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Based on being influenced by Leo, I honestly see Ally becoming a greater threat. At least Marth does not suffer from range issues, and Leo's great record against Bayos with Marth might be a factor as well.
Ally using Marth will also result in more results for the character. With him and Leo being top Marth representatives, Marth will be in a good spot in the metagame.
Then what does that say for Mario? Do we just not put any more stock into the character and just not care?
Luigi already won a national in my mind vs MKLeo when that bair should have won the set -.-
What MUs? If anything, how the meta is turning is favouring her.
Zenyou has a really potent combo game, while Ally is better at playing neutral, and Anti gets waves of attention at times.
Sadly the closest was VoiD for dreamhack Atlanta where he came 2nd to Salem.
Maybe not a win, but VoiD got 2nd place at DreamHack Atlanta. Otherwise, regarding consistency, either VoiD or Mr. R (sometimes both) got top 16 at 13/14 S-tiers during 2017 (all except CEO). 8/14 S-tiers had at least one of the 2 in top 8.
Well I mean compared to other characters within the top tier rankings but I see what you're getting at.
Even then, players of the top 4 in the top 10:
: 1 (Salem) and a secondary (Tweek): 2 (MKLeo & Tweek), both of whom commonly use secondaries: 1 (ZeRo), excluding Nairo's rare pocket Diddy that was mostly just for Salem: 2 dedicated solo mains (VoiD & Mr. R) is easily Falcon's best top tier match up. I think Fatality has like a 20(+) to 1 lifetime record in tournament/off stream money matches against Dabuz's Rosa and as far as I know he hasn't lost to any others in tournament. Civil War was literally the first and only time that Dabuz has beaten him without switching off of her. In fact the last time they played was at King of the Springs earlier this month and it ended in a swift 3-0 by Fatality. can absolutely win a major. He doesn't have any relevant matchups that gate keep him from doing so and at top level, Pikachu is probably his only matchup worse than 45-55 (yes, that includes Ryu, Sheik, Bayonetta, and any other character rumored to body Falcon). Unless Fatality gets an unlucky draw and runs into ESAM, he has a realistic shot against anybody and he's shown he's capable of steamrolling multiple top 10 players in one go.
Why should we take you seriously? Are you just one of many Sheik naysayers?
Sheik naysayer? I just don't think she's good enough to be second best. You seem angry at me just cause I wasn't understanding what you were getting at before from our previous conversation.
Well, if it's not Cloud (assuming people are willing to change their opinion so suddenly after the top Clouds started using him significantly less), who is it? Realistically I could see Sheik taking that place.
It's hard to take you seriously along with others that complain about Bayonetta to the same capacity, and the main reason is that I don't get the sense that you dug neck deep into frame data and hitbox data, jumped in the lab and exhausted every possible strategy and tactic that your character can use against Bayonetta, but that you ran into a handful of middling no-name flowchart Bayonettas and called it quits. Especially when you make statements like "SDI is too hard" and "Bayonetta is impossible to frame trap". (by the way, you should be using SDI *all* of the time, not just vs Bayo. Lucario aura sphere, meta knight u airs, Marth dancing blade, all rapid jabs, Ryu utilts, Lucas nair, etc.)
Yeah I can see where you're coming from. Falcon is an interesting character overall in that he can beat anyone but also lose to anyone in the same capacity. He also posted a new Falcon matchup chart just days ago, with Pikachu and Game&Watch down as his worst matchups. Fatality even has Jigglypuff as a 50:50 matchup, on par with the likes of Rosalina and Diddy in terms of difficulty. And meanwhile Kirby exerts the same threat level as characters like Cloud and Bayonetta, in the 45:55 category. It's pretty inspiring to see the level of dedication a player can have toward a perceived lesser character and bring them into the spotlight singlehandedly, like what Elegant did with Luigi.
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Anyways
If anything is holding Falcon back from winning a major it's his steep learning curve. Other than maybe Pikachu, he probably has the highest skill ceiling and the most room for development among the high tiers. But because of his unforgiving disadvantaged state, Falcon is the kind of character that—if you want to be successful with him—you need to come in 100% prepared against every single match up in the game. If you don't know exactly when to pick your spots, what you need to watch out for to minimize damage taken and prevent early edge guards, and how to capitalize on any openings you get to the fullest, you will die a quick and humiliating death against players that you shouldn't be losing to.
Falcon's other issue is that his neutral can be difficult to master. He isn't going to convert a safe tilt into a huge combo or oppress you in neutral until you reach kill percent. He doesn't have that same safety net that the top tiers do. What he thrives on—his crazy punish game—is going to come from grabs, falling aerials, and dash attacks—all of which put him in close range, susceptible to getting hit and eating big punishes himself. However, what he lacks in sheer diversity and number of options, he makes up for with his ability to threaten space with his burst movement. This, in my opinion, is the #1 deciding factor of viability in this game. When you're as fast as Falcon and you combine it with quick rolls and dash dancing, at a certain range his approaches are impossible to react to. Just mixing up the timing on your approaches gives you an infinite amount of options in neutral. Because of his long dash though, mid level Falcon players don't do a very good job of exploiting this and often fall into the habit of approaching too linearly and running directly into projectiles and lingering hit boxes. Which is where the notion that he has a linear neutral comes from.
