Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[C0rvus]

Meta Knight does notably well against ZSS, Pikachu, Villager, Rosalina, Ness
Is even with or slightly loses to Mario, Mewtwo, Corrin, Luigi, Bayonetta
Loses solidly to Cloud, Mega Man, Sonic, Sheik, Ryu
This is just from my experience though, and some hearsay.

 

[TDK]

The best part about the nerfs is that 90% of the people who played Bayonetta in 1.1.5 are still playing her in 1.1.6.
Nobody was playing her just for easy wins, people were playing her because they liked the character. Yes, was she "unfair"? yes, maybe, we probably spent too much time complaining and not enough time figuring out how to beat her.

My point is, just saying who we want nerfed and why is ultimately pointless, because the mains aren't going to go away. People will still use their characters regardless of how much they're nerfed. Patch discussion and complaints are pointless because the characters aren't going to go away. Look at Saj, for instance. After the nerfs he actually got better, and now he's the best Bayonetta.

Patch discussion or "nerf (insert thing you want nerfed from character you don't like)" is pointless and doesn't construe as a good topic for the current viability of a character. Move on.

 

[Ropalme1914]

Speaking of Bayo, how is her matchup vs Cloud? If I remember right, Cloud had a bad matchup vs Bayo in 1.1.5, but now, I don't see her even cited when people talk about Cloud bad MUs.

 

[Murlough]

The best part about the nerfs is that 90% of the people who played Bayonetta in 1.1.5 are still playing her in 1.1.6.
Nobody was playing her just for easy wins, people were playing her because they liked the character. Yes, was she "unfair"? yes, maybe, we probably spent too much time complaining and not enough time figuring out how to beat her.

My point is, just saying who we want nerfed and why is ultimately pointless, because the mains aren't going to go away. People will still use their characters regardless of how much they're nerfed. Patch discussion and complaints are pointless because the characters aren't going to go away. Look at Saj, for instance. After the nerfs he actually got better, and now he's the best Bayonetta.

Patch discussion or "nerf (insert thing you want nerfed from character you don't like)" is pointless and doesn't construe as a good topic for the current viability of a character. Move on.

I know several people who dropped her a week later and have seen the ****storm that was the Bayonetta subforum after the patch dropped. So, actually yeah plenty of people played her to win.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I don't really get your point because it is flat out wrong. Luigi is rarely played since his nerf way back when. M2K loved prepatch Diddy but dropped him fast after the nerfs came.

Nerfs aren't meant to stop people from using a character, either. They are there to get rid of the truly busted stuff in the game. Whether or not people pick up or drop a character has nothing to do with it.

 

[ReRaze]

The best part about the nerfs is that 90% of the people who played Bayonetta in 1.1.5 are still playing her in 1.1.6.
Nobody was playing her just for easy wins, people were playing her because they liked the character. Yes, was she "unfair"? yes, maybe, we probably spent too much time complaining and not enough time figuring out how to beat her.

My point is, just saying who we want nerfed and why is ultimately pointless, because the mains aren't going to go away. People will still use their characters regardless of how much they're nerfed. Patch discussion and complaints are pointless because the characters aren't going to go away. Look at Saj, for instance. After the nerfs he actually got better, and now he's the best Bayonetta.

Patch discussion or "nerf (insert thing you want nerfed from character you don't like)" is pointless and doesn't construe as a good topic for the current viability of a character. Move on.

I don't think people want the mains or the characters to go away, they just want nerfs so those characters aren't "broken" or "polarised" or "unfair"

But I agree patch or nerf discussion are generally pointless because it's not like sakurai and co. are reading this thread. It's only when after nerf/buffs actually happen, then these discussions are fruitful and interesting for determining how much it has affected a character's viability.

'd

 

[TDK]

I know several people who dropped her a week later and have seen the ****storm that was the Bayonetta subforum after the patch dropped. So, actually yeah plenty of people played her to win.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I don't really get your point because it is flat out wrong. Luigi is rarely played since his nerf way back when. M2K loved prepatch Diddy but dropped him fast after the nerfs came.

Nerfs aren't meant to stop people from using a character, either. They are there to get rid of the truly busted stuff in the game. Whether or not people pick up or drop a character has nothing to do with it.

