Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Locke 06]

Where can you find VODs for Don't Park on the Grass Smash 4 Top 8? Can't seem to find it anywhere on YouTube.

Endgame has not put them up yet. Holidays + a ton of mess with the streams = delayed vods for smash 4.

Endgametv2 has it in their twitch profile as highlights. Along with other day2 matches.

 

[|RK|]

You know, the other day Dabuz was explaining the difference between himself and some other Rosa main, and he said that one player played the character more, while he (Dabuz) played the game more. I notice that's true of a lot of top players, and that's probably why matchups become less relevant at the top level. That said, are there any top players that are actually at the peak of their characters' metagame on top of having great fundamentals?

Example - Ally is not such a player, since Zenyou is widely believed to have the greater mastery over Mario the character. MK Leo could be, since he seems like he knows and capitalizes on Marth's every option (of course, there may be a Marth main that believes otherwise - I'm not a Marth expert).

EDIT: ZeRo also isn't it, since Zinoto is widely believed to have the better mastery of Diddy the character.

 

[ARISTOS]

You know, the other day Dabuz was explaining the difference between himself and some other Rosa main, and he said that one player played the character more, while he (Dabuz) played the game more. I notice that's true of a lot of top players, and that's probably why matchups become less relevant at the top level. That said, are there any top players that are actually at the peak of their characters' metagame on top of having great fundamentals?

Example - Ally is not such a player, since Zenyou is widely believed to have the greater mastery over Mario the character. MK Leo could be, since he seems like he knows and capitalizes on Marth's every option (of course, there may be a Marth main that believes otherwise - I'm not a Marth expert).

EDIT: ZeRo also isn't it, since Zinoto is widely believed to have the better mastery of Diddy the character.

Kameme for
It seems like Void and Mr. R are different halves of the meta.
Ranai with

 

[FeelMeUp]

I think a comment on Reddit described the different halves of VoiD and Mr. R perfectly.
When you play Mr. R you think "How am I supposed to get off the ledge? How do you even hit this guy?" His spacing is immaculate and he has some of the best rolls and neutral decisions of all top players.
But, again, he's the worst top player at killing by far because of his Infinite Neutral Syndrome so you can just Smash 4 him more often than not.

When you play VoiD you think "How am I supposed to stop this guy from hitting me? Why do those moves link together? Did I just die?" He's probably top 3 at killing out of all the top players(Leo, VoiD, Nairo HM Aba) and has the SoCal trait of extending his hits crazy far off one neutral win.

 

[Vyrnx]

The G4 seedings were released and I'm pretty sure this is an accurate representation of the actual top 16 in Smash 4 right now:

ZeRo, Leo, Larry, Ally, Void, Nairo, Komo, ANTi, Aba, Dabuz, R, Kameme, Ranai, Marss, Salem, Tweek.

Of course the ordering of the seeding isn't necessarily entirely correct, but if someone were to list the top 16 smash players right now, it'd look pretty close to that, and all of those 16 are going to be there. G4 is amazingly stacked.

The character diversity amongst the top players is fantastic. It just so happened as the game progressed that there are very few repeat characters among the game's top players. Judging by that list and those players' most played characters:

x2
x2
x2
x2
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1

We will probably see Sonic from Komo and Olimar from Dabuz, and might see MK from Leo and Bowser from Nairo. Counting those, the top 16 players are repping a total of 16 different characters. The fact that the top players can and have have spread themselves out over a sizable portion of the cast is something I really appreciate about Smash 4.

For that matter, Japan's top player character diversity is pretty crazy. Going off of the JAPAN Power Rankings, their top 25 players main 22 different characters.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Hopefully Esam continues doing as good as he has been, I'd love to see him be called a top 16 player again without any question about it

 

[Yikarur]

PPTWinter is live on www.twitch.tv/geekygoonsquad starring Larry Lurr for the first time in germany!

 

[Shady Shaymin]

What distinguishes Zinoto and ZeRo's Diddy play from one another? I haven't seen enough Zinoto sets to form an opinion. On a side note, are there any notable aggressive Diddys in the metagame right now or do they all emulate ZeRo's defensive low-risk playstyle?

