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Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

TaFoKiNtS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
1,027
That's a very fair point. The difference is also going to come down to how many play each character. Pikachad was also a very prominent Pikachu that long retired, so the questions that I have (which is probably going to be unanswerable, sadly) is the # of people that attempt each character (Pikachu vs Puff) and what % see a high level of success. Similar to Yoshi also, how many people have made a fair attempt to play Yoshi at a highly competent level? So is the lack of Yoshi results because Yoshi is a bad character or that only a few people have bothered to learn hi
 

Guzzler Guzzler

Melee Elitist
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
425
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
I feel that Ganon is a really solid character, he doesn't necessarily have a clear advantage over higher tiers but he is just all around solid. Also Ganon mains are getting better and better, Kage and Bizz have been pretty good for many years and Eikelmann has gotten really good recently. As for Samus like I said does very well against Fox. I don't think ICs are bad. Nor do I think they not a viable character in a tournament. I just think that Ganon and Samus are just a little bit better than ICs.
Kage hasn't done **** in years, Bizz is good but not that good and Eikelmann hasn't done anything near notable. Meanwhile Wobbles got SECOND at EVO 2013, while Fly, Nintendude, and Chu consistently place highly at tournaments.
 

Danny of AD 1

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
129
i honestly think jigglypuff has a bottom tier shield who may be even or worse than game and watch's
 

Cursetyl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
20
Location
Kansas
NNID
Cursetyl
1. Fox (A)
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Peach
6. Puff
7. Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Pikachu (B)
10. Samus
11. Doctor Mario
12. Luigi
13. Ganondorf
14. Yoshi
15. Mario (C)
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. DK
19. Game and Watch (D)
20. Zelda
21. Roy
22. Ness
23. Mewtwo
24. Pichu (F)
25. Bowser
26. Kirby
 

AJawesome07

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Washington
7: Ice Climbers: Can compete with any character other than Peach. Wobbles has gotten 2nd, and there are many high level IC's.
8: Captain Falcon: Has trouble competing with Fox/Falco/Sheik, but always stands a chance. Sadly, has not seen success in years akin to IC's, and I'd argue isn't capable of as much as them.
Huh? This just isn't true. Falcons still place well at locals across the world and even the largest regional tournaments, such as S2J getting 4th at BAM7, among other examples. Yes, I understand that Wobbles got 2nd at Evo 2013 and Fly got 2nd at Press Start, but overall, Falcons have absolutely placed better than ICs. Also, Falcon has a pretty strong MU against ICs.
 

anshin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
10
idgi how has falcon placed better than ics? you just mentioned how wobbles got 2nd at evo when falcon has never placed that high. and overall if you look at the results of chu, fly, nintendude, they have all placed better overall than falcons.
 
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Sir Bubbles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
233
Location
East Brunswick, NJ
Huh? This just isn't true. Falcons still place well at locals across the world and even the largest regional tournaments, such as S2J getting 4th at BAM7, among other examples. Yes, I understand that Wobbles got 2nd at Evo 2013 and Fly got 2nd at Press Start, but overall, Falcons have absolutely placed better than ICs. Also, Falcon has a pretty strong MU against ICs.
Considering that there are 3x as many Falcons as there are ICs and that Evo 2013 was way bigger than BAM7 will ever be, Eddy's point still stands IMO.

Atleast as ICs you can play against spacies like a normal character without having to worry about automatically losing lol.
 
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TrustyBag

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Messages
10
Location
Chicago, IL
Kage hasn't done **** in years, Bizz is good but not that good and Eikelmann hasn't done anything near notable. Meanwhile Wobbles got SECOND at EVO 2013, while Fly, Nintendude, and Chu consistently place highly at tournaments.
Wobbles hasn't really done anything since his 2nd place at EVO and Chu hasn't done anything in years. I will say Nintendude and Fly have a lot of potential. But I just feel like Samus and Ganon are still better.
 

MegaMagikarp

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
11
Location
Cincinnati Ohio
I wont make a full tier list but
Pikachu destroys Fox and Falco, i personally believe the matchup is 50-50 though i know thats unpopular.
Jigglypuff will continue to drop.
Luigi > Doc
Ices > Captain Falcon
Marth > Sheik (obv)
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Yeah, Pika vs Spaces isn't as bad as many think because of the chaingrab.
 

