A Compromise on MK Legality

[Tesh]

I dunno, how is the ref going to determine if you did ANY illegal maneuver?

CoolBro57: *Punches opponent in the face*
UmadCryBaby55: Hey not fair, I'm calling a ref! HEY MLGMASTER26 THIS GUY PUNCHED ME!!

-Nothing happens-

Honestly, thats not even the type of thing a tournament needs to deal with. Its already illegal to physically attack people. Assuming you aren't bruised or bleeding or willing to physically retaliate, you should just call the cops and let them deal with it. I'm sure "no i didn't punch him" is handled thousands of times a year in the US so I wouldn't have a TO worry about it.

If we are going to delve into things that are already illegal, we might as well add a "no terrorism" clause to the ruleset and follow it up with "don't **** people" rule. Tournament rules should only deal with what isn't already under someone's jurisdiction.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Good job attacking the example instead of the point.

Replace "punching" with "unplugging their controller", happy?

 

[Ussi]

Do we really want to be immoral here?

There is obviously a difference in morality when it comes to circle camping and unplugging someone's controller

First off, the guy who does this will most like end up being rejected from entering further tournaments if he repeatedly does this offense.

 

[ElDominio]

Good job attacking the example instead of the point.

Replace "punching" with "unplugging their controller", happy?

That's our point. Proving someone unplugged your controller is pretty hard (assuming it's plugged back in, and even so the opponent would argue you unplugged it yourself)

Tesh's rule is a lot easier to implement since a ref can just even go into the game's menu and look at the control scheme.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's our point. Proving someone unplugged your controller is pretty hard (assuming it's plugged back in, and even so the opponent would argue you unplugged it yourself)

Yet it is still banned.

@Ussi
But there is no difference in enforcibility, which is the point I am trying to make.

I have yet to hear one good argument why my Hanenbow rule wouldn't work given the standards set by our current rule-set.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Successful troll is successful.

Brb putting Grim on my ignore list

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Does that mean you'll stop replying to me so I don't have to read your dribble? Awesome.

 

[ElDominio]

Yet it is still banned.

@Ussi
But there is no difference in enforcibility, which is the point I am trying to make.

I have yet to hear one good argument why my Hanenbow rule wouldn't work given the standards set by our current rule-set.

But there is!!!, Did you even read my post??.?

Counting how many times a platform is used requires a ref to inspect the whole match

The no-b MK rule just requires a few seconds in the in-game menu!!! You don't even have to start a match!!

 

[Ussi]

There is, you can't intend to sneak a special with MK without your control scheme being exposed to be checked.

You can't check circle camping if there isn't infinite replays which requires hacking the game, which cannot be standard.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You know what, let's just start again. You guys are obviously getting confused because I'm awful at typing.

My point: If you are going to use this surgical rule to increase game depth, what is wrong with using a rule that limits the amount of times you can land on Hanenbow's top left platform? This rule is equally as enforceable as almost every other rule in our current recommended ruleset.

 

[Tesh]

Nice try Grim, how about giving an example of something in game. Its still illegal to mess with other people's property without their permission. Now obviously the cops wouldn't do anything about it because its so silly, but the point still stands.

I hear ADHD stands when he plays (i do to because I use wiichuck and there isnt always space to sit). What if I do something stupid like....pulling his pants down while he is playing (kids dont wear belts these days anyway). How is a ref going to prove that? I could easily say he pulled them down on his own and intended to violate the "don't **** people" rule as well.

In any case you are STILL attacking someone else's rule, not mine. The examples you give AND the point you are making don't compare to what I suggested. My suggested rule makes proof readily available in the event of a dispute. You want a forensic team to come in an fingerprint controllers to see who touched what.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm attacking someone else's rule under the assumption that you agree with those rules. Do you not agree that King Dedede should only be able to infinite Donkey Kong to 300% (in-game example for you)?

I have no problem with your rule, I'm just asking what makes yours so much better than mine?

 

[Ussi]

That rule is to stop stalling. Something which is agreeable on throughout the community.

Or is everyone wrong here now?

 

[FoxFireMage]

You know what, let's just start again. You guys are obviously getting confused because I'm awful at typing.

My point: If you are going to use this surgical rule to increase game depth, what is wrong with using a rule that limits the amount of times you can land on Hanenbow's top left platform? This rule is equally as enforceable as almost every other rule in our current recommended ruleset.

Cuz MK the way he is cancerous to the community, not having Hannenbow on the stage list is not

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That rule is to stop stalling. Something which is agreeable on throughout the community.

Or is everyone wrong here now?

Purpose of rule = irrelevant. I am comparing enforceability.

Cuz MK the way he is cancerous to the community, not having Hannenbow on the stage list is not

Why would we not add extra depth to the game, if given the chance?

 

[Ussi]

When comes down to it, there is no logical reason why anything is relevant. Its what we as a community want.

 

[FoxFireMage]

Why would we not add extra depth to the game, if given the chance?

We can, but first we should we should talk about how legitimately this proposal is. Then we can discuss Hanenbow, or better yet, make your own proposed rules about stages not on the list on a separate topic...

