Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Deleted member]

2GGT: Abadango Saga

1st: TSM l ZeRo
2nd: ELv l Larry Lurr
3rd: NRG l Nairo
4th: C9 l Ally
5th: Komorikiri
5th: Rich Brown
7th: SS l WaDi
7th: EM l Elegant
9th: CLG l VoiD
9th: IMT l ANTi
9th: Captain Zack
9th: K9Sbruce
13th: Ito
13th: Abadango
13th: Zenyou
13th: Phoenix

I only counted secondaries who took a game (or more!!)

x3
x3
x2
x2
x2
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1

@Das Koopa, here you go.

bruh, I literally just made a post like yours above you

 

[Laken64]

TDK ANTi used against WaDi in both game 1 and 2 before switching to . (Although he didn't win a game I just wanted to know if was because you didn't know he used him).

 

[FeelMeUp]

We're going to need to talk more extensively about Olimar pretty soon.

 

[TDK]

bruh, I literally just made a post like yours above you

Mine has top 16 ordered rankings, whereas yours is the number of characters. Mine is also exclusively top 16 whereas yours is wider.

TDK ANTi used against WaDi in both game 1 and 2 before switching to . (Although he didn't win a game I just wanted to know if was because you didn't know he used him).

Substitute is because I never know who ANTi used besides Mario. Did ANTi win a game with any other character this entire tournament?

 

[Aaron1997]

@BSP Yep, Just like at Big House he used Hydrant to much and no Trampoline

Edit: https://twitter.com/SS_S_C_B/status/779922700667981824
This is not good

 

[Fenny]

@BSP Yep, Just like at Big House he used Hydrant to much and no Trampoline

Edit: https://twitter.com/SS_S_C_B/status/779922700667981824
This is not good

No sponsor means that travelling abroad is probaby taking more out of him then what tournament payouts can put back in his pocket, so I don't really blame him.

Would be really unfortunate tho.

 

[Drifting]

Well, I don't see any big discussion happening so let's start up a discussion about a new character shall we.

Bowser, Notable players: Nick Riddle, LordMix, Boozer, le Troof, Ash23, Exist

So yeah, let's talk about King Koopa himself. Results, Tech, Matchups, Killing options (lol), Combos. All are welcome for discussion.


< Not Bowser

 

[G. Stache]

I don't mean to change the subject much, but can we please go back to Nairo's Lucina vs Zero's Diddy? At first, I only thought that Nairo was using Lucina because of fan service or something. For instance, there were a few times when Marth would have had a lot easier of a time, most noticeably when Nairo was hitting Zero with well spaced aerials, but Zero was still living at 120+% (there was one point where Nairo had to finish off Zero with an u throw at around 163%). But the more I watched the set, the more I saw the possible reason why Lucina was picked over Marth (or was just a pretty big coincidence). Nairo was handling Diddy's banana really well, and there's one specific combo that got my attention: banana to f smash. Like seriously, Nairo didn't land it too often (he landed it 2-3 times during the set, and managed to hit the banana a few times, but whiffed the f smash). But this set up was killing Zero at around 90% and is one thing I don't think Marth can do (someone correct me on this, but there seemed to be a reason why Nairo always went right next to Zero when he performed this). So, a few questions for discussion:
1. Is this a true, consistent combo for Lucina?
2. Can Marth potentially do the same thing, but land tippered f smash instead? (because if it's not a tippered f smash, it's just outclassed by Lucina's setup) Or is this just a Lucina thing?
3. If this is a true consistent combo and a Lucina thing, how could this affect the Diddy/Lucina MU?

Also, on another note: Elegant was insane last night. I'd love to see this man travel more, Luigi's results need his love. If someone could show me the sets vs Abadango and Void, that'd be really cool.