Splendid

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Middlebury. VT
S Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Marth
4. Sheik

A Tier
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers

B Tier
9. Luigi
10. Yoshi
11. Pikachu
12. Samus
13. Dr. Mario

C Tier
14. Ganondorf
15. Mario
16. Young Link
17. Link

F Tier
18. Donkey Kong
19. Mewtwo
20. Mr. Game & Watch
21. Roy
22. Zelda
23. Ness
24. Pichu
25. Bowser
26. Kirby
 

Scaremonger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
192
Location
News Flash ***** you're not a real gamer
Pikachu is terrible vs spacies. The spacey matchup is debatably worse than the Sheik matchup to me. Fox outprioritizes Pikachu so hard and Pikachu can at least crossup on shields vs Sheik, but that loses to shine/bair OoS vs spacies. Fox can abuse CC pretty hard whereas Pikachu has to work a lot harder to get around it. Pikachu's low percent game is just bad in general vs spacies since CCing is bad and he doesn't have reliably guaranteed followups off of throws until like 20-25% (some things are "guaranteed" before that percent, but require multiple frame perfect inputs to execute in a way that's guaranteed).

Pikachu has a decent punish game, but spacies punish pretty hard too. A lot of Pikachu's gimp setups are pretty gimmicky, really, and are avoidable for the spacey.

I dunno why people seem to think Pikachu is really good all of a sudden, because he's pretty bad. He looks less bad on screen, I guess, because Axe is amazing and Pikachu is fast enough to win through playing the player in a bad matchup. Still, Pikachu is pretty garbage overall.
 
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kingPiano

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
574
Pikachu is terrible vs spacies. The spacey matchup is debatably worse than the Sheik matchup to me. Fox outprioritizes Pikachu so hard and Pikachu can at least crossup on shields vs Sheik, but that loses to shine/bair OoS vs spacies. Fox can abuse CC pretty hard whereas Pikachu has to work a lot harder to get around it. Pikachu's low percent game is just bad in general vs spacies since CCing is bad and he doesn't have reliably guaranteed followups off of throws until like 20-25% (some things are "guaranteed" before that percent, but require multiple frame perfect inputs to execute in a way that's guaranteed).

Pikachu has a decent punish game, but spacies punish pretty hard too. A lot of Pikachu's gimp setups are pretty gimmicky, really, and are avoidable for the spacey.

I dunno why people seem to think Pikachu is really good all of a sudden, because he's pretty bad. He looks less bad on screen, I guess, because Axe is amazing and Pikachu is fast enough to win through playing the player in a bad matchup. Still, Pikachu is pretty garbage overall.
I guess Westballz, Silentwolf, and Mango just can't seem to avoid those gimmicks....over and over and over again.

"Pikachu is pretty garbage overall" lol this kid. We need less of this on smashboards.


Kingpiano, do you got an account on the smash ladder? I want to play you PM or melee
No I don't, unfortunately I don't play online at all. Mostly because I've never taken the time to set it up and I don't do emulators.
 
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EddyBearr

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
1,202
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Huh? This just isn't true. Falcons still place well at locals across the world and even the largest regional tournaments, such as S2J getting 4th at BAM7, among other examples. Yes, I understand that Wobbles got 2nd at Evo 2013 and Fly got 2nd at Press Start, but overall, Falcons have absolutely placed better than ICs. Also, Falcon has a pretty strong MU against ICs.
At majors since 2013 (Apex x3, Evo x2, MLG, TBH4)
2nd: :icsmelee: (Evo 2013)
7th: :falconmelee: (Apex 2013) :icsmelee: (Evo 2014)
9th::falconmelee::icsmelee:
13th::falconmelee::falconmelee::falconmelee::falconmelee:
17th: :falconmelee::falconmelee::falconmelee::falconmelee::icsmelee::icsmelee::icsmelee::icsmelee::icsmelee::icsmelee::icsmelee:
25 / 29th: :falconmelee::falconmelee::falconmelee::falconmelee::falconmelee::icsmelee: :icsmelee::icsmelee::icsmelee:
Total top 32: :falconmelee:x15 ; :icsmelee:x14

It's comparable until you look at IC's getting 2nd, though there's something funny about that monopoly on getting 13th.


Apex 2015 in particular, as the most recent Major:
9th :icsmelee: Nintendude
17th: :icsmelee: Fly Amanita ; :falconmelee: S2J
25th: :icsmelee: Chu Dat


At regionals or small nationals this year: (Paragon, INY, Sandstorm, GOML, Press Start, Super Nebs 3*)
*Super Nebs 3 was intentionally saturated with Falcons, giving Falcon an extra Jeapie @ 7th and maybe Wizzrobe @ 5th.
*Locals, outside of perhaps very saturated ones in SoCal, NorCal, or Florida, shouldn't really be looked at -- Kirby wins locals pretty often in MN, but this doesn't necessarily mean Kirby is better than Mario, who doesn't win locals anywhere
*BAM is not a regional or small national given the playerbase. There were only 7 players who weren't from Oceania there -- it was basically a SoCal local.

