Brawl. It was pretty much certain death regardless of percent depending on the stage. My friend and I often did 1v1's with Smash Balls on, and we discovered that Ganondorf could actually combo into his; easily making his FS the best in the game. Untechable command grab into near-instantaneous activation of FS that hits before opponent can even dream of having an intangibility period? Sign me up please.

Sadly, as of Wii U/3DS, it is no longer true. Ganondorf cannot act out of Choke fast enough. Even worse, the opponent can tech out of the way.

Despite Ganon now being able to act out of Choke faster in Ultimate, I'm skeptical if he'd get it to connect. And since FS Meter weakens each FS, even if it did connect as a combo I don't think it'd kill unless the victim was at high percent depending on how strong Demon King is and by how much the Meter reduces its power. In short, we don't know enough yet to make a sure judgement call.

All I can say is I'd love a Choke > FS Combo again. It'd make my friends fear me in free-for-alls again.
 
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Boartobewild

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Wonder what Ganondorf's thinking about in this moment...
WHAT'S WITH YOUR STUPID EXPRESSION
MOONFACE? YOU WANNA GET SLAPED BACK TO YOUR SUN?!

Quite honestly, this reminds me of the post from
NintendoKnight NintendoKnight where he detailed how a take over by Ganon would look like. I could completely agree with the majority of it, except for one thing...Dk being stronger than Ganon, just bc he managed to punch down a tiny-ass moon (smaller than the Termina Moon, at the very least) , which was just slightly bigger than the Island it fell on, just clogged the volcano , which then propelled the moon back into place (the stratosphere btw, considering Dk managed to land on the moon without floating around in space) via eruption, so besides the physics of this moon and gravity being completely out of whack and this just being a literal comical deus ex machina moment at the finale, I struggle to take this as any sort of evidence or indicator for Dk being stronger than Ganon.

However this in combination with your post got me thinking... what would have happened if Ganon was present in Termina or the moon did the same in Hyrule? Obv he prob wouldn't want to accept being thwarted by a moon, and while he certainley could whoop Majora's ass with no issue whatsoever, for the sake of this argument, let's go with the more direct approach.

So first of, Dk has more strength than the wielder of the triforce of power, the vessel/incarnation/inheritor of Demise's essence/power which rightfully grants him the title of Demon King? Yeah, pretty doubtful, especially considering IMHO if Ganon's goal was to destroy the world, he could easily do so, but both Ganon and Demise want to rule the world and for their respective ends, they require the full triforce, so just from this premise alone, their potential for villainy acts/feats gets cut down a tremendous amount, given that they essentialy need to allow Link to obtain or reach his triforce, to make their goals even possible. In short, we haven't nearly seen the best of what Ganon can do!!! (especially considering that the master sword and light arrows limit his options even further)

If Ganon were to realize, that the moon was just about to fall he'd most likely proceed as such; First of he would transform into his biggest most powerful state, which no, isn't Oot Ganon, but hold onto that thought, I will shortly adress it later, something more along the lines of hyrule warriors or Botw Ganon, but even bigger than that, at least the size of one of the Giants of Termina. Now some of you are prob thinking; " how can you be sure that Ganon could become that giant?! Well remember Oot? The developers + Miyamoto & Aonuma had planned for Ganon to be as big as the biggest Sotc collossus, not even close to fully visible and requiring you to climb it, to reach it's weakspot, which got incorporated into the boss Megaleg from Smg instead, but could still be happening in a future installment.

To achieve this and also gain the neccassary amount of firepower to blast away the moon, he could just summon all his monsters, then absorb/recall their energy/essence ( like Shadow Asgard by Moriah in One piece) and in addition, just gain/collect more power by transforming all the negative emotions like fear, regret, frustration, depression, anger and bitter/sadness of the masses into concentrated dark magic, just like he said he was able to do in Twilight princess with the Twili/interlopers. ( Actually quite similair to the principle behind the Fierce Deity's Power, convening all the same emotions just stated from the people of Termina to become the avenger/executioner of their combined will!) Speaking of, hell he's prob even able to break or override the curse/spell cast by Majora, which wouldn't erase the problem of the moon crashing down, but he could prob use Majora's power for his own, considering that Ganon, without a doubt, outranks Majora as a demonic entity.

Once he's set, he could either unleash a huge lazor- death ray beam, like he did in his 2nd Botw raging beast form and just evaporate the moon, or if he could use hands like Hw ganon, summon his giant trident, imbue it with all of the available concentrated negative energy and just pierce, throw and launch the moon where-ever he wanted.

