100% Hatred

[AlcyoNite]

I think we're talking about two different CGs.

marth * spacey...what else is there to discuss other than RAAPEE

 

[Moophobia]

You need to discuss them percents.

 

[Foxy]

yeah if i go i'll bring gofg

 

[AlcyoNite]

ok sure

These are the %s you don't have to move to do CGs with Marth vs Fox
0-16 Forward DI (sometimes 16 will miss though, but I think usually you will get them)
0-20 no DI (sometimes you will get them at 20 or 21 or so but the soonest you can miss is 20)
0-28 back DI

for up tilt vs Fox without needing to move
0-35 Forward DI (sometimes you will miss at 35 though, I've even had phantom hit bull**** before, but after 35 you need to walk forward no matter what. I think walk forward up tilt works to like 50 something?)
no DI the lowest you can up throw up tilt to knock them UP is like 23 I think that's unrelated though kinda, although honestly I usually do it at about 27/28+ (by the way vs Fox I usually do reverse up tilt because it seems better and it's harder to DI out of assuming they don't DI because you can still dash grab them even if they DI it, while if you did normal up tilt after not DIing up throw all the Fox has to do is DI behind Marth and he can land and tech before Marth can grab him)
0-50 back DI


for Falco
0-15??? (I know it's around like 13-16 or something idk, it's actually the same or less than Fox) Forward DI
0-25 no DI
0-31 back DI

for up tilt vs Falco
0-42 Forward DI
not sure for the no DI thing (unrelated thing see the Fox note above) I think it's like 30 something + but again this isn't exactly related to the "don't need to move" thing but more like a "don't need to move until it knocks them over on the ground instead of just completely missing" type of thing
0-54 back DI

up throw tipper F smash works on Fox at like low mid 40s + IIRC, and lasts up to as long as like 80% or so maybe even 90 if you don't DI. The easiest average % you are looking for vs Fox is 60%, although it works before and after that by about 15/20% obviously. Up throw take a baby step forward and then if they don't DI you reverse tipper F smash, then C stick if they decide to DI the up throw. The more you do this the better you will get at the timing and understanding, I just gave you a basic guideline. Falco is similar but add the %s a little higher by like 5 or 10% prolly closer to 5 (that's just a random guess) and there you have it.

Also you see my vid vs Shiz where I tried to do up throw Fair to Bair to F throw to Dair (that works I tested it on computers but I know a human would DI in the F throw lol, or I could just F smash tipper) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-diM94E8A&feature=channel_page at 1:02 it begins. Well, I made that up recently but my mistake was wavedashing before the grab - I should have just done a dash grab then F throw dair (or F throw F smash or F Throw down tilt to edge hog then bair).

ANOTHER Mistake at that vid at that same time is after he did the tech roll, I could have gotten him with a dash JC grab behind me before he would be able to shine or dodge, but I suck and got stuck in my turning around animation

you can't up throw Falco at 0% if he DIs behind you. He will always land. On the flip side if he DIs forward you can get him at 0% with a standing regrab, but it's the opposite for Marth's forward throw. F Throw regrab works if he DIs in but with away DI Falco can escape. Lol it's kind of a guessing game. I usually down throw at 0, or whatever direction the edge is, then down tilt it.

with no DI they can't escape till like 80%+ lol. Probably more. Once they get to like 70% + just do SH uair a few times. At like 90 do up throw (let them DI) then go for Fair + Dair (if they are smart they will not DI the Fair or DI away)

also near the edge down throw to dash-off-stage Dair actually combos at mid/high % if they DI in xD

idk much about falcon ask cactuar. The higher tier the character the more I know about them pretty much >_>

No discussion required, son

 

[Moophobia]

I found this out within like 10 minutes of practicing it, and every character has the exact same thing. So shut the **** up and stop acting like your some marth prodigy because you're most likely not going to get anywhere with the game. I'd like to see you prove me wrong.

edit: spelling errors

 

[AlcyoNite]

I found this out within like 10 minutes of practicing it, and every character has the exact same thing. So shut the **** up and stop acting like your some marth prophecy because you're most likely not going to get anywhere with the game. I'd like to see you prove me wrong.

you asked for percents; i gave them to you. LOL every character has the exact same thing??????????????????????????????????????????????

Ive gone plenty far with this game (ie improvement).

I am not some marth prophecy; mew2king is

i fail to see your point

 

[Moophobia]

My point is what you said was ****in ********, every character needs to know percents for SOMETHING.

 

[AlcyoNite]

My point is what you said was ****in ********, every character needs to know percents for SOMETHING.

make your points better =/

o yeah, fox needs to know stuff too of course to combo.

he's just easy

EASY AS PIE ON A SWEET SUNDAY MORNING!

EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY EASY

 

[Shaeman111]

Fox is not easy because he didn't win any recent tournaments.

 

[Moophobia]

I don't even play that guy anymore. I down graded from easy to easier. Get @ muh peach.

 

[AlcyoNite]

Fox is not easy because he didn't win any recent tournaments.

ehh i was talking about matchups. i never said he was better... (though he could be, but i cant make that claim)

same way people say sheik is easy, though i dont agree. doesnt mean shes best.

ie i think falcon is hardest in the game to play, BUT hes terrible

find fault with THAT son

rock solid arguments

ROCK SOLID

SOLID AS A ROCK

AS. A. ROCK.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah...i need to know mine better. mostly for CG stuff, but for the few "combo"s ganon has, i need to learn %s. especially for that peach matchup...

