Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[FeelMeUp]

Damn, props to Shogun for overcoming that MU and taking a game off Salem.

 

[DunnoBro]

after salem does well at big house get ready for ban bayo all over again.
abadongo has no idea how to sdi her.
dath does.
also dont confuse salem's skill with bayo and claim she has no weaknesses salem is just truly amazing at masking her weaknesses like any high tier player.

I'm tired of people telling m2 mains(or players in general) they don't know how to SDI Bayo combos.

Like, all the SDI changes did was make bayo have more emphasis on spacing and mix-ups. And m2 is absurdly easy to space it on.

The bigger you are, and the slower your airspeed the less helpful SDI is. (Gravity also effects things. Floaties can get janked or just avoid her combos, fast fallers are hard to combo at low percents but royally screwed at higher/with rage)

Bayonetta and Mewtwo are both extremely stupid characters. Honestly, they're my picks for #1 and 2 respectively with only Diddy rivaling their level of stupidity.

Pretty much this. People overstate their weaknesses as if they don't have qualities to directly cover said weaknesses. Metas develop much slower for DLC than flagship characters due to not only exposure but hesitance to shift focus. I study this game in-depth and every character I honestly felt was broken/overtuned in the past got nerfed. These characters feel very similar to some of the less noticeable but still absurd monsters of the past.

But, I'm confident people will be seeing it soon enough so I won't push the issue.

 

[Yonder]

Little Big House 2
1st: Salem
2nd: Abadango
3rd: Rich Brown ,
4th: Kamemushi
5th: Dath
5th: 6WX
7th: JJROCKETS
7th: Nairo
9th: Shogun
9th: Komorikiri
9th: Kie
9th: FILIP
13th: Ksev
13th: WaDi
13th: Remzi
13th: Sodrek

Rich Brown has an Olimar? Huh. Between him and Dabuz, I guess Olimar is some sort of great counterpick/secondary character

Spoiler

meanwhile as the Fox scourge comes hither, I won't say anything about Luigi as a counterpick...

 

[L9999]

Rich Brown has an Olimar? Huh. Between him and Dabuz, I guess Olimar is some sort of great counterpick/secondary character

Spoiler

meanwhile as the Fox scourge comes hither, I won't say anything about Luigi as a counterpick...

Rich Brown was an Olimar main before Mewtwo became relevant. I guess he will still play him...

 

[Megamang]

If diddy is his m2's worst MU, his setup is screaming for olimar.


I, for one, welcome our new m2 overlords. Glass cannons with multiple exploitable weaknesses make fine top tiers. He hates cross up rolls... greninja's forward roll is faster than his backwards one. He has so many tools for this MU, its fun. High octane too, to win as gren you gotta press hard when you get in, force a blatant read, and kill him fast before you die to fair in neutral.

I mean... someone here, chainz i think, mentioned greninja can 2 frame teleport with his dair. Thats how petal-to-the-floor you gotta go, but if you do you kill m2 at 60 with charged usmash.


Better than needles and fair/ftilt/boost grab/safeness incarnate meta. But yea, bayo and m2 might bring sakurai reluctantly back to the balancing table. Lets talk about it sunday . Kameme was doin alright v Bayo, till things went sour.

And yea, she looked strong but lots of it was Salem insanity. He got aba lots with abk right into ledge cancels, for example. Though he was able to miss witch time tons and still kill with it super early.. idk. He was playing really well, but at the same time it was like he was so confident because he knew what bayo bs went where. Much like zero was a living example of how stupid grab kill fair wall shiek was, you gotta give credit to both together.

 

[Fenny]

Add Kamemushi to Salem's win list.

EDIT: "Komorikiri knows his way around a banana"

EDIT2: Add 6WX to Salem's win list too.