Sorry, got a bit annoyed reading the flush of "Nerf Mario USmash" posts. Mario's USmash isn't broken. Like, at all.

But yeah, we'd improve more as players if we found workarounds to the things we want nerfed instead of sitting around complaining about nerfs.

 

[blackghost]

Point of order.

Every time I see somebody bring up "but X character dies offstage if you take their second jump", I cringe a little.

It's not actually anything like unique.

Of course they die offstage if you take their second jump! The second jump is a crucial recovery tool!

The fact that there are characters who don't usually die if they're knocked offstage without a second jump (here's looking at you,) just goes to show how incredibly free recovering has become in this game!

So please, stop bringing it up like it's a salient point.

why is bayo in this list without her second jump shes is terrible shape. recovering in this game is only free becuase edge gaurding is the last skill to be polished in every smash game and in this game you cant just ledge hog and call it "guarding"

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

So I wanted to make a tier list that I could share with the internet and get the communities thoughts on. And here it is. My list mostly focuses on the tools each character has at their disposal and how they can be used. For example: Combo potential, Spacing tools, etc. This list does not include any custom characters. A little bit of bias is in this list but it isn't noticeable. Anyways, enjoy and be sure to give a suggestion or leave your thoughts.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean...

I consider myself pretty optimistic about Charizard but why is he higher than Bowser of all things?

Bowser and Palutena have better results than that.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Speaking of bayo against cloud, her swordie matchups are interesting to look at to say the least. Many bayo mains in the bayo discord see Shulk as a bad MU for bayonetta and so does a PRd player in southern Virginia. I'm just wondering about her other sword fighter matchups, such as marth or metaknight?

 

[Pancracio17]

When will people learn rosa cant be anywhere near there thanks to luma counterplay and this ****
Also whats D3 doing out of bottom 5? This list is wrong on so many levels imo
Edit2: roy high tier and shulk almost high tier lmao

 

[Murlough]

So I wanted to make a tier list that I could share with the internet and get the communities thoughts on. And here it is. My list mostly focuses on the tools each character has at their disposal and how they can be used. For example: Combo potential, Spacing tools, etc. This list does not include any custom characters. A little bit of bias is in this list but it isn't noticeable. Anyways, enjoy and be sure to give a suggestion or leave your thoughts.

I don't like discussing other people's personal tier lists because it always comes down to opinions.

However, Mewtwo is absolutely better than Pikachu and Corrin.

And why on earth is diddy below Ryu? He's nearly indisputed to be top three potential.

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

I mean...

I consider myself pretty optimistic about Charizard but why is he higher than Bowser of all things?

Bowser and Palutena have better results than that.

I probably should move palutena up a bit but bowser gets comboed for days and doesn't really have many options that I know of.

When will people learn rosa cant be anywhere near there thanks to luma counterplay and this ****
Also whats D3 doing out of bottom 5? This list is wrong on so many levels imo

I may have put rosa a bit too high but D3 has some okay options and DEDEDESGUSTING kill power.

 

[L9999]

So I wanted to make a tier list that I could share with the internet and get the communities thoughts on. And here it is. My list mostly focuses on the tools each character has at their disposal and how they can be used. For example: Combo potential, Spacing tools, etc. This list does not include any custom characters. A little bit of bias is in this list but it isn't noticeable. Anyways, enjoy and be sure to give a suggestion or leave your thoughts.

I will take the bait and what I feel about it. It's not right. 2 low: Diddy, Bayo, MK, Megaman, Marth, Lucina, Palutena, Mac, Olimar, Lucas, BOWSER, Robin
2 high: Ryu, ROY, KIRBY, SHULK, Zelda, DDD, Pacman, Brawler, GnW a little.

I want reasonings for the placings.

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

I don't like discussing other people's personal tier lists because it always comes down to opinions.

However, Mewtwo is absolutely better than Pikachu and Corrin.

And why on earth is diddy below Ryu? He's nearly indisputed to be top three potential.

Mewtwo just doesn't feel like he has enough tools imo. The ones that he does are quite scary but he feels so predictable.

Ryu is also indisputed to have top three potential. ZeRo has said before that ryu has the most potential of any character.

