140.85 - The Solid Snake Matchup Database

[smashkng]

snake, diddy and falco all lose to mk. its fact.

they can win, but they have to work harder, and cant make as many mistakes as the mk. they dont win.

Snake can definitely make more misstakes than MK because he both kill at only 100% and lives much longer than MK. Plus, Snake can punish misstakes with 21% damage. However, this doesn't mean Snake beats MK overall, although he does beat him in FD and Halberd.

 

[Attila_]

Snake can definitely make more misstakes than MK because he both kill at only 100% and lives much longer than MK. Plus, Snake can punish misstakes with 21% damage. However, this doesn't mean Snake beats MK overall, although he does beat him in FD and Halberd.

so wrong.

if snakes dtilted offstage, or grab released, or chased to the ledge, he should die. simple. mk is never put in this situation ever. if snake messes up nades at the snake, he eats tornado to 70% (ksizzle style). and most of mks mistakes arent even punishable with ftilt, anyway.

and fd is hard against mk. notice no one takes him there anymore?

 

[OverLade]

so wrong.

if snakes dtilted offstage, or grab released, or chased to the ledge, he should die. simple. mk is never put in this situation ever. if snake messes up nades at the snake, he eats tornado to 70% (ksizzle style). and most of mks mistakes arent even punishable with ftilt, anyway.

and fd is hard against mk. notice no one takes him there anymore?

Na that's not true. You can survive all of those things if you recover correctly, it just means that you will be taking a ton of damage from C4s. A lot of top snakes will Cypher backwards all the way to the edge of the blastzone and C4 low. If you do this, MK runs the risk of missing and dying if he shuttle loops you that close to the edge, and if you airdodge the shuttle loop you should still be high enough to C4 recover.

You can punish whiffed Dsmashes with Ftilt (it's not that easy but you always have enough time even if you dont PS).

And me and while me and M2K were playing at Orlando (we only played on FD) he told me he thinks snake slightly wins on FD. I don't doubt it to be honest, just knowing the matchup to the extend where you have an advantage is the hard part.

 

[etecoon]

I don't think snake wins on FD but I do think it's his best neutral(shut up lylat shouldn't be a neutral <_<). no one takes MK to FD because he strikes it first round and halberd/lylat are better counterpicks, it's not that it's a bad stage

 

[Attila_]

m2k also thinks diddy beats mk... he's clearly full of it.

and recovering with c4s against mk from low damage is almost the equivalent of a stock (and can be if mk gets his reads right). you take a hell of a lot of damage doing it. and what is mk killing you low with sl for? nair is more than sufficient.

 

[OverLade]

m2k also thinks diddy beats mk... he's clearly full of it.

and recovering with c4s against mk from low damage is almost the equivalent of a stock (and can be if mk gets his reads right). you take a hell of a lot of damage doing it. and what is mk killing you low with sl for? nair is more than sufficient.

No you should never die from Nair below 130% if you DI it correctly even if you're off the stage. Trust me when I say if you recover correctly MK may be able to keep you off with successful reads, but he won't be able to "gimp" you.

Snake takes a lot of damage from C4 recovery but it's more than worth it as long as you're able to reset the playing field.

 

[AfroQT]

No you should never die from Nair below 130% if you DI it correctly even if you're off the stage. Trust me when I say if you recover correctly MK may be able to keep you off with successful reads, but he won't be able to "gimp" you.

Snake takes a lot of damage from C4 recovery but it's more than worth it as long as you're able to reset the playing field.

Snake goes even with MK on all neutrals imo. Maybe in his favor on FD for sure.

Just because you hit 100% before MK does, does not mean you are losing the match

 

[etecoon]

I don't see how BF is even esp if you're also saying other neutrals are even too, that's not just claiming that it's an even matchup but that the stage pretty much doesn't matter which I really don't see, I think MK vs snake changes a lot depending on the stage

 

[OverLade]

Snake goes even with MK on all neutrals imo. Maybe in his favor on FD for sure.

Just because you hit 100% before MK does, does not mean you are losing the match

I don't think the matchup is even unless you don't approach and he doesn't attempt to time you out. MK always has a momentum advantage and the ability to run away when things get tight. If there was no timer mabye the matchup would be even.

 

[mikeray4]

For neutrals BF and lylat are good stages vs MK.

FD isnt my first choice because it cuts recovery options

for counter picks
I suggest halberd, but thats usually banned so take them to frigate. everything about frigate just works for snake 95% you will beat MK there. 5% of the time the field will **** you over.

 

[OverLade]

For neutrals BF and lylat are good stages vs MK.

FD isnt my first choice because it cuts recovery options

for counter picks
I suggest halberd, but thats usually banned so take them to frigate. everything about frigate just works for snake 95% you will beat MK there. 5% of the time the field will **** you over.

Na don't take MK to frigate. It hurts you in ways and there are way better stages you can take him to and MK has a HUGE gimping advantage at the beginning. Lylat and Final D are much better and I'd prefer them over Halberd even.

I also think MK beats snake on BF slightly.

