5 years of Brawl: Are people good or bad now?

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So, thinking back on the past, I started wondering if people who have been playing for awhile are any better. I think people are still pretty bad at this game. Brawl is not that challenging of a game to pick up. I would say that within 6 months you could achieve all the level of technical skill you would ever need in the game. The rest is simply experience at decision making.

Melee on the other hand is completely different. Well, all aspects of smash are more or less the same, but between brawl and melee, being consistent at punishing will get you further than pretty much any other trait in melee. Within brawl, nearly every engagement gives you an option to get out. So, your decision making is really the only tool you have to build upon.

It seems like too many people do not focus enough on being better decision makers. Actually, I do not see a whole lot of discussion at all on how to get better on brawl.

 

[kismet2]

I agree that it boils down to decision making. What makes it difficult for some players is that they aren't able to see opportunities where they can apply good decisions. Not many players know how to apply good pressure in Brawl, where frame traps and spacing will help with that.

EDIT: I apologize for not answering your question. XD People are good now and getting better.

 

[teluoborg]

I'd say there are like 10-15 players in the world that actually know what they are doing.

Also I think that even more than decision making, Brawl relies on adaptation to the opponent. Since players have so many options during the multiple phases of the game, being able to detect player specific habits has a much more important role.

And being good at reading people is something that is hard to learn to teach and to discuss, hence why it's hardly brought up as a topic.

 

[pauloisreallyhot]

Personally, I think that I have gotten better since I first started based solely on the fact that I am older and more experienced than I was when I began.

 

[Luigimitsu]

I agree 100%, I got to a good level in around a year, yet I still feel like there aren't enough high level Brawl players and a lot of people just constantly go for attacks and don't understand the concept of - wait then punish. I've had matches with people where they are pretty much swinging at air then I just go for a simple punish, or they just keep doing the same predictable things, I think there really needs to be more guides that explain the game (not just advanced techniques and general character stuff), I've read some good ones at other forums but I didn't find them on smashboards.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I know I still suck at this.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I still think even at the so-called "top level" many players don't really understand the game as they would be expected to....
IMO

 

[SSGuy]

I think I'm someone who's decision making well exceeds my tech skills.

 

[Demna]

I disagree with you, people do get better. The metagame is changing every now and then and people do come up with various methods through time that enhances Brawl's competitive playstyle. We will never reach skill cap, we wil always have more stuff to learn.

 

[ぱみゅ]

People already KNOW a lot of things they haven't implemented into their play style, and thus, the Metagame, making it look ages away from what it should be.

 

[Cassio]

So, thinking back on the past, I started wondering if people who have been playing for awhile are any better. I think people are still pretty bad at this game. Brawl is not that challenging of a game to pick up. I would say that within 6 months you could achieve all the level of technical skill you would ever need in the game. The rest is simply experience at decision making.

This is SO not correct. Decision making is important (and even that can take quite awhile), but the biggest difference between people who are good to those who are excellent is their technical proficiency. Buffering, spacing, powershielding. If you are proficient at the game you will notice a rather large gap between a top level player vs others in their technical skill and speed, the game feels like its moving at twice as fast.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, how do you mean by technical proficiency? By how consistent they are with their tech skill?

 

[Cassio]

In the three areas I mentioned. For instance buffereing, when you land your next move should be buffered, after throws your follow ups are buffered, buffering one aerial into another, buffering moves out of shield drop, etc etc. Top level players are capable of this.

I think shaya could write you a novel on spacing and powershielding and why most peeps are pretty bad at it compared to pros.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Eh... Powershielding and buffering are very forgiving in this game. Buffering is probably one of the first things you'll end up learning to implement correctly. The whole notion of making your actions as quick as possible is easily recognized (whether or not they choose the right thing to buffer is another story). And with the huge 10 frame window only adds to how quickly I see people getting that achievement down very consistently.

Powershielding is also rather forgiving as the first 1-3 frames of putting a shield up will grant you powershields. Powershielding itself shouldn't take very long either once you start applying it to projectiles. After this, you can start applying it to other moves in particular aerials.

