Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Iridium]

Midnight 2-1 Blacktwins to send him to the losers top 64 qualifiers.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

BestNess would probably be able to make it, if it weren't for him being DQ'ed from winners, and running into Rags of all players in losers. Still hyped to see what TGG and Gackt is going to do, considering TGG placed 17th in Smash'N'Splash 3 last year.

Uh, you seem to forget about SLAMShady, who is in losers top 64 rn. He is up against Daybreak.

 

[Iridium]

Zaki makes top 64 after beating Skillager 2-1!

 

[Lord Dio]

apparently captainzack lost to shoyo james
and mistake miloni went game 5, huh
also ally beat chag

 

[Iridium]

apparently captainzack lost to shoyo james
and mistake miloni went game 5, huh
also ally beat chag

To add on, John Numbers apparently just 3-0'd Biddy to make a top 48 placing. What a strange tourney so far.

And Wisdom 3-1 Maister to eliminate him at 49th, quite a low placing to see. He got double eliminated by . We now have 3 in top 48.

MkLeo 3-0 Captain L with Lucina AGAIN. Captain L did not look very composed at all, and he seemed desperate to get any kills, but Leo's patient playstyle clearly proved to be very good.

Zaki 3-1 Keis (?) to make top 48! Pretty impressive for a Dedede main, and this is Zaki's second consecutive time! Who does Keis main though?

Zaki 3-1 EarlofM (I think?) to place in top 32! What the heck is going on here?

Wisdom 3-0 JJRockets to avoid 33rd. Duck Hunt mains are making waves here.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Some Ness results:
Gackt lost against Ally 3-1. It said to be last hit scenario (Feel bad to Gackt since he enter a tough bracket for him)
TGG lost to Rags 3-1
SlamSHADY lost to Daybreak 3-0.

I think that is over for the Ness mains out there, highest is TGG at 25th.

Although, I saw that Mekos is still in btw...

 

[MERPIS]

BONK! 2-1 over Ally. Ally in losers early.

TGG lost to Rags 3-1

The Meta Knights are evolving

 

[Iridium]

Zaki 3-2 PowPow to now face Captain L for 17th. Yeah, this is happening.

Also, Komorikiri 3-2 Elegant with one of the most tense finishes I have ever seen.

 

[Lord Dio]

has mr r fought sdx yet? smash.gg says he hasn't......

 

[MarioManTAW]

To add on, John Numbers apparently just 3-0'd Biddy to make a top 48 placing. What a strange tourney so far.

And Wisdom 3-1 Maister to eliminate him at 49th, quite a low placing to see. He got double eliminated by . We now have 3 in top 48.

MkLeo 3-0 Captain L with Lucina AGAIN. Captain L did not look very composed at all, and he seemed desperate to get any kills, but Leo's patient playstyle clearly proved to be very good.

Zaki 3-1 Keis (?) to make top 48! Pretty impressive for a Dedede main, and this is Zaki's second consecutive time! Who does Keis main though?

Zaki 3-1 EarlofM (I think?) to place in top 32! What the heck is going on here?

Wisdom 3-0 JJRockets to avoid 33rd. Duck Hunt mains are making waves here.

Keis is a

 

[Iridium]

has mr r fought sdx yet? smash.gg says he hasn't......

I heard Mr. R is in top 8 at DBFZ, so that might be why.

Also, Ally 3-2 Captain Zack to eliminate him at 25th, and further Ally's losers' run.

Captain L 3-0 Zaki to eliminate him at 17th. For an A-tier with 527 entrants, that is an INSANE placement for a King Dedede main ever.

Dabuz 3-0 Raito , as Raito suffered from a lot a jank based kills and missed techs. Raito faces Rags next.

Mr. R 3-2 SDX . SDX was up 2-1 at one point, but Mr. R was able to adapt so much to get a double two stock (I will check that later) and stay alive in winners.

VoiD 3-0 Mistake , getting his runback and getting back to back success with Mr. R! Not sure what else to say, as this was not streamed.

