Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[420quickscoper]

Day in 13th is a very good result that noone seems to be talking about. Japan rates Lucario very, very highly, and they have players to back it up. Mexico has Serge, the US Day, Japan has more than player one whose names escape me, and all of them garner good results. Lucario is a strong character with a lot of room for growth and development. He's always kinda just been there, not getting much attention from what I've noticed. In a game where many top characters have had early kill moves or throw kill setups cut down or removed, aura will remain strong.

The only question was how Day got into top 16. I heard he beat Rain?

 

[Y2Kay]

sheik outclassed greninja in literally every area.
much betterbetter neutral.
much better potential 0 to 50-60 damage/20% punish conversions
actually challenges him offstage while she recovers for free.
far safer(he couldn't punish proper sheik play at ALL)
got camped forever because shurikens were so inferior to needles
consistently died at 100-120 while he can't really kill her reliably.
name anything greninja had and sheik did it ten times better. the matchup was impossible to play if the sheik actually knew how to play it.

ness vs rosa is 7:3 instead of 8:2 because while he gets demolished offstage, he actually does very well for himself in removing luma and playing the neutral. onstage is the majority of the matchup. it's not like you start the game with ness instantly being offstage.

Ummm dude . . . I know it's been a while but it wasn't THAT bad.

Sheik is better in neutral but Greninja's isn't helpless. Shurikens have more range, Greninja moves faster in the air and on the ground, and had a good grab game of his own.

Unless your on smashville 0 - 80 combos weren't very common. Greninja's own combos have higher damage output than Sheik's. Greninja's double fair combo does more damage than an entire fair train.

Sheik really wasn't gimping us like that. It was hard to gimp her but she wasn't stuffing hydro pump or something.

Sheik had an easier time killing but their kill percents arent much different.

It really wasn't that hard to to live past 100% LOL it was still sheik at the end of the day.

Greninja's Shurikens weren't as good as needles but they weren't so "inferior" Greninja can actually compete with a camping sheik, as Shurikens had similar range.

Your description of the match up is incredibly over the top man. Even back then, iStudying was able to take sets off of Mr. R.

Someone must have told you it was that bad, because I have a hard time believing you've actually fought good Greninja's and came to that conclusion.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Yeah, people kinda gas pre patch sheik vs greninja.

On a side note, let's not act like recovering is the only bad part of the Rosa matchup for Ness. He still has to penetrate an incredible wall with his bad mobility, meh range and mediocre approaches. As stated earlier he has good Luma killing options, but honestly, what can he do to a luma-less Rosa who's running away and playing defensively? That's a part of the Rosa matchup that in general people don't talk about enough. Chasing a vulnerable Rosa.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Ummm dude . . . I know it's been a while but it wasn't THAT bad.

Sheik is better in neutral but Greninja's isn't helpless. Shurikens have more range, Greninja moves faster in the air and on the ground, and had a good grab game of his own.

Moving faster yet all of his moves are slower than hers by a considerable margin.
and as you know, prepatch sheik needles outranged shurikens in pretty much every circumstance.

Unless your on smashville 0 - 80 combos weren't very common. Greninja's own combos have higher damage output than Sheik's. Greninja's double fair combo does more damage than an entire fair train.

I never said anything about 0-80 lol.
0-50 or 60 is guaranteed on almost every fastfaller vs Sheik.
common optimized Sheik strings that include things like fullhop aerial needles, pp ftilts, and pp reverse utilts work on stages like T&C, FD, and Smashville. it's not like they're completely unavoidable by banning one stage.
If you think fair strings are the best 0% combo vs a fastfaller I don't think you've ever watched a Sheik player before.
Even then, you get around 40% at WORST because of being able to regrab after the second fair/ftilt.

Sheik really wasn't gimping us like that. It was hard to gimp her but she wasn't stuffing hydro pump or something.

Okay, sure. take out the gimping and you're still having an awful time getting off the ledge vs her.
I'll reference one of the many Mr. R iStudying sets, since you've done the same.

