148.41 - Solid Snake's Hitbox AND Frame Data

[Underload]

I love the collapse tags, but sadly every .gif is this:

 

[A New England Winter]

Apparently Snake needs to Upgrade to Pro today

 

[etecoon]

How would I go about finding frame advantage?

shield stun + hit on - shield lag - end or IASA = advantage on shield

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

........
I'll do something about the broken images after I clean under my sink.
Fortunately, I uploaded all the gifs to imageshack.

OK. There are in URL form for the time being.
CLick the URL and you'll get the GIF in a new tab.

 

[Underload]

I like that frame data / matchup thread title symmetry. Also, I only recently found out that the DARPA Chief was Sigint. I was a bit mind****ed after that...

 

[Limeee]

can't wait for frame advantage

we might find something new, you never know

 

[etecoon]

I like that frame data / matchup thread title symmetry. Also, I only recently found out that the DARPA Chief was Sigint. I was a bit mind****ed after that...

I'd considered the possibility but it mind ****ed me as in "holy **** kojima will do ANYTHING no matter how stupid to create ridiculous plot twists"

MGS2 and 4 have made me pretty numb to these kinds of things :/ MGS3 da bess

 

[Veril]

If anyone is working on getting the first hit f-tilt advantage on hit permutations let me know. It's a move I've been planning to look into in detail.

btw, this is the best brawl frame data thread. Period. I've read through dozens of them and only a few are even close to being this detailed and accurate. Snake mains should buy the OP a cake or something.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I just want a solution to my ThrowN/Shield problem.
Too small to be usable.



I'll do frame advantage for the jab and ftilt(probably the two most imrpotant moves to be doing) later this week.

 

[Veril]

f-tilt x1 doesn't induce tumble iirc which means you've got your work cut out if you want the adv on hit formula across the cast with accurate growth points and taking into account characters options if you're taking advantage of the iasa rather than tilt flow.

I was actually planning on doing this test myself on MK. If you want I can post my methods (this will probably help you quite a bit seeing as it has with every other frame expert I've worked with), results and analysis.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

That would be nice, thank you.

.......
Jab 1(ON THE GROUND)

There are 2 different trajectories depending on where they get hit.
If the foe is very close to Snake, they will slide away barely.
If they get hit with the tip of his knuckles, they will bounce up.
I need more time to do this.

 

[Reyney]

id like to know some frame things:
shield/shield drop
walking shield
dashing/running shield

 

[Limeee]

i'll do frame advantage for the jab and ftilt(probably the two most imrpotant moves to be doing) later this week.

???

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

EY, rPSI said not to worry because Smashlab will be taking care of it.

...................................................

 

[SuSa]

EY, Eternal Yoshi, you better name search.

I'd like frame drop, otherwise I'm just going to assume it's what was in my old data...

 

[LordMurderHammer]

You used the roll gif for Edge Jump(over 100%)

Rolls and Dodges
-Edge Actions
--Edge Jump(Over 100%)

just wanted to help

 

[Beautiful Death]

HHeeeeeellllllllooooooooo yyyyeeeeeeelllllloooooowwwwwww!!!!!!

Wondering. Anyone know the frame disadvantage on the first part of Snack's F-Tilt?

I suppose it would be like, super DOOPER easy to test but....... don't have a Wii. Yup.

I guess it is pointless knowing the exact number kinda. This ain't a traditional fighter. I dunno. I just

am curious george.

......And if someone doesn't tell me, I will be furious george. Yes indeed.

Errrmm. I'm talking on block here. Or shield, rather. Yeah.

 

[-Ran]

-5 is the shield advantage.

 

[Beautiful Death]

Oh thanks dudemanbro.

Mmmm. That is too cool. Man. I thought I was a fool for spamming F-Tilt on shields. I was like

"DUDE. GET AHOLD OF YOURSELF. F-TILT IS A PUNISHER, NOT A GOL-DARNED APPROACH MOVE."

But -5? I suppose I was actually being a BA.