I will agree that I probably should move pikachu down a couple of spots.

 

[ElectricBlade]

Mewtwo just doesn't feel like he has enough tools imo. The ones that he does are quite scary but he feels so predictable.

Ryu is also indisputed to have top three potential. ZeRo has said before that ryu has the most potential of any character.

I will agree that I probably should move pikachu down a couple of spots.

I don't think Ryu really has the potential to ever be top 3 in the game. He's to easily beaten by run away and good anti-airing and understand how he works when grounded, which situations like that can be avoided by just running away. I'll let EmblemLord tell you why though because I am not expert on Ryu (if he wants to). But once the Ryu matchup has been grinded he is a lot less scary. He still however demands respect because TSRK is pretty good.

Another thing is that I want you to think about some of the characters below him both matchup spread wise and his matchups with them. Sheik for example is..above average against him (I wanna say she wins but TSRK is good) or Sonic beating him since he never has to engage him in the first place, or random characters like Megaman being pretty hard

Sorry if I'm wrong, ill correct this post if anything is off.
(One last thing, gonna warn you that you double posted before mods get to you and I'm not going to disrespect your list, you're new to the community and we shouldn't scare you off. Plus it is your opinion)

 

[FamilyTeam]

So I wanted to make a tier list that I could share with the internet and get the communities thoughts on. And here it is. My list mostly focuses on the tools each character has at their disposal and how they can be used. For example: Combo potential, Spacing tools, etc. This list does not include any custom characters. A little bit of bias is in this list but it isn't noticeable. Anyways, enjoy and be sure to give a suggestion or leave your thoughts.

Hello! I see you're a newcomer, welcome!
Well, yeah, definitely...

• Mario Top 5?... Maybe, but I think he's 5th at best. Ryu Top 3 is interesting, but I can't quite see it;

• Corrin isn't 11th, Falcon isn't 15th;

• Roy is not 28th, not close, and Marth and Lucina definitely aren't that low;

• Marth is probably higher than 29th, I'd say 20th by this point;

• Lucina isn't that much lower down than Marth. I think she's probably 5 spots lower minimum and 10 maximum;

• Robin is higher than that, for sure;

• Dedede, Shulk and Kirby should be lower. I've heard arguments saying that Dedede is arguably Bottom 10 or even Bottom 5, so he's not that high;

• Olimar really doesn't belong there, he should be Top 30 minimum, I think;

• Bowser and Palutena aren't that low at all.

Those are my opinions. Any reason in particular for some of your placings?

 

[Murlough]

Mewtwo just doesn't feel like he has enough tools imo. The ones that he does are quite scary but he feels so predictable.

Ryu is also indisputed to have top three potential. ZeRo has said before that ryu has the most potential of any character.

I will agree that I probably should move pikachu down a couple of spots.

Ryu isn't indisputable. His results have shown up until now that he may not be as good as we once thought. And ZeRo 1. Is not always right, and 2. Made a video titled "The Cringiest Smash 4 Player" and showed his placing of Ryu and then Trela getting bopped by Jade the Bowser Jr. This shows that his views have likely changed.

Abandango would not have made 5th* (****!) at EVO being "predictable" but your opinion.

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

I don't think Ryu really has the potential to ever be top 3 in the game. He's to easily beaten by run away and good anti-airing and understand how he works when grounded, which situations like that can be avoided by just running away. I'll let EmblemLord tell you why though because I am not expert on Ryu (if he wants to). But once the Ryu matchup has been grinded he is a lot less scary. He still however demands respect because TSRK is pretty good.

Another thing is that I want you to think about some of the characters below him both matchup spread wise and his matchups with them. Sheik for example is..above average against him (I wanna say she wins but TSRK is good) or Sonic beating him since he never has to engage him in the first place, or random characters like Megaman being pretty hard

Sorry if I'm wrong, ill correct this post if anything is off.
(One last thing, gonna warn you that you double posted before mods get to you and I'm not going to disrespect your list, you're new to the community and we shouldn't scare you off. Plus it is your opinion)

Thanks for the reply. I'm absolutely terrible with determining matchups. What does duble posting mean?