Unless you meant consistency in these things, I still see many people being able to get most of the tech skill they will need rather quickly, but take the longest time trying to improve on their ability to make a wise choice.

Spacing I never really considered. The game is quite dynamic and always changing and its difficult to grasp the concept of when and where you should be in match at most times.

 

[Cassio]

Tech skill is all about being able to perform what you need when you need it. The concepts themselves arent difficult to understand but thats usually true for technical aspects of a game. You can get by without technical proficiency in brawl, but youre likely to be exposed by someone who plays smart in addition to having their technical abilities on point. This sort of happened to the US at Apex 2012.

 

[Demna]

Again, people still learn (decision making) and practice tech skill against other players. If a person, as you say, has completely mastered these concepts, then that person would be considered a fluke (which is impossible).

 

[infiniteV115]

I feel like good decision making is being heavily undervalued in this thread. It's correct that Brawl is not a very technical game (though I feel 6 months is an exaggeration...depends on how hard you practice and what char you're playing, I suppose it's fairly possible with some extensive research and practice but most people don't do that) but consistently making good decisions entails a lot more than it sounds like, and is the biggest factor in anyone's success unless their tech skill is so bad to the point that they can't even execute the right moves on command at any respectable consistency.

 

[etecoon]

I think brawl is mostly innate talent. The developmental skill cap isn't high, brawl strategies and tech skill give way quickly to games simply being who reacts faster, who thinks faster, who can multitask better, who has better memory, who has sharper vision...things that are mostly inherent to you as a person, you can improve these faculties with practice but not nearly as quickly or effectively as more specific skill building. To some extent this is true of all video games and all forms of competition, but I think brawl is particularly shallow, a game that someone with exceptional raw talent can become successful in without as much time invested

I may just be salty that I was bad at this game though

 

[Demna]

I think brawl is mostly innate talent. The developmental skill cap isn't high, brawl strategies and tech skill give way quickly to games simply being who reacts faster, who thinks faster, who can multitask better, who has better memory, who has sharper vision...things that are mostly inherent to you as a person, you can improve these faculties with practice but not nearly as quickly or effectively as more specific skill building. To some extent this is true of all video games and all forms of competition, but I think brawl is particularly shallow, a game that someone with exceptional raw talent can become successful in without as much time invested

I may just be salty that I was bad at this game though

I highly contradict, knowledge beats innate talent. I was always losing to my cousin who had better reaction timing, reads, and sharper vision. After I studied the hitbox and frame data of all characters, including stage knowledge. I started devastating my cousin in every single game. He conducted the same research and he topped me after that.

And after that, we always bested each other. Increasing our knowledge, technical skills, and reads. Therefore, it's not a shallow game whatsoever, it's a great competitive game that doesn't have a specified skill cap

 

[etecoon]

I highly contradict, knowledge beats innate talent. I was always losing to my cousin who had better reaction timing, reads, and sharper vision. After I studied the hitbox and frame data of all characters, including stage knowledge. I started devastating my cousin in every single game. He conducted the same research and he topped me after that.

And after that, we always bested each other. Increasing our knowledge, technical skills, and reads. Therefore, it's not a shallow game whatsoever, it's a great competitive game that doesn't have a specified skill cap

there are a lot of variables unaccounted for in your anecdote, for instance matchups. I consistently beat 2 players from my state that were definitely more skilled than me, because is pretty ****ing good. you're also talking about the skill jump from novice to intermediate, from intermediate to mastery is a much different thing IMO. you can become a higher level intermediate just with practice and study, I think becoming great requires more

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In the three areas I mentioned. For instance buffereing, when you land your next move should be buffered, after throws your follow ups are buffered, buffering one aerial into another, buffering moves out of shield drop, etc etc. Top level players are capable of this.

I think shaya could write you a novel on spacing and powershielding and why most peeps are pretty bad at it compared to pros.