 

[verbatim]

They both play pretty defensively, zinoto has some cool footstool jablock stuff but I haven't seen him do it in top 48.

I don't really see zero go for angel drop much so if zinoto does that could also be a difference.

 

[Das Koopa]

G4 teams:

Spoiler: Mexico/Canada/Europe

Ally
Mr. R
MKLeo
Javi
Locus
S1
Regi
Captain L
Big D
IC
Chag
Bedgar

Spoiler: United States

ZeRo
Nairo
Larry Lurr
ANTi
Dabuz
Salem
VoiD
Samsora
Tweek
Mr. E

Alternate:
Ito
Marss

Spoiler: Japan

Ranai
Komorikiri
Abadango
Kameme
Nietono
9B
Earth
You3
Ri-ma
Umeki

Alternate:
RAIN
OCEAN

 

[Yikarur]

PPTWinter so far:

Winners Final: cyve vs. Larry
Loser Quarters: wusi > Sodrek (Fox mirror op)
now: Destany (Little Mac!!) vs. Luigi player

Everyone is so hype about Destany.

 

[MachoCheeze]

PPTWinter so far:

Winners Final: cyve vs. Larry
Loser Quarters: wusi > Sodrek (Fox mirror op)
now: Destany (Little Mac!!) vs. Luigi player

Everyone is so hype about Destany.

He had a few last hit games with cyve and just 3-0'd Luigi Player beating his Mewtwo on Duck Hunt of all stages.

This dude is a legend.

 

[FeelMeUp]

I'm expecting Larry to lose this if cyve plays all Bayo. Hope that isn't the case, though.

 

[TDK]

Cyve took Larry to game 5, at least. His Bayo went down 2-1 and he pulled out Diddy and brought it back to game 5.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Would've won if not for the mistimed dair spike near the end. Could've killed Larry sub 10%.
That's a shame.

 

[Yikarur]

That spike attempt could've sealed the set. So closeee

 

[Laken64]

What distinguishes Zinoto and ZeRo's Diddy play from one another? I haven't seen enough Zinoto sets to form an opinion. On a side note, are there any notable aggressive Diddys in the metagame right now or do they all emulate ZeRo's defensive low-risk playstyle?

Zinoto is more technical (if that makes sense) and trys implementing tech like footstool combos at 0 and other stuff like this:
https://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=2cwbjl6ya#/watch?v=CipVvVGKu90

 

[Aaron1997]

Stacked Japanese tourney tonight on SHI-Gaming FT. Aba,Ranai,Choco,Earth,KEN,Kurihara and More!!!
http://challonge.com/SGCJT

Projected early top level match-ups that exsist because of people losing in pools

Round 2 winners

Tvs Nietono
Kuriharavs Umeki
Rainvs Brood

Round 3 winners
Chocovs Songn
Abadangovs Pichi
Kurovs Raito

Its your last chance to get a preview of all the peeps going to G4

 

[Das Koopa]

Samsora 2-1 Dyr, 2-1 ESAM, in Top 12/8 at Smash Conference LXIX

 

[JB333]

Smashton: the big bang (United Kingdom, 62 entrants) https://smash.gg/tournament/smashton-the-big-bang/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/97993


1. iamaho
2. Willz
3. Afro Smash
4. Zone
5. Magi
5. KEIKUNz
7. MegaBit
7. Zamasu


Not a major tourney but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[Aaron1997]

At SGC
Round 2 winners
T>Nietono 2-1
Brood>Rain 2-0
Kameme >Pon 2-1
MasaRotom>Abadango2-1
Earth>Tsu-2-1
bAhuto>Raito2-0
Umeki>Kiruhara 2-1

 

[Rizen]

G4 teams:

Spoiler: Mexico/Canada/Europe

Ally
Mr. R
MKLeo
Javi
Locus
S1
Regi
Captain L
Big D
IC
Chag
Bedgar

Spoiler: United States

ZeRo
Nairo
Larry Lurr
ANTi
Dabuz
Salem
VoiD
Samsora
Tweek
Mr. E

Alternate:
Ito
Marss

Spoiler: Japan

Ranai
Komorikiri
Abadango
Kameme
Nietono
9B
Earth
You3
Ri-ma
Umeki

Alternate:
RAIN
OCEAN

I'd say the USA has this but somehow Japan always manages to win crew battles.