Ally 3-2 Mistake to eliminate Mistake at 17th, with Mistake reaching a newer lowest placement. Ally continues his losers run.

 

[Lord Dio]

Ally's beaten both Zack and Mistake in one tournament, whoah

 

[Ordeaux26]

Ally's beaten both Zack and Mistake in one tournament, whoah

not an amazing tournament for the Bayonetta players with tweek dq'ing captainzack and mistake out at 25th and 17th the only ones left are Salem and tyroy

 

[Lord Dio]

VoiD beats dabuz, Rags beats Raito

 

[Iridium]

Rags 3-2 Raito , eliminating him at 17th. He faces off against Ally next. Now I wonder if Ally learned from his early loss.

 

[J0eyboi]

- Defensive play being optimal is the default for pretty much every fighting game. Melee is optimal when it is played defensively.

It's not so much optimal to play defensive as it is to play safe. Often times, playing defensive is the best way of playing safe, but there are exceptions. An obvious one is Guilty Gear, where properly applied offense is significantly safer than defense for basically the entire cast.

It can also be that certain characters are safer playing offense than defense. In Pokken, for example, which is generally very defensive, Weavile (and probably some other characters but I'm a weev main so I know more about him) is significantly safer playing offensively than defensively, both because his offense is really safe and because his defensive tools really aren't good and are easy to play around.

Also, defensive play is much less optimal in Melee than in Smash 4, compared to offensive play.

- Rage is a decent idea, but overly obscured and esoteric. Nintendo’s MO seems to be hiding complex systems for the appearance of accessibility, even though it puts undue burden on players who want to go deeper and understand those systems. See also: IVs and EVs in Pokémon.

And basically everything else about Pokemon (base stats, how stats are calculated, how damage is calculated, STAB, what crits do, how often crits happen, status effects, etc). And most of the systems in Smash (I love not getting actual patch notes).

- I’m fine with the ledge mechanics, because the Yomi that has developed over the course of the game’s life is rich.

I honestly far prefer Smash 4's ledge mechanics (though I don't think they're well-tuned) to Melee and Brawl's, because edgehogging makes edgeguarding unreasonably strong and not very risky.

- fwiw, I think counters are vastly underutilized in this game.

A lot of them just aren't that good. All the swordie counters save Corrin's have bad vertical hitboxes, making them easy to outspace as landing mix-ups, though this is a bigger problem for Shulk and Ike than the Marth-based counters. Peach and Palu's are slow to start up and not particularly rewarding. Greninja's is really easy to option select against because the attack is so damn slow, as is Lucario's, which has the added detriment of giving your opponent a massive punish if they don't press a button, on a character who really can't afford to be dying early.

- for that matter, so is exploring jabs and fast attacks as “traditional” counters. Venia is one of the few players who uses Greninja’s jab as a traditional counter.

Not sure what "traditional counter" means. Do you mean abare (pressing non-reversal buttons out of pressure), or something else?

 

[The_Bookworm]

Just tuned in on the tournament. The Ness players' placements in this tournament is... acceptable. I guess I got my hopes a bit too high, but I still can't get over BestNess's atrocious luck.

A Dedede finishing at 17th is definitely going to help him in the long run.

Also, Rags and Panda Bair's run are insane. Panda Bair just got 13th, which helps Villager quite a bit.

 

[Ordeaux26]

captain l lost to Mr. R to get 13th

pretty good placement from captain l especially for how stacked the tournament is

 

[|RK|]

Rags is so good, oml

Rags 3-2 Ally

 

[Iridium]

Ally was projected to place 17th, so I'm not sure how to feel about what happened to him. I really wanted him to make top 8, so I'll be crying for the next few hours, but at least Mr. R and Komorikiri are doing well.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Rags is on a rampage right now, 3-2 Ally, a very proficient Meta knight for sure.

 

[J0eyboi]

A Dedede finishing at 17th is definitely going to help him in the long run.