I'm going to win a tournament one day and dedicate it to your name, just you wait.

 

[-Ran]

-5 means that it isn't in your favor, but if you're spaced well, due to the retraction of Snake's hitbox, it becomes harder to punish for most characters. Usually this will absolve nontethers from grabbing you, and will regulate them to using down or forward tilts. Even still, many characters do not have a move that has a long enough range to punish Snake, or the willingness to put the hitbox out for fear of the second part of Forward tilt. It is a very viable 'trap' to do every once and awhile, especially if you have reduced your opponent's shield previously to doing this. This usually leads to people staying in shield longer [especially if they are high percent] due to fear.

 

[Beautiful Death]

Ah, man. I know what frame stuff means. I was just wondering. But now that I think about it.

-5 seems too good. Like, I believe that is better then just about EVERY other ground attack in Brawl. Really really.

Just to clear this up.

Did you mean -5 with or without shield drop? That'll kinda make a difference, see.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it was -12. -5 is like DUDE. THIS ISN'T BRAWL ANYMORE. Really really.

 

[Attila_]

-5 means it can be shieldgrabbed by all no tethers. This is rather important.

 

[Beautiful Death]

Errr I beg your pardon yer honor but I believe that is incorrect.

Look dude. I'm not walking around and doing F-Tilt at POINT BLANK RANGE. (Well actually, I do. It's ALASKA. I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!)

But uh, ideally I'd be poking with it, ya dig? And due to some super awesome hitbox on Mr. Snack's F-Tilt, I am like, a bazillion light years out of like, anyone's grab range.

And even if I DID do F-Tilt right in someone’s face for some reason, hey. You shouldn’t be doing that, but all is not lost. SPAM SPOTDODGE. ALWAYS. As in, since F-Tilt is only –5 you can spotdodge as soon as possible right after it’s blocked. 7 frame startup shield grab versus spotdodge on frame 7. Thanks invincibility. I’ve always wanted to play a Smash where everyone has Tager’s backdash.

Of course. If they predict that you’re going to spam dodge then you lose. What I mean to say is that it’s not a guaranteed shieldgrab at point-blank range. And once you’re out of grab range ( which you should be. Look at all that lovely RANGE. Don’t just SIT there! USE IT!!!!!! ) you’re golden.

Anyway. I know what frame data means. I used to play traditional fighters like Blaz. And stuff and stuff.

I would just like to know if this -5 is PRE or POST shield drop. That kinda is a big difference, see.

Yeah, yeah. Guess I can see it. Looking at Lucario's numbers, he has some safe stuff. HIS F-Tilt is only -6, so they say. But on the other hand, Lucario's F-Tilt doesn't do like 500 damage, have like 3 yards of range, and a 4 frame startup. Dunno about the range.

Mmmm hmmm hmmm. Lovely character.

Hmmm. A lot of Link's stuff is really nice. Well, Nair, Bair, Fair, and Zair. I should do this more often. I lllllooooooovvvvvveeeeeee fffffaaaaarrrrmmmmmm data!

Now that I think on it, I didn’t take pushback into account. You know, when your attack is blocked, your opponent slides back a bit. Of course, it’s just F-Tilt so I think it would be a miniscule amount. Still. It is the icing on the already oh-so-snakey cake.

4 startup/-5/giant range that’s all.

 

[Attila_]

No.

You're wrong.

Most grabs come out on frame 6.

That means we can be grabbed one frame after the move ends.

And our spotdodge is waaaay too slow for that.

-5 advantage means we have a 5 frame disadvantage.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

-5 is the shield advantage.

Source ?

 

[-Ran]

It's -5 if linking to Ftilt 2 against a shield. If not, there's no IASA frames. That means the move ends up frame 32, which puts the advantage to -26. This is through using the mathematical formula for Frame advantage, I could do the frame by frame code later and verify.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ohh if linking. Sure thing.