6WX has been on Salem's win list for like 5 months now rofl

 

[Das Koopa]

salem's list of souls from September includes

ZeRo x2
Tweek x2
Mew2King x2
Abadango x2
6WX x2
Kamemushi
Nairo
Mr. E
Dath
Dyr
Fatality

He's positioned himself pretty well right now

 

[FamilyTeam]

Hey, só Lucina is getting even more results, now?
That is great! Thank you, Nairo, for helping us out!
With Koga in TBH6, I hope this means Lucie has even more results coming.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Here's a brief overview over imporant wins/losses by the people that placed top 16 at Little Big House 2:


1st: Salem

-> 4-1 vs Abadango [2 sets], 2-1 vs Dath, 2-1 vs 6wx, 2-0 vs Kamemushi, 2-1 vs Shogun
-> N/A

2nd: Abadango

-> 4-0 vs RichBrown [2 sets], 2-0 Filip
-> 1-4 vs Salem [2 sets]

3rd: Rich Brown ,

-> 2-1 vs Kamemushi, 2-0 vs 6wx, 2-1 vs Nairo, 2-1 vs Ryuga
-> 0-4 vs Abadango [2 sets]

4th: Kamemushi

-> 2-0 vs Dath, 2-1 vs Nairo, 2-0 vs Filip, 2-1 vs Sodrek, 2-0 vs Darkshad
-> 0-2 vs RichBrown, 0-2 vs Salem

5th: Dath

-> 2-1 vs JJRockets, 2-0 vs Marss
-> 0-2 vs Kamemushi, 1-2 vs Salem

5th: 6WX

-> 2-0 vs JJRockets, 2-1 vs Kie
-> 0-2 vs RichBrown, 1-2 vs Salem

7th: JJROCKETS

-> 2-1 vs Shogun, 2-1 vs Komorikiri
-> 0-2 vs 6wx, 1-2 vs Dath

7th: Nairo

-> 2-0 vs Komorikiri, 2-0 vs Blacktwins
-> 1-2 vs Kamemushi, 1-2 vs RichBrown

9th: Shogun

-> 2-0 vs Wadi, 2-1 vs Blacktwins
-> 1-2 JJRockets, 1-2 vs Salem

9th: Komorikiri

-> 2-0 vs Ksev, 2-0 vs Sodrek
-> 0-2 vs Nairo, 1-2 vs JJRockets

9th: Kie

-> 2-0 vs Remzi, 2-0 vs SETHsational
-> 1-2 vs 6wx

9th: FILIP

-> N/A
-> 0-2 vs Kamemushi, 0-2 vs Abadango

13th: Ksev

-> 2-0 vs Marss, 2-1 vs TrueBlue
-> 0-2 vs Komorikiri

13th: WaDi

-> 2-1 vs Ryuga
-> 0-2 vs Shogun

13th: Remzi

-> 2-0 vs Raziek
-> 0-2 vs Kie

13th: Sodrek

-> N/A
-> 1-2 vs Kamemushi, 0-2 vs 6wx


* I don't know about any major wins for Filip and Sodrek at this tournament
* Sodrek placed 13th but lost against two top 6 players
* Filip got 9th but lost against 2nd and 4th respectively, both fellow japanese players
* Marss and Ryuga are among the big names that failed to make it into the top 16

Bayonetta and Mewtwo are both extremely stupid characters. Honestly, they're my picks for #1 and 2 respectively with only Diddy rivaling their level of stupidity.

I still think that Sheik is the best character in the game. But her and the three characters you mentioned make a reasonble top 4. 5th place is up for grabs between Sonic, Fox and Mario and the order after that is extremely unclear between characters like ZSS, Cloud and Rosalina.

 

[NotLiquid]

I definitely feel like all eyes are gonna be on Bayonetta this tournament. Salem's been brewing up a nasty warpath, Pink Fresh is still doing somewhat decently all things considered (2 hours of sleep lol) and TBH6 is probably going to be emblematic of how much players have developed her since 1.1.6. initially released. It has me pretty nervous all things considered but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm incredibly excited to see how far up the ladder this character can go.

(Watch this post look completely stupid when either of them strike out before Top 8)

 

[ShadowGuy1]

I definitely feel like all eyes are gonna be on Bayonetta this tournament. Salem's been brewing up a nasty warpath, Pink Fresh is still doing somewhat decently all things considered (2 hours of sleep lol) and TBH6 is probably going to be emblematic of how much players have developed her since 1.1.6. initially released. It has me pretty nervous all things considered but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm incredibly excited to see how far up the ladder this character can go.