 

[Drifting]

I don't mean to change the subject much, but can we please go back to Nairo's Lucina vs Zero's Diddy? At first, I only thought that Nairo was using Lucina because of fan service or something. For instance, there were a few times when Marth would have had a lot easier of a time, most noticeably when Nairo was hitting Zero with well spaced aerials, but Zero was still living at 120+% (there was one point where Nairo had to finish off Zero with an u throw at around 163%). But the more I watched the set, the more I saw the possible reason why Lucina was picked over Marth (or was just a pretty big coincidence). Nairo was handling Diddy's banana really well, and there's one specific combo that got my attention: banana to f smash. Like seriously, Nairo didn't land it too often (he landed it 2-3 times during the set, and managed to hit the banana a few times, but whiffed the f smash). But this set up was killing Zero at around 90% and is one thing I don't think Marth can do (someone correct me on this, but there seemed to be a reason why Nairo always went right next to Zero when he performed this). So, a few questions for discussion:
1. Is this a true, consistent combo for Lucina?
2. Can Marth potentially do the same thing, but land tippered f smash instead? (because if it's not a tippered f smash, it's just outclassed by Lucina's setup) Or is this just a Lucina thing?
3. If this is a true consistent combo and a Lucina thing, how could this affect the Diddy/Lucina MU?

Also, on another note: Elegant was insane last night. I'd love to see this man travel more, Luigi's results need his love. If someone could show me the sets vs Abadango and Void, that'd be really cool.

I remember reading if Marth does a glide toss banana it puts him in perfect range for tipper f-smash. idk much about Marcina though so maybe ask FamilyTeam

 

[DunnoBro]

Honestly I'm not sure how optimal Nairo's choice of Lucina over Marth was meant to be, but it does validate my theory of Lucina being better at intercepting high, fast recoveries on reaction, especially with dolphin slash due to how inside you those characters try to get while recovering. (Like diddy, fox, or other burst momentum recoveries)

@ Banana Fsmash: Marth pretty much needs the opponent to get hit at a good spot, ihe can't really control if it will tipper so Lucina seems clearly more consistent there. I do know it isn't too inconsistent for marth either way, though.

And IMO Bowser's in the same boat as ness. Good aggressive tools and easy to play, but inherent weaknesses will leave him hurting in the long run. Top 10 secondary in this meta IMO. Boasting a good mario MU and overall not needing too much MU experience overall to win lets inherent player skill take him far.

 

[ReRaze]

I don't mean to change the subject much, but can we please go back to Nairo's Lucina vs Zero's Diddy? At first, I only thought that Nairo was using Lucina because of fan service or something.

I wouldn't put too much thought into it, Nario's been known for choosing the clones, Lucina, Dr.Mario he even used Dark Pit pre-Buff. Besides I'm sure he chose her just cuz Waifu.

For instance, there were a few times when Marth would have had a lot easier of a time, most noticeably when Nairo was hitting Zero with well spaced aerials, but Zero was still living at 120+% (there was one point where Nairo had to finish off Zero with an u throw at around 163%).

Errrr in what scenarios would Marth have had an easier time killing? I don't think its fair to say that using Marth would have helped him out since for all we know he might have played Marth differently trying to space for tippers or sours and what not and each tiny interaction might have affected the way the games overall played out so we can't really compare the two side by side like that but just for discussions sake and lets say he did play Marth exactly the same way he played Lucina. I'm gonna go through all the potential kill scenarios throughout the matches.

Moves Nairo used before/to kill ZeRo.

First game: Smashville
Stock 1
-94% Near centre stage: Banana > Fsmash > Stock
Stock 2
-104% Ledge: Fthrow > SD > Stock

Second game: Duck Hunt
Stock 1
-97% Centre Stage: Bair (Unspaced)
-111% On lower platform: Uair (Unspaced)
-123% Near upper blastzone: Uair > Stock
Stock 2
-88% Centre Stage: Usmash
Zero at 107% after the hit takes the game.

Third game
Stock 1
-~100% A bunch of down throws
-118% Centre Stage: Up B
-130% Near Right Blast Zone: Dancing Blade (If he faired instead that stock would have been long gone)
aaaanddd thats what lead to Nairo having to kill with Uthrow.

Using Marth would not have helped him much in any of those scenarios. In fact It would have hindered him in taking ZeRo's first stock with the banana setup. There seems to be this running idea that if you use Marth you will have an easier time winning/killing cuz of tippers (not really pointing here). There are perks and cons to using either of them. You'd also have to consider player skill, would Nairo be as adept at landing tippers as an actual Marth main like Mr.E or Leo? idk.
If you didn't win with Lucina switching to Marth isn't gonna magically make you win either (again not directing this at you just in general from what I've seen floating around)

Now to your question Marth can land banana > tipper Fsmash but he needs to glide toss it to be able to have enough time to run/ pivot and space a tipper Fsmash. So he can't do stuff like throwing a banana down from the air > tipper fsmash like Nairo did afaik.
Although admittedly its alot easier to just do it with Lucina, its consistent and you have time to charge your Fsmash too. Whether you can consistently land the tipper depends on the Marth.

Nairo was whiffing the fsmashes because he was pre-emptively throwing them out. Marcina Fsmash is frame 10, more than enough time to see which way the opponent is launched from the banana and react accordingly. So it is a true combo and it is consistent.

I don't think it will effect the MU much if at all, I mean to use this setup you would have to be right in Diddy's face and that's not where Marth wants to be vs Diddy.
Besides if the Diddy main isn't better at handling his banana than the opponent he's pretty much guaranteed to have a rough time already

 

[FamilyTeam]

Errrr in what scenarios would Marth have had an easier time killing? I don't think its fair to say that using Marth would have helped him out since for all we know he might have played Marth differently trying to space for tippers or sours and what not and each tiny interaction might have affected the way the games overall played out so we can't really compare the two side by side like that but just for discussions sake and lets say he did play Marth exactly the same way he played Lucina. I'm gonna go through all the potential kill scenarios throughout the matches.

Moves Nairo used before/to kill ZeRo.

First game: Smashville
Stock 1
-94% Near centre stage: Banana > Fsmash > Stock
Stock 2
-104% Ledge: Fthrow > SD > Stock

Second game: Duck Hunt
Stock 1
-97% Centre Stage: Bair (Unspaced)
-111% On lower platform: Uair (Unspaced)
-123% Near upper blastzone: Uair > Stock
Stock 2
-88% Centre Stage: Usmash
Zero at 107% after the hit takes the game.

Third game
Stock 1
-~100% A bunch of down throws
-118% Centre Stage: Up B
-130% Near Right Blast Zone: Dancing Blade (If he faired instead that stock would have been long gone)
aaaanddd thats what lead to Nairo having to kill with Uthrow.

Using Marth would not have helped him much in any of those scenarios. In fact It would have hindered him in taking ZeRo's first stock with the banana setup. There seems to be this running idea that if you use Marth you will have an easier time winning/killing cuz of tippers (not really pointing here). There are perks and cons to using either of them. You'd also have to consider player skill, would Nairo be as adept at landing tippers as an actual Marth main like Mr.E or Leo? idk.
If you didn't win with Lucina switching to Marth isn't gonna magically make you win either (again not directing this at you just in general from what I've seen floating around)

Now to your question Marth can land banana > tipper Fsmash but he needs to glide toss it to be able to have enough time to run/ pivot and space a tipper Fsmash. So he can't do stuff like throwing a banana down from the air > tipper fsmash like Nairo did afaik.
Although admittedly its alot easier to just do it with Lucina, its consistent and you have time to charge your Fsmash too. Whether you can consistently land the tipper depends on the Marth.

Nairo was whiffing the fsmashes because he was pre-emptively throwing them out. Marcina Fsmash is frame 10, more than enough time to see which way the opponent is launched from the banana and react accordingly. So it is a true combo and it is consistent.

I don't think it will effect the MU much if at all, I mean to use this setup you would have to be right in Diddy's face and that's not where Marth wants to be vs Diddy.
Besides if the Diddy main isn't better at handling his banana than the opponent he's pretty much guaranteed to have a rough time already

Aye, thanks. That was basically what I was gonna try to explain, but I think you worded it better than I could.
Yeah, people kinda need to stop the notion that "it probably would have KOd earlier with Marth" when the opposite happens a lot, too, and it specially happened in that set with the FSmashes.

