***

[Blistering Speed]

This is just a general thread I thought I'd make, a place where you can discuss any idea that popped into your head at the time and think may be helpful, but you don't really think is worth a topic. Casual talking is fine too, (I for example, just ate a tuna sandwich), but the main purpose of the thread should be for the progression of Sheik's metagame (I <3 buzzwords).

I'll start us off.

You know that D Smash of yours? That nifty fast attack that comes out frame 4 and does a decent amount of quick damage and works as a GTFO attack? The one that becomes a potential kill move at high percents or just sets up for edgeguards? STOP SPAMMING IT. This move is great and if you save it for higher percentages, it makes killing with Sheik one huge lump easier. Frame 4 speed and bang, perfect edgeguard position or even KO.

But how to stop spamming it? Well, it just so happens you have another move which comes out frame 4, it's F Tilt. Yep, its that move again, and guess what, that move can be spammed all day. Heck, it's recommended to spam that move all day, because if it's decayed it sets up F Tilt to U Smash combo (yep, this is all adding up to Sheik killing well). F Tilt also happens to combo for typically more damage then a D Smash, whether they're in F Tilt lock percent (because then it definately does) or not.

Your complaint? D Smash hits both sides? Turn around F Tilt. Train yourself to do it. Don't use D Smash as a reflex.

Phew, I patronised people a bit too much there...

Let the metagame revolution begin!

 

[JackieRabbit5]

sounds like a good idea to me

something i need to work on is not getting too overdependent on DACUS. Know when to just use hyphen smash or dash attack. Save DACUS as a surprise or after needles, fair, or grab release on chars like MK and it can be truly deadly.

 

[demodemo]

the range on dsmash is less than it looks

 

[East]

Does anyone know how many frames it takes for the Down Smash to hit behind sheik? I know it's probably much more than four, but I sometimes find myself getting punished cause it doesn't immediately hit behind.

 

[False Soundz]

This thread is exactly what we need to progress Sheik's future metagame and just discuss random ****.

I guess I have something on my mind that I'd like to say.

Sheiks grabs always lead to something. Even if you try to follow up with a fair and the opponent airdodges that doesn't mean it's over. From here you can regrab, ftilt or do w/e you want once hitting the ground. You can nair and hit with the weak tip of the nair if the opponent airdodges and then regrab or upsmash.

Just experiment with her grabs cause they always lead to something one way or another.


Also East, I think it hits on frame 23? I'm not sure, just check Ankoku's thread.

 

[Zankoku]

*sigh* I suppose I should stop procrastinating and actually finish up the frame data sometime.

 

[East]

This is always something I love to do as a mix-up out of throws:

Grab -> fthrow -> short hop -> fast fall -> Punish, cause chances are they've spot dodged.

 

[Flamingo]

Once response to grab is the aerial dodge once they know you are chasing them, my opponents have gone on a new approach and used dair (usually Lucas, Lucario, Olimar)... these are all disjointed hitboxes that linger (linger exception: Olimar). What do you guys suggest is the most effective way to counter this?

 

[Zankoku]

Run behind them and bair.

 

[East]

Knock the controller out of their hands. Controller Cancelling.

But really, for Lucas. He's got some hefty lag after his dair
Lucario I figure his is kind of nice, cause it holds him in place.
and I hate Olimars, so I'm not really sure what to tell you.

Would it be safe to assume that you could either

A. Ground chase after them, shield their attacks [it can't be perfect shield] and use the knockback from the attack to move back a little while they fall to just grab them again?

or...

B. Ground chase after them, dodge either left or right and regrab/punish them?

Just an idea?

 

[SinkingHigher]

Knock the controller out of their hands. Controller Cancelling.

Rofl

If there had been food in my mouth it would have ended up on my screen.

 

[Tristan_win]

~shrugs~

Recently I've been trying to improve my sheik killing potential and the two things I've been working on the most is..

1. Using the Usmash to kill horizontally
2. Location Location Location

The first one is self explanatory, I'm using the usmash side hits to kill people sooner then what the dsmash and fsmash could do. Anyways the second is using my killers near the outskirts of the stage instead of where ever I want.