Ofc this is just mostly speculation on my part, but Ganon's the MAIN BAD for a good reason and Majora due to being legitimately more creepy and inherently more evil (alongside the superb feeling of de/oppression and running out of time atmosphere, due to the constant threat by the moon), gives a lot of people the impression that her/he/it is superior to Ganon, which based on their respective boss fight, naaaaaaaaaawwwww not even close.
 
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Darches

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Ofc this is just mostly speculation on my part, but Ganon's the MAIN BAD for a good reason and Majora due to being legitimately more creepy and inherently more evil (alongside the superb feeling of de/oppression and running out of time atmosphere, due to the constant threat by the moon), gives a lot of people the impression that her/he/it is superior to Ganon, which based on their respective boss fight, naaaaaaaaaawwwww not even close.
Majora's Mask is easily creepier than Ganondorf and his awesome hair. Also, I'm pretty sure destroying all life is more evil than anything Ganondorf has attempted.
 

Rizen

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One wants to rule the world, the other wants to destroy it; which is more evil, dominating or chaotic evil? Ganon has been a very successful villain with several games beginning after Ganon conquered* and destroyed Hyrule, like the NES LoZ.

*hard word to spell, it took me a bit to look that up.
 

Boartobewild

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One wants to rule the world, the other wants to destroy it; which is more evil, dominating or chaotic evil? Ganon has been a very successful villain with several games beginning after Ganon conquered* and destroyed Hyrule, like the NES LoZ.

*hard word to spell, it took me a bit to look that up.
Not to mention most villains lusting after his power and subsequently reviving/playing into his hands.

As for Ganon being more successful than Majora........ yeah while you are tecnically right, Ganon would prob just break that silly goofy mask ( at least if you pit Ganon/dorf boss phases against Majora's), which besides it's soul piercing gaze and creepy as hell "voice/noise" along with it's nihilistic disposition, only real reason for it's terror is it's effect/influence on the Moon and the other cursed provinces of Termina.

Therein lies the gripping fear and maybe even respect for Majora, though. While Ganon would most likely have had an easy time dealig with....IT, Link had to pull some major "Hero of time, chosen one by the goddess, Time overlord" business/**** to even reach and be able to deal with the mess, which Majora created.

The Game developers certainely went wild and above and beyond with their game play concepts and most importantly plot and TONE of this game,(some of which were left over from Oot) once they knew they could use the Oot setting and focus on making the most out of it, which they certainly did.
I hope they do the same with the next installement following Botw, if game developers didn't spend so much time creating everything from the ground up, be it game engine, mechanics and the bane of modern Game designers, GRAPHICS(!!!) we could have a lot more memorable and worthwhile, graceful aging/lasting games.....
 
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Rizen

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Not to mention most villains lusting after his power and subsequently reviving/playing into his hands.

As for Ganon being more successful than Majora........ yeah while you are tecnically right, Ganon would prob just break that silly goofy mask ( at least if you pit Ganon/dorf boss phases against Majora's), which besides it's soul piercing gaze and creepy as hell "voice/noise" along with it's nihilistic disposition, only real reason for it's terror is it's effect/influence on the Moon and the other cursed provinces of Termina.

Therein lies the gripping fear and maybe even respect for Majora, though. While Ganon would most likely have had an easy time dealig with....IT, Link had to pull some major "Hero of time, chosen one by the goddess, Time overlord" business/**** to even reach and be able to deal with the mess, which Majora created.

The Game developers certainely went wild and above and beyond with their game play concepts and most importantly plot and TONE of this game,(some of which were left over from Oot) once they knew they could use the Oot setting and focus on making the most out of it, which they certainly did.
I hope they do the same with the next installement following Botw, if game developers didn't spend so much time creating everything from the ground up, be it game engine, mechanics and the bane of modern Game designers, GRAPHICS(!!!) we could have a lot more memorable and worthehile lasting games.....
Yeah, Nintendo has a terrible habit of reinventing the wheel.
 

_Ganondorf_

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Yeah, Nintendo has a terrible habit of reinventing the wheel.
I wouldn't say "terrible" per say, but sometimes they strike gold and sometimes they fall on their face. Sometimes it would be best if they didn't try to reinvent the wheel but other times I'm happy they went for it. You know?
 