(Watch this post look completely stupid when either of them strike out before Top 8)

You also forgot to mention saj, who got 9th at CEO

 

[TurboLink]

The bigger you are, and the slower your airspeed the less helpful SDI is.

For ****'s sake, is this why I always seem to fail at SDIing Bayonetta's stupid up special. I always thought I was just doing it wrong or not fast enough.

But now I'm learning that mobility plays a part. Hmm, I better go check Link's air speed and air acceleration.

52-53 best air speed in the game and 45-52 best air acceleration.

...

Really, **** Sakurai.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Yea lets not do that.

 

[Nah]

I still maintain that Robin is top 20. Most slept on high tier in the game.

There is nothing at this time to indicate that Robin is high tier/top 20.

 

[DunnoBro]

For ****'s sake, is this why I always seem to fail at SDIing Bayonetta's stupid up special. I always thought I was just doing it wrong or not fast enough.

But now I'm learning that mobility plays a part. Hmm, I better go check Link's air speed and air acceleration.

52-53 best air speed in the game and 45-52 best air acceleration.

...

Really, **** Sakurai.

To be more clear, it doesn't effect your inherent ability to SDI. But rather makes it easier for bayo to space for her specials and aerials to keep you in the combo.

Ideally, bayo wants you positioned as close to her middle as possible, and a little bit behind her (usually by b-reversing) This means if your DI gets mixed up, you're dead. But also, at magic percents where you stay in range for the late hit of uair, you're still dead.

SDI effects the positioning and percents. (DI 50/50) But if the positioning and percents line up, it doesn't matter. And that window becomes larger and more lenient the bigger, and slower you are. With platforms, it matters even less still.

As dumb as witch twist is, I think the bigger issue is AFB. While the reward is only medium, and it doesn't itself kill confirm (usually) the fact she gets it back after being hit is absurd. Since she needs it for combos I understand the lack of endlag, but even if sheik or ZSS use their flip kicks completely wrong it's a pretty big deal getting hit out of them since they lose them as escape options until they land.

Bayo never forfeits that safeness whatsoever. She can definitely use the wrong options and get away with it.

 

[ARISTOS]

Excited for TBH6, it's been the first big tournament in a while (Late August-September closest thing to an off season we have).

Salem is the man of the hour rn- if there was something akin to a form tracker I don't there's been anyone on better "form" than him.

 

[DunnoBro]

With Salem regularly practicing with many of the top 10, I feel iffy about the placements of any non-salem Bayos.

 

[|RK|]

Little Big House 2
1st: Salem
2nd: Abadango
3rd: Rich Brown ,
4th: Kamemushi
5th: Dath
5th: 6WX
7th: JJROCKETS
7th: Nairo
9th: Shogun
9th: Komorikiri
9th: Kie
9th: FILIP
13th: Ksev
13th: WaDi
13th: Remzi
13th: Sodrek

I think Nairo also went Cloud.

EDIT: And Robin

 

[wedl!!]

Bayonetta and Mewtwo are both extremely stupid characters. Honestly, they're my picks for #1 and 2 respectively with only Diddy rivaling their level of stupidity.

Ohoho!

Have you ever played against Sheik?

 

[mountain_tiger]

• 3-5 good characters(top half of the cast) your main does well against?
• 5 bad/mediocre characters(bottom half of the cast) does your main do worse than expected or poorly against?
• What's your main's most optimal playing style and why?
• What area(s) could mains of your character improve in to push their meta further and make them be seen as a better individual on the roster?
• What matchups or strategies could stop your main from advancing in the meta?
• Good character to secondary/pocket with your main?
• A few little known facts about your main that people get caught up on? Tricks they have, things you shouldn't try to punish, etc

Zelda time! (Because bottom tiers need love too, you know)

3-5 good characters(top half of the cast) your main does well against?

This is a tough one since Zelda struggles with most of the top half of the cast. Using a rather loose interpretation of 'characters who are still problematic but less so than you'd expect', then there's...