 

[Illuminose]

Sumabato 13 (221 entrants)

1st: HIKARU
2nd: Fuwa
3rd: SH
4th: Shogun
5th: FILIP
5th: Earth
7th: DIO
7th: Masashi
9th: Nau
9th: Gomamugitya
9th: Tatsutsuyo
9th: Aki
13th: Ako
13th: Oisiitofu
13th: Edge
13th: Ginko

Fox ended up doing well in more than just Larry Lurr this weekend. Also, HIKARU and Fuwa put on a real show to 1st and 2nd place respectively, this being the highest placement ever for both. DIO makes the first Yoshi in top 8 for a while. And Edge is back to Sheik, which hopefully means we'll see better things from him now.

TDK ANTi, in addition to Mario in his other sets, used MK and Diddy to beat SlayerZ. Don't believe he used any other characters.

 

[ReRaze]

Sumabato 13 (221 entrants)

1st: HIKARU
2nd: Fuwa
3rd: SH
4th: Shogun
5th: FILIP
5th: Earth
7th: DIO
7th: Masashi
9th: Nau
9th: Gomamugitya
9th: Tatsutsuyo
9th: Aki
13th: Ako
13th: Oisiitofu
13th: Edge
13th: Ginko

Fox ended up doing well in more than just Larry Lurr this weekend. Also, HIKARU and Fuwa put on a real show to 1st and 2nd place respectively, this being the highest placement ever for both. DIO makes the first Yoshi in top 8 for a while. And Edge is back to Sheik, which hopefully means we'll see better things from him now.

TDK ANTi, in addition to Mario in his other sets, used MK and Diddy to beat SlayerZ. Don't believe he used any other characters.

I Think its worth mentioning Fuwa used since she used her throughout winners finals and grand finals.

 

[G. Stache]

I wouldn't put too much thought into it, Nario's been known for choosing the clones, Lucina, Dr.Mario he even used Dark Pit pre-Buff. Besides I'm sure he chose her just cuz Waifu.



Errrr in what scenarios would Marth have had an easier time killing? I don't think its fair to say that using Marth would have helped him out since for all we know he might have played Marth differently trying to space for tippers or sours and what not and each tiny interaction might have affected the way the games overall played out so we can't really compare the two side by side like that but just for discussions sake and lets say he did play Marth exactly the same way he played Lucina. I'm gonna go through all the potential kill scenarios throughout the matches.

Moves Nairo used before/to kill ZeRo.

First game: Smashville
Stock 1
-94% Near centre stage: Banana > Fsmash > Stock
Stock 2
-104% Ledge: Fthrow > SD > Stock

Second game: Duck Hunt
Stock 1
-97% Centre Stage: Bair (Unspaced)
-111% On lower platform: Uair (Unspaced)
-123% Near upper blastzone: Uair > Stock
Stock 2
-88% Centre Stage: Usmash
Zero at 107% after the hit takes the game.

Third game
Stock 1
-~100% A bunch of down throws
-118% Centre Stage: Up B
-130% Near Right Blast Zone: Dancing Blade (If he faired instead that stock would have been long gone)
aaaanddd thats what lead to Nairo having to kill with Uthrow.

Using Marth would not have helped him much in any of those scenarios. In fact It would have hindered him in taking ZeRo's first stock with the banana setup. There seems to be this running idea that if you use Marth you will have an easier time winning/killing cuz of tippers (not really pointing here). There are perks and cons to using either of them. You'd also have to consider player skill, would Nairo be as adept at landing tippers as an actual Marth main like Mr.E or Leo? idk.
If you didn't win with Lucina switching to Marth isn't gonna magically make you win either (again not directing this at you just in general from what I've seen floating around)

Now to your question Marth can land banana > tipper Fsmash but he needs to glide toss it to be able to have enough time to run/ pivot and space a tipper Fsmash. So he can't do stuff like throwing a banana down from the air > tipper fsmash like Nairo did afaik.
Although admittedly its alot easier to just do it with Lucina, its consistent and you have time to charge your Fsmash too. Whether you can consistently land the tipper depends on the Marth.