THE 6r

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I wouldn't say "terrible" per say, but sometimes they strike gold and sometimes they fall on their face. Sometimes it would be best if they didn't try to reinvent the wheel but other times I'm happy they went for it. You know?
.
I mean, it's how we got BoTW after all
 

DBPirate

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Nintendo just uploaded a match between Snake and K. Rool.

I find it really odd that Bowser, Bowser Jr., Ridley, Dark Samus, Meta Knight, Dark Pit, and K. Rool get their own unique “villain” victory themes but Ganondorf doesn’t get squat.
 

Boartobewild

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Nintendo just uploaded a match between Snake and K. Rool.

I find it really odd that Bowser, Bowser Jr., Ridley, Dark Samus, Meta Knight, Dark Pit, and K. Rool get their own unique “villain” victory themes but Ganondorf doesn’t get squat.
Bc he's not so much the villain of the series, as the unfortunate vessel/incarnation of demise and also a major chess board piece in the eyes of the goodesses, a notion that's the most noticiable in Wind waker, which is the only time we've seen Ganondorf (the Gerudo in this case) come back after being defeated and as such more humble and wise, to what is going on, behind the scenes, on higher plains.

Ganon is a far more complex case than any of these other "Villains", though I do find it funny that Sakurai has to take Meta Knight as a Represantative, who's more a Rival and Teacher/mentor to Kirby than anything, bc even Sakurai basically admitts that King DDD doesn't make for a evil/threatening enough antagonist XD

But yeah, I'm pretty sure Ganon's gonna receive an awesome track somewhere down the line, the game is neither finished nor released, so stay optimistic my friend ^^
 
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Boartobewild

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Actually, you ruined it, Mr. Post #667. xD
Well damn you're right ( never even noticed the post/reply counter in the upper corner before), guess I expected NintenRob NintenRob to only post this, once he knew we reached said threshold, but I guess it's impossible to both post and make a Screenshot, unless he posted the :ultganondorf:666 part alone and then edited the screenshot in later.
 

NintendoKnight

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Well damn you're right ( never even noticed the post/reply counter in the upper corner before), guess I expected NintenRob NintenRob to only post this, once he knew we reached said threshold, but I guess it's impossible to both post and make a Screenshot, unless he posted the :ultganondorf:666 part alone and then edited the screenshot in later.
He didn't edit his post. Similar to how there's a post # on the upper right, just above the user's signature on the right side it tells you whether or not they edited the post. My last post, which you quoted is indeed edited. This one I shall leave unedited to show you the difference.
 

Boartobewild

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He didn't edit his post. Similar to how there's a post # on the upper right, just above the user's signature on the right side it tells you whether or not they edited the post. My last post, which you quoted is indeed edited. This one I shall leave unedited to show you the difference.
I was very well aware of the; "last edited " prombt in the down right corner, esp. seeing as I tend to edit my own posts quite regulary (if you hadn't noticed) to satisfy my own inner grammar nazi, apparently <_<

Not gonna lie, some of your replies can sound a lot more presumptous than you prob. intend to and this unfortunately happens to be one of those. The part with me saying: "unless he posted the (Ganonface)666 part alone and then edited said screenshot in later."

Correct me if I am wrong ( my first language is german after all), but the word; unless is used at the beginning and part of a sentence to convey a conjunctive and thus meant to express uncertainty or a possibility, so anything else than a matter-of-fact opinion, RIGHT?!

I was just thinking aloud/written form, not something you were supossed to pay any mind to. I mean, I can't exactly fault you for your assumption, but sometimes reading between the lines is a useful skill to posses, wouldn't you agree?
 
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Rizen

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Correct me if I am wrong ( my first language is german after all), but the word; unless is used at the beginning and part of a sentence to convey a conjunctive and thus meant to express uncertainty or a possibility, so anything else than a matter-of-fact opinion, RIGHT?!
Sort of. "Unless" is a conditional clause meaning "except under the circumstances that" which doesn't necessarily indicate uncertainty. For example: Unless triangles are drawn on a sphere they cannot contain 3 90 degree angles.
 

NintendoKnight

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I was very well aware of the; "last edited " prombt in the down right corner, esp. seeing as I tend to edit my own posts quite regulary (if you hadn't noticed) to satisfy my own inner grammar nazi, apparently <_<

Not gonna lie, some of your replies can sound a lot more presumptous than you prob. intend to and this unfortunately happens to be one of those. The part with me saying: "unless he posted the (Ganonface)666 part alone and then edited said screenshot in later."

