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Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
No. He lost against Nairo 3-1. He did enter top 8 by defeating Locus 3-2 using his secondaries.

SDX lost against Tweek 3-1.
Unfortunate. But Komorikiri is still in winners, and that's good enough for me! He probably won't last against Nairo, though.

Edit: Another missed win. Well, he can still bring it back.
 
Last edited:

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,202
Idk man, watching L yesterday, he makes Ness's recovery look super free. L is very good at Ness & Mario MUs.
Has L faced any Ness's yesterday? Of course L needs to focus on Mario and Ness. Those two are Pika's most troublesome matchups.



I am reposting this for the third time. XD

GOML 2018 (A Tier) (446 Entrants) (Of course, going to be updated)

1st: MKLeo:4cloud2::4marth::4bayonetta2:
2nd: Nairo:4zss::4bowser:
3rd: Mistake:4bayonetta2:
4th: komorikiri:4cloud2:
5th: Lima:4bayonetta2:
5th: Dabuz:rosalina:
7th: Tweek:4cloud2::4bayonetta2:
7th: Larry Lurr:4fox::4diddy:
9th: SDX:4mewtwo:
9th: Zinoto:4diddy:
9th: Samsora:4peach::rosalina:
9th: Locus:4ryu:
13th: NAKAT:4fox::4ness:
13th: Elegant:4luigi:
13th: Glutonny:4wario:
13th: ESAM:4pikachu:
17th: WaDi:4mewtwo:
17th: Captain L:4pikachu:
17th: Strike:4sheik:
17th: MVD:4diddy:
17th: Blacktwins:4cloud2::4mario:
17th: DSS:4metaknight:
17th: ANTi:4mario:
17th: falln:rosalina:
25th: Fatality:4falcon:
25th: LetsTickle:4corrinf:
25th: Charlie:4fox::4bayonetta2::4metaknight:
25th: Blush:4falcon:
25th: Ally:4mario:
25th: THUNDER:4ryu:
25th: blanc:4wendy:
25th: Venom:4ryu:

Notable Players Out Earlier:
33rd: Z:4mewtwo:
33rd: K9sbruce:4diddy::4sheik:
33rd: Meru:4peach:
33rd: Scot!:4luigi:
33rd: Blank:4sheik:
33rd: Glare:4bayonetta2:
33rd: Deathorse:4mewtwo::4wario2:
33rd: Smokk:4diddy:
33rd: V115:4zss:
49th: SuperGirlKels:4sonic:
49th: Big D:4mario::4falcon:
49th: Poke:4luigi:
49th: Alphicans:4wiremac:
65th: Kiraflax:4pit::4darkpit:
65th: Firefly:4yoshi:
65th: VoiD:4sheik: (DQ'ed)
257th: Angel Cortez:4diddy: (DQ'ed)
257th: Cosmos:4corrinf: (DQ'ed)
257th: Mr. R:4sheik: (DQ'ed)
257th: pu55yk1ng:4littlemac: (DQ'ed)


GOML 2018 Doubles (119 Entrants)
1st: Elegant:4luigi:SuperGirlKels:4sonic:
2nd: MKLeo:4cloud2:Mistake:4bayonetta2:
3rd: Samsora:4peach:ANTi:4mario:
4th: ESAM:4pikachu:MVD:4cloud::4diddy:
5th: VoiD:4sheik:NAKAT:4ness:
5th: Glutonny:4wario:Meru:4peach:
7th: Smokk:4diddy::4cloud:Venom:4ryu:
7th: Fatality:4falcon:WaDi:4mewtwo:
9th: Glare:4bayonetta2:Blacktwins:4cloud2:
9th: Vapor:4bayonetta::4corrin:Asprey:4cloud2::4dk:
9th: Tweek:4cloud2::4bayonetta2:Nairo:4lucina:
9th: Strike:4sheik:Dunkmaster Ragna:4ryu:
13th: K9sbruce:4sheik:KiraFlax:4pit:
13th: Lima:4bayonetta2:Akashi:4cloud:
13th: THUNDER:4ryu:Chris Fisch:4diddy:
13th: Firefly:4yoshi: Big D:4mario:


Battle Arena Melbourne 10 (C Tier) (187 Entrants)
1st: Extra:4gaw:
2nd: Ghost:4bayonetta:
3rd: Tru4:4shulk:
4th: Sriks:4luigi:
5th: Nature Boy:4fox::4dk::4megaman:
5th: Linoone:4bayonetta:
7th: Big Snug:4ryu:
7th: Duon:4fox:
9th: Luco:4lucas::4ness:
9th: Jdizzle:4tlink:
9th: DefectiveDagger
9th: Ignis:4robinf:
 
Last edited:

MarioManTAW

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
843
Has L faced any Ness's yesterday? Of course L needs to focus on Mario and Ness. Those two are Pika's most troublesome matchups.



I am reposting this for the third time. XD

GOML 2018 (A Tier) (446 Entrants) (Of course, going to be updated)

1st:
2nd:
3rd:
4th:
5th:
5th:
7th:
7th:
9th: SDX:4mewtwo:
9th: Zinoto:4diddy:
9th: Samsora:4peach::rosalina:
9th: Locus:4ryu:
13th: NAKAT:4fox::4ness:
13th: Elegant:4luigi:
13th: Glutonny:4wario:
13th: ESAM:4pikachu:
17th: WaDi:4mewtwo:
17th: Captain L:4pikachu:
17th: Strike:4sheik:
17th: MVD:4diddy:
17th: Blacktwins:4cloud2::4mario:
17th: DSS:4metaknight:
17th: ANTi:4mario:
17th: falln:rosalina:
25th: Fatality:4falcon:
25th: LetsTickle:4corrinf:
25th: Charlie:4fox::4bayonetta2::4metaknight:
25th: Blush:4falcon:
25th: Ally:4mario:
25th: THUNDER:4ryu:
25th: blanc:4wendy:
25th: Venom:4ryu:

Notable Players Out Earlier:
33rd: Z:4mewtwo:
33rd: K9sbruce:4diddy::4sheik:
33rd: Meru:4peach:
33rd: Scot!:4luigi:
33rd: Blank:4sheik:
33rd: Glare:4bayonetta2:
33rd: Deathorse:4mewtwo::4wario2:
33rd: Smokk:4diddy:
33rd: V115:4zss:
49th: SuperGirlKels:4sonic:
49th: Big D:4mario::4falcon:
49th: Poke:4luigi:
49th: Alphicans:4wiremac:
65th: Kiraflax:4pit::4darkpit:
65th: Firefly:4yoshi:
65th: VoiD:4sheik: (DQ'ed)
257th: Angel Cortez:4diddy: (DQ'ed)
257th: Cosmos:4corrinf: (DQ'ed)
257th: Mr. R:4sheik: (DQ'ed)
257th: pu55yk1ng:4littlemac: (DQ'ed)


GOML 2018 Doubles (119 Entrants)
1st: Elegant:4luigi:SuperGirlKels:4sonic:
2nd: MKLeo:4cloud2:Mistake:4bayonetta2:
3rd: Samsora:4peach:ANTi:4mario:
4th: ESAM:4pikachu:MVD:4cloud::4diddy:
5th: VoiD:4sheik:NAKAT:4ness:
5th: Glutonny:4wario:Meru:4peach:
7th: Smokk:4diddy::4cloud:Venom:4ryu:
7th: Fatality:4falcon:WaDi:4mewtwo:
9th: Glare:4bayonetta2:Blacktwins:4cloud2:
9th: Vapor:4bayonetta::4corrin:Asprey:4cloud2::4dk:
9th: Tweek:4cloud2::4bayonetta2:Nairo:4lucina:
9th: Strike:4sheik:Dunkmaster Ragna:4ryu:
13th: K9sbruce:4sheik:KiraFlax:4pit:
13th: Lima:4bayonetta2:Akashi:4cloud:
13th: THUNDER:4ryu:Chris Fisch:4diddy:
13th: Firefly:4yoshi: Big D:4mario:


Battle Arena Melbourne 10 (C Tier) (187 Entrants)
1st: Extra:4gaw:
2nd: Ghost:4bayonetta:
3rd: Tru4:4shulk:
4th: Sriks:4luigi:
5th: Nature Boy:4fox::4dk::4megaman:
5th: Linoone:4bayonetta:
7th: Big Snug:4ryu:
7th: Duon:4fox:
9th: Luco
9th: Jdizzle:4tlink:
9th: DefectiveDagger
9th: Ignis
IIRC Luco is a :4lucas::4ness: and Ignis is a :4robinf:
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
NOOOOOOOOO! Larry, not like this! Well, it was a good run. His Diddy Kong is pretty good, and it shows his ability to play many characters well.

Dabuz :rosalina: 3-1 Tweek :4cloud2::4bayonetta2: to end his run at 7th.

Mistake :4bayonetta2::4peach: 3-0 Lima :4bayonetta2: with one hype finish, with Mistake getting the Peach Parasol to work despite Witch Time being active to kill around 40%.

Hey Lord Dio Lord Dio , Komorikiri :4cloud2:just beat Dabuz :rosalina: 3-1 again to double eliminate him!
 
Last edited:

Rran

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
145
The ending to that Cloud/ Bowser match was incredible
 
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Yonder

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Was there Bowser gameplay? Did it go well for Nairo? I stopped watching but I love Bowser play.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
Well, now I feel really bad for Komorikiri with the way he went out. Getting 4th place is nothing to be ashamed of though.

And then Nairo immediately 3-0s Mistake in quick fashion. His rivalry with MkLeo continues.
 
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Ordeaux26

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Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
309
Location
British Columbia
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Ordeaux
I just want to point out mistake's record for this year

Genesis 5 2nd
Frostbite 2018 3rd
EGLX 2018 4th
Battle For Vegas 3rd
Mason Versus Mr. E 1st
Glitch 4 4th
Denti's Bizarre Adventure 8 2nd
Get On My Level 2018 3rd

Mistake is an extremely consistent player
 

Rran

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
145
Yeah, the Bowser/ Bayo match was significantly less impressive, but that Cloud match was entertaining as hell. Seeing the streaks of electricity burst from Cloud's sword striking the Koopa King--everyone thinking the match was over by that point--and Nairo soldiering on to seal the victory was a joy to see.


EDIT: also their first matchup (Cloud/ ZSS) was shockingly brief--any casual observer would've just figured Nairo was taking on some newbie lol. But I'll be damned if Leo didn't make some impressive adjustments with his approach in the following match :0
 
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The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,202
It's over. A victory on Cloud vs Bowser with a two-stock, and Leo won the tournament.
 
Last edited:

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,904
Location
Colorado
Has L faced any Ness's yesterday? Of course L needs to focus on Mario and Ness. Those two are Pika's most troublesome matchups.



I am reposting this for the third time. XD

GOML 2018 (A Tier) (446 Entrants) (Of course, going to be updated)

1st: MKLeo:4cloud2::4marth::4bayonetta2:
2nd: Nairo:4zss::4bowser:
3rd: Mistake:4bayonetta2:
4th: komorikiri:4cloud2:
5th: Lima:4bayonetta2:
5th: Dabuz:rosalina:
7th: Tweek:4cloud2::4bayonetta2:
7th: Larry Lurr:4fox::4diddy:
9th: SDX:4mewtwo:
9th: Zinoto:4diddy:
9th: Samsora:4peach::rosalina:
9th: Locus:4ryu:
13th: NAKAT:4fox::4ness:
13th: Elegant:4luigi:
13th: Glutonny:4wario:
13th: ESAM:4pikachu:
17th: WaDi:4mewtwo:
17th: Captain L:4pikachu:
17th: Strike:4sheik:
17th: MVD:4diddy:
17th: Blacktwins:4cloud2::4mario:
17th: DSS:4metaknight:
17th: ANTi:4mario:
17th: falln:rosalina:
25th: Fatality:4falcon:
25th: LetsTickle:4corrinf:
25th: Charlie:4fox::4bayonetta2::4metaknight:
25th: Blush:4falcon:
25th: Ally:4mario:
25th: THUNDER:4ryu:
25th: blanc:4wendy:
25th: Venom:4ryu:

Notable Players Out Earlier:
33rd: Z:4mewtwo:
33rd: K9sbruce:4diddy::4sheik:
33rd: Meru:4peach:
33rd: Scot!:4luigi:
33rd: Blank:4sheik:
33rd: Glare:4bayonetta2:
33rd: Deathorse:4mewtwo::4wario2:
33rd: Smokk:4diddy:
33rd: V115:4zss:
49th: SuperGirlKels:4sonic:
49th: Big D:4mario::4falcon:
49th: Poke:4luigi:
49th: Alphicans:4wiremac:
65th: Kiraflax:4pit::4darkpit:
65th: Firefly:4yoshi:
65th: VoiD:4sheik: (DQ'ed)
257th: Angel Cortez:4diddy: (DQ'ed)
257th: Cosmos:4corrinf: (DQ'ed)
257th: Mr. R:4sheik: (DQ'ed)
257th: pu55yk1ng:4littlemac: (DQ'ed)


GOML 2018 Doubles (119 Entrants)
1st: Elegant:4luigi:SuperGirlKels:4sonic:
2nd: MKLeo:4cloud2:Mistake:4bayonetta2:
3rd: Samsora:4peach:ANTi:4mario:
4th: ESAM:4pikachu:MVD:4cloud::4diddy:
5th: VoiD:4sheik:NAKAT:4ness:
5th: Glutonny:4wario:Meru:4peach:
7th: Smokk:4diddy::4cloud:Venom:4ryu:
7th: Fatality:4falcon:WaDi:4mewtwo:
9th: Glare:4bayonetta2:Blacktwins:4cloud2:
9th: Vapor:4bayonetta::4corrin:Asprey:4cloud2::4dk:
9th: Tweek:4cloud2::4bayonetta2:Nairo:4lucina:
9th: Strike:4sheik:Dunkmaster Ragna:4ryu:
13th: K9sbruce:4sheik:KiraFlax:4pit:
13th: Lima:4bayonetta2:Akashi:4cloud:
13th: THUNDER:4ryu:Chris Fisch:4diddy:
13th: Firefly:4yoshi: Big D:4mario:


Battle Arena Melbourne 10 (C Tier) (187 Entrants)
1st: Extra:4gaw:
2nd: Ghost:4bayonetta:
3rd: Tru4:4shulk:
4th: Sriks:4luigi:
5th: Nature Boy:4fox::4dk::4megaman:
5th: Linoone:4bayonetta:
7th: Big Snug:4ryu:
7th: Duon:4fox:
9th: Luco:4lucas::4ness:
9th: Jdizzle:4tlink:
9th: DefectiveDagger
9th: Ignis:4robinf:
The youtube vids are already out:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe5nQdhHqwUWEWKa3m8zBlMPww8cHiGjQ

Sheik got a raw deal this tournament due to DQs. At this point I think Leo is the best followed by Nairo and Tweek.
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,202
Something we should talk about is Lima's insane loser's run.

In winner's, he beat Ally, only to fall to MKLeo.
In loser's, he lost to Mistake and got 5th overall. However, he bested ANTi, Elegant, Samsora, and Larry Lurr on the way there.
 

Thinkaman

Moderator
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NAKAT beat Captain L with Lucas, in addition to Ness and Fox.

16 winning characters in top 16? And no Sheik, Mario, or Sonic--pretty wild event. Great doubles matches to watch too!

Edit: I could have sworn Larry had a win as DK against someone too? I know I saw some DK this weekend.

Edit2: Oh, that was Tweak against SDX, game 1. Larry did have a Marth win against Locus though, great game to watch. Mistake also apparently won a game as Peach against Lima when I wasn't looking??? Dang.
 