It's no surprise to me that his player base at a high level is lacking outside of Fatality. It takes an incredible amount of dedication to reach the level that Fatality has with the character. Mid and high level players typically feel like they've hit a wall playing him because of a certain match up or player, character loyalty wanes, and they end up dropping him for someone that can get similar results with considerably less effort. You guys probably remember that for almost a year, from late 2015 to fall 2016, it looked like Falcon's meta had completely stagnated and that the character was doomed to fall off a la Ness. But really, Falcon players had just hit a wall and the meta progressed without them.
It wasn't until around TBH6 that Fatality had started thinking outside the box and breaking down his walls by utilizing Bidou to master his movement and exploring some of Falcon's lesser utilized options like edge guarding with falcon dive and footstool combos. Obviously though, Civil War was his true coming out party and the first time that he showed just how good Falcon can be at his peak. Since then, he's continued to improve his neutral, work on matchups, and explore Falcon's 50/50's with knee and it has really shown these last few tournaments. His mind games and ability to condition his opponent right now are on another level. In fact he's currently projected to make 6th on the PGR if it were to come out today. In 2018, I'm looking forward to him taking that final step and continuing to show this same consistency and the ability to replicate runs like those he had at Civil War and Momocon.
I've always had the feeling that played at his best, Falcon could be as just good as the likes of Mario, Marth, and Mewtwo. I don't think that the majority will ever come around to the idea but after watching Fatality's progress over the last year, I really do think I was right on the money.
Fatality is a really solid player who has a lot of devotion and loyalty to his character. He will only continue to improve and push the falcon metagame further. When Komota beat Ally with Kirby at Frostbite, it was an upset.
So... If Ally had chosen, say, Corrin or Ryu instead, their "spot in the metagame" would've improved, then? Ally playing Marth doesn't actually change Marth at all (nor does it change Mario). The characters are still the same.
Why are you even here, on a competitive website, where we put egregious amounts of stock into a hobby we are, well, passionate about. Aren't you? Don't you want to improve? Does the journey for accomplishing this really matter? It's different for everybody .
Japanese players generally use more obscure characters (ex Shuton). Shuton puts in a lot of work with olimar and he has decent results, but some players think he is limited by olimar and that if he chose a better character he would win more.
What I'm asking is what is there for putting in so much time.
She suffocates nearly every character in the game with her frame data, but she tickles people for 2 minutes and sometimes their top players have problems closing the stock while the opponent has 120+% rage and kills sheik sub 60%
I also think that many of the Japanese players are held back by their characters. Olimar isn't that bad though (he could be top 20), and for some players it's better to pick a sub-top 15 character that fits their playstyle instead of picking a top 15 character.
Well, they're from Japan.
Indeed, which is likely one of the main factors why Japan has so many incredibly skilled players playing mid tiers. This is also likely one of the reasons why smaller regions seem to be more likely to have low and mid tier characters doing well, less financial incentive. Some players might actually gain more opportunities by playing lower tier characters (I imagine people might be more likely to spend money to fly out a Duck Hunt from Japan than some pretty good Cloud or Bayonetta player, for instance).
So could there be a conditional tier list for those who aren't playing for any sort of monetary reward?
Raito, Zeke, and T are great examples of good low-mid tier character players. T especially with his Link has so much potential, him placing 3rd at civil war (which was a very stacked tournament) is what really made the public eye aware of him. Raito, is really intellectual and has some of the best traps with duck hunt and has taken games off of top players playing superior characters.
Can I ask who (s)he is?
What tier would the rest of the cast be in? Plus, why is Link listed? On top of that, Rosalina isn't even a bad MU for Falcon.It would be helpful to dodge 0-1 characters:
It would be helpful to dodge 2-3 characters:
Characters that need to dodge Rosa:
Rosa isn't terrible for Link overall. Dabuz himself is bad for Links lol. His main avoidance should be Sheik by far. Who's Falcon's worst MU? Is it actually Rosa or is it Bayo?Characters that need to dodge Rosa:
Mind explaining this one to me? I'm pretty sure Rosalina is the least of Falcon's problems, with the core of Rosalina's advantage not being as lethal as it would need to put Falcon in the stressful situations he can be put up against characters like Bayonetta, while also doing fairly nicely in the neutral, with the ability to both chase Rosalina while Luma's gone fairly well, punishing her for poor choices in such a state, and Luma not being too hard to kill as Falcon.Characters that need to dodge Rosa:
I knew I shoulda made that a more obvious joke. The spot with Captain Falcon and Link is more that they have to dodge common threats that always have the potential to wreck their day in a best of 3.
How about Mega Man?
Here it is, my final Matchup Chart for Captain Falcon in Smash 4 (probably).
— Griffin Miller @Frosty Faustings Next (@FatalityFalcon) March 26, 2018
Non-1111 Mii Fighters on the chart assume default sizes and optimal loadouts for the MU, despite all appearances, their placings aren't lazy or an afterthought, that's legitimately how they line up, LOL. pic.twitter.com/hgg4pS14Ez
This looked pretty damning when I first saw the chart. This kinda makes Falcon look something like high-mid at best.
Minordeth
, what about Pit? Where would he be in terms of your solo viability list?