2nd: :falconmelee::icsmelee:
3rd: :icsmelee:
5th: :falconmelee:
7th: :falconmelee::falconmelee:

Falcon would have an edge in regionals or small nationals this year as long as you don't discredit Jeapie being flown in. If you do discredit that, then I'd say it's roughly even.

So overall, IC's have done better than Falcon at majors since 2013, have done about comparably to Falcon at large regionals in 2015, and did far better than Falcon at Apex 2015. I think it's pretty clear IC's place better.


--

Falcon beats IC's, sure. IC's beat Sheik. Sheik beats Falcon.


---

Pikachu is indeed pretty awful against spacies. Axe thinks the matchups are quite bad -- the Pika boards think the matchups are quite bad.
 
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Scaremonger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
192
Location
News Flash ***** you're not a real gamer
I guess Westballz, Silentwolf, and Mango just can't seem to avoid those gimmicks....over and over and over again.

"Pikachu is pretty garbage overall" lol this kid. We need less of this on smashboards.
Where did I say everything was a gimmick? Pikachu can definitely get some cheesy gimps by the ledge, and a smart player like Westballz/Colbol/SFAT is going to fall into it much LESS than many other players (key word is "less").

And by calling Pikachu bad did I... offend you...? I didn't realize that saying a character was bad is now offensive, lmao. Like I play Kirby in tournament, but I'm pretty aware that he's essentially a useless horrible character. I've never taken offense to someone saying he's bad, because... he is. Obviously Pikachu is not as god-awful as Kirby, but everyone outside the top 9 is pretty bad relative to the top tier, dude, it's just really hard to win with them.

and @ EddyBearr EddyBearr , I don't think it's possible to place Falcon below ICs. Falcon, even in the manner that he's currently represented, does not even come close to having matchups as bad as Peach-ICs. Falcon and Fox are also nearly unwinnable. There also may have been more high placing ICs, but there's also just way more top ICs mains. There are like 4 great ICs mains and like 2 really top level Falcons. The comparison is really not very fair.
 
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Cassio

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,185
Pikachu is terrible vs spacies. The spacey matchup is debatably worse than the Sheik matchup to me. Fox outprioritizes Pikachu so hard and Pikachu can at least crossup on shields vs Sheik, but that loses to shine/bair OoS vs spacies. Fox can abuse CC pretty hard whereas Pikachu has to work a lot harder to get around it. Pikachu's low percent game is just bad in general vs spacies since CCing is bad and he doesn't have reliably guaranteed followups off of throws until like 20-25% (some things are "guaranteed" before that percent, but require multiple frame perfect inputs to execute in a way that's guaranteed).

Pikachu has a decent punish game, but spacies punish pretty hard too. A lot of Pikachu's gimp setups are pretty gimmicky, really, and are avoidable for the spacey.

I dunno why people seem to think Pikachu is really good all of a sudden, because he's pretty bad. He looks less bad on screen, I guess, because Axe is amazing and Pikachu is fast enough to win through playing the player in a bad matchup. Still, Pikachu is pretty garbage overall.
Where did I say everything was a gimmick? Pikachu can definitely get some cheesy gimps by the ledge, and a smart player like Westballz/Colbol/SFAT is going to fall into it much LESS than many other players (key word is "less").

And by calling Pikachu bad did I... offend you...? I didn't realize that saying a character was bad is now offensive, lmao. Like I play Kirby in tournament, but I'm pretty aware that he's essentially a useless horrible character. I've never taken offense to someone saying he's bad, because... he is. Obviously Pikachu is not as god-awful as Kirby, but everyone outside the top 9 is pretty bad relative to the top tier, dude, it's just really hard to win with them.
Theres no reason to post your misinformation here, and besides you put falcon at third and he gets stomped by spacies in results reliably. You misunderstand priority, his low % combos or how pikachus cross-ups work if thats your thoughts on the matter.
 
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Comet7

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,027
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
NNID
Comet7
i honestly think jigglypuff has a bottom tier shield who may be even or worse than game and watch's
jigglypuff's shield actually covers her. in the event that either of their shields break they should both be dead since they are extremely light.

pikachu vs spacies is bad because the spacies just beat him in neutral most of the time. they pretty much just try to dd each other for an opening and poke every once in a while, and fox is better at converting hits and poking in most scenarios. pikachu also has bad techs and get up rolls so that just makes a stray shine more effective on him. and yeah pikachu can punish fox harder most of the time but fox things also wreck pikachu.
 