 

[Aaron1997]

Round 3 winners
Mao>T 2-0
Brood> Umeki2-0

In losers
Tosshi>Nietono 2-0

 

[KenMeister]

Goddammit, Nietono is falling off again. lol

 

[|RK|]

And so, we have the conversation about Mario vs Luigi not a day before...

James beats Ally 3-2.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

James 3-2Ally eliminating ally in top 8

 

[Yonder]

Midwest Mayhem 6

James 3-2 Ally in a very close set
. It really showed how even the matchup can be, with Mario having insane ledge trapping on Luigi, but Luigi generally gives Mario a hard time on stage.

 

[420quickscoper]

Kisha 2-1 Ranai
Kisha is 4-1 against Ranai in games. Pretty smart Bowser I must say.

 

[teddystalin]

Mao 2-0 Kameme
Choco 2-1/(?) Earth
Lea2-1Kameme

Japan is up to its old tricks

Edit: And for his worst-ever placement...

Tosshi 2-1Ranai


WHAT KIND OF VILLAGER HAS A HEAVY PROBLEM

 

[Yonder]

Elegant 3-2 CaptainZack

Luigi is really putting in work at Midwest Mayhem!

 

[Nathan Richardson]

I seriously need to watch this Tosshi and take notes, he beat a villager user and a diddy kong/sheik user? What? As a zard main when someone does that even in losers bracket that's noteworthy.

 

[Das Koopa]

December record, analysis/database update coming tonight/tomorrow:

Week 1:

Spoiler

UGC Smash Open (December 2nd-4thth) (Midwest) (205 Entrants) (Category 3)
1st: ZeRo
2nd: Abadango ,
3rd: ESAM
4th: Nairo ,
5th: Mr. E
5th: VoiD
7th: Larry Lurr ,
7th: Captain Zack
9th: DarkShad
9th: Mr. R
9th: Marss
9th: Ally
13th: MKLeo , ,
13th: ANTi ,
13th: Ryuga
13th: Kameme


Breakout 7 (December 3rd) (Midwest) (93 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Rayquaza07
2nd: Eureka
3rd: Boobear
4th: Linus ,
5th: King James
5th: Smasher1001 ,
7th: Ozone
7th: LOE1
9th: Runes
9th: Daybreak
9th: LouRich
9th: Regralht
13th: Meek
13th: Komota
13th: Kasper
13th: SETHsational ,

Hail Smash VII (December 3rd) (Mexico) (90 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Javi ,
2nd: Serge ,
3rd: Pollo
4th: Richi ,
5th: D-Chag
5th: FuerzaDON
7th: CloudY
7th: Yura
9th: Richy
9th: Dano
9th: Simi
9th: And
13th: K40Z
13th: Salva
13th: BryanZ
13th: ShujoSLX


SXC 2016 (December 3rd-4th) (Australia) (88 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Duon ,
2nd: Ignis ,
3rd: Boozer
4th: Jdizzle
5th: Ghost ,
5th: Yehya
7th: Nothing
7th: Extra ,
9th: Waveguider ,
9th: Snugs
9th: Pudge
9th: Haiku
13th: Spewis
13th: Saber
13th: Vasi
13th: Quen

TGM 9 (December 3rd-4th) (South) (128 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: GrimTurtle ,
2nd: DKWill
3rd: TLTC
4th: Megafox
5th: Deluxemenu
5th: Gnes
7th: Aarrow
7th: Whipsy ,
9th: Twi
9th: Slaps
9th: Zult
9th: ThisGuy
13th: KJ ,
13th: Weegee
13th: Papa Wall
13th: Jerm


Gwinett Brawl December (December 3rd) (Southeast) (99 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Wrath
2nd: TheReflexWonder
3rd: LordMix
4th: SaltOne ,
5th: Player-1
5th: CC
7th: Kodystri ,
7th: Hyper
9th: Neos
9th: emBeR
9th: Hushpuppy
9th: Benny and the Jets
13th: DP’s Mario
13th: Zaheer
13th: RosaGetsFit ,
13th: CrownAether