 

[Crackle]

Where are the get up frame data! I need them NOW

And am i readign correctly that ftilt1 on shield is 26 frame advantage? Does that mean we can ftilt1 shield then walk up and grab? That can't be correct

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Minus 26 obviously

 

[-Ran]

I'm feeling nice today:

Move AdoB Hitframe Damage MoveIASA HitlagX
Jab1 -2 3 4 6 1
Jab2 -1 4 3 6 1
Jab3 -35 10 7 47 1
Jab1NoLink -12 3 4 16 1
Ftilt1 -5 4 8 11 1
Ftilt2 -21 6 12 31 1
Ftilt1 No Link -26 4 8 32 1
UpTilt -28 6 13 38 1
Dtilt -26 6 10 35 1
Dash Attack -34 5 11 42 1
F-Smash -33 41 22 81 1
Usmash -41 11 4 53 1
Mortar -21 29 10 53 1
D-smash 4 1 14 1 1
Nair1AC -38 10 6 50 1
Nair2AC -27 22 5 50 1
Nair3AC -15 34 4 50 1
Nair4AC -2 44 13 50 1
Nair1 -56 10 6 68 1
Nair2 -45 22 5 68 1
Nair3 -33 34 4 68 1
Nair4 -20 44 13 68 1
Fair -36 23 14 63 1
Uair -18 14 14 36 1
Dair1 -55 3 6 60 1
Dair2 -45 14 5 60 1
Dair3 -34 25 5 60 1
Dair4 -20 36 12 60 1
BairStart -51 7 16 63 1
Bairend -33 27 10 63 1
Nikita -37 43 7 82 1
C4 -6 29 17 40 1
Grenade 5 1 12 0 1
Nikita Falling 3 1 7 0 1
Nikitia Strong -35 43 14 82 1

 

[F A N G]

Can Jab 2 be canceled? If so, what's the AdoB for it? If not, nevermind

Thanks for all this!

 

[-Ran]

Jab 2 can only be canceled into Jab 3.

 

[Attila_]

good **** ran.

Jab 2 can only be canceled into Jab 3.

this explain A LOT. wondering why i never seemed to get the cancel.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

"First IASA Frame – 6(jab 3 only)"
lol It's been here the whole time.

Has hitlag been done for that list yet? Most moves are 6 frames hitlag, so it seems weird to have it listed as only 1. I know Jab1 is 6 frames for sure.

 

[-Ran]

That's the hitlag multiplier which is used in the formula to derive shield advantage. I've had this for over a year, I just didn't see a reason to post it. Haha.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You KNOW just how lang I searched for Snake shield advantages T___T

 

[Crackle]

Sorry for asking but what is ADoB?

 

[F A N G]

Advantage On Block (Shield)

 

[-Ran]

I couldn't sleep, so here.

Grenade
Total Frames
Pulls Pin at 10
Duration
Finishes Pin Pulling animation at 24
Duration of throws
Close Grenade Throw - 26
Normal Grenade throw - 28
Far Grenade Throw - 32
Miscellaneous – The grenade data is not in FitSnake.pac. I think it’s in the common3.pac file.
Maybe I can use Kirby Snake’s file.

Shield drop grenade
25th frame, shield start up. Grenade starts to drop.
31st frame, shield is fully down. Grenade is near Snake's ankle.

Shield drop grenade to grabbing item.
25th frame, shield start up. Grenade starts to drop.
39th frame, Snake grabs item, noise is made.
45th frame, Snake has finished grabbing the item animation. Free to move.
+21 frames if you throw forwards.

Shield drop grenade to jump to instant throw.
25th frame, shield start up. Grenade starts to drop.
34th frame, Snake grabs grenade, noise made.
37th frame, Snake begins instant throw.
43rd frame, Snake throws item. Visibly out of hand.
61st frame, Snake can act again.

Grenade/item on ground to jump to instant throw.
10th frame, Grabs item.
18th frames, item is thrown/out of Snake's hand.
36th frame, Snake is free to do another action.

It takes Snake nine frames to instant throw an item forward assuming he's in the air already.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Isnt shield startup 7?