 

[Tesh]

I already stated why my rule is more enforceable than yours. You haven't listed an example thats even close to enforceable. Your version of my rule would ban using tornado consecutively (similar purpose but you can't prove it happened) or maxing out the range on drill rush or hitting people with shuttle loop.

There is no switch for circle camping. Its not the same level of enforceability.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

When comes down to it, there is no logical reason why anything is relevant. Its what we as a community want.

What.

We can, but first we should we should talk about how legitimately this proposal is. Then we can discuss Hanenbow, or better yet, make your own proposed rules about stages not on the list on a separate topic...

Ok.

I already stated why my rule is more enforceable than yours. You haven't listed an example thats even close to enforceable. Your version of my rule would ban using tornado consecutively (similar purpose but you can't prove it happened) or maxing out the range on drill rush or hitting people with shuttle loop.

There is no switch for circle camping. Its not the same level of enforceability.

Read:

I'm attacking someone else's rule under the assumption that you agree with that other person's rule. Do you not agree that King Dedede should only be able to infinite Donkey Kong to 300% (in-game example for you)?

 

[Ussi]

What you get spiked onto the platform, does that count? Or you got hit into the platform and couldn't avoid it

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yes, it does. The opponent out-played you by spiking you there. You can do the same to him.

 

[Ussi]

The game has changed from removing his stocks to making him touch the top platform X amount of times.

Even then, shouldn't it only matter if the game goes to time?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The game has changed from removing his stocks to making him touch the top platform X amount of times.

Yet gameplay has not changed in the slightest, I see no problems here.

Even then, shouldn't it only matter if the game goes to time?

Theoretically, yes.

 

[Ussi]

Anyways, let me reiterate my initial point in supporting this

MK should be banned, but has been around for 3 years. Those years of usage would all been of waste if MK is completely removed from the game.

Hanebow is already banned, and no one wants to see it again.

No one seems to be support the idea of bringing back Hanebow either, while there is some.. legitimacy in just banning MK's specials over banning MK completely.

 

[FoxFireMage]

Hasn't anyone just considered that maybe...just maybe, this Hanenbow rule is stupid? It's not fully enforceable, unlike no MK specials. No one is pushing for it, whereas a massive part of the community wants something done about MK. The list goes on

 

[Tesh]

And I already said, I don't agree with TOs having rules that overlap with the jurisdiction of a city, state or country. The conduct rules are mostly common sense and reminders of the type of good behavior you should have at any public place.

You first post in this thread has already been discussed and dismantled. You compared my suggestion to several things that aren't as enforceable.

As for landing on the top platforms on Hanenbow, the game doesn't keep a count of that so you would also need to determine what counts as landing. Do Lucas and Yoshi's double jumps exploits count? How about Sonic/Metaknight's Upsmash? These rhetorical questions are perfect examples of why your rule wouldn't be enforceable or clear.

Mine is simple, effective and clear. The only relevant argument so far is that some think it goes too far.

 

[John12346]

Shouldn't this just technically work over other rules because it works as an in-game option, like how we have jurisdiction over items, team attack, etc?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Alrighty, no worries. I submit.

Forgot it was an in-game option instead of being surgical, I definitely support this idea.

Good ****, Tesh!

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

More like you made baseless arguments and got the obvious answers and then you gave up.

 

[The Ben]

When comes down to it, there is no logical reason why anything is relevant. Its what we as a community want.

The community wanting something doesn't make that thing good. The community has made some pretty dumb decisions before because the community is inept at seeing itself objectively.

 

[Ussi]

Well doesn't mean we can't change, we gotta get the ball rolling to reach that point.

 

[FoxFireMage]

The community wanting something doesn't make that thing good. The community has made some pretty dumb decisions before because the community is inept at seeing itself objectively.

You said in your first post you don't play Smash, therefore you have no right to comment on what the Smash community should do for itself

 

[The Ben]

You said in your first post you don't play Smash, therefore you have no right to comment on what the Smash community should do for itself

I've kinda already commented on this but this is why Evo didn't want you back. Your inability to take constructive criticism combined with elitism about applying nonsensical rules to a video game preemptively makes the community look awful.

 

[Ussi]

i'm not gonna defend what previous smashers may have said about evo, but we looked at Evo as a joke, mainly because items were on.. Not to mention mainly the inbalanced items were on. (dunno if our ISP was made then though)

Granted i wouldn't be so crude about it then, but whats done is done.

anyways, i'm not attacking your points.

 

[FoxFireMage]

I could honestly care less about Evo not doing Brawl. How we as a community run our game is no other competitive games business, especially as Smash in general is a unique system in itself that has no other franchise has. Combined with the fact we have no backing from Nintendo, means we must patrol ourselves

 

[Ussi]

Having something like Evo is really good for the community though.. As was MLG.

Granted the whole nintendo not supporting us is what kills us the most. Makes it hard for to get/have Evo/MLG support

 

[Zankoku]

Based on discussion among the rest of the staff this thread will be closed.