Avalon-U VI (December 3rd) (Netherlands) (128 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: S1
2nd: Meru
3rd: LoNgh0uw
4th: Badr
5th: Patrick ,
5th: Joey
7th: Gregs ,
7th: Supahsemmie
9th: Skipper
9th: RiVer
9th: Tatuman
9th: Koyu
13th: WhYYZ
13th: ShuC
13th: Gijsbeer
13th: Cat

Week 2:

Spoiler

ConComics December 2016 (December 10th-11th) (Mexico) (156 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Wonf ,
2nd: Javi ,
3rd: Bedgar
4th: Regi Shikimi
5th: Brian
5th: Yasuo
7th: QROG
7th: Sou
9th: Eeveecario
9th: Mr. Wamu
9th: Woah JuanK
9th: Lalo
13th: Xover
13th: Ripka
13th: StrongHold
13th: SB Gera ,

Couchwarriors December Monthly (December 10th) (Australia) (110 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Ghost ,
2nd: Extra ,
3rd: Eternal
4th: Boozer
5th: Revax
5th: Nothing
7th: Snugs
7th: Duon
9th: Ignis ,
9th: Pudge
9th: Yehya
9th: Hero
13th: Saber
13th: InsertName71
13th: BIGBOSS ,
13th: Jerry Seinfeld


The Last Smash on the Hill (December 10th) (New England) (195 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Craftis
2nd: Light
3rd: Raffi-X
4th: IceArrow
5th: Waldo
5th: LingLing
7th: Kogarasuma
7th: Glare
9th: Kuma
9th: Splash Damage
9th: EPM
9th: Koolaid
13th: Sheppy
13th: Wizdorf
13th: Scot!
13th: Pelca

Smashdown: Battle Royale (December 10th) (Midwest) (134 Entrants) (Category 2)
1st: MKLeo ,
2nd: Mr. R ,
3rd: Ally
4th: Dyr
5th: Zinoto
5th: Marss
7th: IcyMist
7th: Darkshad
9th: The Great Gonzales
9th: Nick Riddle ,
9th: Pugwest
9th: Seth
13th: Ned
13th: Blacktwins ,
13th: Dath
13th: Nero


Hirosuma Tokaigi Qualifier (December 11th) (Japan) (79 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Abadango
2nd: Kome
3rd: Ron ,
4th: Shuton
5th: OCEAN
5th: Komorikiri
7th: Earth
7th: Ginko

Week 3:

Spoiler

Umebura BENQ ZOWIE Cup (December 18th) (Japan) (224 Entrants) (Category 2)
1st: Earth ,
2nd: KEN
3rd: Ryuji ,
4th: RAIN ,
5th: OCEAN
5th: Shky
7th: Raito
7th: Lea
9th: HIKARU
9th: BAhuto ,
9th: Fuwa
9th: Nyaha
13th: Umeki
13th: Choco
13th: Tsu-
13th: Kept


2GGT: ZeRo Saga (December 16th-18th) (Southwest) (361 Entrants) (Category 4)
1st: MKLeo ,
2nd: Larry Lurr
3rd: VoiD
4th: ZeRo
5th: Nairo ,
5th: Ally
7th: Komorikiri ,
7th: ANTi
9th: Dabuz ,
9th: Locus
9th: Abadango
9th: Kameme
13th: Falln
13th: Fatality
13th: Tyrant ,
13th: Tweek ,

Don’t Park on the Grass (December 17th-18th) (Pacific Northwest) (201 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: DKWill
2nd: Konga
3rd: Exodia
4th: MVD
5th: Big D ,
5th: Captain L
7th: Locke
7th: Len
9th: Focus ,
9th: ESAM
9th: Shinkou ,
9th: Deci ,
13th: EspeonCH
13th: RCS_JR
13th: Masai
13th: Pandarian

Week 4/5:

Spoiler

TSC Tokaigi Qualifiers (December 23rd) (Japan) (61 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Kare~
2nd: Haru3
3rd: Repo
4th: Earth ,
5th: Es ,
5th: Yuzu
7th: Some
7th: Maguro