Greninja's Shurikens weren't as good as needles but they weren't so "inferior" Greninja can actually compete with a camping sheik, as Shurikens had similar range.

okay. Let's look at a few of the points.
-Needles are an unreactable frame 1 move if fully charged and a move that conditions the opponent to shield if not. hello, Mr. horrible OoS options and mediocre throw game
-Forced greninja to approach vs the combo of needles and fair that he has a dreadful time playing around(HUGE reason this matchup is so awful). you try and dashgrab sheik and eat a fair string/fair fish or get grabbed and take loads of damage+potentially die because dthrow uair and (insert throw)+bouncing fish
-STILL had more range than shurikens
-Put you in tumble if you happened to be unlucky enough to go above 90-100
-Gave her free stage positioning
I want to ask you, since I've done my fair share of giving information.
If prepatch Sheik is needlecamping what did Greninja do? At any percent?

and at the final point, no. I'm not blowing it out of my ass.
One of my main practice partners is a decent Greninja main and has been since 1.1.2.
It's a matchup I studied a ridiculous amount prepatch. Lets not ignore the merit someone "may" have because we want to oversell how our main was in some past circumstance.
don't downplay how stupid Sheik was.

 

[ReRaze]

Moving faster yet all of his moves are slower than hers by a considerable margin.
and as you know, prepatch sheik needles outranged shurikens in pretty much every circumstance.

I never said anything about 0-80 lol.
0-50 or 60 is guaranteed on almost every fastfaller vs Sheik.
common optimized Sheik strings that include things like fullhop aerial needles, pp ftilts, and pp reverse utilts work on stages like T&C, FD, and Smashville. it's not like they're completely unavoidable by banning one stage.
If you think fair strings are the best 0% combo vs a fastfaller I don't think you've ever watched a Sheik player before.
Even then, you get around 40% at WORST because of being able to regrab after the second fair/ftilt.

Okay, sure. take out the gimping and you're still having an awful time getting off the ledge vs her.
I'll reference one of the many Mr. R iStudying sets, since you've done the same.

okay. Let's look at a few of the points.
-Needles are an unreactable frame 1 move if fully charged and a move that conditions the opponent to shield if not. hello, Mr. horrible OoS options and mediocre throw game
-Forced greninja to approach vs the combo of needles and fair that he has a dreadful time playing around(HUGE reason this matchup is so awful). you try and dashgrab sheik and eat a fair string/fair fish or get grabbed and take loads of damage+potentially die because dthrow uair and (insert throw)+bouncing fish
-STILL had more range than shurikens
-Put you in tumble if you happened to be unlucky enough to go above 90-100
-Gave her free stage positioning
I want to ask you, since I've done my fair share of giving information.
If prepatch Sheik is needlecamping what did Greninja do? At any percent?

and at the final point, no. I'm not blowing it out of my ***.
One of my main practice partners is a decent Greninja main and has been since 1.1.2.
It's a matchup I studied a ridiculous amount prepatch. Lets not ignore the merit someone "may" have because we want to oversell how our main was in some past circumstance.
don't downplay how stupid Sheik was.

Shiek was good and she was good against Greninja but it ain't as bad as you're making it out to be, it definitely isn't 80-20.

-Greninja isn't ganon, he's got some of the best mobility stats in the game, if prepatch shiek is needle camping the Greninja doesn't have to sit in shield. Needles don't travel horizontally in the air. There's really no reason for him to approach unless sheik has the lead.
-Stage positioning isn't as good vs greninja as it is vs other charcaters, with the second highest jump and one of the fastest air speeds it's a little harder to pin him down.
-As for landing greninjas landing options are pretty good, Nair and Fair are darn safe if used right.
-Greninja has a really good niche mixup in getting out of some of shiek's combos with shadow sneak, and if done right you can get the falling version which will almost always hit shiek. It can even get him out of dthrow uair.
-Greninja outranges shiek on pretty much everything, just cuz she has better attack frame data doesn't mean she bodies him blow for blow.
-He may have mediocre throw combos but they work fine on a fast faller like shiek.
-"You try and dashgrab a shiek and eat a fair string/fair fish...." C'mon seriously, this is an extremly vague and simplistic way of looking at things (Also, love the point where greninja magically gets grabbed himself for trying to dash grab shiek)The greninja either sucks at getting dash grabs or you have the reaction time of a CPU.