 

[Blacknight99923]

other then the nades being easier to control on frigate what other advantedges does snake have their? I don't see a lot of snakes CP ing it against me so i don't know other then me being able to aim nades everywhere on the second half

 

[AfroQT]

I don't think the matchup is even unless you don't approach and he doesn't attempt to time you out. MK always has a momentum advantage and the ability to run away when things get tight. If there was no timer mabye the matchup would be even.

I guess if the MK is willing to play very campy its in his favor.

 

[napZzz]

Na don't take MK to frigate. It hurts you in ways and there are way better stages you can take him to and MK has a HUGE gimping advantage at the beginning. Lylat and Final D are much better and I'd prefer them over Halberd even.

I also think MK beats snake on BF slightly.

I always ban BF vs. mk. I'd rather play them on cruise or some other janky stage, on BF vs. a good mk it seems I'm never able to get myself to touch the ground thanks to the platforms which make juggling even easier for him

 

[etecoon]

IMO snake should ban brinstar, but I agree that MK wins on BF and I think its snake's worst neutral in this matchup

 

[Bizkit047]

I dunno, I don't really mind BF Vs MK. Platforms are god sends for hiding C4's from MKs that don't pay attention. Mines are fairly hidden here, Mks run into them all the time. Landing is sometimes tough, but pulling out a nade and just tanking a hit works. I don't think Brinstar is THAT bad either. But it's probably just as bannable as RC, though some Snakes (like Fatal) beat MKs on RC. Trick: Put mine on the ground. Put C4 on platform above. When the MK runs into the mine, detonate C4, everything will hit. It's like a 40% combo.

 

[OverLade]

I dunno, I don't really mind BF Vs MK. Platforms are god sends for hiding C4's from MKs that don't pay attention. Mines are fairly hidden here, Mks run into them all the time. Landing is sometimes tough, but pulling out a nade and just tanking a hit works. I don't think Brinstar is THAT bad either. But it's probably just as bannable as RC, though some Snakes (like Fatal) beat MKs on RC. Trick: Put mine on the ground. Put C4 on platform above. When the MK runs into the mine, detonate C4, everything will hit. It's like a 40% combo.

Yeah but the Calzorz Combo is only likely to happen mabye once in a set. Trust me when I say you can run away like a ***** on this stage. My 4th game vs Ultimaterazer in winners wasn't saved but that's basically what I did. I got ahead a whole stock then literally just forced his approach. In losers I had an opportunity to do the same thing but punked out because I'm garbage

 

[Attila_]

mk on bf is fine; the platforms really help keep him out. he can abuse them pretty hard too, though.

 

[mikeray4]

other then the nades being easier to control on frigate what other advantedges does snake have their? I don't see a lot of snakes CP ing it against me so i don't know other then me being able to aim nades everywhere on the second half

Why is frigate so good? MK's b up does not sweet spot the ledge (when recovering) on that stage ever. the ledges are weird and when there is only 1 ledge they have to recover without the safety of the ledge. plus the platforms are very good.

plus its really hard for them to time out snake here.

 

[OverLade]

Why is frigate so good? MK's b up does not sweet spot the ledge (when recovering) on that stage ever. the ledges are weird and when there is only 1 ledge they have to recover without the safety of the ledge. plus the platforms are very good.

plus its really hard for them to time out snake here.

Gimping Snake on the first section is extremely easy and while you're on the platform he can shark under you and then shieldpoke you with Tornado. Snake has an advantage when the stage flips and he can camp under the platform and bounce grenades but in the first section he's at a huge risk for taking damage.

And MK vs Snake isn't about timing snake out lol it's just a bonus.

 

[mikeray4]

MK sharking on frigate puts him in a horrible position. sharking in general isnt really good vs snake if you nade drop almost every second. taking damage should be considered a good thing sometimes vs MK because at higher% you are most likely not going to get combo'd to death quicker.

 

[etecoon]

that depends on MK's spacing and timing, when you first pull a nade it takes a moment before you can shield drop it, and then even after that MK can uair your front side. additionally, MK can use an aerial attack to pick up the grenade as well

 

[etecoon]

crashboards failure

 

[Calzorz]

this matchup is my actual favourite (weird for some1 to have mk as a favourite matchup yea i know xD)

theres a few tips i can give people to beat mks , mainly obvious ones but other than that it all comes down to experiance in the matchup

Never recover low unless ur obviously c4ing ur self up to recover

Always Try start on fd why? the stage is amazing to camp mk + tech chase him + Survive till high %'s nearly every stock unless you get gimped

to stop mk getting me off stage i nroamlly keep a nade with me at all times like u were trying to avoid falcos cg or something so mk cant get easy % from 0 with downthrow grabs and get u of stage but if he grabs u tech it obviously

When im in the air trying to land on the stage how do i recover? as you know most mks wait for the air dodge and drop down and punish it with either d air or n air , each time u get hit up and try to recover try diffrent things i think n air fastfall is one of the best hits them and makes u drop likea brick dont do it everytuime ul get predictable f air is good if ur off stage and u wana get a spike some every mk gets hit by it at some point as they think il just get that last hit in but yet again its a bit risky it could lead to taking there stock or just getting urself into a worse position

Were should i cp mk too? obviously go for halberd that low ceiling with up tilt is really too good , most mks will ban it tho so i recomend fd as i said but if u alst won on fd then i would mybe go for castle seige its 1 of my favourites but its jsut great for snake especially the 2nd bit after the stage change the statues echo the f tilts and once there destoryed its great to camp just dont get hit of the side early.