Nairo was whiffing the fsmashes because he was pre-emptively throwing them out. Marcina Fsmash is frame 10, more than enough time to see which way the opponent is launched from the banana and react accordingly. So it is a true combo and it is consistent.

I don't think it will effect the MU much if at all, I mean to use this setup you would have to be right in Diddy's face and that's not where Marth wants to be vs Diddy.
Besides if the Diddy main isn't better at handling his banana than the opponent he's pretty much guaranteed to have a rough time already

Ah, okay. Thanks for the info, and the fantastic explanation. Also, I didn't mean to be one of those people who assume Marth is better in every situation, so I'm sorry about that. The raw statistics really help . One question though while I still have your attention: looking at the Diddy/Marcina MU, by the time game 4 happened and Zero shook off the surprise factor of Lucina coming out, it looked pretty rough for Lucina. Can you explain how this MU goes? I'm pretty interested to hear how Lucina (and Marth) wants to approach this MU.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Ah, okay. Thanks for the info, and I didn't mean to be one of those people who assume Marth is better in every situation. The raw statistics really help . One question though while I still have your attention: looking at the Diddy/Marcina MU, by the time game 4 happened and Zero shook off the surprise factor of Lucina coming out, it looked pretty rough for Lucina. Can you explain how this MU goes? I'm pretty interested to hear how Lucina (and Marth) wants to approach this MU.

Diddy tends to have an easier time with Marth and Lucina because he is a small target that can constantly get up close with them and work around their range. He also has the banana and the pop gun to add projectile pressure to them which they despise. They have a really bad Dash-to-shield that makes it hard for them to deal with this stuff.
However, regarding Zero adapting to Lucina: Yes, although that definitely was the case (because if it wasn't he would have gotten 2-stocked 3 times), Nairo wasn't adapting back. His Lucina was clearly pretty rough around the edges seeing how he wasn't spacing all that spectacularly, he'd often throw out commital moves like Side Smashes and Dolphin Slashes at random and get punished hard for it, and he didn't Counter once even when sometimes Zero's choices looked obvious.
However, you must take into account that even with that, he still went crazy far with her. Definitely makes me look at this MU a different way, even though I still believe this is 45:55.
Where is the match?
Here is the match.

 

[Megamang]

Man, if only Rich Brown only liked Olimar in this game. It'd really help with Diddy.


That said... is m2 v diddy that bad? Can we talk about this?

Diddy hates being outcamped. Shadow ball is an amazing camp tool, its frame data is actually pretty insane and seems like yet another sm4sh rule he breaks in exchange for his physics. His reflector is ok, Diddy's item plan can punish anyone for their down frames on a reflector with his BnB since when he closes distance he demands a guess for a successful reflect at close range.


If m2 can consistently break dtilt usmash, or even semi consistently ala fox, he seems to have a good chance. Its especially helpful that his combos push you offstage, often ending with a nair dtilt fair near the ledge which then demands diddy get back v mewtwo.

The MU is certainly difficult. M2 cant do lots of his stuff (dtilt/fair get outspaced and punished by banana toss) that most of the cast has to just kinda work around/rely on superior punish.

But diddy also lacks burst kill potential that other top tiers abuse m2 with.


Idk, most of the time when i watch a losing MU I can sense the oppression. With this one, i dont see it. Ive played it both sides too, since having this feeling. Id love to be proven wrong, consistent punish V m2 is pretty valuable and if it comes down to that... ok then.

 

[meticulousboy]

I wouldn't put too much thought into it, Nario's been known for choosing the clones, Lucina, Dr.Mario he even used Dark Pit pre-Buff. Besides I'm sure he chose her just cuz Waifu.



Errrr in what scenarios would Marth have had an easier time killing? I don't think its fair to say that using Marth would have helped him out since for all we know he might have played Marth differently trying to space for tippers or sours and what not and each tiny interaction might have affected the way the games overall played out so we can't really compare the two side by side like that but just for discussions sake and lets say he did play Marth exactly the same way he played Lucina. I'm gonna go through all the potential kill scenarios throughout the matches.