Scaremonger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
192
Location
News Flash ***** you're not a real gamer
Theres no reason to post your misinformation here, and besides you put falcon at third and he gets stomped by spacies in results reliably. You misunderstand priority, his low % combos or how pikachus cross-ups work if thats your thoughts on the matter.
Wanna tell me what's misinformation? I've played this matchup a lot with the local Pikachu player, I talk about it a lot with another Pikachu main in a skype group, and I've analyzed Pikachu matches. The matchup sucks, dude.

Quoting past results of Falcon is not nearly as relevant because Falcon's entire playerbase has historically been 99.9% ****ty scrubs. Watch S2J play against spacies, look at the possible techniques he straight up refuses to do, and consider that maybe the average Falcon gets stomped by spacies because there's only one Falcon in the world that truly plays neutral against them well (and that Falcon has a pretty significant amount of glaring flaws otherwise) and that the character himself is super undeveloped.
 

Cassio

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,185
We've already been over this several times elsewhere. In any case, whats the point of calling falcons player base bad then treating friends you have that play pikachu as a gold standard?
 
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MegaMagikarp

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
11
Location
Cincinnati Ohio
You playing some random at a local =/= Pikachu as a whole.

Im not arguing Pikachu is god tier as it has some unfavorable matchups but in terms of playing spacies it has a ton of **** it can do.
 

Scaremonger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
192
Location
News Flash ***** you're not a real gamer
You playing some random at a local =/= Pikachu as a whole.

Im not arguing Pikachu is god tier as it has some unfavorable matchups but in terms of playing spacies it has a ton of **** it can do.
For the 2nd time, the local pikachu player is not my only source of information, lol. Dunno why everyone is skipping over the entire rest of that sentence.

Mewtwo doesn't have real hitboxes either. But yes. Tell Blue Zaft I think about spawning tiny platforms in NSMBU all the time.
woah wait how do you know I'm in the same area as Bluezaft? I'll tell him anyway, lol.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
The spacies definitely have an advantage over pikachu. Virutally every character can 0-death them with juggles, tech chases and edge guards, so Pikachu is not very special in that regard. What is important is the neutral. I think Scaremonger explained it correctly, Pikachu cannot cross-up fox's shield the same way he could sheik's simply because of shine OoS. On other characters pikachu can cross up nair -> uair and be safe.

Pikachu's neutral game is similar to Falcon's: threaten with your aerial momentum while spacing with your dash and shield. Fox's SHDL alone is enough to tip an even neutral game into a losing neutral game, but Fox also has the priority and speed advantage on Pikachu. Falco shuts down Pikachu similarly, lasers are a big issue for him on the horizontal for obvious reasons, and Pikachu isn't particularly good at approaching from the platforms.

Ya'll are just spoiled on Axe so much you think that **** is easy.

Theres no reason to post your misinformation here, and besides you put falcon at third and he gets stomped by spacies in results reliably. You misunderstand priority, his low % combos or how pikachus cross-ups work if thats your thoughts on the matter.
We've already been over this several times elsewhere. In any case, whats the point of calling falcons player base bad then treating friends you have that play pikachu as a gold standard?
Good arguments brah. Brawl Back Room sure cultivates high level discussion these days.
 
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Guzzler Guzzler

Melee Elitist
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
425
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
Wobbles hasn't really done anything since his 2nd place at EVO and Chu hasn't done anything in years. I will say Nintendude and Fly have a lot of potential. But I just feel like Samus and Ganon are still better.
Because Wobbles quit after EVO. Do you have any idea what you're talking about? He also took a set off of mew2king since then when m2k was still focusing on melee
 

EddyBearr

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
1,202
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
The spacies definitely have an advantage over pikachu. Virutally every character can 0-death them with juggles, tech chases and edge guards, so Pikachu is not very special in that regard. What is important is the neutral. I think Scaremonger explained it correctly, Pikachu cannot cross-up fox's shield the same way he could sheik's simply because of shine OoS. On other characters pikachu can cross up nair -> uair and be safe.

Pikachu's neutral game is similar to Falcon's: threaten with your aerial momentum while spacing with your dash and shield. Fox's SHDL alone is enough to tip an even neutral game into a losing neutral game, but Fox also has the priority and speed advantage on Pikachu. Falco shuts down Pikachu similarly, lasers are a big issue for him on the horizontal for obvious reasons, and Pikachu isn't particularly good at approaching from the platforms.

Ya'll are just spoiled on Axe so much you think that **** is easy.
Another thing I notice is that every time Axe loses, people say he was "playing bad" but watching his play, it doesn't seem like he's playing bad -- Pikachu is just really hard to play well, and Axe has been pushing the character to its limits. It's not like Falco or etc where a smaller mistake is so much harder to notice or affect gameplay.
 