Even mid level players buffer everything, it's not hard... >_>

Power-shielding is overrated outside of projectiles. Power-shielding an attack will sometimes let you get a harder punish than you would've, or it'll let you get a punish you wouldn't have been able to otherwise, but when most punishes take the form of a grab or aerial (or an empty hop, for some characters) anyway, it doesn't make anywhere near as big a difference as people like to think.

Spacing can't even be isolated as a specific thing. You can be the best in the world at spacing (in the sense that you always hit with the best part of your attacks), but that's like having the world record for half-completing a Rubix Cube. It completely ignores that your selection of moves (which is in turn based on momentum/your opponent's mental state, what position it'll put you in afterwards, etc...) are important as well. Unless Shaya would be writing a novel about this complicated mesh of option-selection-ideas which is like... the entirety of competitive Brawl anyway, so of course pros will be better at it than noobs.

The thing that sets pros apart from noobs, imo, is everything. There isn't a single aspect of the game that they excel at, maybe in specific cases yes, but not speaking on average. On average, pro players are more consistent, more technical, more experienced and more intelligent than noobs.

Brawl all comes down to breaking the game up into specific decisions, and then choosing the best decision based on the advantages it'll give you afterwards (getting you closer to the win condition, putting you in a better spacial position, putting you in a better mental position, etc...). If you want to say that some players understand the game and others don't, you're just drawing an arbitrary line somewhere about how good they are at choosing the best option. No one 'understands' the game in the sense that they always choose the best option, and I'd say that no one is good enough to know the best option (but being unable to perform it in the heat of the moment) in every situation either.

 

[Demna]

there are a lot of variables unaccounted for in your anecdote, for instance matchups. I consistently beat 2 players from my state that were definitely more skilled than me, because is pretty ****ing good. you're also talking about the skill jump from novice to intermediate, from intermediate to mastery is a much different thing IMO. you can become a higher level intermediate just with practice and study, I think becoming great requires more

Metaknight is good, but he isn't a "free ticket to victory". We both don't take MK into account since we both don't play MK. Please define what "requires more" is? Practice and knowledge are more than enough to categorize you as a "great player".

 

[FirestormNeos]

there are a lot of variables unaccounted for in your anecdote, for instance matchups. I consistently beat 2 players from my state that were definitely more skilled than me, because is pretty ****ing good. you're also talking about the skill jump from novice to intermediate, from intermediate to mastery is a much different thing IMO. you can become a higher level intermediate just with practice and study, I think becoming great requires more

Don't sell yourself short, mai boi.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

So, thinking back on the past, I started wondering if people who have been playing for awhile are any better. I think people are still pretty bad at this game. Brawl is not that challenging of a game to pick up. I would say that within 6 months you could achieve all the level of technical skill you would ever need in the game. The rest is simply experience at decision making.

Melee on the other hand is completely different. Well, all aspects of smash are more or less the same, but between brawl and melee, being consistent at punishing will get you further than pretty much any other trait in melee. Within brawl, nearly every engagement gives you an option to get out. So, your decision making is really the only tool you have to build upon.

It seems like too many people do not focus enough on being better decision makers. Actually, I do not see a whole lot of discussion at all on how to get better on brawl.

I'm sorry, but unless you're a top player in Brawl, you have no room to even comment how much time it takes to be good, what it takes to even be good, or even compare it to a game that you're not even a top player at. It's just how it goes. The only person who is amazing at both and can comment with facts is CT Mew2King, and he doesn't care about the topic. I don't go around saying 'Man, Melee is just tech skill, no mental aspect whatsoever. If I was as fast as this guys, I'd beat them'. That's essentially what you're saying. It's just that ridiculous.

Also, in Brawl, punishing and follow ups are very hard to do due to extremely powerful defensive mechanics, super small window of frames to punish and only frame trapping or option covering can be used for follow ups. I do several -actual- frame perfect punishes in Brawl, for example in dittos, that almost no one does. Finally, escapes in Brawl aren't as easy as you make them sound. Very often in top level play you're in situations where you can't do anything, just like in Melee. So don't go around saying things you have no idea about.