Last edited:

Prince Koopa Jr

Smash Journeyman
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United States/Florida
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Switch FC
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Something we should talk about is Lima's insane loser's run.

In winner's, he beat Ally, only to fall to MKLeo.
In loser's, he lost to Mistake and got 5th overall. However, he bested ANTi, Elegant, Samsora, and Larry Lurr on the way there.
Coming all the way back from losers like that is not easy, props to mistake.
 

Ordeaux26

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
309
Location
British Columbia
NNID
Ordeaux
Coming all the way back from losers like that is not easy, props to mistake.
I already pointed this out but mistake has an extremely consistent record this year

Genesis 5 2nd
Frostbite 2018 3rd
EGLX 2018 4th
Battle For Vegas 3rd
Mason Versus Mr. E 1st
Glitch 4 4th
Denti's Bizarre Adventure 8 2nd
Get On My Level 2018 3rd
 

Ordeaux26

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
309
Location
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NNID
Ordeaux
I just had a thought what tournaments do you guys think are super majors so far if any

Genesis 5 probably
Frostbite 2018 maybe
 

PK Bash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
196
NAKAT's Ness needs some warm up tho because this is an advantage MU. BestNess 3-0 Captain L and the only reason BestNess lose to Captain L is Jigg inexperience because Jigg is such a rare character. What is your anaylsis of how NAKAT's Ness could've done better?

(I know that L is pretty good at Ness/Mario MU but I just wanna know what he couldve done better?)
NAKAT fundamentally played the matchup fine (focus on centre and play the walling game from centre, keeping Pikachu back and then spacing dash attack when Pika is cornered to eventually win neutral, etc). The problem he had was that Captain L was also playing the matchup properly (proper shield pressure that can give Ness jip, playing an ultimately conservative game and whiff punishing Ness' stuff rather than running into it, punishing/pressuring Ness as he falls from a SH because that is where he is most vulnerable (and Pikachu is very well built to take advantage of this specific vulnerability with good judgement), etc etc). L ultimately was playing the way he had to but was also able to stay a few steps ahead of NAKAT throughout the game. This does not mean that NAKAT was playing the matchup poorly. NAKAT had all the right ideas. Captain L was simply a few steps ahead of him at nearly every turn.

Yes on paper Ness wins this matchup but frankly, Ness and Pikachu players alike overstate exactly how extreme Ness' advantage is. In reality Pikachu is actually remarkably well built to deal with some of Ness' more fundamental weaknesses:
-In neutral, Ness is vulnerable when falling out of a shorthop, his falling aerials are not forgiving and are very easy to mis-space, especially against a tiny and quick Pikachu, and he is also vulnerable if he overuses forward air because he's then can't do anything until he lands - Cpt L was clearly aware of these shortcomings. Suddenly FAir's disjoint isn't that scary to Pikachu any more.
-RK touched on this on page 128: Pikachu is one of the best characters at gimping Ness straight up, he can cover any low recovery Ness tries to make with absolutely zero risk to himself. Yes it requires practice that most Pikachu players are not going to bother with if we're being brutally honest, but look at how NAKAT was recovering in the Cpt L game - he was avoiding going low because he didn't want a repeat of this game - notice how simple it is for Pikachu to gimp Ness recovering low, risk-free. And this is just an example of what Tjolt alone can do, Thunder + tjolt + aerials cover Ness' low recoveries far too well.
-Pikachu more than has the mobility to screw with the Ness player's head when Ness is trying to maintain centre (so important that Ness holds centre due to the above point), particularly with platforms. And we've already covered why Ness is vulnerable if he is not careful with his aerials. 'Course, Ness needs to get to centre in the first place.
-touched on it above but Pikachu has some good shield pressure on Ness with dtilt, AC FAir and AC DAir, you can see some examples of this in the Cpt L game.
-[bonus: contrary to common belief absorbing tjolt isn't necessarily always a good idea cos Ness then has to jump (and then fall) or roll and put himself closer to the ledge. Definitely a useable tool regardless of what Pikachus tell you, though I'm not going to say they're missing a trick or anything, it won't reinvent the mu haha.]