Still an uphill struggle for Zelda, for reasons I'm sure most people can have a decent guess at, but Zelda has a few tools that give her a fighting chance. For a start, Din's Fire and Phantom Slash (tools which are generally borderline useless and highly situational respectively) are very useful for dispatching Luma quickly, as is FSmash. When Luma isn't around, Rosalina and Zelda play surprisingly similarly and it makes life much easier... for about twelve seconds.

Two more reasons why this matchup is *bearable* are that: 1) you have a better chance of landing a lightning kick against Rosa than most characters due to her large hurtbox, yet her incredible lightness also means they kill her stupid early - the combo of attributes that lightning kick craves, and 2) provided Zelda can get her offstage, she can take advantage of Rosalina's recovery rather well and use the opportunity to land a Dair or other powerful attack.

This isn't to suggest the matchup is good for Zelda or even 50-50; just that she does better against Rosa than most other top tiers.

A surprisingly manageable matchup so long as Zelda doesn't commit to... well, anything that it isn't absolutely necessary to. Suffice to say, his ability to punish mistakes and CQC are far superior to Zelda's, so the focus has to be on forcing a situation where he has to come to her, which is less of a nightmare here than usual. FSmash is Zelda's best friend here.

She also has a couple of other advantages on her side. The first is that Ryu's very unusual mobility physics actually open up opportunities for lightning kicks that normally wouldn't be available. Secondly, Ryu's very predictable recovery make it easy to edgeguard him if you can get him offstage.

Er... sort of. The matchup becomes hell on earth if he gets above 120% or so and he manages to clinch the kill first.

If you can avoid that happening, Zelda manages OK. His Shadow Ball is the sort of projectile that Nayru's Love works well against, and at low percents his CQC really isn't any better than hers, so she can stay at close range and not be slaughtered, for a little while at least. From there, the key goal is to try and get that sub-100% kill.

Fortunately, the chances of that are appreciably non-zero here, because: a) punishing mistakes with lightning kicks will always be a thing, even if they don't necessarily happen every stock, and b) she can wreck Lucario's recovery hard if she reads him right.

Effectively, the matchup can work out surprisingly decently... or become your worst nightmare. Picking Zelda here can work as a wild card option, maybe.


5 bad/mediocre characters(bottom half of the cast) does your main do worse than expected or poorly against?

Now this one is much easier. Granted, those 'bad/mediocre characters' will generally still be better than Zelda, but some of them are far more of a headache than you'd expect, starting with...

No joke, Zelda is probably his most favourable matchup. His ground game flat-out beats hers in every single conceivable way - it's faster, safer, recovers quicker, has better damage and power and either equal or slightly better range. Coupled with her being unable to exploit his poor air game to any appreciable effect, and suddenly she faces a character who completely destroys her in neutral with little to defend herself with.

The only real way that Zelda has any chance of winning is to get him off-stage, because if that happens he really shouldn't be making it back. But good luck actually getting him off-stage in the first place, because you're definitely gonna need it...

Another low-tier that proves deceptively nightmarish for Zelda. That sword of his outranges and out-disjoints her like nobody's business whilst having comparable frame data, and his jab has better frame data than practically any of Zelda's tools, and good power to match. Seriously, Zelda has a rough time with almost every swordfighter in the game, and Ike is far from an exception to that.

Once again, her main fleeting chance of success is to try and get him off-stage... which, as if it needs to be reiterated, isn't exactly the world's easiest task.

This matchup is not only a major uphill struggle, it's also very boring for both parties. Samus' combination of projectiles and Zair means she can make it very difficult for Zelda to deal any damage to her or get anywhere near her. Even when Zelda gets close, she has tools like FTilt and DSmash to outrange her and/or keep her at bay. Nayru's Love can potentially help a little, but it's exceedingly risky, especially at higher percents, because baiting that sort of reaction is exactly what Samus wants so that she can blast you with a fully-charged Charge Shot. Unlike the previous two just mentioned, you also can't take it for granted that you can abuse them off-stage as Samus' recovery is pretty decent (N.B. that doesn't mean you shouldn't try regardless!)

