Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Dtilt stop work at about 130-140. They can just jump.
I'm arguing she's overtuned (par the course of a top tier) but not broken so I guess we're on the same page anyway lmao
True enough, but being able to kill on stage with safety and consistency like say Diddy or Mario can is something she doesn't really have outside of mid-high percent ladder combos.
I personally think that Sheik's only slightly losing to even, since she solidly beats her in the neutral and frame data but Bayo's large hitboxes make catching Shiek's openings easier and gets more reward off of punishes. Just that the way VoiD plays the MU is the best I've seen from a Sheik so far.
You already know whether she's going to do heel2 based upon whether she's shooting purple bullets during the slide.
I think it's possible to hold the button long enough to get bullets but also let it go in time to stop the second hit from coming out.
Mmm, to me overtuned is something in need of nerfs or retweaking. I don't believe top tiers are overtuned by definition or in general.
In neutral? Perhaps. Though fishing for bair/twists/times/fthrows (to kill or l/edgeguard is fine) is more than efficient at that percent, it's a very similar game to ZSS at that percent. But those mid-high combos are extremely consistent and you can get to those percents in as little as two or one true combos.
Sheik's neutral makes it hard to judge many reward-based matchups. Which is why I didn't want to prioritize MU discussion over kit comparison.
You're certain you can do the bullets and not kick?
Registers as a true combo on mario till 168. It's training mode, and excluding rage but even your given percents are pretty forgiving. Even sheik's downtilt doesn't confirm that late usually.
Uh Larry vs captain zack? Well captain zack is good but it depends on your definition of top I guess
The timing is extremely precise and you won't get a lot of bullets.
It didn't seem very precise to me... Like, just don't tap special and you'll get some bullets. It's hard to get max bullets maybe, but you just need a few to feign the kick and keep it a mix up.
Either practice it or look it up with as many details as you can. Otherwise we get a "Pac-Man's grab has less endlag" situation again. Not to mention it's a possibility that after a certain frame, it locks into the kick, as you should always be watching Bayo's feet, it'll be more noticeable
Seems like you just need to let go before frame 15 (first hitbox). Easily consistent. She keeps shooting the bullets after though so it feigns the kick fine. Honestly it just naturally flows with the option select anyway, it does it automatically if you just don't tap it. With it already being such a slight visual cue, any further denial that it can be a safe mixup is going to be more like the "You can react to ZSS's grab" situation.
I definitely just remembered that happened 2 Days ago. Just hadn't updated it yet. Muh bad, I'm a liar. Was that set streamed?
Yes it was. It was a Fair death string that is now in every highlight reel.
If the bullets don't come out, then you can safely say that the flip kick isn't coming. But yeah, bullets do not necessarily mean flip kick.
One quick question - doesn't ZeRo often do banana-less because of Witch Time?
Shes a strong edgeguarder yes but there\s a LOT of competition for best edgeguarder. I don't see how she can be better than Sheik, MK and Pikachu, Villager, or even Marcina. All Bayonetta really has that makes her edgeguarding "the best" is WT against hitbox recoveries with no intangibility, up air, bair, nair, and a situational dsmash. Now compare that to Sheik's fair, bair, nair, needles, bouncing fish, and vanish all destroying peoples recoveries almost risk free.
Let's be realistic here: Smash players have never been very good at playing like they're playing traditional fighters. The two communities have very different attitudes overall. It's why there's so much tension between them. There is overlap but generally speaking FGC people are different from Smash players. It's the unfortunate truth.regarding bayo I find a common denominator I'm my local scene:the players that play also traditional fighters aren't struggling with her as much. just a local observation.
players aren't correctly punishing her end lag. if she is active in the air she has a large emount of end lag. I watched the wf, wsf, and gf sets with pink and he's not scared to land anywhere even when he's unsafe because he knows he won't be punished. and before someone says it's witchtime bait remember that he'd have to witchtime before he hots the ground. it's not the correct punish to swing before she lands. and it's never correct to charge a smash attack.
as for people saying the di Argument is invalid watching all the sets I could I saw people escape in the match where zach was eliminated he couldn't get the kill at all. even pink had issues confirming kills without witchtime assistance at times.
DunnoBro even if she b reverses witch twist can't you sdi down or up?
and someone corect me if I'm wrong but most of these extremely rewarding combos for bayo start with heel slide right? that move frame wise, startup, and safety is horrible outside of a tech chase there is no reason for that to hit you and no reason why she shouldn't eat a punish for it. pink fresh was sliding around like it was her sprint. it needs to be punished.
anyway olimar what does the future hold?
Refer to the above statement.Or we can bring back in the Bayonetta Ban discussion so we don't re-add a poison into the meta like we did in Brawl if she gets that bad in order to keep the game's lifespan longer.
*runs away dodging various thrown objects*
Megafox vs. CaptainZack (TGC 8)
i still see villager as the best at edgegaurding. he can go as deep as he wants, drop a smash attack offstage, tree setups, and fair and bair just destroy most characters offstage and he has a ridiculous spike and upair. hes the only character that can put out multip[le hitboxes at once that can all kill you offstage.
I mean, tbh, we seem to talk about Marth quite frequently and unfortunately whenever we do Lucina is brought up or vice versa. (To clarify, I don't mean discussing Lucina is unfortunate, rather that the fact that we can't seem to separate the two and treat them as their own characters when discussing them and because of this we often just end up discussing their kill confirms over and over and over and how they differ and how Marth has better jab confirms, Lucina relies more on nair, blah blah blah.)So why are talking aboutbut not
is commonly considered toon link's worst matchup(Zan put it as toon link's worst matchup). Hyuga also lost to tweek 3-1 at CEO. Here's the set to give an idea of why its his worst mu.
It's more like a place where you can argue over how directly viable a character is on a changing list. Below is an example:
Viability rankings also matter a lot more in Pokemon, since your skill as a player can't compensate for worse Pokemon. Also, such in-depth rankings would also take much more skill and effort to properly explain to new players.
I'm not seeing the difference.
I love Pokemon and play it competitively, but my consistency with playing the game is much less than Smash. Some days I just don't want to play Pokemon due to getting haxed or something. Then I get slightly sad that I lost a battle due to chance, but thats a part of the game. If you play competitive pokemon, you realize that the game has a lot of luck and not as much skill involved as other games.
Witch Time on an aerial is far more likely than WT on a banana. Besides, Banana Diddy vs Bayo is almost 0 risk med reward while aerial Diddy vs Bayo is med risk low reward.
If there's a banana on the ground Bayo can Witch Time off the lingering 'trip box' at any time and use WT's AoE properties to snare Diddy.