So yeah Jon, Ness does win the matchup but Pikachu has got some stuff. NAKAT can still be playing the matchup fine, as I hope I've indicated, yet still lose to Captain L. Pikachu has the tools. Ness has arguably better tools when you consider how they interact with each other and relative risk/reward in a vacuum, but in an actual game he still guesses wrong now and then, still leaves openings, and Pikachu is well built to abuse said openings if given the chance (which obviously will happen), so Pikachu winning doesn't automatically mean Ness is playing the matchup wrong. Don't get too hung up on what character "wins" or "loses" a matchup or the records of other top or high level players in the mu - neither is a hugely reliable indicator of how individual games or sets are gonna go.
 

Ordeaux26

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Prince Koopa Jr

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These were all pretty tense sets, truly some of the best in Smash 4 history in my opinion.
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,202
Got some big news. MomoCon, due to it's increased attendance and PGR players, is now an A tier event. While not quite as stacked as GOML, it should be a high action event.

MomoCon 2018 (A tier) (244 Attendees) (a.k.a. 2GG Rare Character Saga)

PGR Players
Salem:4bayonetta:
Nairo:4zss:
Tweek:4cloud2::4bayonetta2:
Dabuz:rosalina:
Larry Lurr:4fox:
VoiD:4sheik:
Mr. R:4sheik:
Mistake:4bayonetta2:
komorikiri:4cloud2::4sonic:
Cosmos:4corrinf:
Captain Zack:4bayonetta2:
ANTi:4mario::4zss::4cloud2:
Samsora:4peach:
Manny:4sonic:
Mr. E:4lucina::4marth:
Raito:4duckhunt:
NAKAT:4fox::4ness:
Fatality:4falcon:
dyr:4diddy:
falln:rosalina:

Notable Players
Blank:4sheik:
ScAtt:4megaman:
Wrath:4sonic:
Sinji:4pacman:
Koolaid:4sheik:
Peabnut:4megaman:
Mekos:4lucas:
Salt One:4cloud2:
Hyper Kirby:4feroy:
NovaPixl:4lucas::4ness::rosalina:
Zaki:4dedede:

Bonus
Ninkendo (again lol)


However, they also added two new events that are coming the weekend after MomoCon: the C tier Dreamhack Austin 2018 and the A tier Smash'N'Splash 4.


Dreamhack Austin 2018 (C tier) (170 Attendees)

PGR Players
Larry Lurr:4fox:
ANTi:4mario::4zss::4cloud2:
ESAM:4pikachu:
Samsora:4peach:
MVD:4diddy:
Konga:4dk:
falln:rosalina:
Zenyou:4mario:

Notable Players
Eon:4fox:
Karna:4sheik:
SaSSy:4rob:
Dakpo:4zss::4luigi:


Smash'N'Splash 4 (A tier) (527 Attendees) (a.k.a. 2GG Top Ness Invasion Saga)

PGR Players
Salem:4bayonetta:
Nairo:4zss:
Tweek:4cloud2::4bayonetta2:
Dabuz:rosalina:
VoiD:4sheik:
Mr. R:4sheik:
Elegant:4luigi:
Mistake:4bayonetta2:
Ally:4mario:
komorikiri:4cloud2::4sonic:
Cosmos:4corrinf:
Captain Zack:4bayonetta2:
Darkshad:4ryu:
Raito:4duckhunt:
Tyroy:4bayonetta:
Shoyo James:4diddy::4luigi:
Light:4fox:

Notable Players
Ned:4cloud2:
Ralphie:4cloud2:
SDX:4mewtwo:
Captain L:4pikachu:
TGG:4ness:
Blacktwins:4cloud2::4mario:
Rags:4metaknight:
BestNess:4ness:
Biddy:4tlink:
Gackt:4ness:
Ryo:4myfriends:
Chag:4bayonetta2:
Panda Bair:4villager:
John Numbers:4wiifit:
Scot!:4luigi:
NameLess:4diddy:
Vivid (Justy) :4bayonetta::substitute:
yeti:4megaman::4tlink::substitute:
pu55yk1ng:4littlemac:
Ozone:4duckhunt:
Maister:4gaw:
Mekos:4lucas:
ATATA:4ness:
8BitMan:4rob::4diddy:
Skillager:4villager:
Zaki:4dedede:
Wonderbread:4littlemac:
Cagt:4littlemac:
JJRockets:4diddy:


Definitely exciting events to look out.
 