Zelda can take advantage of her in the air reasonably well... if you can get her to commit to that in the first place. (Hint: don't take her to Final Destination!)

I've said before that Palutena is largely like a souped-up Zelda, and it definitely shows when they face off directly. Palutena's safe Fair is the sort of tool Zelda would die for, and Uair and Bair are both terrifying kill moves that Zelda doesn't have any easy answers against. Palutena's jab and grab alone also pose issues for Zelda's ground game. It's not an impossible matchup for Zelda, but it's very frustrating purely because Zelda can't take advantage of Palutena's weaknesses particularly well, and Zelda's strengths are mostly either equalled or bettered by Palutena.

This one is a bit like an eclectic combo of Ike and Samus' advantages over Zelda, only less extreme. Solid disjoint and range and a superior air game makes it tough for Zelda in close-range, and his flurry of projectiles make it tough at longer ranges too. Once again, landing hits on this guy is difficult. And I'm sure by this stage I don't need to say what Zelda's best shot at winning is against him...


What's your main's most optimal playing style and why?

Ideally, Zelda wants to get a significant lead on her opponent (a life lead works best, but a significant percent lead should usually work fine too), and then just play it slow and safe. It's easily forgotten amidst all her flaws, but if she gets the chance to use it, Zelda does have a genuinely decent defensive game. Jab and FSmash are both great defensive tools against ground-based opponents, Nayru's Love has good invincibility frames which can work as a pseudo-counter of sorts (and depending on their exact nature, it can work well in its intended role as a reflector against projectiles too!), Phantom Slash, whilst not too useful as an attack, builds up a temporary wall for the opponent, and sometimes you can take advantage of the hitlag induced from this, and DTilt is a great 'panic attack' if they get too close for comfort.

There are a few different ways that are usually your best chance to obtain this lead:
a) Land a lightning kick at reasonable percents. Depending on the MU this can be either equivalent to praying to win the lottery jackpot, a long shot but worth going for, or an astonishingly feasible option.
b) Land a Dair (not necessarily a sweetspotted one). Assuming this doesn't outright kill them, it will at least force them to recover at a very awkward angle, setting up the next potential edgeguard attack.
c) Ledge trap them with DTilt, potentially to lead into a lightning kick attempt, but perhaps also more mundanely to follow up with DSmash, FTilt or FSmash.

Essentially, if you can set up a situation where your opponent is forced to approach (rare, but it can happen), life gets much easier for Zelda.


What area(s) could mains of your character improve in to push their meta further and make them be seen as a better individual on the roster?

Five words. Get. More. Aggressive. With. Edgeguarding.

Zelda having a better than average recovery has been known since day 1 (with many people exaggerating how good it is, but that's besides the point). Crucially, it's entirely centred around her up B - her bottom tier second jump has very little effect, and overall losing said double jump affects her less than practically anyone else in the cast. This combined with up B's long distance means that you can afford to go almost as deep as you want, and be assured that you can still make it back safely!

The glory hunter in you may be tempted to go straight for a lightning kick, but there are far better ways to get that edgeguard. Dair is particularly infamous, because if it sweetspots at any significant percent they're almost certainly doomed. Even if it isn't sweetspotted, against some characters that's still nearly as deadly (*glances aside at Little Mac, Ganondorf, Dr. Mario etc.*), and it's most often her saving grace in a matchup. A very underrated alternative edgeguard tool is Nair - with its long-lasting hitboxes and fast speed, Zelda can use it to push her opponent just slightly away from the stage. With luck, this will put them too far away to recover, whilst you can still make it back safely. Even if they, say, successfully air dodge it, that might well have been enough to put them out of recovery's reach (especially if they have used their double jump).

Even characters who wouldn't necessarily be thought of as having a bad recovery can potentially find themselves victim to Zelda's edgeguarding. For example, Peach (whose recovery is generally solid and pretty hard to gimp) has to be wary of Zelda's Dair at all times when offstage, even when she still has her double jump. Now, a sufficiently telegraphed Dair can generally be usurped with the wise use of Peach Parasol, which is fine until Zelda starts baiting that, and then takes the opportunity to blast the now defenseless Peach with a Uair, or otherwise goes back to the stage with all the time in the world to think up how to hit Peach coming back. Another example is Marth - in his case, Nair works well against him, as it exploits his rather poor horizontal recovery better than many characters can.