Finally, I've discussed with several people about Brawl being a technical game, comparable to other fighter games with people like Justin Wong, CT Mew2King and Vex (Who knows a ridiculous amount of things about both games) and we all agree that Brawl is actually very hard to play and be technically proficient at, since there's A LOT of things that people just don't do (because they don't practice them or they're too hard to master).

Also, this constant debate of 'Melee is more technical than Brawl, and Brawl is here or there' is ridiculous, only generates a split between the community, is almost impossible to debate with facts and the result does not matter from it. So ok, after 100000000 pages of discussions, you can finally say X is better than Y because of Z. Uhm.... Who cares? People play Smash because they like it, I include myself in that. So if someone goes around saying that X thing is better because of whatever reason is just useless.

/rant

 

[TreK]

^ that must have felt so good to write

Seriously though, if you want to see if Brawl players are good, try to win our tourneys. This whole Melee vs Brawl thing is outdated, stupid, unrelevant, and it has hurt both sub-communities equally. I invite any self-respecting smasher to gang up on any cyber-bully that tries to discourage their fellow Smasher from playing the game they'll love when Smash 4 releases. I don't want to have to keep track of three sub-communities.

 

[Demna]

I actually believe that the people who consider "Melee to be more technical than Brawl" are using this reference as an excuse for their bad play in Brawl

 

[FirestormNeos]

I'm sorry, but unless you're a top player in Brawl, you have no room to even comment how much time it takes to be good, what it takes to even be good, or even compare it to a game that you're not even a top player at. It's just how it goes. The only person who is amazing at both and can comment with facts is CT Mew2King, and he doesn't care about the topic. I don't go around saying 'Man, Melee is just tech skill, no mental aspect whatsoever. If I was as fast as this guys, I'd beat them'. That's essentially what you're saying. It's just that ridiculous.

Also, in Brawl, punishing and follow ups are very hard to do due to extremely powerful defensive mechanics, super small window of frames to punish and only frame trapping or option covering can be used for follow ups. I do several -actual- frame perfect punishes in Brawl, for example in dittos, that almost no one does. Finally, escapes in Brawl aren't as easy as you make them sound. Very often in top level play you're in situations where you can't do anything, just like in Melee. So don't go around saying things you have no idea about.

Finally, I've discussed with several people about Brawl being a technical game, comparable to other fighter games with people like Justin Wong, CT Mew2King and Vex (Who knows a ridiculous amount of things about both games) and we all agree that Brawl is actually very hard to play and be technically proficient at, since there's A LOT of things that people just don't do (because they don't practice them or they're too hard to master).

Also, this constant debate of 'Melee is more technical than Brawl, and Brawl is here or there' is ridiculous, only generates a split between the community, is almost impossible to debate with facts and the result does not matter from it. So ok, after 100000000 pages of discussions, you can finally say X is better than Y because of Z. Uhm.... Who cares? People play Smash because they like it, I include myself in that. So if someone goes around saying that X thing is better because of whatever reason is just useless.

/rant

This bolded part is the only offense I take with this post.

1. If we have no room to comment on how much time/what it takes to become a great player, then we'd effectively be killing off an entire subject because so few people can offer any input on the matter.

2. A Majority of everyone here live in the US, which pretty much means that they are 'protected' by the First Amendment.

3. Sorry, by good do you mean 'decent' or 'legendary'? I don't give a damn about having a debate over this. I just want an answer.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

This bolded part is the only offense I take with this post.

1. If we have no room to comment on how much time/what it takes to become a great player, then we'd effectively be killing off an entire subject because so few people can offer any input on the matter.

2. A Majority of everyone here live in the US, which pretty much means that they are 'protected' by the First Amendment.

3. Sorry, by good do you mean 'decent' or 'legendary'? I don't give a damn about having a debate over this. I just want an answer.