And besides I think iStudying being able to take sets off Mr.R is a major fact you are overlooking, that level of play says alot more than you vs your Greninja friend. Mr.R is on another level compared to iStudying, the fact that he can take sets off Mr.R is strong evidence this MU isn't 80-20.

 

[Kofu]

@Fatmanonice you cited Villager as a counterpick character for Fox. Care to explain? I don't see it at all.

Villager can harass Fox horribly offstage but onstage Fox has the advantage in every area. He's far more mobile than Villager, has a reflector, and can easily pressure Villager's shield because of the character's miserable grab.

I really don't think it's in Villager's favor. Not a horrible matchup (NAir and Jab help a ton) but Fox seems to have a definite advantage.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Greninja isn't ganon, he's got some of the best mobility stats in the game, if prepatch shiek is needle camping the Greninja doesn't have to sit in shield. Needles don't travel horizontally in the air. There's really no reason for him to approach unless sheik has the lead.

it's prepatch Sheik
i really hate to put it this way, but she almost always had the lead if the players were remotely similar in skill level.

Stage positioning isn't as good vs greninja as it is vs other charcaters, with the second highest jump and one of the fastest air speeds it's a little harder to pin him down.

your mobility doesn't matter a ton if you're cornered with slow aerial options(your fastest is bair, which needs to be RaR'd. the next fastest is FRAME 12 nair that has almost no range. after that is your frame 16 fair). almost all of sheik's combos leave you at the edge of the stage if not fully offstage, so it's nowhere near as difficult as you make it sound to push him there

As for landing greninjas landing options are pretty good, Nair and Fair are darn safe if used right.

That's not a landing situation
The thing you're outlining sounds like an air to air short hop height, which I can admit is extremely difficult to challenge Greninja in if you're not prepared for it.

Greninja has a really good niche mixup in getting out of some of shiek's combos with shadow sneak, and if done right you can get the falling version which will almost always hit shiek. It can even get him out of dthrow uair.

"niche mixup" is something that'll work once a game.
I don't think you should be talking about it in a game where you have neutral interactions much more than a handful of times.

Greninja outranges shiek on pretty much everything, just cuz she has better attack frame data doesn't mean she bodies him blow for blow.

I never said that. It's just logical to say that when a character's OoS/aerial options are as slow as Greninja's there's no way for him to ever beat Sheik to the punch. We jump at the same time and you'll never touch me. I jump 5 frames after you and you'll still never touch me. I jump 10 frames after and.....whoa, you still won't touch me. That is BAD. We're obviously human and don't have TAS level reaction times, but an entire 5-10 frame difference on how fast two characters can get a move out is extremely significant.

"You try and dashgrab a shiek and eat a fair string/fair fish...." C'mon seriously, this is an extremly vague and simplistic way of looking at things (Also, love the point where greninja magically gets grabbed himself for trying to dash grab shiek)The greninja either sucks at getting dash grabs or you have the reaction time of a CPU.

guess we'll have to go over simplistic needle things again
sheik's charging needles. she has a 10% lead or something. naturally you approach her.
short hop approaches are beat out by fairx100. dash grab attempts are beaten by needles, rising fair or her own grab.
greninja going dash to shield up to sheik(which is what you usually see happening) ends up in him getting dash grabbed.
she won't react perfectly on every single interaction, but she doesn't have to. it's made so easy by the larger fair and needle range that even if she could only do it properly 6/10 times, there was a huge % deficit.

And besides I think iStudying being able to take sets off Mr.R is a major fact you are overlooking, that level of play says alot more than you vs your Greninja friend. Mr.R is on another level compared to iStudying, the fact that he can take sets off Mr.R is strong evidence this MU isn't 80-20.

of course you can take sets off of someone if you practice with them and play multiple tourney sets over the course of many months.
are you joking, lmfao.
and don't ignore the fact that Mr. R is FAR more impressive post-nerf.

 

[Murlough]

Who gives a ****?


Arguing over an outdated matchup is a complete waste of time. The Marth vs. Lucina discussion was more relevent.

 

[TDK]

of course you can take sets off of someone if you practice with them and play multiple tourney sets over the course of many months.

Shouldn't this apply to you and your friend?

 

[FeelMeUp]

Shouldn't this apply to you and your friend?

Of course it does.
I'm not using he and I playing reasoning to say it's bad. I'm using it to show that I actually DID understand the matchup better than most rather than just theorycrafting everything in my head like the majority of posters prefer.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Who gives a ****?


Arguing over an outdated matchup is a complete waste of time. The Marth vs. Lucina discussion was more relevent.

Frankly... I'm inclined to agree.
Just put it more politely next time, okay?

 

[bc1910]

When did iStudying take a set off Mr R in bracket pre-patch? Pretty sure he never did after 1.0.4.

Anyway, prepatch Sheik vs Greninja was unwinnable at any reasonable level of play. But I agree there's no point getting hung up on past MUs since it plays out quite differently now.

It's still bad but likely not worse than 4/6.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

K, ignoring Pre Patch Discussion for relevant discussion. It's pre-patch. Does not add ANYTHING to speculation of the next tier list.

Marth discussion: So Marth has been making serious strides. While this can be accounted for terrible scheduling, Mr. E beat Zero at Evo this year, which caused some drama. Mr. E, in the end, placed higher than players like Mr. R, Tyrant, and Hyuga. Meanwhile, Pudgiest, the second best Marth, got top 32 at Evo. So results are there.

But wait! There were only 2 Ryu players in top 64. DJ Jack got 49th. Trela is the only relevant Ryu. Meanwhile, Esam has been falling off, FOW hasn't been to hot as of late, etc.

As for Lucina... not sure what to say. She's a worse Marth, let's just be clear. Since no one plays her and gets consistent and good results I frankly don't care for her lol.

 

[ReRaze]

Yeah it'd probably be fruitless to prolong that conversation. MU discussions and ratios in general are highly subjective anyway, I guess it's better to leave those things to consensus ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As for Lucina... not sure what to say. She's a worse Marth, let's just be clear. Since no one plays her and gets consistent and good results I frankly don't care for her lol.

Maybe that's the problem? Maybe nobody plays her because there is this stigma that she's nothing but a worse Marth and if that's the case its harder to judge her actual viability if no one plays her. But really she does have some nifty perks over her great grandfather, she's not just a "worse Marth". Komorikri picking her over Marth probably says something since he doesn't seem like a typical Lucina fanboy, perhaps there's more to it.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Komorikri picking her over Marth probably says something since he doesn't seem like a typical Lucina fanboy, perhaps there's more to it.

The literal reason is that her actual downsides don't stand out in the Cloud matchup. He plays her for Cloud because he doesn't like Sonic vs. Cloud and also probably hates the Cloud ditto like most Cloud players do (it's not a good ditto at all lol)

 

[ReRaze]

The literal reason is that her actual downsides don't stand out

Her downsides don't stand out? Care to elaborate? Would Marth not still do better in the MU?

 

[warionumbah2]

The only question was how Day got into top 16. I heard he beat Rain?

He had to beat rain, 6wx and xaltis to get into the 13th rhelm if my memory is correct.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Her downsides don't stand out? Care to elaborate? Would Marth not still do better in the MU?