In the event that going deep offstage won't do much good, there's the less committal option of ledgetrapping. DTilt in particular is amazing in this regard - it has great frame data (unlike basically every other move Zelda has), hits under the ledge, and is fairly easy to time to hit many characters when they're briefly vulnerable. Its weak vertical knockback then sets them up perfectly for other attacks, as already mentioned above. In the event that DTilt to beat their ledge grab attempt doesn't work, a well-timed short hop into Nayru's Love is a surprisingly good counter to many ledge get-up options, and in a best-case scenario will push them back offstage.

In simple terms, as a Zelda player you need to constantly ensure you're making the most of any chances you get where your opponent is offstage. Currently, it feels like many Zelda players are reluctant to do that.


What matchups or strategies could stop your main from advancing in the meta?

Er... replace 'could stop' with 'already are stopping'.

Mega uphill struggle MUs at the top level are endless - Diddy, Cloud, Sheik, Sonic, Fox, Bayonetta etc. etc. etc.

As for strategies, pretty much anything any characters does that makes themselves hard to hit, or lets them escape from disadvantaged states easily (or both!), leave Zelda struggling hard. Oh, and strong air to ground games - they wreck Zelda big time.


Good character to secondary/pocket with your main?

Well, the vast majority of characters would be an improvement. Primarily for humour value, I'll just say 'Sheik' and leave it at that...


A few little known facts about your main that people get caught up on? Tricks they have, things you shouldn't try to punish, etc

A few small pointers can't hurt, I guess.

1. Zelda's jab has less than 10 frames of endlag. Don't try to shield punish it, or even whiff punish it to be honest. It's literally 'bait and punish' consolidated into a single move.
2. I've mentioned this already, but remember that the Phantom Slash itself isn't necessarily the threat - the self-induced hitlag from hitting it can be far more detrimental, as it provides Zelda with a golden opportunity to land a heavy hit on you.
3. UTilt is great for reaching through small platforms, and while it's not primarily a kill move anymore, it becomes a reliable back-up kill tool if she has some Rage on her side - be sure not to underestimate it.
4. And to finish off with a completely useless fact - the final hitbox of USmash has a knockback growth of over 200!

I've just checked and apparently this whole post is over 2000 words long, so I think that might be my cue to stop for a little while. Feel free to agree with/disagree with/completely tear apart this post as you wish.

 

[blackghost]

BH6 will also allow many people to see why bayo mains and main players see salem as better than pink and saj.
DunnoBro knowing how to sdi her combos doesnt mean you will escape what it does mean is that
1. you wont let salem or pink do a triple witch twist combo for a free carry to the ceiling aka dont DI in twice in a row
2. you wont make the conversion from wt to abk easy. make them have to react read the di. dont let them alsways do the same pattern
3. make some attempt at sdi witch twist. you shoudnt remain in the center of the move. look at dath's match he popped out in various places and in many different angles.

 

[TDK]

From watching the Big House, it looks like Luma is able to punish Command-grabs while Rosalina is being Command-grabbed. An example would be Falcon's Up-B, where Rosalina can get grabbed, break out of it with Luma, and then repeat to make falcon's life a nightmare offstage.

 

[DunnoBro]


dont DI in twice in a row

You mean don't guess wrong because DI out becomes DI in with a single B-reverse.

you wont make the conversion from wt to abk easy. make them have to react read the di. dont let them alsways do the same pattern

It isn't hard at all to react to the DI if you're familiar with the character and their percents. (Since there's character-specific reactions, you definitely need to be familiar though.)

3. make some attempt at sdi witch twist. you shoudnt remain in the center of the move. look at dath's match he popped out in various places and in many different angles.

I'm talking about from the start, not pre-tumble.

Overall though, the roofie combos are not my issue with bayo at all. It's how safely she sets up and tries for them. The end of game 3 vs salem he falls out 3 times in a row, still in a bad enough position for salem to just trap him and try again until finally Salem just fishes for it until he gets one final Twist death combo.