Not really. It's impressive as hell, but DDD still has some of the worst everything in the game. It's also worth noting that zaki's bracket wasn't exactly difficult. The only noteworthy players he ever went up against were L and Zack, and he lost to both.

Edit: Confused Zack with L. Their names are similar

 

[Ordeaux26]

if tyroy loses to elegant than Salem will be the only Bayonetta in the top 8 and even if he wins he stand almost no chance against cosmos

but this performance from Salem is not as impressive as you would think he was pretty much given a free ride to top 6 like Genesis 5 and he stands no chance against MKLeo

edit: Elegant did beat tyroy

 

[|RK|]

Rags is going to make me cry

MDVA REPRESENT

 

[Yonder]

I'm thinking MKLeo is all set to win this tournament. How I think it'll go:

1st MKLeo
2nd Salem
3rd Light
4th Dabuz
5th Void
6th Elegant
7th Shoyo James
8th Rags

Or however the placements work again. The only realistic threats to MKLeo are Salem and Dabuz. Light has been making waves too so he could be an upset. Void,Elegant, Shoyo,Rags can't really touch him.

 

[Iridium]

First thing to note is that the new layout of this site is resplendent! Good work, whoever worked on this! Well, there are a few problems, but this is mostly fine for me!

In addition, Cat has just registered for Hyrule Saga! Now we have the possible three best Links, T, Scizor and Cat most likely all going together!

 

[MERPIS]

Is it safe to say that Rags is the best post-Ito meta knight main in the world?

 

[Ordeaux26]

Is it safe to say that Rags is the best post-Ito meta knight main in the world?

what about AC

 

[MERPIS]

what about AC

I dunno man, I dunno. Rags has quite a few good wins under his belt

 

[Iridium]

Dabuz beats Shoyo James in a somewhat close set, 3-1. I wonder how Komorikiri would have done in his fourth match against him though.

Also, reminder that if VoiD beats Light and Elegant beats Rags, Light will have to deal with Elegant.

Elegant 3-0 Rags in one of the most one-sided 3-0s I have ever seen. Well, Rags had one of the unexpected runs out of any player here.

 

[Ordeaux26]

I dunno man, I dunno. Rags has quite a few good wins under his belt

but AC has better overall results like 9th at Evo Japan and 5h at switchfest

 

[Ordeaux26]

can we just take time to appreciate the variety in this top 8 every single player has a different character I'm definitely excited too see how it will go

 

[MERPIS]

Elegant 3-0 Rags in one of the most one-sided 3-0s I have ever seen. Well, Rags had one of the unexpected runs out of any player here.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Dabuz beats Shoyo James in a somewhat close set, 3-1. I wonder how Komorikiri would have done in his fourth match against him though.

Also, reminder that if VoiD beats Light and Elegant beats Rags, Light will have to deal with Elegant.

Elegant 3-0 Rags in one of the most one-sided 3-0s I have ever seen. Well, Rags had one of the unexpected runs out of any player here.

Rags was definitely playing very off, and Elegant easily took advantage of it. It didn't help of the fact that Elegant played so many MKs at his region, and Rags hasn't fought Boss in forever. He started to get some momentum in game 3, but it was too late.

Still, an impressive run to behold.

 

[Ordeaux26]

i have a trivia what do you think is the chance of Salem actually winning against MKLeo in my opinion its really low

edit: ok he might actually win

 

[Ordeaux26]

Salem just beat MKLeo 3-0 I can't believe it I thought there was no chance for him to win but I guess I was wrong

 

[Iridium]

Salem 3-0 MkLeo . He has his first win on Leo since Nairo Saga, making this the first loss to a Bayo for Leo in a while.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Salem 3-0 MkLeo . He has his first win on Leo since Nairo Saga, making this the first loss to a Bayo for Leo in a while.

I still can't believe that happened Salem might win the tournament now

 

[Ordeaux26]

VoIDjust beat Light 3-2 what a insane comeback

 

[Iridium]

VoiD 3-2 Light with one of the craziest reverse 3-0s I have ever seen. Light may not last against Elegant now. VoiD continues as he faces Salem.