Correct me if I am wrong ( my first language is german after all), but the word; unless is used at the beginning and part of a sentence to convey a conjunctive and thus meant to express uncertainty or a possibility, so anything else than a matter-of-fact opinion, RIGHT?!
I grammar nazi my posts regularly, and often times more than once. My longer posts, which include the walls of text I seem to be infamous for on the Ganondorf board, are usually my most heavily edited.

Presumptuous? Dude, you literally had no idea there was a post counter just a short time ago. So when you stated "unless he posted the :ultganondorf: 666 part alone and then edited the screenshot later" it came off as you not knowing there was an on-screen indicator of an edited post in the same vein that you were unaware of a post count on the top right.

So after reading your post, I went and double checked to see if the post you mentioned was edited or not (which it wasn't). I then reached 2 possible conclusions: you either didn't know about the edited post indicator in which case I should inform you of it, or you made the remark about post editing without checking to see if he had edited his post or not. I figured it was the former, but your comment shows that that it was actually the latter.

I was just trying to be helpful with the limited knowledge and context implicated by your posts. I assumed you didn't know what it was, and that was my bad.

I was just thinking aloud/written form, not something you were supossed to pay any mind to. I mean, I can't exactly fault you for your assumption, but sometimes reading between the lines is a useful skill to posses, wouldn't you agree?
...

If it wasn't something anyone was supposed to pay attention to, why write it? If you wrote it, you wanted someone to read it. Don't tell me I wasn't supposed to read something you wrote.

And what is that last remark supposed to mean? Are you perhaps suggesting that I cannot read between lines? And you called my post presumptuous.

Sort of. "Unless" is a conditional clause meaning "except under the circumstances that" which doesn't necessarily indicate uncertainty. For example: Unless triangles are drawn on a sphere they cannot contain 3 90 degree angles.
And yes, this is how unless is properly used. He explained it better than I would've but I can provide another example of it: I can't beat that guy in Smash unless he uses a character he isn't good with.
 

Boartobewild

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I grammar nazi my posts regularly, and often times more than once. My longer posts, which include the walls of text I seem to be infamous for on the Ganondorf board, are usually my most heavily edited.

Presumptuous? Dude, you literally had no idea there was a post counter just a short time ago. So when you stated "unless he posted the :ultganondorf: 666 part alone and then edited the screenshot later" it came off as you not knowing there was an on-screen indicator of an edited post in the same vein that you were unaware of a post count on the top right.

So after reading your post, I went and double checked to see if the post you mentioned was edited or not (which it wasn't). I then reached 2 possible conclusions: you either didn't know about the edited post indicator in which case I should inform you of it, or you made the remark about post editing without checking to see if he had edited his post or not. I figured it was the former, but your comment shows that that it was actually the latter.

I was just trying to be helpful with the limited knowledge and context implicated by your posts. I assumed you didn't know what it was, and that was my bad.



...

If it wasn't something anyone was supposed to pay attention to, why write it? If you wrote it, you wanted someone to read it. Don't tell me I wasn't supposed to read something you wrote.

And what is that last remark supposed to mean? Are you perhaps suggesting that I cannot read between lines? And you called my post presumptuous.



And yes, this is how unless is properly used. He explained it better than I would've but I can provide another example of it: I can't beat that guy in Smash unless he uses a character he isn't good with.
You know what, yeah I was wrong both in calling you presumptous ( though there's a good reason for that, which I'll get to later) and the proper use of the word, unless.
Both of these are just that, grammatical errors and poor use of said words, nothing less, nothing more.

So, when I said/used unless in said sentence, what I actually meant to say is:" he could have posted :ultganondorf:999 and then edited the screenshot later!" So with that cleared up I hope you also understand, what I was refferring to, when I said it was "thinking aloud", that was me showing/expressing just how I was formulating/explaining/justifying my mostly over-creative thought process, not me stating that's what he actually DID. And don't you dare put or twist any more words in my mouth! Bc at that point you'd actually be what you thought/assumed I was calling you; arrogant, snotty, overbearing, condescending etc, etc.

So the adjective presumptuous comes from the word presume, which generally means, falls under the same meaning as the verbs assume, guess, believe, hypothesize and suppose, for a couple of examples, none of which have any negative connotation by themselves for the most part, but when you take the word presume and make it into an adjective, it's the other way around! ( I guess the English language is just that fickle of a Mistress to non-native speakers =/ )

The way I saw it ( or wrongly assumed in this case), presume was just another more suitable word for assume just sorta like this ------>pre(maturely) +(as)sume = presume. You have to forgive me on that front, that's just how a lot of german words work. ( you can basically give any verb about a 20 vastly different meanings by simply adding a preposition in front like; her, vor, an, nach,hin, zu, ab, and so on and so forth).