1.- Yes. It's a topic based on experience. If you don't have it, then from where is your opinion coming from? From 'what you think' it is? No!

2.- One thing is speaking out your mind or giving out your opinion. The other is, which can be seen in this thread, is bashing an entire community and speaking like if you knew everything about something in which you have 0 qualifications. Do you think it's appropiated for a student to tell the teacher how things are? Unless that kid has one degree more than that teacher, he shouldn't be even touching the topic 'How things are in your area' 'How you should do things'. Same case here. If the student wanted to DISCUSS a topic, and express his opinions, and actually contribute to the topic in hand, then it's entirely fine.

3.- To the level it takes to win tournaments with top level players competing there.

 

[ぱみゅ]

dat hardcore elitism

 

[Djent]

It's not like you reach a certain point where all of a sudden your opinion starts counting. Rather, your opinion's value is proportional to your skill as a player. So it's not like only the very best people can talk about what it takes to be good at Brawl. Everyone is allowed to talk, but the opinions of bad players should be weighted less than the opinions of good ones. All else being equal, your opinion's value scales with your ability.

 

[ぱみゅ]

There are also chances of top players being wrong and lower-skilled players to be well-versed and know a lot of things and still playing bad for whatever reason.

Just chances anyway.

 

[BSP]

dat hardcore elitism

Not really, more like "don't start mouthing off about X unless you're qualified." Even then, this is one of the cases where only the elite can really give a good answer. Of course, I highly doubt there's some universal answer. I'm sure each top player reached the top differently time wise.

Agreeing with the comparisons between smash games need to stop. Unless you're a top player in the all of the games you're discussing, you aren't qualified.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This will be long and in this nice color.

I'm sorry, but unless you're a top player in Brawl, you have no room to even comment how much time it takes to be good, what it takes to even be good, or even compare it to a game that you're not even a top player at. It's just how it goes. The only person who is amazing at both and can comment with facts is CT Mew2King, and he doesn't care about the topic. I don't go around saying 'Man, Melee is just tech skill, no mental aspect whatsoever. If I was as fast as this guys, I'd beat them'. That's essentially what you're saying. It's just that ridiculous.

I want to make it clear my intention was not your last 3 sentences. That's is not what I wanted to convey at all and please do not think I believe any sort of sentiments about that line quoted made up sentence you brought up. Before I get to that... That opening post was speaking about a gap between mid range players to the upper echelon. It seems true that many mid ranged players have very little difficulty in execution of what they want to do. Its what they decide to do that seems to prevent them from moving up.

Okay, now back to your last like three sentences. Melee is not just tech skill and it does have a mental aspect. Please do not insert words into my mouth. But again, at the mid player level the ability to punish heavily off a single mistake in melee is incredibly important over other factors it seems. Besides bringing up melee was not even an important aspect of my question anyway. It was merely trying to highlight a disparity with brawl and de-emphasize knowing how to executed extremely well.

Yes, execution in brawl is very important, but I am trying to put more emphasis on decision making and knowledge seeming to be the thing I think many mid player lack rather than their dang good ability to execute well.

Well, I disagree with your first couple of sentences in this paragraph. For one, its a learning experience to discuss, learn form mistakes, and push the boundaries of what you know in the first place. As an analogy, do not dissuade a student from learning more than what they know. Invite them, guide them, and correct them where it seems wrong.

Also, in Brawl, punishing and follow ups are very hard to do due to extremely powerful defensive mechanics, super small window of frames to punish and only frame trapping or option covering can be used for follow ups. I do several -actual- frame perfect punishes in Brawl, for example in dittos, that almost no one does. Finally, escapes in Brawl aren't as easy as you make them sound. Very often in top level play you're in situations where you can't do anything, just like in Melee. So don't go around saying things you have no idea about.

Your first part of this paragraphs seems to counter the second half. First half appears to say "punishing and follows-ups are very hard". Then, you make the comment to say "escapes in brawl aren't as easy you make them sound". I am confused at this. You seem to say as the punisher its hard to punish and follow up, yet at the same time as the escapee you say its hard for them to do anything?