Moves Nairo used before/to kill ZeRo.

First game: Smashville
Stock 1
-94% Near centre stage: Banana > Fsmash > Stock
Stock 2
-104% Ledge: Fthrow > SD > Stock

Second game: Duck Hunt
Stock 1
-97% Centre Stage: Bair (Unspaced)
-111% On lower platform: Uair (Unspaced)
-123% Near upper blastzone: Uair > Stock
Stock 2
-88% Centre Stage: Usmash
Zero at 107% after the hit takes the game.

Third game
Stock 1
-~100% A bunch of down throws
-118% Centre Stage: Up B
-130% Near Right Blast Zone: Dancing Blade (If he faired instead that stock would have been long gone)
aaaanddd thats what lead to Nairo having to kill with Uthrow.

Using Marth would not have helped him much in any of those scenarios. In fact It would have hindered him in taking ZeRo's first stock with the banana setup. There seems to be this running idea that if you use Marth you will have an easier time winning/killing cuz of tippers (not really pointing here). There are perks and cons to using either of them. You'd also have to consider player skill, would Nairo be as adept at landing tippers as an actual Marth main like Mr.E or Leo? idk.
If you didn't win with Lucina switching to Marth isn't gonna magically make you win either (again not directing this at you just in general from what I've seen floating around)

Now to your question Marth can land banana > tipper Fsmash but he needs to glide toss it to be able to have enough time to run/ pivot and space a tipper Fsmash. So he can't do stuff like throwing a banana down from the air > tipper fsmash like Nairo did afaik.
Although admittedly its alot easier to just do it with Lucina, its consistent and you have time to charge your Fsmash too. Whether you can consistently land the tipper depends on the Marth.

Nairo was whiffing the fsmashes because he was pre-emptively throwing them out. Marcina Fsmash is frame 10, more than enough time to see which way the opponent is launched from the banana and react accordingly. So it is a true combo and it is consistent.

I don't think it will effect the MU much if at all, I mean to use this setup you would have to be right in Diddy's face and that's not where Marth wants to be vs Diddy.
Besides if the Diddy main isn't better at handling his banana than the opponent he's pretty much guaranteed to have a rough time already

It may help to put the rage percents. If it's below 35%, then it's no rage. Because, you know, rage skews results.

 

[RonNewcomb]

Shulla-bra VIII (115 Entrants)

1. Shuton
2. Hiro
3. Chanshu
4. FILIP
5. 9B
5.Yamanyon
7.bt.yamato
7. SA
9. Kome
9. Paru
9. Sushi
9. Lagnel
13.Buizuzuki
13. Enpitsu
13. K-Shin
13. Woolley

Filip used against the

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's good to see Luigi back on the map via Elegance and Ron doing well recently.

People underrate the character just as much as they used to overrate him pre-nerf. He's still a pretty solid character, especially as a secondary.


It's also good to see US Mewtwo players catching up. Abadango's Mewtwo is good but it's not all there is to the character.

 

[DunnoBro]

Prepatch luigi was underrated too lol That character wasn't even considered top 10. With how things are right now he'd probably be #1. Even the m2 matchup would be free. (Killing around 60-70 with rage)

 

[DunnoBro]

That said... is m2 v diddy that bad? Can we talk about this?

It's not. M2 has every tool to deal with diddy, tbh I think m2s just aren't used to getting kill confirmed off mistakes generally safe in almost all other mus.

Edit: Bah double post how'd that happen

 

[Yonder]

Prepatch luigi was underrated too lol That character wasn't even considered top 10. With how things are right now he'd probably be #1. Even the m2 matchup would be free. (Killing around 60-70 with rage)

No way he'd be #1 now. He would have to contend with Cloud who dominate him everywhere sides offstage prone to being gimped, then you have Rosalina who gives him a hard time. I don't think Luigi would fare well vs Sheik either, he just happened to get an upset vs Void's Sheik. But top 5 would be feasible. He would hurt Mario, Fox, and Diddy a lot with pre patch D throw. Luigi has random mid tier troubles that aren't too relevant (Mac, Rob). Greninja though is tough for Luigi if he is on the rise.