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Ordeaux26

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These were all pretty tense sets, truly some of the best in Smash 4 history in my opinion.
I agree this is the best showdown for mkleo and nairo this year the new ally and zero of this year could be the best sets this year so far
I hope Salem get a chance to redeem himself but it is very unlikely with mkleo nairo tweek dabuz and mistake being there
 
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Ordeaux26

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I just had a crazy thought you probably know about the former 5 gods of melee

Armada:peachmelee::foxmelee:
Hungybox:jigglypuffmelee:
Mango:falcomelee::foxmelee:
Mew2King:marthmelee::sheikmelee:
PPMD:falcomelee:

how that was determined was these 5 players were the only ones that could win an event with 2 or more of the gods in attendance I think we might be experiencing the era of the 5 gods in smash 4 the 5 gods are
MKLeo:4marth::4cloud2:
Nairo:4zss::4bowser:
Dabuz:rosalina::4olimar:
Tweek:4bayonetta2::4cloud2:
Mistake:4bayonetta2:

there the only ones that have been winning the tournaments with 2 of these players in attendance are leagues above the 6th best Fatality Cloudhead and OrionRank agree with me on this

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iGovSC6JqzIwVvPkfGZ7Dwo_TvozGGLzbhk_Z7TTq1A/edit#gid=0
https://intheloop837.wordpress.com/2018/05/15/orionrank-mid-spring-2018-15-1/

so yeah I think everyone can agree that ZeRo's retirement has created a new era for smash 4 but it might be the New Era Of The 5 Gods
 
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The_Bookworm

Smash Master
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Messages
3,202
I just had a crazy thought you probably know about the former 5 gods of melee

Armada:peachmelee::foxmelee:
Hungybox:jigglypuffmelee:
Mango:falcomelee::foxmelee:
Mew2King:marthmelee::sheikmelee:
PPMD:falcomelee:

how that was determined was these 5 players were the only ones that could win an event with 2 or more of the gods in attendance I think we might be experiencing the era of the 5 gods in smash 4 the 5 gods are
MKLeo:4marth::4cloud2:
Nairo:4zss::4bowser:
Dabuz:rosalina::4olimar:
Tweek:4bayonetta2::4cloud2:
Mistake:4bayonetta2:

there the only ones that have been winning the tournaments with 2 of these players in attendance are leagues above the 6th best Fatality Cloudhead and OrionRank agree with me on this

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iGovSC6JqzIwVvPkfGZ7Dwo_TvozGGLzbhk_Z7TTq1A/edit#gid=0
https://intheloop837.wordpress.com/2018/05/15/orionrank-mid-spring-2018-15-1/

so yeah I think everyone can agree that ZeRo's retirement has created a new era for smash 4 but it might be the New Era Of The 5 Gods
Except that only MKLeo and Nairo (and sometimes Dabuz) has been winning majors.
 

Ordeaux26

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Except that only MKLeo and Nairo (and sometimes Dabuz) has been winning majors.
what about Tweek winning EGLX 2018 and GLitch 4 and Mistake winning Mason Versus

I also want to point to point out that back in melee's era of the 5 gods armada and mango where hogging most tournament wins
 
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The_Bookworm

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what about Tweek winning EGLX 2018 and GLitch 4 and Mistake winning Mason Versus
Mason Versus is a regional tournament, being a C tier. While EGLX is sort of considered a national tournament, it is still merely B tier.
 