I suppose its situational is what you are going with? From a point of view, I still standby the general idea I had before. With melee, as soon as you make a mistake most characters can turn that mistake into a death stock. With brawl the powerful defensive mechanics (as you put it) make it easier to escape. Although, again, this brawl vs melee stuff is not even really that important to the opening post question I put forth.

Finally, I've discussed with several people about Brawl being a technical game, comparable to other fighter games with people like Justin Wong, CT Mew2King and Vex (Who knows a ridiculous amount of things about both games) and we all agree that Brawl is actually very hard to play and be technically proficient at, since there's A LOT of things that people just don't do (because they don't practice them or they're too hard to master).

I would like to hear more about this if you have the time to put forth detailed examples.

Also, this constant debate of 'Melee is more technical than Brawl, and Brawl is here or there' is ridiculous, only generates a split between the community, is almost impossible to debate with facts and the result does not matter from it. So ok, after 100000000 pages of discussions, you can finally say X is better than Y because of Z. Uhm.... Who cares? People play Smash because they like it, I include myself in that. So if someone goes around saying that X thing is better because of whatever reason is just useless.

Agreed and for the third time, the melee vs brawl split was not even that important to begin with. But it is nice to get my intentions clearly across.

^ that must have felt so good to write

Seriously though, if you want to see if Brawl players are good, try to win our tourneys. This whole Melee vs Brawl thing is outdated, stupid, unrelevant, and it has hurt both sub-communities equally. I invite any self-respecting smasher to gang up on any cyber-bully that tries to discourage their fellow Smasher from playing the game they'll love when Smash 4 releases. I don't want to have to keep track of three sub-communities.

I find it interesting that as soon as any sort of mention between melee vs brawl comes up people instantly have to jump on it and expand it into something that loses sight of the actual topic of a thread. For me, I was only using it as a tool and have really only continued with it to sort out a number of misconceptions about my view points. Yet for some reason it keeps going.

I actually believe that the people who consider "Melee to be more technical than Brawl" are using this reference as an excuse for their bad play in Brawl

I don't see the link at all between these two subjects.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Not really, more like "don't start mouthing off about X unless you're qualified." Even then, this is one of the cases where only the elite can really give a good answer. Of course, I highly doubt there's some universal answer. I'm sure each top player reached the top differently time wise.

Agreeing with the comparisons between smash games need to stop. Unless you're a top player in the all of the games you're discussing, you aren't qualified.

Oh, that part I agree with, game vs game comparisons are dumb anyway.

But the "but unless you're a top player in Brawl" part kind of rustled jimmies. Not enough to want me to discuss/debate/comment much against, though.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol But still enough to post something in here.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Even if just one, a rustled jimmy is a rustled jimmy.

Anyway, it would be nice to continue with the "are people as good as they could be in this game?" topic.

 

[etecoon]

But the "but unless you're a top player in Brawl" part kind of rustled jimmies

It should, it's a logical fallacy and it's intellectually lazy. I'm with zero on there being too much hate between the Melee and Brawl scenes, but this idea that you aren't qualified to make observations on either game if you're not a national threat? Asinine. "Melee is just tech skill there's no thought involved" is wrong because it's incorrect, not because of the status of whoever may have said it.

That being said I think Brawl's tech factor is sneaky, you can learn most techniques or sequences very quickly save for things like Diddy's naner lock that still no one is really utilizing-consistency is another issue, one missed input in an entire set can be the difference between winning and elimination, and normal people can't create that kind of consistency in 6 months, and some may never develop it just as some are klutzy with things they've been doing for decades like walking.

 

[FirestormNeos]

1.- Yes. It's a topic based on experience. If you don't have it, then from where is your opinion coming from? From 'what you think' it is? No!

Opinions can come from information brought up on the forums. It's one of the main reasons a place like SmashBoards is popular: As a database.