I do think current Luigi is a bit underrated. Not by much, still an upper mid...but not at the bottom of his rank like he is now. I think he shows more promise than ROB and Dark Pit at least.

 

[TDK]

Glitch 2 Top 8 : 196 entrants.

1st: SS l Mr. E
2nd: VGBC l Pink Fresh
3rd: Tweek
4th: GOTE l 8BitMan
5th: HO3K l John Numbers
5th: IQHQ l Raptor
7th: 7S l Puppeh
7th: Feel Tension
9th: Promaelia
9th: JeBB
9th: DunnoBro
9th: VeXx l Seagull Joe ( )
13th: Dingus Joe
13th: Mekos
13th: LoF l False
13th: Circa l 6WX

x2
x2
x2
x2
x2
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1

@Das Koopa

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Glitch 2 Top 8 (In progress): 196 entrants.

Winners:
Pink Fresh
Mr. E
8BitMan
Tweek

Losers:
Puppeh
Raptor
John Numbers
Tension

9th:
Promaelia ???
JeBB
DunnoBro (I think? DunnoBro can correct me if I'm wrong)
Seagull Joe

13th:
Dingus Joe ???
Mekos
False
6WX

Promaelia uses Corrin and Palutena.

 

[DunnoBro]

No way he'd be #1 now. He would have to contend with Cloud who dominate him everywhere sides offstage prone to being gimped, then you have Rosalina who gives him a hard time. I don't think Luigi would fare well vs Sheik either, he just happened to get an upset vs Void's Sheik. But top 5 would be feasible. He would hurt Mario, Fox, and Diddy a lot with pre patch D throw. Luigi has random mid tier troubles that aren't too relevant (Mac, Rob). Greninja though is tough for Luigi if he is on the rise.

Luigi with old dthrow, cyclone, AND fireballs would be fine vs current sheik since fireballs now share needle range. People forget his neutral was wayyy better when you couldn't shield fireballs.

Rosa and cloud could be issues, but his raw kill potential would likely keep those even. (With prepatch fireballs I can't see cloud being too bad)

TDK : I went all mario. Forfeited to raptor after losing to PF. Too salty about only losing to DLC lately. Feels like fighting prepatch luigi.

Dingus Joe uses GnW. Won his pools with game 3 double 9 lol

 

[Shady Shaymin]

I had a post about M2 vs Diddy and why it's not as bad as people say it is a while back. I still stand by that point. I also think proper stage choice is super important here, M2 probably has an easier time on flat stages bc he can zone more easily.

Generally, when a character has a solid gameplan without any glaring holes or flaws, matchups tend to never be seriously in one character's favor. I think of all the well rounded, generally solid characters (mario, diddy, fox, sheik) and it's interesting how they all more or less go even with one another. It's always the more extreme character designs (M2, Rosa, Cloud, Megaman) where matchups tend to be more one-sided or polarizing.

On the topic of matchups and top tiers, I do have a serious question. In the current top tier landscape, who does ZSS solidly beat? We know her explosive punishes basically let her compete with anyone, and we also know that she ****s all over heavies. But out of all of the top tier matchups in this meta, who can we say she legitimately beats? Almost all of the top tiers have the neutral game to contest her pressure. Some even have such good neutrals that they have an advantage over her despite her volatility (Diddy, Sheik to a lesser extent). Who does ZSS beat on paper? Fox, since he gets combo'd and gimped hard? Rosa bc she can kill Luma well? Maybe M2 because he's so big?

 

[DunnoBro]

On the topic of matchups and top tiers, I do have a serious question. In the current top tier landscape, who does ZSS solidly beat? We know her explosive punishes basically let her compete with anyone, and we also know that she ****s all over heavies. But out of all of the top tier matchups in this meta, who can we say she legitimately beats? Almost all of the top tiers have the neutral game to contest her pressure. Some even have such good neutrals that they have an advantage over her despite her volatility (Diddy, Sheik to a lesser extent). Who does ZSS beat on paper? Fox, since he gets combo'd and gimped hard? Rosa bc she can kill Luma well? Maybe M2 because he's so big?