 

[Nobie]

Mewtwo has its weaknesses, but a lack of versatility and tools certainly isn't one of them.

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

Ryu isn't indisputable. His results have shown up until now that he may not be as good as we once thought. And ZeRo 1. Is not always right, and 2. Made a video titled "The Cringiest Smash 4 Player" and showed his placing of Ryu and then Trela getting bopped by Jade the Bowser Jr. This shows that his views have likely changed.

Abandango would not have made 3rd* (my bad) at EVO being "predictable" but your opinion.

Abadango made 7th at EVO if I remember correctly.

 

[Murlough]

I looked it up and we are both wrong. Aba made 5th.

My argument that he wouldn't have made it that far being predictable still stands.

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

Hello! I see you're a newcomer, welcome!
Well, yeah, definitely...

• Mario Top 5?... Maybe, but I think he's 5th at best. Ryu Top 3 is interesting, but I can't quite see it;

• Corrin isn't 11th, Falcon isn't 15th;

• Roy is not 28th, not close, and Marth and Lucina definitely aren't that low;

• Marth is probably higher than 29th, I'd say 20th by this point;

• Lucina isn't that much lower down than Marth. I think she's probably 5 spots lower minimum and 10 maximum;

• Robin is higher than that, for sure;

• Dedede, Shulk and Kirby should be lower. I've heard arguments saying that Dedede is arguably Bottom 10 or even Bottom 5, so he's not that high;

• Olimar really doesn't belong there, he should be Top 30 minimum, I think;

• Bowser and Palutena aren't that low at all.

Those are my opinions. Any reason in particular for some of your placings?

Roy in particular is a character who I feel is very underrated.

I can't really put in words how I feel about the others, But thanks for the friendly reply.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Thanks for the reply. I'm absolutely terrible with determining matchups. What does duble posting mean?

Don't post twice in a row, if you have anything new to add, edit your previous post.
Anyway, I think a post detailing why you put the characters in the tiers you made would be interesting and help us see your points better.

Roy in particular is a character who I feel is very underrated.

Hm? What do you see in him that would place him so high, then?

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

I looked it up and we are both wrong. Aba made 5th.

My argument that he wouldn't have made it that far being predictable still stands.

My bad.

 

[FamilyTeam]

0mega_Nebula_1
It maybe could interest you to check out how Duck Hunt has developed over in Japan, too, since they do consider him in much higher regards there. It could be a new point of view to see. I'd be interested in hearing yours about Roy, as I do play him occasionally.

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

Don't post twice in a row, if you have anything new to add, edit your previous post.
Anyway, I think a post detailing why you put the characters in the tiers you made would be interesting and help us see your points better.

I might make that post at another time but I'm wayyyyyy too tired for that right now.

Roy has a LOT of powerful combos that I've discovered with him and he has several options off of his grab. His kill power is mind boggling as well. Although the hilt mechanic is a double edged sword, it's not a huge problem. In my experience, playing safe with roy is a terrible idea and a more agressive playstyle is far better for him.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Lol get Shulk down from there he's gonna hurt himself. I'd put him at the bottom of the tier below him

 

[FamilyTeam]

I might make that post at another time but I'm wayyyyyy too tired for that right now.

Roy has a LOT of powerful combos that I've discovered with him and he has several options off of his grab. His kill power is mind boggling as well. Although the hilt mechanic is a double edged sword, it's not a huge problem. In my experience, playing safe with roy is a terrible idea and a more agressive playstyle is far better for him.

Hm...
Roy doesn't have a whole lot of confirmed true combos, I think, if any. He has a couple of nice mixups, but he can't rack up damage that efficiently. He also doesn't really have all that many options from his grabs - Marth and Lucina admittely don't have many either.

Roy has way too many inherent design flaws that are keeping him from being better. First, his jumps aren't very good, especially his shorthop. His air acceleration is kind of bad which means he takes a while to actually get going in the air. Even if you don't miss this during a fight, you will miss this while recovering, which is another weakness of his, since his Up Special doesn't cover that much distance.