S@X 182 (December 27th) (MD/VA) (124 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Wadi
2nd: Remzi
3rd: ZD
4th: Puppeh
5th: Seagull Joe
5th: Pink Fresh
7th: Jebb
7th: Tension
9th: Promaelia
9th: Black Yoshi
9th: Zephyr
9th: Dexter
13th: Pootietang
13th: Iota
13th: Broseidon
13th: Poyo

Sumabato Tokaigi Qualifiers (December 25th) (Japan) (179 Entrants) (Category 2)
1st: Ikep
2nd: Kameme ,
3rd: Shuton
4th: Gomamugitya
5th: You3
5th: Kisha
7th: Atelier
7th: Ranai
9th: Nietono ,
9th: Earth ,
9th: Lickey
9th: Mattun
13th: Mangalitza
13th: Edge
13th: HIKARU
13th: 9B

XenoFortyTwo (December 28th) (Tristate) (103 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Cassius
2nd: John Numbers ,
3rd: Dill
4th: Dekillsage ,
5th: Mr. E
5th: Edwin ,
7th: Angel Cortes
7th: Karxm
9th: Frozen
9th: Darkblues
9th: MikeKirby
9th: Bankai
13th: Waldo
13th: NickC
13th: Raptor
13th: RickyG


Ledge Gardens: Voyage (December 30th) (Southeast) (101 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: Fatality
2nd: ScAtt ,
3rd: HyperKirby
4th: TheReflexWonder
5th: Kodystri ,
5th: Wrath
7th: Lord Mix ,
7th: CC
9th: THC KDK
9th: Player-1
9th: Player-3 ,
9th: Thunderz
13th: Limbs
13th: Neos
13th: DanGR
13th: Salt One

 

[FeelMeUp]

Has anyone's opinion on changed now that the Uthrow Thunder thing being a 50/50 seems not to be correct in practice?
ESAM connects it around 105-130 with a ~90%(or higher) success rate.

 

[|RK|]

Has anyone's opinion on changed now that the Uthrow Thunder thing being a 50/50 seems not to be correct in practice?
ESAM connects it around 105-130 with a ~90%(or higher) success rate.

I still wonder why it seems like a 10% success rate when he does it on ZeRo. Can't say anything about it until I know why ZeRo doesn't get hit by it.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

A lucas and mewtwo co-main by the name of Hakii got 4th in a regional today in Texas out of 142 entrants. Bracket <https://smash.gg/tournament/surgge/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/93682/286826>
For all the matches I have seen of his today on stream he went Lucas until he lost game 1 vs Megafox, a fox main.

 

[L9999]

A lucas and mewtwo co-main by the name of Hakii got 4th in a regional today in Texas out of 142 entrants. Bracket <https://smash.gg/tournament/surgge/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/93682/286826>
For all the matches I have seen of his today on stream he went Lucas until he lost game 1 vs Megafox, a fox main.

Hakii was The Lucas main before the Taiheita hype. I thought he dropped Lucas, so it looks like he didn't.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Yeah I remember when I first heard about him at Pax South two years ago.

 

[TDK]

Will there be a VOD of Ranai vs that Charizard?

Also is it safe to call Samsora the best Peach at this point?

 

[bc1910]

Has anyone's opinion on changed now that the Uthrow Thunder thing being a 50/50 seems not to be correct in practice?
ESAM connects it around 105-130 with a ~90%(or higher) success rate.

It doesn't kill at those percents unless the opponent DIs wrong (DI the throw out, then back in for the Thunder).

Alternatively people could start not using DI on the throw at all, then using DI on the thunderspike to get on the side of Pikachu furthest from a blastzone, then finally using survival DI on the final launch. There is counterplay to Uthrow Thunder besides DI behind on Uthrow.

Plus, as others have pointed out, there are various players including ZeRo who still escape it most of the time. Maybe you need a 2-frame airdodge. Plenty of good characters have that though (Sheik, Greninja, Diddy off the top of my head).

 

[ReRaze]

I still wonder why it seems like a 10% success rate when he does it on ZeRo. Can't say anything about it until I know why ZeRo doesn't get hit by it.

ZeRo doesn't let him look at his controller~