He would do better yes (I mean this is for most MUs) but the thing is that it's a lot less complex to whip out a Lucina and stuff because your primary goal is to put Cloud offstage as much as possible, you don't really need to play Marth to do that since that's not one of the things that separate them. Basically what Marth and Lucina want to do in this matchup is done by both of them fairly well. It's one of the times where it looks like the gap barely exists (this is one of the few matchups where it's not a noticeable performance gap)

Also talking Lucina in general, if Nair FSmash doesn't confirm below like, 115-120 then IDK if it's as crazy as I thought it could be.

 

[ReRaze]

He would do better yes (I mean this is for most MUs) but the thing is that it's a lot less complex to whip out a Lucina and stuff because your primary goal is to put Cloud offstage as much as possible, you don't really need to play Marth to do that since that's not one of the things that separate them. Basically what Marth and Lucina want to do in this matchup is done by both of them fairly well. It's one of the times where it looks like the gap barely exists (this is one of the few matchups where it's not a noticeable performance gap)

Also talking Lucina in general, if Nair FSmash doesn't confirm below like, 115-120 then IDK if it's as crazy as I thought it could be.

Oh I see, as for the fsmash thing It does confirm below 115, I mentioned before it starts working as early as 85%+ depending on rage and character, even if it does't true combo at earlier percents, often it'll snag the jump and airdodging into the ground will still get you fsmashed.
The dancing blade > nair > fsmash setup starts working a little bit later though (still earlier than 115 definitely).

 

[meleebrawler]

Maybe that's the problem? Maybe nobody plays her because there is this stigma that she's nothing but a worse Marth and if that's the case its harder to judge her actual viability if no one plays her. But really she does have some nifty perks over her great great great great great super-great grandfather, she's not just a "worse Marth". Komorikri picking her over Marth probably says something since he doesn't seem like a typical Lucina fanboy, perhaps there's more to it.

If he was only a great grandfather I'm sure Lucina would have done a better impression than she did in Awakening...

 

[TTTTTsd]

Also, having seen it live, ZeRo vs. Earth reminded me of a problem that Pit has, not necessarily his disadvantage entirely (I think that's fine, multijumps always gucci) but rather, in the scenarios he's forced to land, he basically has to go for the ledge. ZeRo covered like, every landing aerial ever with shield and it's a bit unfortunate, he basically HAS to AC all of his aerials and this works in the neutral just fine but it can make ledge options out of ledgedrop a bit harder to mixup and Earth got punished for it a lot. His lowest landing lag aerial sits at 20.

It's definitely a hurdle the character can overcome but I've just never seen it brought up that often, it's a pretty real issue regardless.

 

[FamilyTeam]

As for Lucina... not sure what to say. She's a worse Marth, let's just be clear. Since no one plays her and gets consistent and good results I frankly don't care for her lol.

Exactly like ReRaze above me said: You're frankly not helping. People put it in their heads that Marth is just a better Lucina, nobody tries her, and now we don't even know what the character can really do. If you "frankly don't care for her", then why are you even talking about her?
I refuse to see her as "just worse Marth", to me, there's more to her than just that.

 

[TTTTTsd]

even if it does't true combo at earlier percents, often it'll snag the jump and airdodging into the ground will still get you fsmashed.

At that point it's a mix-up, not a confirm. If we're going to talk about it as a surefire thing, it's really truly most prevalent once it starts true comboing. Is there a percent list (with or without rage, doesn't matter to me) on a per character basis, or just a rough estimate for when it goes from mixup to confirm?

 

[ReRaze]

At that point it's a mix-up, not a confirm. If we're going to talk about it as a surefire thing, it's really truly most prevalent once it starts true comboing. Is there a percent list (with or without rage, doesn't matter to me) on a per character basis, or just a rough estimate for when it goes from mixup to confirm?

Nair > Fsmash starts true comboing Bowser starting at ~80% provided nair is fresh and you hit with the lowest hit, no rage. But landing it like that is unrealistic so I'm gonna say ~100% on average

 

[FamilyTeam]

Does anyone have any videos showcasing Nair>Side Smash/Nair>DB>Side Smash and the sorts? I am interested in learning them.

 

[ElectricBlade]

An interesting thing I found is that Komorikiri puts Lucina at the third worst character in the game according to this https://twitter.com/ss_s_c_b/status/691280394004500480 . Can we assume he changed his opinion? Btw if I find vods of his Lucina I'll post it here/edit it into here.

 

[FamilyTeam]

An interesting thing I found is that Komorikiri puts Lucina at the third worst character in the game according to this https://twitter.com/ss_s_c_b/status/691280394004500480 . Can we assume he changed his opinion? Btw if I find vods of his Lucina I'll post it here/edit it into here.

In what path were we in January 2016? Wasn't it 1.1.4, after the buffs (but before the nerfing of characters such as Sheik)?
Frankly it looks all wrong.

 

[Frihetsanka]

In what path were we in January 2016? Wasn't it 1.1.4, after the buffs (but before the nerfing of characters such as Sheik)?
Frankly it looks all wrong.

1.1.3.

 

[ElectricBlade]

I found the vods! Special thanks to reddit user Tetra-76 for finding them with me

https://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash/v/78128334?t=1h7m30s
https://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash/v/78136415
https://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash/v/78136415

 

[Emblem Lord]

He would do better yes (I mean this is for most MUs) but the thing is that it's a lot less complex to whip out a Lucina and stuff because your primary goal is to put Cloud offstage as much as possible, you don't really need to play Marth to do that since that's not one of the things that separate them. Basically what Marth and Lucina want to do in this matchup is done by both of them fairly well. It's one of the times where it looks like the gap barely exists (this is one of the few matchups where it's not a noticeable performance gap)

Also talking Lucina in general, if Nair FSmash doesn't confirm below like, 115-120 then IDK if it's as crazy as I thought it could be.

Confirm starts around 85% as a general rule of thumb, but I would say 90% to 95% to be on the safe side. I will test later when I get off work. It IS good. But she won't suddenly be top tier because of it. Really if you see Lucina jump, you just block. If you see a shieldbreaker then roll. If she does a FF to grab well ok nice mix-up, but she has no grab confirms and her throw damage is low.

I could see the confirm bringing her up a tier at most.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Confirm starts around 85% as a general rule of thumb, but I would say 90% to 95% to be on the safe side. I will test later when I get off work. It IS good. But she won't suddenly be top tier because of it. Really if you see Lucina jump, you just block. If you see a shieldbreaker then roll. If she does a FF to grab well ok nice mix-up, but she has no grab confirms and her throw damage is low.

I could see the confirm bringing her up a tier at most.

Well fear not! I've been doing some labbing and Marth has a kill confirm too akin to this except with....Sour Nair into Rising Tipper Uair. You can literally do it on top of Mario and Sheik.

I'm serious, it works CONSISTENTLY at like 120-125% (No Rage) against Mario, Sheik, and ZSS so far. His initial Uair hitboxes must have VERY generous tippers =3

If you don't get it on top of someone, you can drift back a little during your jump and tip the Uair like that. It works fairly well and consistently.

Rising Uair confirmed effective? HRMMM

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh. I think Marth would be better served getting Nair to DB confirm more consistent with last hit tippers. Kills really well.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Eh. I think Marth would be better served getting Nair to DB confirm more consistent with last hit tippers. Kills really well.

Both work but if you're middle-stage (I'm assuming the DB tipper isn't the vertical one but do correct me) Nair > Uair is better.

Seriously Uair's tipper hitbox is so good wtf. Rising Uair can hit people on the way up right next to him and the tipper is so free! I need to experiment with this some more....

 

[Emblem Lord]

Also FYI guys, Roy also has Nair confirms. Buuuuut, unfortunately because of how his sweetspots work he has to make sure he doesnt tip or his confirms don't combo. A small nuance, but it's there. On the plus side I feel this has the most potential with him due to his physics and mobility as well as having a strong tomahawk game thanks to his grabs. Roy jumps and now the mix-up potential is very real and scary. Will test more when I get home.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I found the vods! Special thanks to reddit user Tetra-76 for finding them with me

https://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash/v/78128334?t=1h7m30s
https://www.twitch.tv/rushhoursmash/v/78136415

(also that tier list is probably useless now, sorry <.<)

Thanks for the videos, they're great!
You should probably check how you orgainzed your links, though, I think they're wrong.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I'm truly scared of the possible knee jerk reaction of needing a change in format.

Format change is good to me. It represents that the meta is alive and well and is forever growing and fervent. A change in format is good if it's based in correlations/trends, facts, and no emotion.

I mean, at first I hated that Delfino and Halberd became banned and KJ 64 isn't legal because of circle camping (on DH, you could do the same, but not enough people do that yet), but it was a fact that people, especially at higher levels weren't choosing Delfino or Halberd.

We face a similar situation now to increase stock count discussions. I personally do like 3 stocks, but my personal stake doesn't matter. I've seen some proponents speak up more and more (like ESAM, ZeRo and Ally).

I mean Ally didn't actually say it out front, but it was implied in this ESPN article:
"I'll be honest, I don't think [having a consistent top eight] will happen for Smash for Wii U," he explains. "Smash for Wii U is a hard game to become consistent in, because there's only two stocks, and most of the time, you suicide once and you might lose the game. Because of that, I don't think Smash for Wii U will have a set top eight."

What meta are we striving to reach if the only time we move is because a top player says so?

 

[ElectricBlade]

Thanks for the videos, they're great!
You should probably check how you orgainzed your links, though, I think they're wrong.

Yeah no clue how the last part became a link, but I fixed it. And no problem!

 

[Iron Kraken]

Very impressive performance by Ranai, somehow making the Rosa matchup not look like the burning dumpster fire that it actually is. While I still think Villager is underrated, there are still some issues to contend with and Ranai easily had the most stacked line up against him in top 8. Rosa, Mario, and Mewtwo are still pretty bad while Sheik is a lot more managable than it used to be and Megaman is incredibly frustrating. There's still lots of evidence that Villager is still a good choice against ZSS, Ness, Diddy, and Fox though so I'm hoping Ranai's influence encourages people to at least consider Villager as a noteworthy counterpick.

Rosa vs Villy is not even close to a lopsided match up. In my Rosa match up chart I said it was slightly in Rosa's favor, but pushing even. Villy has a lot going for him in the match up, like terrorizing her with bowling balls off stage. It pretty much forces Rosa to recover high and just take whatever beating she will take. If Rosa must grab the ledge, even if Rosa somehow avoids bowling ball death, Luma's death is guaranteed. Villager is also one of the very few characters that can actually challenge Rosa's up-airs thanks to his amazing Dair. Beyond that, Villager can camp Rosa pretty effectively, just as Rosa can camp him. So it's really a who-is-going-to-blink-first kind of match up, in which neither side can penetrate the other's defenses easily. Overall there's a misconception that the match up is trash for Villy just because Rosa has gravitational pull. That's hardly the case. As long as the Villager player understands that he can't just recklessly lloid rocket and run into Rosa as he does with other characters, he's generally going to be okay. He just needs to play the match up differently (i.e. campier). Ranai demonstrated at the end of the set just how hard one bad gravitational pull can be punished.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It seems like Rosalina's matchups generally are a good bit less polarizing than we used to think. Most importantly, Rosalina players have managed to even up her matchup against Cloud which makes her my personal favorite for whom I'd place at 3rd on a conventional tier list.

 

[HoSmash4]

Sheik has all the tools to dominate Greninja but taking a max rage nair to upsmash to the face at 50% and dying for it kinda sucks.