He is also a lightweight fastfaller, which makes him combo food. But unlike many other lightweight-fastfallers in this game such as Fox, he can't really get out of combos as reliably as them, which means he ends up soaking too much damage himself, and his iffy recovery gives him average survivability at best. Atleast being a fast faller makes him harder to KO off of the top, as I've actually seen Macs not KOing him with KO Punch at 50% (though that's with pinpoint DI).
The Hilt mechanic also kind of goes against what a disjointed sword is supposed to do: It forces Roy, a character that can't even approach that well, to go balls to the wall against his target simply because he can't take much advantage of it. A lot like Marth, his non-sweetspotted hits are nothing but a slap, but much unlike Marth, he can't get much from those hits. He needs to get up close and personal with his sword, meaning he can't take much advantage of his disjointed range (which is rather poor to begin with) and his frame data cannot really accomodate such a reckless playstyle period.

Sadly, Roy just kind of got the short end of the stick in Smash 4 again.

 

[TDK]

So I wanted to make a tier list that I could share with the internet and get the communities thoughts on. And here it is. My list mostly focuses on the tools each character has at their disposal and how they can be used. For example: Combo potential, Spacing tools, etc. This list does not include any custom characters. A little bit of bias is in this list but it isn't noticeable. Anyways, enjoy and be sure to give a suggestion or leave your thoughts.

Hoo boy...

- is the best character in the game right now. Honestly, the fact that you have him at 9th baffles me. What do you see in other characters that are pretty unanimously considered worse than him as better?

- isn't top 3, and isn't top 10.

- and above Mewtwo is baffling, especially since Mewtwo has a top player that has made top 8 at multiple tournaments (aba) while the rest don't have notable players that make top 8 at multiple tournaments. (And no, Genesis doesn't count since it's two patches old.)

Spoiler: TDK's mini-essay on why Roy is a terrible character

- Roy, a pretty terrible character, at 28th, makes absolutely 0 sense. While sure, Roy has some strong combos, yeah, with Roy, unless you're facing, like, Ganondorf or Charizard, you absolutely cannot get hit unless you want to take 50% or more at the hands of a remotely competent opponent. For however hard Roy may be able to combo, Roy gets combod back that hard himself by any decent player playing a respectable character, and combined with his lack of combo breaking tools and awful recovery, puts Roy at the spot where he struggles to do anything once getting hit. Additionally, his weakness of "getting hit = potential stock at 0" is further excaberated by his hilt tipper, which forces Roy to be right beside his opponent at all times to even do anything. Ultimately, Roy plays too much like a Melee character. All you have to do to play Roy at the top level is outplay your opponent so much you never get hit, or else you're about to lose your stock. And if you have to never get hit with a character to do well, then that character is absolutely not good. Roy is a bottom 5 character disguised as a good character at low levels of play that entices people with his killpower at tournament levels where getting punished isn't as much of an issue because people aren't as good. But at any respectable level of play, his weaknesses are too large for him to even exist as a character.

- and are both in the top 20 and have the results to back it up.

- and both need to move down, probably to the bottom 15. Shulk maybe to the lower end of top 20, or the tier below him.

- needs to Super Dedede Jump down to the bottom 5. Period. Probably the bottom 3.

- and below Charizard, probably the worst character in the game (fight me zards) and in bottom tier just doesn't work. For Bowser, he's probably a tier below DK, as he's just a slightly worse DK, and definitely not bottom. Also, any character that can 2-0 ZeRo is automatically not in the bottom 5, or even the bottom 20.

Oh yeah, and move down to the last place spot.

No comment on the miis because I don't care about miis.

I'll post my list soon, hopefully it's more reasonable than this one. Thanks for reading

EDIT: something something . Drop him.

 

[blackghost]

Speaking of bayo against cloud, her swordie matchups are interesting to look at to say the least. Many bayo mains in the bayo discord see Shulk as a bad MU for bayonetta and so does a PRd player in southern Virginia. I'm just wondering about her other sword fighter matchups, such as marth or metaknight?

as a bayo min i think shulk is incredibly easy. everytime he resses a button i get a witch time if i want it. shulk cant edgegaurd me and outside of jump manado he will struggle to get back. shulk being in shield is actually good for bayo as he cant get out of combos and hes very easy to jiggle. he has no throw combos. and his biggest asseset (range) works agianst him. i cant see how he is a bad mu.
mk is somewhat annoyinh mutihits, link and tink are more so becuase of zoning ability. its not the sword itself bayo has issues with.

