A Compromise on MK Legality

[B!squick]

I lol'd.

Like, seriously? This topic is for reals?

....

Come on...

Really?

....

I mean, there's admitting your fighting game has a poorly balanced character... and then there's this.

 

[Ussi]

Yall are debunking the idea without any thought.

MK can't really plank because his mix ups are gone.

MK will have to work to recover

MK actually has weaknesses now



Yall act like he'll be terrible. He still has ftilt, uair, dair, nair, dtilt.. Dsmash..



If anything think of it as MK being banned BUT you can still use MK if ya still want too.

 

[tekkie]

refuse to ban mk, refuse to give serious though to any limitations, be a winner on smashboards

 

[Leisha]

I think the mk nerf is a bit pointless, would just be better off banning him all together than bothering with this.

 

[Chuee]

Honestly, now this is just getting pointless and stupid.
There's no reason to put like 10 different handicap rules on him lmao.
Just ban him if you think he needs so many handicaps.

 

[Ussi]

...

Just think of this rule as banning MK and adding a new MK-like character.



Anyways, wouldn't a (harsh) limitation add depth to the game over banning him completely? Not like you are forced to used his limited version.. But the unrestricted MK is causing problems.

 

[Alien Vision]

^ alllllll of thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Except Ussi.

omg

wombo combo!!!! Of justice!!!!!!!!

 

[GigaBowserXyZ]

...you guys can't be serious. x_X

 

[Judo777]

The saddest part is that MK would still be probably top 10 in the game. The only REALLY big nerf here is lack of SL.

But removing a characters button is kinda ridiculous. It would be almost the exact same thing as saying Akuma can't air-fireball in ST which was a fairly large part of the reason he was banned in the first place.

Like it might very well make MK fair and balanced, but it doesn't change the fact that the idea is silly.

 

[Alien Vision]

^ thisssssssssssssssssss!

They all should be presidents!

 

[Ussi]

Why is the idea silly?

Whats wrong with limiting a character to fair levels instead of outright banning him..

You can actually remove MK's ability to use specials so its not like he can accidentally do it. Its enforcable basically by control schemes.

We aren't just saying you can't do it, we're removing the command from your controller.

 

[Metakill]

lol.... take away snake grenades, diddy's bananas and falco laser.
Do you wanna a game fair?
do that... no bombs for link, no FALCON PAWNCH for Falcon.

 

[Alien Vision]

It's like telling God that he can only use his powers for display. LOL

 

[Ussi]

Implying nades and bananas break Snake and Diddy

And there is no way to remove only 1 special, only all 4

 

[Alien Vision]

Ussi. You aren't look at how pointless this is. This is a serious anti-inovation!

 

[Ussi]

I keep an open mind

 

[Tesh]

The saddest part is that MK would still be probably top 10 in the game. The only REALLY big nerf here is lack of SL.

But removing a characters button is kinda ridiculous. It would be almost the exact same thing as saying Akuma can't air-fireball in ST which was a fairly large part of the reason he was banned in the first place.

Like it might very well make MK fair and balanced, but it doesn't change the fact that the idea is silly.

I don't think you CAN do something like that in street fighter games though. Smash allows you custom controls to remove inputs if you want.

Also I don't see how this is worse than removing the character completely. I'm suggesting we remove part of the characters. This probably wouldn't even push him out of high tier. He would still be strong and players that want to play as MK can still compete.

Its not like this would be the first time a rule restricts what a player can do within the game. We tell players how long they can chaingrabs and how many times they can grab the ledge. Controls schemes actually have options in the menu.

 

[infiniteV115]

Ignore all the close-minded people in this thread who are basically saying 'LOL this is stupid' without contributing to the topic/explaining their stance.

This idea needs to be tested. If these limitations make MK not-the-best anymore, then it's not doing its job correctly.

 

[Judo777]

Well also forcing people to use a certain control scheme is kinda crazy too. There isn't a standard for control schemes. And while I know this is never a good reason to do something its on my mind. This will make smash seem all the more scrubby to other communities.