Maybe 1/10 of her combos including witch twist result in death per game. But holy cow can she just keep trying forever. And it's both her damage racker and most consistent kill confirm, so the gameplan doesn't have to change much until absurdly high percent.

 

[sedrf]

How many notable bayos are at big house today

 

[Fenny]

How many notable bayos are at big house today

Basically all of them bar Tyroy:

Salem
Pink Fresh
Saj
Captain Zack
JK
RiotLettuce (I think)

Mr R said he might pull her out as well.

 

[Celes_]

Basically all of them bar Tyroy:

Salem
Pink Fresh
Saj
Captain Zack
JK
RiotLettuce (I think)

Mr R said he might pull her out as well.

Tyroy is at Big House actually, Riot isn't.

Tyroy counterpicks A LOT though, so idk how much Bayonetta he'll be playing compared to Sheik / Metaknight who he's been favoring a bit more recently.

Lagnel from Japan is there too. He dual mains ZSS / Bayo.

 

[Fenny]

Tyroy is at Big House actually, Riot isn't.

Tyroy counterpicks A LOT though, so idk how much Bayonetta he'll be playing compared to Sheik / Metaknight who he's been favoring a bit more recently.

Lagnel from Japan is there too. He dual mains ZSS / Bayo.

I thought Tyroy said he couldn't go because school was a priority?

 

[verbatim]

I go to school with Tyroy, he had to cancel last minute. He probably would have played mostly Bayonetta.

Speaking of which, I'm upset that ESAM got zero r1 top 32 instead of Salem, since he's been the main proponent of SDI being the key to beating Bayonetta and the only one to really back it up in practice (1.1.5). IK he's had some clutch losses to Saj and I think Salem since then, but I'd still be excited in seeing the match if it happens.

 

[TDK]

For all you mains out there, Reflex beat Raziek.

 

[Ilikebugs]

Looks like even low midtiers can beat Cloud. Cloud isnt top 50 :^)

 

[Megamang]

What does bayo do vs hard down SDI? Ive been doing this successfully, but i havent played Salem. But i saw him end with a bair when it happened to him maybe a month ago. So either its been optimized, or it always ends in just a bair. Which is it?

 

[NotLiquid]

Just when Krow's switch to DK looks like it might be what's needed to knock Salem to losers, he just straight up downloads him in game 3 like nobody's business. This man's Bayonetta is just unreal.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

For all you mains out there, Reflex beat Raziek.

Raziek's a competent player but Reflex is like crazy good in all smash games he sinks time into. I'm confident in saying that this is the expected outcome regardless of how bad the matchup may or may not be.

 

[Das Koopa]

15/16 on pools winners predictions for A Block Pools. Ksev beat Z.

 

[HoSmash4]

What are the suggested pros and cons in the Fox Pikachu matchup? Add in a score if you really want. I feel like this is a matchup people suggest either side.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Just when Krow's switch to DK looks like it might be what's needed to knock Salem to losers, he just straight up downloads him in game 3 like nobody's business. This man's Bayonetta is just unreal.

Isn't DK, like, the easiest combo target for Bayonetta ever?

 

[TDK]

Ned's cloud is seriously amazing.

Ned 2-0 Nasubi

 

[Das Koopa]

Blacktwins loses 0-2 to Vivid. I never did Fantasy bracket, but I would've probably bought BTs after his recent Ontario performances.

 

[NotLiquid]

Isn't DK, like, the easiest combo target for Bayonetta ever?

Salem seemed to have difficulty to convert those combos into actual KOs a lot of the time. DK with Rage is also a positional equalizer that's kind of scary to think about considering Bayo is a lightweight. Even though I'd still think Bayonetta has the overall advantage it was a huge game of patience, with Salem spending game 3 being very daring with some incredibly good reads and reactions that I wouldn't expect other players to do.

 

[TDK]

Blacktwins loses 0-2 to Vivid. I never did Fantasy bracket, but I would've probably bought BTs after his recent Ontario performances.

Who does Vivid use?

EDIT: Tweek replaces Dabuz in crews.