Rosa maybe. I know dabuz considered it 30-70 prepatch, can't imagine it got toooo much better. Sonics dont like the mu either since she's one of the more proficient characters at challenging spindash.

She's pretty fair unless you're a superheavy imo

 

[Fenny]

Glitch 2 Top 8 (In progress): 196 entrants.

Still Alive
Winners:
Pink Fresh
Mr. E
8BitMan
Tweek

Losers:
Raptor
John Numbers

7th:
Puppeh
Feel Tension

9th:
Promaelia
JeBB
DunnoBro
Seagull Joe

13th:
Dingus Joe
Mekos
False
6WX

If someone could tell me who Dingus Joe uses, that'd be great.

Who did False and 6WX lose to?

 

[Deleted member]

Glitch 2 Top 8 (In progress): 196 entrants.

Still Alive
Winners:
Pink Fresh
Mr. E
8BitMan
Tweek

Losers:
Raptor
John Numbers

7th:
Puppeh
Feel Tension

9th:
Promaelia
JeBB
DunnoBro
Seagull Joe

13th:
Dingus Joe
Mekos
False
6WX

If someone could tell me who Dingus Joe uses, that'd be great.

Two Lucas players in top 16 is pretty damn awesome. The character has done exceedingly well this year.

 

[TDK]

Who did False and 6WX lose to?

False lost to Raptor and 6WX lost to Puppeh.

 

[Fenny]

False lost to Raptor and 6WX lost to Puppeh.

Oh wow

Puppeh has so much potential, to be beating one of the best Sonic players in the world at this age.

 

[Sinister Slush]

DIO top 8 at a recent sumabato and Raptor doing pretty well at Glitch 2 with top 6 so far.
I'd say this is a decent weekend for Yoshi. Not sure who else Raptor defeated to get here outside of False and Puppeh, who defeated 6wx to fight raptor for 5th but still bretty gud performance.

 

[Yikarur]

Glitch 2 Top 8 (In progress): 196 entrants.

Still Alive
Winners:
Pink Fresh
Tweek

Losers:
Raptor
John Numbers
8BitMan
Mr. E

7th:
Puppeh
Feel Tension

9th:
Promaelia
JeBB
DunnoBro
Seagull Joe

13th:
Dingus Joe
Mekos
False
6WX

If someone could tell me who Dingus Joe uses, that'd be great.

good job not mentioning on which stream it's prodcasted

 

[Fenny]

Pink Fresh 3-2 Mr. E

Pink really clutched it out. That last game was terrifying - and it shows how scary Pink's offensive capabilities with Bayo are. Mr. E literally had a full stock lead on Pink, and with one mistake Pink not only vaporised that lead but straight up overtook him by a good 50%+.

Yikarur it's VGBOOTCAMP

 

[TDK]

Glitch 2 Top 8 : 196 entrants.

1st: SS l Mr. E
2nd: VGBC l Pink Fresh
3rd: Tweek
4th: GOTE l 8BitMan
5th: HO3K l John Numbers
5th: IQHQ l Raptor
7th: 7S l Puppeh
7th: Feel Tension
9th: Promaelia
9th: JeBB
9th: DunnoBro
9th: VeXx l Seagull Joe
13th: Dingus Joe
13th: Mekos
13th: LoF l False
13th: Circa l 6WX

x2
x2
x2
x2
x2
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1

@Das Koopa

And with this, Glitch 2 singles are done! Congrats to Mr. E!

 

[JayE]

Lets go Mr. E with his biggest win of his career!! Amazing, that was a crazy close Grand Finals set.

 

[Fenny]

And with this, Glitch 2 singles are done! Congrats to Mr. E!

Game 10 last hit situation, dear lord that was close.

Good on Mr. E, love seeing Marths do well

 

[JayE]

Pink Fresh also played super good. I honestly didn't think Mr. E could do it at first, but after he reset the bracket and winning 3 straight games, I just knew he would be able pull out the W.

 

[DunnoBro]

Once he reset it I knew he could do it. Still was too close lol