2.- One thing is speaking out your mind or giving out your opinion. The other is, which can be seen in this thread, is bashing an entire community and speaking like if you knew everything about something in which you have 0 qualifications.

Plenty of communities would disagree with the idea that these two are different things.

Not that I agree with them.

Do you think it's appropriate for a student to tell the teacher how things are? Unless that kid has one degree more than that teacher, he shouldn't be even touching the topic 'How things are in your area' 'How you should do things'. Same case here. If the student wanted to DISCUSS a topic, and express his opinions, and actually contribute to the topic in hand, then it's entirely fine.

So if I was concerned that my Psychology Teacher was suffering from Depression, I have no right to comfort him?

3.- To the level it takes to win tournaments with top level players competing there.

That clears up a lot of things. Thanks.

 

[Cassio]

That was the only bad part of his post, just ignore it. Zero I was able to have the same exact opinion you did from observing and talking to top level players. On top of that, if you didnt think non-top level players could understand there would be no point trying to correct the misconception you felt. Also the misconception came about from top level players in the first place who used to brag about how little they practiced (this isnt so true anymore, but it was for the first 2-3 years of brawl).

That aside I completely agree with the rest of your post, Im glad you expanded on that. The technical skill in this game is generally misunderstood and underplayed.

Your first part of this paragraphs seems to counter the second half. First half appears to say "punishing and follows-ups are very hard". Then, you make the comment to say "escapes in brawl aren't as easy you make them sound". I am confused at this. You seem to say as the punisher its hard to punish and follow up, yet at the same time as the escapee you say its hard for them to do anything?

I suppose its situational is what you are going with? From a point of view, I still standby the general idea I had before. With melee, as soon as you make a mistake most characters can turn that mistake into a death stock. With brawl the powerful defensive mechanics (as you put it) make it easier to escape. Although, again, this brawl vs melee stuff is not even really that important to the opening post question I put forth.

Escapes in brawl arent easy ONLY against the top level players who are proficient at making difficult punishes and follow ups, so it doesnt contradict itself. I say this from experience against such players, many things that are seemingly safe at mid-high level play will cause you to eat half your stock at top level play. On top of this, against most good characters achieving large punishes off mistakes is pretty critical. Characters like MK, ZSS, Marth, Falco, Pikachu, Wario, etc. can tack on massive amounts of damage, and proficient tech skill definitely extends these strings.

The thing that sets pros apart from noobs, imo, is everything.

Thats true, but it was a discussion between top level players and those a step below them. Zero more or less covered my sentiments on the subject though.

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[TSM ZeRo]

By the way, I am not elitist. You'd be surprised how much I talk this kind of topics with all sorts of people, even my mom talks to me about Smash because she actually plays it. So don't call me something I am not. I am very open minded with everyone and even accept reccomendations or critiques at my gameplay from players from all levels of skills. You'd be surprised how many times my mom has identified me playing 'bad' and she has been right 100% on the 'why's'.

Second, all I say from my point is that unless you can proove you have a mastery of a topic, then you shouldn't be saying how things are or how they should be done. Commenting about it, or saying what you think is different. I can go and tell Armada how I think Melee is played or how I think they do it. Or reccomend him a different vision. All of this is fine. But I can't go and tell him how 'things are' (Not how 'I think they are', because I don't even have the same qualifications or mastery as Armada does. See? Do I explain myself better here?

Also, I give a wrong Melee example in purpose because that's how I felt after reading your 'Decision making' part. I feel that you aren't looking at the big picture. My example is like that. I purposely said what can be understood from just watching the game, not from playing it.
Also, most top players can say that, yet when they wanted to be good they all played insane amounts of time. No exceptions. Now that they're way ahead of everyone they can slack off and just play from time to time so they don't lose their 'feel' of the game. But if they want to beat the other players and win tournaments, they have to grind it out practicing. Example: x top player can place top 10 at a national without practicing. But if he wanted to win, it'd be a different story.
Also, most top players don't comment in how much they actually play. Don't believe them so easily. I'm one of the few ones that actually say how much.