 

[0mega_Nebula_1]

Hm...
Roy doesn't have a whole lot of confirmed true combos, I think, if any. He has a couple of nice mixups, but he can't rack up damage that efficiently. He also doesn't really have all that many options from his grabs - Marth and Lucina admittely don't have many either.

Roy has way too many inherent design flaws that are keeping him from being better. First, his jumps aren't very good, especially his shorthop. His air acceleration is kind of bad which means he takes a while to actually get going in the air. Even if you don't miss this during a fight, you will miss this while recovering, which is another weakness of his, since his Up Special doesn't cover that much distance.

He is also a lightweight fastfaller, which makes him combo food. But unlike many other lightweight-fastfallers in this game such as Fox, he can't really get out of combos as reliably as them, which means he ends up soaking too much damage himself, and his iffy recovery gives him average survivability at best. Atleast being a fast faller makes him harder to KO off of the top, as I've actually seen Macs not KOing him with KO Punch at 50% (though that's with pinpoint DI).
The Hilt mechanic also kind of goes against what a disjointed sword is supposed to do: It forces Roy, a character that can't even approach that well, to go balls to the wall against his target simply because he can't take much advantage of it. A lot like Marth, his non-sweetspotted hits are nothing but a slap, but much unlike Marth, he can't get much from those hits. He needs to get up close and personal with his sword, meaning he can't take much advantage of his disjointed range (which is rather poor to begin with) and his frame data cannot really accomodate such a reckless playstyle to begin with.

Sadly, Roy just kind of got the short end of the stick in Smash 4 again.

Damn. After reading all of that, I don't think that Roy is a good character any more. Lmao.

Anyways, I'm going to bed. I'll make some more replied tommorow morning.

 

[FamilyTeam]

- and above Mewtwo is baffling, especially since Mewtwo has a top player that has made top 8 at multiple tournaments (aba) while the rest don't have notable players that make top 8 at multiple tournaments. (And no, Genesis doesn't count since it's two patches old.)

I thought people still saw ZSS atleast as a fairly great character, though. I don't know if Mewtwo really can be better than her as of now.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Something interesting: Top 16 weighted results: Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/tournament-placing-database-scoring-project.437773/

Credits to @Das Koopa for the data!

1. Diddy Kong: 293
2. Sheik: 266.5
3. Cloud: 229.5
4. Sonic: 193
5. Fox: 165.5
6. Mario: 165
7. Rosalina & Luma: 155.5
8. Zero Suit Samus: 120.5
8. Ryu: 107.5
10. Bayonetta: 106
11. Marth: 78
12. Meta Knight: 76
13. Peach: 69
14. Captain Falcon: 69
15. Toon Link: 66.5
16. Mewtwo: 61
17. Ness: 59.5
18. Corrin: 59
19. Mega Man: 58.5
20. Pikachu: 58

Top 3 isn't very surprising, but Sonic and Fox above Mario? That's interesting. Mewtwo down at 16 is very interesting as well, as is Marth at 11. Are people sleeping on Peach and Captain Falcon? 13 and 14. Villager not making top 20 is a bit surprising as well, I suspect that's mainly due to a lack of Villager players (he's #21). I wouldn't base a tier list solely off of these results, but the data is quite interesting. Is Mewtwo overrated (possibly a bit, but I do think he deserves to be top 10)? Are Peach and Captain Falcon underrated?

 

[TDK]

I thought people still saw ZSS atleast as a fairly great character, though. I don't know if Mewtwo really can be better than her as of now.

My reasoning was mostly Nairo and Marss failing to make top 8 at recent tournaments while Aba has.

 

[Y2Kay]

Mewtwo is some kind of swiss army knife that comes with a light saber and machine gun.

He's got all the "tools" you'll ever want, you just got to be able to use them.

 

[PK Gaming]

So I wanted to make a tier list that I could share with the internet and get the communities thoughts on. And here it is. My list mostly focuses on the tools each character has at their disposal and how they can be used. For example: Combo potential, Spacing tools, etc. This list does not include any custom characters. A little bit of bias is in this list but it isn't noticeable. Anyways, enjoy and be sure to give a suggestion or leave your thoughts.