 

[Tesh]

The game has Pikachu fighting Solid Snake. I doubt the Street Fighter community will ever respect us. And even if they could, our current rules already put specific restrictions on MK.

 

[Ussi]

Is ignorance a problem? Cause what about people who say "learn the MU"?

It only sounds crazy cause we'd be the first community to do such a thing. Its not like you are forced to use a control scheme.. Its only if you want to use MK..



I mean if it comes to banning MK or leaving a lesser MK for others..

Well why not :x someone might want to use a special-less MK over not having mk.



But first MK needs to get the ban hammer

 

[John12346]

I don't think it'd make us seem scrubby to other communities, but I think said communities would probably turn their heads and wonder why we removed MK's B button rather than just banning him.

It'd just seem like such a curveball...

 

[Ussi]

It'll be weird cause its unheard of. But smash's controls are so different other fighting games that it works.

You can't ban the kick, punch, or whatever button because there are so many different combo combination inputs.

In smash, there aren't many combinations besides a A-A and A-A-A.. And Link's fsmash and MK's ftilt even then, you aren't switching buttons.

Banning MK's b button is something doable.

 

[infiniteV115]

@ Judo
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say/imply that one should not be against this idea, I was trying to say that if you ARE going against it you should at least ATTEMPT to provide a reason.

That being said, you brought up a good point. Since MK will require his own control scheme (or rather the lack of special-input on all controllers), players who main MK and second others/vice-versa will have difficulty adapting to using 2 different control schemes between sets. This is kinda like giving a disadvantage to people that play multiple characters, which makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Ussi]

I use two different schemes for Ike + Pikachu because i use tilt stick on ike


You don't play different characters the same way


Its not hard to adapt either its not like i forget my pikachu can smash with the cstick

 

[infiniteV115]

Well, that's slightly different. You CHOSE to have the controls changed for separate characters, and you CHOSE which schemes will be used for which character. And you still use c-stick and direction+A for both characters. And if you wanted to, you could always CHOOSE to change your control scheme back to the default.

In this case, players pretty much have to stop pressing the button.
And I know you don't play different characters the same way. But it's perfectly possible to play them all with 1 control scheme. Hell, in melee and 64, you HAD to do that.

Having to stop pressing a button completely could very well be harder to adapt to than your control scheme. Or, I could be completely wrong and it could be even EASIER (but I doubt it). But like I said, for this to get anywhere it'll have to be tested.

 

[Ussi]

Well, my logic with this "nerf" is that its either use MK without the B button or don't use MK at all, which still hurts players by removing a character they worked so hard on.


If MK isn't gonna be banned, then this rule really has no merit.

 

[ElDominio]

I support this lol

 

[tekkie]

seriously why isnt mk banned

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

It's ideas like this that ruin competitive smash's rep. Both to other competitive scenes and casual players coming into the scene. Try explaining to a newbie that he can use MK but he has to change his control scheme to no B. I bet they'd think what most people in this thread think. (That it's stupid if you couldn't tell.) Other competitive scenes already make fun of us for banning and setting limits for too many things. Something like this will make us look like a laughing stalk.

Even putting that aside, it's a terrible idea on it's own.

 

[Xubble]

Special attacks are a core part of Smash Bros. Every character has special attacks. Removing the special attacks from MK isn't just giving him a handicap; it's essentially eliminating half of what makes him a Smash Bros. character. In a sense, he wouldn't fit in with the rest of the cast.

Is it possible to do from the options? Yes. But take into account the fact that the game WARNS you that you don't have a button mapped out for Special. It's not intended for the game to be played in such a way. To me, removing MK's specials is essentially as game-changing as giving C. Falcon super armor frames during his Falcon Punch.

Don't remove half of what makes up the tumor. Cut it all out. Ban the bat.

 

[link2702]

what i don't understand is why the community hasn't grown a pair and just banned him already.


really, HOW many rulesets have we put in place to try to limit this character?

HOW many of them have actually been effective enough, if even at all?


when is the community gonna draw the line and just accept that it would be better to ban him outright instead of making a million different rule sets just for him alone to try and keep him in check, especially when none of them are working.