How do i out space mk? well if hes d air camping hold a nade and throw it up (hold it and press bck so u throw it up gently) then suprise him with a up tilt at low % or a up air at any % or just camp with nades your choice , getting snakes grabs in this matchup are so important when u get that down throw make that ***** of a mk pay for it try follow the tech chase and get it right as in get atleast a f tilt out of it but we all guess wrong sometimes , if hes f air spacing you to try lead it into more % i usally hold a nade sheild drop it to pwoersheild the f air or just sheild it and punish with f tilt or just beat him to the move so f tilt before he f airs.

How do i punish when he comes out nado? if the mk nados you and u manage to sheild it tilt ur sheild up to block it from hitting u out sheild and u can either punish with up tilt at high % f tilt at any % or d air for a kill or %

if anyone needs any more help Calzorz@hotmail.co.uk

im just trying to help out other snake mains

 

[$....$]

How do u deal with a toon link that constantly keep throwing bombs, boomerangs, and arrows i mean constantly throwing them cause i could not dodge all of them with snake :/

 

[napZzz]

How do u deal with a toon link that constantly keep throwing bombs, boomerangs, and arrows i mean constantly throwing them cause i could not dodge all of them with snake :/

its annoying as **** I agree with this guy lol. I play the same toon link every tournament and always win, but the ***** just sits around throwing **** and spacing zair.

I guess you just have to do your best to SLOWLY move your way in avoiding projectiles to your best ability. Rushing will get you knocked back and ***** so....just be patient I guess and only attack when you know you will hit

 

[Berserker.]

The Wario discussion was ignored :/

So what's the ratio?

 

[Underload]

There aren't enough posts in the Wario thread. I'm leaving it open until I get some more deciding information. If I wrapped it up now, it would definitely be premature.

As an announcement: after MK and Wario are officially done, we'll be start moving from B tier and down. Since these matchups aren't as important as the S and A tier MUs, they'll be a bit more compact and finesse than what you've seen so far.

 

[KayLo!]

The Zeldas are discussing the Snake MU. (....... x.x!)

Come contribute if you can!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=274513

 

[Turazrok]

How do u deal with a toon link that constantly keep throwing bombs, boomerangs, and arrows i mean constantly throwing them cause i could not dodge all of them with snake :/

Lol I just played Hyro. I try to PS his projectiles and return fire :3

Put some stuff on the stage so he can't land close.

 

[Sake-Hato]

a peach that spams dair and up fair how do i get over it? she gives sooo mutch pressure and its a shield eater and dont say cooked nades plz the only solution imo was uptilt but that means uptitlt wont be a kill move anymore

 

[etecoon]

in some MU's you have to accept that utilt isn't going to kill early, peach is still hella light and takes FOREVER to kill you

that being said I'm not sure that utilt is the best answer either, I barely ever play peaches

 

[Underload]

Actually, utilt does a really good job of wrecking Peaches at non-kill percents, especially if they abuse floated aerials. You're better off catching them with an uair or something, really.

 

[.decoy]

also remember that peach cant airdodge out of float. any time she is floating you can jump and bair/nair as well.

 

[mikeray4]

dont roll vs peach

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

doesn't up tilt beat out all of peach's approaches. If she is floating trying to float-bait you just wait till she gets close and uptilt her. My friend plays peach and I just try and take the middle of the stage and when he approaches I just cook a grenade and toss or soft toss depending on what he does. Honestly peach's best option is to stay on the ground and throw turnips and hope for a beam sword. And why no rolling vs peach dsmash sucks

 

[ScAtt77]

I've found that being a little more aggressive with n-airs with or without a nade in hand cover peaches air game quite nicely. Peach's f-air can beat it out but she has to space almost perfectly.

 

[MiniTroika]

If she floats high, coruch. When you crouch and shield, you automatically powershield her attacks giving you the best scenario upon landing (after her jabs). Her jab situation can be easily handled if you crouch next to a grenade (but then you have to expect a grab).

As others said, use Nair aggressively but sparingly. Up tilt is effective. F-tilt or grab requires some tight spacing if the Peach is any good at spacing her F-air or float. Don't jump over her as her up-air will juggle at early percents and outrange your aerials.

Remember that you don't always have to attack Peach. You can run anyway from the float. If you're forced to the ledge (not grabbing the ledge but just on top of it) , simply jump towards the stage and if she chases, B-reverse or be creative. I hate this matchup alongside Toon Link and other other annoying Mid Tiers.

 

[mikeray4]

I'm glad the thread name changed

 

[Limeee]

just uptilt peach, and kill with ftilt or probably bair

how are we supposed to read the main post? whats the difference between match up thread and versus snake?

and can you please organize all the match up numbers at the top of OP?

thanks