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Ordeaux26

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Mason Versus is a regional tournament, being a C tier. While EGLX is sort of considered a national tournament, it is still merely B tier.
I get that but a similar thing happened in melee's five gods era armada and mango and then armada and hungybox where hogging most of the tournament wins

I'm not saying it happened yet but I could be the start of the new era of the five gods i need more time before i know for sure but it is a possibility
 

EMT~

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Okay, seeing pu55yk1ng's name as an entrant at some of these tournaments really makes me want to talk about his playstyle, because I love watching him play, and his style is very much worth talking about.

The thing that stands out about esports-k1ng's playstyle is how he abuses walking as a form of movement. I think this has been discussed on this thread before to some extent, but walking can actually be a really powerful option at times. Reason being, it provides a form of mobility that's associated with minimal commitment. A lot of movement options require a reasonable amount of commitment and/or limit your options somehow:

-Dash to shield? You're locking yourself in a certain direction for a character-dependent number of frames during the initial dash animation. And you're commiting yourself to moving over a certain range of the stage based on the distance of the initial dash animation. Foxtrot? Same thing. Extended dash dance? Same thing. All of them require a commitment of at least as long as your character's initial dash animation, and into a space dependent on your character's dash distance.
-Straight-up dashing? You're committing to the direction that you run in until you do something. Of course, the "somethings" that you can do are rather limited, consisting of options like dash attack/grab, jump-cancelable moves, and straight-up jumping.
-Speaking of, jumping can be a commitment itself. First, you have jumpsquat frames, although that's pretty minor for a lot of characters. Then, you're forced into the air and moving a certain direction. This isn't always a huge problem, but for characters who have poor aerial drifting ability (like Ryu), jumping basically forces you in a certain direction for the entire time you're in the air, which is a very big commitment.

Plus, your aerial options can be considered limiting to some extent, depending on the character and aerial move. You have to specifically time your aerials in such a way to avoid landing lag, and that's assuming the aerial you're throwing out has reasonable autocancel frames to begin with. You can avoid that timing commitment by just attacking in the air whenever; but that incurs the cost of suffering landing lag, a pretty significant commitment in itself.

As for walking? There's not nearly as much commitment. You can move around (albeit not always incredibly quickly) pretty easily. But the thing is. you still have access to a lot of your grounded attacks almost at will. Basically, walking lets you move and attack thereafter, with minimal wait time. This is powerful because you can stay mobile while simultaneously threatening space around you via your grounded attacks.

As a quick example of what I mean, check out this set:

At around the ~4:23 mark, pu55yk1ing does a really short walk to move himself out of Ryu's BAir range, and then immediately reacts by hitting Ki with a DSmash. This short walk is what allowed pu55yk1ng to get the punish that he did. Almost immediately thereafter, pu55yk1ng walks under an aerial approach by Ki and anti-airs him with a UTilt. It ends up trading; but again, it shows how you can use walking to move around and threaten your opponent almost simultaneously. And finally, pu55yking wins the set by using his walk to space himself around Ki's landing NAir and catching his landing with a DTilt -> UpB combo.

Obviously, the power of walking is pretty heavily character-dependent. The better your walk speed, the more powerful your walking game will be, obviously. And you have to have a decent set of grounded attacks to take advantage of, which not every character actually has. But for characters who fulfill these two requirements, walking can definitely be a useful option at times. And I think pu55yk1ng's playstyle really highlights this.
 
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Aaron1997

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Sumabato 25 170 entrants May 27th

Notable's

HIKARU :4dk:
Towa:rosalina:
Sigma:4tlink:
Tea:4pacman:
You3:4duckhunt:
Oishiitofu:4greninja:
DIO:4ryu::4yoshi:
Ri-ma:4tlink:
Shogun:4fox:
Mangalitza:4cloud2:
OCEAN:4rob:
Nojinko:4myfriends:
Agehasama:4lucas:
Fuwa:4marth:
Nasubi:4zss:
Kisha:4bowser::4megaman:
 

Heracr055

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Messages
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Locus will not be attending Dreamhack due to circumstances beyond his control.
And people are sleeping on Salem once again.
Lastly, the idea of a "5 gods of Smash 4" is laughable. Mistake being included is even more laughable. This is a classic example of bandwagoning recent results.
 
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