Sheik killing power is to say the less not impressive at times but if you hit someone at say...right at the edge of FD you will be able to score a kill much easier and earlier then say doing it from the middle.

^_^ It's basic logic I need to apply more to my game.

 

[demodemo]

lol controller cancelling

why run behind them and bair when you can just quickly rar a bair? against many characters, there is simply no response but airdodge and hope you reach the ground, and roll backwards (since you can't shield grab bair). and since bair has good range and priority, it cuts through many aerials. NICE.

 

[Zankoku]

The idea is to bair them from the side, rather than approach them from directly below since they're using a dair. If you can accomplish that with a RAR, by all means go ahead.

 

[-Mars-]

So this is also a chat thread? I didn't know having fun was allowed on the Sheik boards.

 

[Soma]

If you are expecting a d-air out of a throw, why don't you just bait it and punish, fair into whatever, depending on percentage.

 

[Tristan_win]

So this is also a chat thread? I didn't know having fun was allowed on the Sheik boards.

It's not a chat thread but more of a idea thread and decision on those ideas.... at least that's what I'm telling myself.

 

[-Mars-]

Then it should be changed to "Sheik Metagame Discussion" like how other boards have it. We can't have a chat/metagame discussion thread.....that would be a disaster.

Edit: also, I tried to do something like this back in August and all I got was "Sheiks a basic character, nothing much to discuss" or "use ftilt a lot" and the thread quickly died.

 

[Squidster]

A guy walks into a bar and sees a large crowd of people. One of the guys in the crowd suddenly yells "24!" and the crowd burst out laughing. A few seconds later someone says, "12!" and another roar of laughter burst out from the crowd.
The man was puzzled so he walks up to the crowd. Someone gets up and starts talking to him.
"Why is everyone laughing hysterically at simple numbers?" said the man.
"Well we've decided that since we drink here so often, rather than retell the same stories or the same jokes, we'd simply number them! When we say a number it actually represents an entire joke! here, try it!"

The man walks up to the crowd and say "...33!"

After a few seconds of awkward silence and stares another man yells "41!" and another roar of laughter erupts.

The man goes back to his friend and says "... i don't get it! why didn't they respond?!"
His friend replies, "... it's the way you said it"

 

[Zankoku]

use ftilt a lot

 

[-Mars-]

use ftilt a lot

Lol see..........this is what I mean

/thread.

 

[False Soundz]

Lol noooo.

I have something, I reset Samus with a dash attack, then whenever I tried to do it again it didn't work, wtf happened?

 

[Steel]

Chat about the metagame obv.

 

[imdavid]

Do you guys know how effective the new DI momentum cancelling is for Sheik? I think I saw Ankoku did it in his latest vids as well as some really good spacing against Levitas's Marth. I was really impressed. Also, Ankoku did a needle while Marth was in the air which resulted in Marth turing around in mid-air allowing Ankoku to do an easy set-up afterwards. Situational or applicable?

 

[Tristan_win]

Do you guys know how effective the new DI momentum cancelling is for Sheik? I think I saw Ankoku did it in his latest vids as well as some really good spacing against Levitas's Marth. I was really impressed. Also, Ankoku did a needle while Marth was in the air which resulted in Marth turing around in mid-air allowing Ankoku to do an easy set-up afterwards. Situational or applicable?

"New" what new di momentum canceling are you talking about david?

and yes I think there is but only if your oppient uses his AAA attack a lot or uses a tether recovery.

I've personally have change direction of a samus trying to recover with tether and was able to edge guard them because they shot it the wrong way.


Anyways...I just realize something today against meta knight.

Grab at ledge, force air break short hop into chain, edge guard.... He's already at your height odds are the meta knight will try to break though which you can punish.

 

[Blistering Speed]

So this is also a chat thread? I didn't know having fun was allowed on the Sheik boards.

It's not, Shiek=serious business -__-

What I meant by chat thread is it can have more of a casual tone, so Squidster's joke isn't welcome, mainly because it was terrible.

@ Tristan: Thanks to the chain, Im actually starting to force edgeguards against MKs by staying near the edge as a way of building damage and this being close to the edge allows a faster KO by being near the edge (as you mentioned). Punishing MK's recovery for damage, who else can do that!?

