Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
John Numbers got 5th at Glitch 2 (and 2nd in Low Tier) but that's all I can think of. I remember when people considered her mid tier and now she's almost unanimously considered low tier. John Numbers is one of her only dedicated players so that's probably why her results are kinda bad right now for the most part.
Same, I never find a hard time killing as pit.Pit has a frame 5 down smash, frame 5 up smash, frame 10 forward smash, forward facing kill throw, super armored side b, and a back air that doubles as a poke and a raw kill move.
Killing for Pit is fine.
The problem isn't Pit's kill power (which is still kinda below average). It's that he has no reliable kill confirms. When you put him up against the top tiers, they either have solid confirms (
) or they just kill earlier than he does (). MU is unbelievably frustrating. Pit can win neutral 8/10 times, but that one mistake at 60% will cost you the stock, and Pit does NOT want to be down a stock against rage Ryu.
1. How early does the down smash kill?Pit has a frame 5 down smash, frame 5 up smash, frame 10 forward smash, forward facing kill throw, super armored side b, and a back air that doubles as a poke and a raw kill move.
Killing for Pit is fine.
recently if that helps.
Yeah. Nairo won the tournament with Bowser against Pink's Lucas.
Unless you have a game where the power level is shifted in a such a way that the top/high tiers are honest while the mid tiers and lower are horribly designed (think melee kirby). But even then, are they really 'honest' in relativity to the mid tiers and lower?
Most of what Pit does is a decent commitment. He has NO safe grounded moves, and nothing faster than frame 5 on the ground surely doesn't help his CQC. Don't get me wrong, Pit does have a good neutral game, but he's not Sheik. Arrows aren't that great at keeping people out. I'm in the minority with this, but I think his up smash sucks. It doesn't connect from the sides and the first two swings have this awkward meteor hitbox that sometimes drops opponents out of it (happens the most when sharking Battlefield platforms). Dash attack is a good burst option, but the hitbox isn't that big and it's far from safe. His aerials can be good for poking at the opponent, but they must be autocanceled due to their above average landing lag. It also doesn't help that nair and fair have garbage hitboxes.
It's not about being safe with moves (generally although certain options are, mainly nair). It's about playing safe, tricky, and reactively with Pit's strong movement options to apply pressure and find an opportunity. As with the reactive stage control stuff, this is literally exactly what Earth does so you can watch any of his sets and understand what I'm saying. The amount of times Earth actually gets punished for using an unsafe option is rare because the way he plays the character doesn't require unsafe options.
This assumes anyone picked her up. Outside of John's recent Glitch 2 performance she hasn't had any outstanding results. A slew of 49ths, 33rds, and lower from a few in the US. Rin and Heavy smokers results aren't too good in japan. Wave has been playing more Wii Fit recently, and I haven't heard of any recent results from Ascwolf recently.
I think it is because Pit/Dark Pit lack things that could be deemed as "explosive" qualities, which is something that you find very often within the top tiers.Is it really that Pit's not used much because he's too "simple" or "conventional" or "too based on fundamentals" though? Cuz like those words describe
how many pockets does this man have lol
What this says to me is that using Pit means you have to actually enjoy the neutral. You can't just think of the neutral as the means to getting a combo in, or that neutral is only enjoyable when you hold all the cards in it and your opponent is SOL. It might be true that having mostly Pit-esque characters would cause the game's excitement factor to suffer, but this is supposed to be a competitive scene--I thought we would appreciate a character who is built around one of the fundamentals of fighting games.
Pit's juggle game is only top 5 if you completely forget about Rosa, Cloud, Bayonetta, Rosa, Pikachu, Mario, Ness, ZSS, and Rosa
Better than Mario, Pikachu, Ness, and probably ZSS too. Pit's juggle game is really consistent.
TheGoodGuava
Fox probably has the best juggling game, or at least on par with Rosa and ZSS.
What makes it more consistent than characters who beat airdodges, have the mobility to punish almost all landing options, and have projectiles for landing traps?
Vyrnx
Fox or Rosa I'd say, they're both broken
Mostly agree with this, but in terms of why Pit's popularity is low is most precisely:
The "honest character" idea is kind of silly to me because Pit's down-special, Guardian Orbitars, can really invalidate a few matchups in a way that doesn't really seem "honest." Simply block their recovery entirely or go on edge-off-short hop-down B if they have some way to work around it. Pit has no problem getting people off the ledge from his solid neutral either. I think the lack of Pit popularity is mostly responsible for the "honest" stereotype.
Another warrior has ascended.
Fundamentals are great and all, but a game can't survive entirely based off of them. People are constantly complaining about SFV and how limited it is, the lack of diversity, no real deepness with the game, etc... even though the game is heavily referencing back to the old street fighter. But, what's ironic about that is the fact that they tried to get rid of vortex-y gameplay, option selects, and other stuff, when classic SF had an ABUNDANCE of those features and was thoroughly loved. A game needs to be full of possibility and options to be able to last long (ST, MvC2, UMvC3, melee, KOF98, etc...).
The Sheikah would love to have you.
A character that is literally good at everything would make up for a boring game.
was good at literally everything and look how that turned out. Contradicts your Street Fighter argument as well. A point to consider is that the characters who trivialized every MU for being good at everything (Diddy, Sheik) got nerfed.
He wasn't good st everything; he was godlike at everythingA character that is literally good at everything would make up for a boring game.
Megamang
was right, Dair is really good for footstool combos :3. And this is only scratching the surface of it, you can rinse and repeat the combo there are more complicated setups, kill setups, throw setups etc. Dair itself does 10% fresh.
Ally's movement options are lackluster and he relies on reads/guesses more than anyone else.
That would be good if both Uair and Utilt didn't do like 4%. Like, Pika has to land four juggle moves just to equal one Fox Uair. Good juggling is about how much damage you can rack up on someone trying to land, not purely how long you can keep them in the air.
Thank goodness our demons are angels, then.
these days?While we're on the topic, I want to talk about the old argument that it's the player, not the character.
I feelHow does everyone feel about
It just seems like the character has really fallen off. Jonny Westside has gotten underwhelming results for months now (to the point where he's no longer even top 20 in SoCal), and we rarely see the character place high at many regionals/majors. It just seemed like early this year with 1.1.5 and all that there was this hype for her being low-mid or whatever, then it just suddenly died. There's Afro Smash over in the UK putting in work, but that's all I can think of right now. It's sad because the character does have some threatening tools for a low tier (Charge Shot demands a lot of respect, long-distanced and hard to gimp recovery, good zair, dash attack is amazing), but her weaknesses really bring down what gameplan she wants to play.
Where do you guys all think she's headed in the meta?
is similar to in a lot of ways. Both have relatively lackluster results (though MikeKirby still gets decent results to a degree), both have good aspects about them that keep them from being bottom tier (Kirby has F-Throw combos, damage output, good frame data, U-tilt, good kill power, and U-Throw), and both seemed to have had their hype days behind them. While I wouldn't go as far as to say both characters are terrible, I will say that Samus and Kirby aren't going to be relevant to the meta for a while, if ever again. We'll probably see glimpses of them, but they'll likely be relegated to either counterpicks or strictly in locals. That's just my hypothesis though.
The above resulted in this:freeziebeatz said:
