"****"

[Strong Badam]

im gay and i don't care when people say gay

 

[LittleBoyLarry]

im gay and i don't care when people say gay

That's so gay.

 

[Psychoace]

Well I disagree to use **** as a word personally so I made a good effort to say "I owned you"

Slavery is bad yo.

 

[GawdImFoxy]

im gay and i don't care when people say gay

Did not know you're gay. I think if I was gay, I wouldn't care how people threw around the word or its synonyms. I also think if I were *****, I wouldn't care that people say "****" either. This is 2012. The blacks in our community don't care what you call them either. I think it's kinda required that you're not a diva to be a part of the smash community. That's part of what makes it so damn good.

 

[Wak]

About time I find such a thread

I unfortunately always waited for such a topic to come, to talk about it. Because at some point, I knew some day, someone would point it out... And it's for obvious reasons when you have a certain humanity / common sense / wisdom / it hapenned to you.

And now that the topic is right there, I don't know what to begin with.

Well, first, I want to inform you guys that the subject of **** is, at first, a very sensitive subject. You are all using that word like it doesn't have any meaning, but seriously, those few who STILL say it are probably the only ones that the word really does not have any.

A good couple of my friends that are not on smashboards have told me they got ***** when they were kids, and even a very close friend girl of mine got ***** only a few years ago. **** is unfortunately common. This has never been a funny subject to me, and at the top of it I can't even relate COMPLETELY to it's meaning. So, for all of the unaware people here, no, the meaning of this word is far from the statement of funny.

If you guys want to have a hint of how offensive you are toward the victims of violation, just imagine that non-US people have never seen 2 of their towers fall because of airplanes. I personally have no emetional statement when I write "world trade center" because I am Canadian and I haven't lost anything to the event, neither did my country. But PROBABLY some of you has their stomach squeezed when they read this.

Now, just imagine we remplace the word "****" by "hit by two planes" how offensive it would be. Of course I am mixing up an inter-personal issue with a political one, I'm just trying to make people understand that some words used are meaningless to some people, when to other people they are very offensive.

I hope I made SOME people understand my point of view, and I hope the use of this word will be used less and less by our community. Honestly, we don't need such a strong word to define a 4 stock. Actually, "4 stocked", not only is it proper to the melee community, but it's also very symbolic to what happened in a match.

Thank you.
-Wak

 

[King5280]

this is a stupid debate. its just become a synonym for owned and should be viewed as such rather than people crying about it. its not like your gonna persuade many people to not say it if they feel like saying it cause they view the way the manner they use it is in a different way than you.

 

[ph00tbag]

this is a stupid debate. its just become a synonym for owned and should be viewed as such rather than people crying about it. its not like your gonna persuade many people to not say it if they feel like saying it cause they view the way the manner they use it is in a different way than you.

No one ever changed the world by staying in their nice, warm bed. It should be talked about, because it does hurt people, and remaining silent about it doesn't force anyone to think about it, which only enables it.

 

[Kal]

Wak:

1) We've gone over this idea of restricting your vocabulary to avoid offending people. Where do you draw the line? Advocating that we should avoid using a phrase in the presence of people who are offended by it is one thing. Asking us to avoid it altogether is another one altogether. Most of us aren't going to simply stop using any vocabulary solely because someone might be offended by it.

2) Thanks for ****** my eyes. Try a smaller font.

 

[Strong Badam]

yeah I agree with Kal it's so arbitrary

 

[Krynxe]

whats an arbitrary??

 

[ph00tbag]

Wak:

1) We've gone over this idea of restricting your vocabulary to avoid offending people. Where do you draw the line? Advocating that we should avoid using a phrase in the presence of people who are offended by it is one thing. Asking us to avoid it altogether is another one altogether. Most of us aren't going to simply stop using any vocabulary solely because someone might be offended by it.

As to the general question of drawing lines, you are already drawing a line. Your wording is moderate, and your tone inoffensive in this paragraph. If you argue that the arbitrary nature of the line is cause to ignore it, then why don't you? Something has you taking the thread seriously. It kept you from joining in the chorus of trolls posting "this thread *****" there at the beginning.

So you've drawn a line. The line is in an arbitrary place, and by your own argumentation, there's no reason for it to be there. Now, if you have enough respect for the topic to approach it sensibly, and draw that line at being a troll, and if that line is arbitrarily drawn anyway, why not change where you draw that line?

As to the more specific question of where the line is to be drawn, there are wholly inoffensive registers in the English language--even those which excise benign words that sound offensive. I suggest you start there. You may find the suggestion absurd, but I posit that it's more absurd to be crude when speaking to someone you do not know, simply because you can.

 

[Kal]

As to the general question of drawing lines, you are already drawing a line. Your wording is moderate, and your tone inoffensive in this paragraph. If you argue that the arbitrary nature of the line is cause to ignore it, then why don't you? Something has you taking the thread seriously. It kept you from joining in the chorus of trolls posting "this thread *****" there at the beginning.

Not using particular terminology is not the same as drawing a line; I'm simply not using said terminology. This doesn't mean I'm against using it. Regardless, I can personally choose to draw a line according to my subjective preferences without acting like everyone should do the same.

So you've drawn a line. The line is in an arbitrary place, and by your own argumentation, there's no reason for it to be there. Now, if you have enough respect for the topic to approach it sensibly, and draw that line at being a troll, and if that line is arbitrarily drawn anyway, why not change where you draw that line?

You're getting caught up on some serious nonsense here.

As to the more specific question of where the line is to be drawn, there are wholly inoffensive registers in the English language--even those which excise benign words that sound offensive. I suggest you start there. You may find the suggestion absurd, but I posit that it's more absurd to be crude when speaking to someone you do not know, simply because you can.

And I would agree with you. This is why I try to keep words like "****" and "gay" (as a pejorative) out of my vocabulary. I see good reason to avoid saying them: I don't find it classy, and I find it somewhat crude.

This, however, does not imply that I should condescendingly insist that others stop using it. The policy that I don't act sanctimonious about this exists because I know the line is arbitrarily drawn. And the line we've drawn, that the word "****" appears crude (despite there being a large subculture who uses it without constantly flinching), is absolutely arbitrary.

 

[GawdImFoxy]

"****" is an offensive word in some communities. In the smash subculture, it's just synonymous with "pwn." Being a smasher, you need to learn that real quick. And grow some thick skin. We have some veeeerry vulgar individuals in the smash community. But most of us fit in pretty well.

 

[Battlecow]

***** I don't buy music. I pirate that ****. Also I majored in math.

In all seriousness, you're just reiterating a point I've already addressed. Here you go.

People aren't going to change their opinion of us based on our use of the word. If we want people to think we're less repulsive, the stereotype that we are needs to disappear. Dropping the word "****" from our vocabulary won't make that happen.

I do, however, appreciate being called a linguistic and moral genius. Despite the fact that I think you were going for sarcasm, I am quite flattered.

So I said "People will think less of use if we use '****' like that"

And your rejoinder was "No they won't."

My rebuttal, then: They will, actually. People will go from indulging our eccentricities with a smile to frowning at us and doing their best to not associate with us if we convince them that we're greasy reprobates instead of lovable, if somewhat obsessive, nerds.

And why are you flattered? I was, as you so cleverly noted, being sarcastic.

Also you're a bad person for pirating music.

 

[Varist]

in the thread:

ph00tbag being a whiny beta.

**** is foine, ****** is foine, anally dry no spit is fine, don't act like a sheltered chinese girl.

if you don't want to be treated like a, quoth batturucao, "reprobate," then don't look like one. attractive people get to do whatever they want and people will love them, so go take ****ing baths and get that pizza paste off your face.

no one will ever see ugly fatties as lovable obsessive nerds, just people who smell like that cheesy rust on their old bike. ****in gross.

 

[frotaz37]

Seems Varist understands the real reason people look down on smashers. It definitely has nothing to do with the word ****.

 

[Massive]

in the thread:

ph00tbag being a whiny beta.

**** is foine, ****** is foine, anally dry no spit is fine, don't act like a sheltered chinese girl.

if you don't want to be treated like a, quoth batturucao, "reprobate," then don't look like one. attractive people get to do whatever they want and people will love them, so go take ****ing baths and get that pizza paste off your face.

no one will ever see ugly fatties as lovable obsessive nerds, just people who smell like that cheesy rust on their old bike. ****in gross.

It's like he knows... he knows.. HOW TO SUMMON THE WHITE-KNIGHTS!

 

[Kal]

So I said "People will think less of use if we use '****' like that"

And your rejoinder was "No they won't."

My rebuttal, then: They will, actually. People will go from indulging our eccentricities with a smile to frowning at us and doing their best to not associate with us if we convince them that we're greasy reprobates instead of lovable, if somewhat obsessive, nerds.

As Varist pointed out, people aren't going to "indulge our eccentricities" until we use the word ****. The word **** isn't going to change this. We'll go back and forth between this argument, since neither of us has any real evidence. I will, however, refer you to the stereotype present in nearly every aspect of the media which depicts nerds as "greasy reprobates" without having them use the word "****."

And why are you flattered? I was, as you so cleverly noted, being sarcastic.

It's almost like I was responding in kind. Based on your response about piracy, I'm must assume you think "sarcasm" is your intellectual property. Though I don't know if it would fall under patent or copyright law.

Also you're a bad person for pirating music.

False. Also real response.

Also, Varist wins for greatest poster in the history of time.

 

[Massive]

Also you're a bad person for pirating music.

I lol'd.

You should do standup.

 

[Calzum!]

People are wayyy over thinking this,

 

[Thanos828]

I'm gonna start using "hit by two planes" in place of "****"

 

[Wak]

Again, Kal, don't get me wrong, but this word probably doesn't have any meaning to you. This is why you estimate we are trying to get too far.

But you have to remember, we're not trying to get the word POTATO banned from our vocabulary there, we're just saying a metaphore of a sexual assault and violation of someone's sexuality will hurt inside, even years after the event. If you were relating, you'd have a different speech, let's get this clear.

I'd bet a thousand dollar if I changed "*****" by "hit by two planes", I'd get warned at some point.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'd bet a thousand dollar if I changed "*****" by "hit by two planes", I'd get warned at some point.

I highly doubt that.

Also, Varist, good job on the post.

 

[Kal]

Again, Wak, this is why I have no problem censoring myself under certain circumstances (e.g. if I know there is a **** victim around, I don't use the word). What I'm against is this sanctimonious attitude people take against those who use the term, and this idea that we should try and globally censor its use.

Do I find some things offensive? I sure as hell do. I just don't expect people to censor themselves for my own good. There is a big difference between saying "I don't use the word **** because I don't want to risk offending people, and I take this type of offense seriously" and "you should not use the word **** because you should not risk offending people and should take this type of offense seriously." You can prescribe for yourself whatever arbitrary rules you want to live by, but it's ridiculous to act as though everyone should see it the same way.

 

[Melomaniacal]

How do you feel when you read literature/poems/lyrics that use "****" similarly? Should writers, poets, and lyricists avoid using the language they choose to conform to your idea of right and wrong?

Look, no one here will argue that it's okay to run around yelling "****" in any setting. However, just as it would be wrong for someone to advocate that, it is wrong to advocate the opposite.

Personally, I think putting the word on such a high pedestal only serves to enforce its offensiveness. At the end of the day, words are words. We create words, we give them meaning, and we decide how much power they have. There is no metaphysical, spectral force guiding linguistics and deciding how much power a word has. You do it. I do it.

But I guess my main point is that while we should be sensitive to other people, the second we demand censorship of our language is the second we commit some of the worst crimes against ourselves. Some of the greatest and most important literature of recent history (and I would argue of all history) would not exist if, say, Allen Ginsberg was found guilty on the grounds of what you (those of you advocating the censorship of our community's vocabulary) are arguing. I know that we are not poets, and we are not a sociopolitical force, but the logic follows and demands to be protected for all communities, big and small. You need to remind yourself that no one here says **** just to be provocative and offensive.

Bottom line: yes, be sensitive to others' feelings; no, do not censor yourself. Express yourself how you want to express yourself, not in the confines of how other people want you to express yourself.

 

[Rockenos]

I like the term "****" for video games in general, but I think that's just because I'm just getting out of high school and I used it a lot in Middle School when that kind of thing seemed funny.
It's obviously an offensive word, so I mean, don't use it if you don't want to offend people... if you don't care, then use it.
Same goes for gay, ****, ****, ****, etc etc etc


Also, I still use "gay". A lot. Mostly because I have a lot of gay friends and we always play video games and call each other gay as a joke, but I could see how people could be offended by that.

inb4 the topic changes to the N word

 

[Varist]

grass transformation on PS

"get down from that tree *****"

this new commentary material, i am giving it to you for free. take it n words.