 

[imdavid]

I thought Squiddy's joke was funny :D But I forgot to laught, har har har har

 

[Zankoku]

Do you guys know how effective the new DI momentum cancelling is for Sheik? I think I saw Ankoku did it in his latest vids as well as some really good spacing against Levitas's Marth. I was really impressed.

I've been doing fair > double jump to keep me alive since like August, lol. It's nothing new.

 

[Tristan_win]

It's not, Shiek=serious business -__-

What I meant by chat thread is it can have more of a casual tone, so Squidster's joke isn't welcome, mainly because it was terrible.

@ Tristan: Thanks to the chain, Im actually starting to force edgeguards against MKs by staying near the edge as a way of building damage and this being close to the edge allows a faster KO by being near the edge (as you mentioned). Punishing MK's recovery for damage, who else can do that!?

~coughs~ meta knight counter~ coughs~

I don't know, I highly doubt we are the only ones who can gimp meta knight to any degree. Like I know diddy dair will trade with his up B and kill at like 50% guaranteed.

 

[KRDsonic]

I personally like using Downsmash as the answer to all of my "I'm in a situation I don't like and I want out of it" problems :o Even if my opponent is above me. Good thing is that it makes them expect it so much that when I do something else it's a surprise.

Sliding back and forth on the stage with her DACUS is pretty fun too.

 

[Zankoku]

Using nair out of shield more often helps a lot in keeping the dsmash fresh, which is useful when your opponent is hard to hit with a strong nair but pretty easy to punish with a dsmash.

 

[False Soundz]

I've come up with a lot of Sheik tricks, posting all of them would be messy.

I'm going to a tournament soon, so I'll record some videos of the tricks used in matches.

 

[Tristan_win]

I've come up with a lot of Sheik tricks, posting all of them would be messy.

I'm going to a tournament soon, so I'll record some videos of the tricks used in matches.

Name two I haven't seen yet and I'll buy a hat, and take a picture of me eating it.

 

[Blad01]

Tristant Win definitly wants the title of Sheik master.

 

[Tristan_win]

Tristant Win definitly wants the title of Sheik master.

I would much rather have the title "King of Smash" then the title of Sheik master to tell you the truth.

Edit: I would also accept the title of the "Rock Lee of Smash" ~shakes fist at M2k~

 

[False Soundz]

Lmao, not AT's just some tricks.

(Laying on floor) Strong Nair->Dash attack(tip of dash attack)->Full Needle Throw->W/E(Since this causes reset)

Strong Nair->Full Needle Throw->One Needle->W/E

Basically a variation of the grab-release combos.

Grab->Air Release->Fair (On Edge) Certain characters can't dodge this.

(On Edge) Ledge drop, wall jump, Needle Charge Cancel (Rev. or non Rev.) Into fair or bair, and then grab the ledge again and do whatever you like from there.

I have more but I like to be unique and don't like to imitate or be imitated by people.

 

[Zankoku]

(On Edge) Ledge drop, wall jump, Needle Charge Cancel (Rev. or non Rev.) Into fair or bair, and then grab the ledge again and do whatever you like from there.

I don't see how the wall jump does anything helpful here.

 

[False Soundz]

It doesn't do anything helpful lol, I just posted up some cool thing's I found out. It's just a flashy *** stall, it's not efficient at all either. It can just be used in friendlies, the other one's on top can be used competitively, especially the reset combo's.

 

[-Mars-]

One thing i've been doing a lot recently is jab>jab>dtilt for shield pressure. If you space it properly there's no chance of you being shield grabbed by any character besides DDD.

Also one thing that bugs me about Sheik players is them following up a needle storm with a dash attack..........stop. I think your best option after a needle storm is to run into a shield and punish off of that. Even DACUS after needle storm is better because the shield pushback doesn't leave you so open for punishment.

Another thing i've been doing recently is dash attack OoS. IDA isn't the fastest option Sheik has, but if your trying to keep dsmash and nair fresh for KO percentages......dash attack suddenly becomes viable OoS. Thoughts?

 

[Zankoku]

You only need either nair or dsmash fresh, not both. Figure out whether it's easier to hit someone from the ground or from the air and decide which one you're going to use as quick punishment and which one to save for a finisher.