 

[Xubble]

Cause the pair of which you speak is (hopefully) starting to drop as we speak.

 

[Alien Vision]

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

refuse to ban mk, refuse to give serious though to any limitations, be a winner on smashboards

Nobody's discussing the ban on MK. This is in the context of "Well, if people are opposed to banning him altogether, consider this..."

Honestly, now this is just getting pointless and stupid.
There's no reason to put like 10 different handicap rules on him lmao.
Just ban him if you think he needs so many handicaps.

Just one handicap, and see above. Not discussing the ban.

STUFFFFFFFFFF

It's funny, you've posted soooo many times in this thread but still haven't said anything.

lol.... take away snake grenades, diddy's bananas and falco laser.
Do you wanna a game fair?
do that... no bombs for link, no FALCON PAWNCH for Falcon.

. <the point

o <your head

It's like telling God that he can only use his powers for display. LOL

How is it even remotely like that?

This will make smash seem all the more scrubby to other communities.

Face it, dude. Once you're involved in competitive smash, you lose the respect of other communities. Why let that stop you from attempting to balance a game?

players who main MK and second others/vice-versa will have difficulty adapting to using 2 different control schemes between sets

Seriously?

This is a non-issue. You're not changing what each button does, you're just removing the button form one character. Read on for elaboration:

A player is not using two different control schemes. The B-button will be re-assigned to some arbitrary control. None of the other buttons will change. The only two reasons a person will run into trouble here (besides just accidentally hitting the B-button) are:

1. They actively try to use the new assignment. (ie, assign grab to b-button, then actively use b-button to grab)

Why this is a non-issue: By actively using the now reassigned button, you are using an alternate control scheme. You can still use Z to grab, that hasnt changed. You just decided on your own that you would now rather use B to grab. If you develop an instinct to use b to grab and accidentally use aura sphere when you meant to grab while you're playing lucario, that's your own fault. This is in the same way that if a lucas main becomes accustomed to using c-stick to perform specials, its their own fault if they accidentally use a forward smash when they meant boomerang on their Toon Link secondary.

2. They try and use a special and end up performing whatever action is assigned to the control scheme

Why this is a non-issue: MK's specials are banned. It's you're fault that you got punished for throwing out a grab when you meant to shuttle loop since you tried to use a banned tactic.

 

[Alien Vision]

What are you on about? I clearly did contribute to this thread with my genuine response.

''If you strip him of these options, he really isn't ''MK'' anymore.

I suggest you to realise that we are stuck with an OP character, or be a man and ban him and pick up other mains.

/Thread''

Page 2.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

lThere isn't a rule that is placed just to limit MK. The LGL is used on every character and the banning of the IDC is the same as the banning of infinites passed 200% (stalling)

 

[Prawn]

lawl at this thread.

at least theres still new players joining the community...

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

To me, removing MK's specials is essentially as game-changing as giving C. Falcon super armor frames during his Falcon Punch.

If you couldn't tell, people are TRYING to make a game-changing change.

and casual players coming into the scene

This makes more sense to worry about than worrying about what other scenes think. Well, the same thing can be said for people who only play coin battle. What, do you tell them they have to play timed stock matches only? Well, yeah, that's just how the community plays, nobody's forcing you to join. But I agree with you, just ban him.

The LGL is used on every character

I think he's referring to specific rulesets that have different limits fr MK/non-MK

What are you on about? I clearly did contribute to this thread with my genuine response.

''If you strip him of these options, he really isn't ''MK'' anymore.

I suggest you to realise that we are stuck with an OP character, or be a man and ban him and pick up other mains.

/Thread''

Page 2.

Oh wow, you're right. It's just hard to remember that when everything you posted after that were essentially irrelevant +1s

 

[Ugg]

I think this will cause M2K to quit Brawl NOT because he'll be unable to spin around recklessly at the mash of a button, but he'll actually have to use a tag in order to enable such a control setting.

...

We MUST implement this.