 

[Moophobia]

Get @ my floating chris

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah. like in hunters. LOL

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

oh my god theo shut the **** up and suck a god **** flute.

Fox is not easy, if he was I'd play him. jesus christ oh my god ***** more you homosexual flute blower.

 

[stingers]

OMG foxy!!! ilu

 

[lord karn]

Fox is really hard to play. . .

falco is so much easier. :D
Ice Climbers
Marth
Fox
Falcon
Peach
Sheik
Falco

That's the order I see it in difficulty to play out of the good characters at top level play. Falco and sheik are really close, though. Falco requires more tech skill, sheik requires more reaction speed. Both are pretty easy to play, overall, though.

 

[stingers]

fox harder then falcon?
o.o

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yup, that is a list, alright.

Very good Falco explanation too.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

I just wanna say Moo's avatar is god tier.

 

[Moophobia]

Man I'm honored Zero, I wanna meet you I hear you're such a coool guy.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ganon's not a good character karn? i'm disappointed in you.

he'd be close to the bottom of that list anyway. but then again, i'm not actually good with him, so i don't really know.

pp whats ur list? *summons*

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

****, I'm technical. Ask Josh about my desynch combos.

My character is SO hard

 

[Bl@ckChris]

**** i'm not technical. so i play ganon.

played sheik against Dshep today. it did better than my ganon against spacies. i can gimp with a character i don't play better than i can edgeguard with my main. it's a little depressing.

 

[Moophobia]

Dude PLUR your desynch combos ****in put on the ****. It still hurts to walk =(

 

[stingers]

ganon can be kinda technical

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

You shoulda seen the one I did to Josh that didn't involve a single grab like last week. **** was so crunchy.

Pivot Jab -> Nana dash Attack -> Popo WD Utilt -> Nana Blizzard -> Popo Utilt -> Nana Fair -> Popo Fsmash

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ik ganon can be. and ik i wish i was. but he doesn't have to be. there are just things that one needs to do right, and i can't do them right.

guess thats what makes me...not pp.

 

[Dr Peepee]

ganon's not a good character karn? i'm disappointed in you.

he'd be close to the bottom of that list anyway. but then again, i'm not actually good with him, so i don't really know.

pp whats ur list? *summons*

At high level?

easiest to hardest:

Sheik
Fox(with consistent tech)
Falco(with overconfidence)
Peach
ICs
Puff(in even metagame, not current one)
Marth
Falcon


A few things:

-no clue where Ganon goes

-Fox in reality is probably between Puff and Marth

-Falco that gets shaken AT ALL is about the same as moved Fox

-Puff in the current metagame is probably between Falco and Peach

-east NC sucks



Edit: I play far from perfectly. I just have experience+strategy.

 

[stingers]

we can't all be pp...it takes a certain kind of dedication

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

and *****-*****-ness

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i would like to think i'm kind of dedicated. more dedicated than i am to staying fit and trying to play soccer. which is pretty bad since i'm one of 5 people who made it to walk on for team workouts, and the coach just left, so a multitude of players also went. basically its a prime opportunity to play the sport i love at the college division 1 level and....i'd kind of rather play smash.

Taco Bell and Ganondorf all day. I'm dedicated, but i can't think fast enough. I'm smart...but slow. what a drag...i'll get faster someday...maybe...

 

[stingers]

if you can't react fast enough then plan around it

 

[Dr Peepee]

we can't all be pp...it takes a certain kind of dedication

You're twisting that.


Anyone can be good. You have to know what to look for in pro videos, what to look for in your own videos, how to fix your mistakes, how to come up with your own strategies/etc for matchups, and yes, stay dedicated.

Staying dedicated is only good if you know how to apply that dedication. Chris is doing a good thing by talking to the Ganon boards a lot, but if he isn't watching his own videos or those of pros and "critiquing" them(I'm not saying he isn't), then he won't improve much beyond theorycrafting.

When you play someone in friendlies, especially if it's someone you play often, then you want to relax and realize that this is a time to test out things you have been thinking about or really try to learn the way your opponent plays his character so you can gain insight into the way another character works. That experience can then be applied to your other friendlies, which result in much-needed knowledge that is your own. Using your own knowledge, you get to decide how a character works and figure out how to beat them. Making a strategy your own is the best because you can mold it to whatever situation that arises much easier than losing to it consistently and having to think about it later.


I hope that at least one person gets something out of this.....

 

[AlcyoNite]

At high level?

easiest to hardest:

Sheik
Fox(with consistent tech)
Falco(with overconfidence)
Peach
ICs
Puff(in even metagame, not current one)
Marth
Falcon


A few things:

-no clue where Ganon goes

-Fox in reality is probably between Puff and Marth

-Falco that gets shaken AT ALL is about the same as moved Fox

-Puff in the current metagame is probably between Falco and Peach

-east NC sucks



Edit: I play far from perfectly. I just have experience+strategy.

All of you

GET MOTHER ****ING *****. This is the final word i will say on this topic because pp, ranked ninth at pound, has made a list that i agree with. Did he say it was definite? No, he left room for dispute.

AS. A. ROCK.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hahaha <3 Theo. You're silly. =p

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

theo pp's **** is not a flute so get off of it.

 

[AlcyoNite]

theo pp's **** is not a flute so get off of it.

no one has yet given PP his deserved blowjobs as promised by sleepyk

edit: you mad

 

[Dr Peepee]

SleepyK said I had to beat M2K for them.

What a meanie. I haven't had the chance to do that since September lol.


Also, I demand my blowies.

 

[Foxy]

k unless there's a storm

i am coming

and staying
woohoo