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Cassio

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,185
Good arguments brah. Brawl Back Room sure cultivates high level discussion these days.
Good advice breh, maybe next time you can use it to actually win vs pikachu.

Scaremonger (and Eddy) made sure to let everyone know his opinion on the Pikachu-Fox MU anytime it's brought up on the internet and I'm not interested in rehashing discussion for this.
 
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DeepDish

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
84
Location
Southern Ontario, Canada
SS Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco

S Tier
3. Marth
4. Sheik

A Tier
5. Peach
6. Jigglypuff
7. Captain Falcon

B Tier
8. Ice Climbers
9. Samus
10. Luigi
11. Dr. Mario
12. Pikachu
13. Yoshi
14. Ganondorf

C Tier
15. Mario
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. Donkey Kong

D Tier
19. Roy
20. Mr. Game & Watch
21. Mewtwo

E Tier
22. Ness
23. Pichu
24. Kirby
25. Zelda
26. Bowser
 
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Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Maybe the thread title should be changed to:

2015 Community Tier List Voting (And Why Everyone Else's Tier Lists Are Wrong)
 

DeepDish

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
84
Location
Southern Ontario, Canada
Maybe the thread title should be changed to:

2015 Community Tier List Voting (And Why Everyone Else's Tier Lists Are Wrong)
Can't tell what you're trying to do here. I'm saying he's wrong because I strongly disagree. I understand it's his opinion, and I think it's absolutely absurd, but it's his opinion. I'm not saying that he's empirically wrong exactly, but god dammit it's debatable.

Laudandus, I really don't get your justification for Falco being 5th. Best projectile in the game, shine and amazing combo ability. You're really talking down the power of lasers.

Definitely has much better tools and options than Falcon and Sheik in the neutral. They both have good combo ability, but I'd say Falco's is better. Marth is debatable due to Marth's speed and ability to deal with lasers. While Sheik can weave/PS through lasers, she's much slower. Falcon has a much harder time dealing with lasers than both of those characters.

Played more defensively/campy, how do his tough floaty matchups (Samus/Jiggly/Peach) actually beat him? You use the speed argument for losing to Falcon and Marth while Falco's faster than the three previously mentioned characters. It's hard for him to play super aggro against those 3 and win, but a defensive Falco should win those matchups.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
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Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Can't tell what you're trying to do here. I'm saying he's wrong because I strongly disagree. I understand it's his opinion, and I think it's absolutely absurd, but it's his opinion. I'm not saying that he's empirically wrong exactly, but god dammit it's debatable.

Laudandus, I really don't get your justification for Falco being 5th. Best projectile in the game, shine and amazing combo ability. You're really talking down the power of lasers.

Definitely has much better tools and options than Falcon and Sheik in the neutral. They both have good combo ability, but I'd say Falco's is better. Marth is debatable due to Marth's speed and ability to deal with lasers. While Sheik can weave/PS through lasers, she's much slower. Falcon has a much harder time dealing with lasers than both of those characters.

Played more defensively/campy, how do his tough floaty matchups (Samus/Jiggly/Peach) actually beat him? You use the speed argument for losing to Falcon and Marth while Falco's faster than the three previously mentioned characters. It's hard for him to play super aggro against those 3 and win, but a defensive Falco should win those matchups.
I'm not directing that at anyone in particular, just saying that there are more arguments than votes on this voting thread. I actually completely agree with you that Falco should be placed MUCH higher than he got on that list.
 
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keymanb

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
95
Location
Minneapolis, MN
I'm not directing that at anyone in particular, just saying that there are more arguments than votes on this voting thread. I actually completely agree with you that Falco should be placed MUCH higher than he got on that list.
Like 2nd? I know no time soon falco will take fox's spot. But the only 2 exceptional characters who can even have an argument against fox is falco and marth. Those two should be 2nd and 3rd.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Like 2nd? I know no time soon falco will take fox's spot. But the only 2 exceptional characters who can even have an argument against fox is falco and marth. Those two should be 2nd and 3rd.
Marth or Shiek are pretty close for 3rd in my opinion, but I agree that Falco should be 2nd.
 

Sir Bubbles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
233
Location
East Brunswick, NJ
Like 2nd? I know no time soon falco will take fox's spot. But the only 2 exceptional characters who can even have an argument against fox is falco and marth. Those two should be 2nd and 3rd.
Laudandus is known for making ridiculous accusations about Falcon, even going as far as to make a Facebook Falcon hate group, along with Hax...

You know you're wrong as soon as you make a Facebook hate group of a video game character.
 
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