Basically I was just saying, that you tend to assume certain things way too quick and rashly, before giving it more thought or looking at it from another, multiple, from different angles or other person's point of view, than your own, but in this case I was guilty of the same thing. "You know what they say about assuming don't you", was prob never more applicable than in this scenario/debate.

So I hope we can stop argueing about semantics now, as most people will agree, that it is one of the most boring, fruitless reasons for quarrel/bickering.

As for the not reading between the lines deal/comment, there are a few instances, where this claim is more warranted than right here, but rest assured, I'll explain myself in another post (which I was in the middle of writing of, but then interrupted for this), but it's 3 am where I live and I have neither the energy nor will/presence of mind right now to properly formulate that one, as it's going to be much more of a pain to finish than this one.
 
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NintendoKnight

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Nin-Knight
You know what, yeah I was wrong both in calling you presumptous ( though there's a good reason for that, which I'll get to later) and the proper use of the word, unless.
Both of these are just that, grammatical errors and poor use of said words, nothing less, nothing more.
So, when I said/used unless in said sentence, what I actually meant to say is:" he could have posted :ultganondorf:999 and then edited the screenshot later!" So with that cleared up I hope you also understand, what I was refferring to, when I said it was "thinking aloud", that was me showing/expressing just how I was formulating/explaining/justifying my mostly over-creative thought process, not me stating that's what he actually DID. And don't you dare put or twist any more words in my mouth! Bc at that point you'd actually be what you thought/assumed I was calling you; arrogant, snotty, overbearing, condescending etc, etc.

So the adjective presumptuous comes from the word presume, which generally means, falls under the same meaning as the verbs assume, guess, believe, hypothesize and suppose, for a couple of examples, none of which have any negative connotation by themselves for the most part, but when you take the word presume and make it into an adjective, it's the other way around! ( I guess the English language is just that fickle of a Mistress to non-native speakers =/ )

The way I saw it ( or wrongly assumed in this case), presume was just another more suitable word for assume just sorta like this ------>pre(maturely) +(as)sume = presume. You have to forgive me on that front, that's just how a lot of german words work. ( you can basically give any verb about a 20 vastly different meanings by simply adding a preposition in front like; her, vor, an, nach,hin, zu, ab, and so on and so forth).

Basically I was just saying, that you tend to assume certain things way too quick and rashly, before giving it more thought or looking at it from another, multiple, from different angles or other person's point of view, than your own, but in this case I was guilty of the same thing. "You know what they say about assuming don't you", was prob never more applicable than in this scenario/debate.

So I hope we can stop argueing about semantics now, as most people will agree, that it is one of the most boring, fruitless reasons for quarrel/bickering.

As for the not reading between the lines deal/comment, there are a few instances, where this claim is more warranted than right here, but rest assured, I'll explain myself in another post (which I was in the middle of writing of, but then interrupted for this), but it's 3 am where I live and I have neither the energy nor will/presence of mind right now to properly formulate that one, as it's going to be much more of a pain to finish than this one.
Yeah, presumptuous typically carries with it a negative connotation. Presume, not so much as it's more neutral. Presume carries with it an idea similar to Assume but more grounded on a logic-based conclusion. At least, that's how it's typically used and understood by English speakers.

However, I would like to see your examples of my being assuming. If you're going to do so, take it to the PMs please. I'd rather not continue this conversation here because there are various things about this post I disagree with.
 

Darches

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Yeah, Nintendo has a terrible habit of reinventing the wheel.
I wouldn't say "terrible" per say, but sometimes they strike gold and sometimes they fall on their face. Sometimes it would be best if they didn't try to reinvent the wheel but other times I'm happy they went for it. You know?
I mean, it's how we got BoTW after all
I haven't played BoTW but it looks like it was inspired by Wind Waker and Skyward Sword, what with the exploration, giant weapons, and crafting. Remove the hand-holding like in Zelda 1 and BAM! New Zelda.
 

Rizen

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Messages
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Colorado
BotW does a lot of things right that SS got wrong. The story's pretty bad though. BotW is great if you like open world exploration. If you want more structured LoZ staples like getting new items in dungeons and story progression it falls a bit short.
 
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