This definitely looks like it was made without much experience or general knowledge of the metagame.

You seem like a nice person, but you're probably not at a point where you can make coherent tier lists. I mean this in the nicest way possible; I think it would better if you focused your energies elsewhere, since as it stands, you're just going to end up derailing the thread with this tier list.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Speaking of bayo against cloud, her swordie matchups are interesting to look at to say the least. Many bayo mains in the bayo discord see Shulk as a bad MU for bayonetta and so does a PRd player in southern Virginia. I'm just wondering about her other sword fighter matchups, such as marth or metaknight?

Funny you mention Bayonetta vs. Meta Knight, because I think that's a matchup she does okay in. Her neutral is usually a weakness, but against Meta Knight it's not as big a deal because his own neutral isn't anything spectacular either. His main setups into uair ladders are dash attack and utilt, both of which are single hit moves, so if he's fishing for them that opens him up to Witch Time. (Is Bayonetta even particularly vulnerable to the ladder?)

Offstage is where I get less confident because Meta Knight has a lot of tools there, but Bayonetta isn't totally helpless either. At the very least she can mix up her order of Twist, Twist 2, ABK, and double jump, and if she gets hit she gets back her ABK and both Twists.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

as a bayo min i think shulk is incredibly easy. everytime he resses a button i get a witch time if i want it. shulk cant edgegaurd me and outside of jump manado he will struggle to get back. shulk being in shield is actually good for bayo as he cant get out of combos and hes very easy to jiggle. he has no throw combos. and his biggest asseset (range) works agianst him. i cant see how he is a bad mu.
mk is somewhat annoyinh mutihits, link and tink are more so becuase of zoning ability. its not the sword itself bayo has issues with.

Just saying monado purge( jump art uthrow uair) can kill bayo at 70 at can go through witch time.
So much for "no throw combos/strings"
Also Shulk doesn't have to use shield, and Shulk can use Mallc airdodge or camp with jump art like dragonbrain does( if you haven't heard of him look it up, Shulk can camp to no end with jump). Shulks biggest weakness against bayonetta is offstage, nair destroys him with out jump art.
Also the biggest reason bayo mains thought Shulk bayo was even pre patch was because shield art could flat out get Shulk out of her 0 to deaths. But shield art made him bullet art food, so it kinda limited Shulk to use shield more pre patch. Now that bayo is massacred, the MU is better, but I personally think it's barely Shulk advantage or possibly even because I for one think bayonetta is top 15.

TDK erm you think Shulk is top 20? ( I think you mean lower end of bottom 20 even though I think he's barely past bottom 20 but that's just me)

EDIT: thanks for the response ParanoidDrone

 

[L9999]

Something interesting: Top 16 weighted results: Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/tournament-placing-database-scoring-project.437773/

Credits to @Das Koopa for the data!

1. Diddy Kong: 293
2. Sheik: 266.5
3. Cloud: 229.5
4. Sonic: 193
5. Fox: 165.5
6. Mario: 165
7. Rosalina & Luma: 155.5
8. Zero Suit Samus: 120.5
8. Ryu: 107.5
10. Bayonetta: 106
11. Marth: 78
12. Meta Knight: 76
13. Peach: 69
14. Captain Falcon: 69
15. Toon Link: 66.5
16. Mewtwo: 61
17. Ness: 59.5
18. Corrin: 59
19. Mega Man: 58.5
20. Pikachu: 58

Top 3 isn't very surprising, but Sonic and Fox above Mario? That's interesting. Mewtwo down at 16 is very interesting as well, as is Marth at 11. Are people sleeping on Peach and Captain Falcon? 13 and 14. Villager not making top 20 is a bit surprising as well, I suspect that's mainly due to a lack of Villager players (he's #21). I wouldn't base a tier list solely off of these results, but the data is quite interesting. Is Mewtwo overrated (possibly a bit, but I do think he deserves to be top 10)? Are Peach and Captain Falcon underrated?

Sanic is a plague right now with a lot of different players placings top 16 at the same time. Fox is almost law he places good. Also, Corrin has no results right guys?