05/24/09 - SC Bi-weeklies - BOHICA!

[Juno McGrath]

So...who wants to team with me at this here shin-dig in Brawl? I promise I'm not that bad in teams.

itd be nice to win money for once. )

 

[JMan8891]

Looks really hard to pull off and it looks like it could be DI'd out of, but if it really works, YAY!
EDIT: I don't know what all that other stuff means with your store and stuff. But it sounds bad. Good luck with it =\

Can't be DIed. The FS can't be DIed and even if it could, you land flat, so you the shiek could just walk over for the next Ftilt.

I tried it a few times... it does work, however, my timing sux so i couldn't consistently do it, xD

And win teams??? you would have to best LOW TIER HEROES/3rd Party Heroes SNAP!!!

And LTH BANE!!!!

LTH ain't nuddin to F&ck wit

 

[zCasanova]

LTH is LIES

So is that MK infinite—a good MK will just out space/camp the f-tilt, then plank or air camp the rest of the match once a stock/percentage advantage is achieved.

Edit: Is there even frame data on Shiek to show that f-tilt has the hit-stun needed to make that inescapable?

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Hahahahaha @ relying on auto shops to do **** on time.

as if I have another option... "WHY DON'T YOU COME DOWN HERE FALCO?"

 

[zCasanova]

What's wrong with you car?

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

brake pads.
also on another much less serious note, the windshield wiper fluid refuses to spray now for some reason. they also fixed some recall thing about engine bolt something another, some jibber jabber my stupid self doesn't quite comprehend.

should be picking it up at like noon today. be expecting me at this thing, even if I don't enter anything

 

[JMan8891]

It was literally discovered yesterday. The only things that can affect it are
1) too little damage
2)too much damge
3)fastfalling speed
4)too little ground traction (It is confirmed to not be possible on Luigi, with diff characters being easier)

Also, its kinna been confirmed. Ankokou or however its spelled has tried, multiple debate, ect. And Sorry dev, its not too hard to get MK to 37+ percent. And there are usually some rules against planking. Japanese rule?? And a better counter point has been made. Attack after Ftilt b4 the footstool. But nope... hitstun

Point: may be a legit MK counter, xD

 

[kackamee]

It was literally discovered yesterday. The only things that can affect it are
1) too little damage
2)too much damge
3)fastfalling speed
4)too little ground traction (It is confirmed to not be possible on Luigi, with diff characters being easier)

Also, its kinna been confirmed. Ankokou or however its spelled has tried, multiple debate, ect. And Sorry dev, its not too hard to get MK to 37+ percent. And there are usually some rules against planking. Japanese rule?? And a better counter point has been made. Attack after Ftilt b4 the footstool. But nope... hitstun

Point: may be a legit MK counter, xD

I tested it out too and it works pretty well :D. But I still doubt she'll be a true MK counter. Yoshi has a CG to spike on MK that is stronger than Falco's that will kill MK @ around %43+ but yet it's still really hard for Yoshi. But Shiek's Ftilt has longer range(atleast vertically) and is a bit faster than Yoshi's grab so it might be better.
EDIT: but Shiek can be CP'd to a place with platforms that will mess up the combo.

 

[Juno McGrath]

lol. if i had yay on me team it would be all uptilts ftilts and bull****.

and i said win money. i at least win my money back if we get third.

 

[seejae]

I'll be attending.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

It was literally discovered yesterday. The only things that can affect it are
1) too little damage
2)too much damge
3)fastfalling speed
4)too little ground traction (It is confirmed to not be possible on Luigi, with diff characters being easier)

Also, its kinna been confirmed. Ankokou or however its spelled has tried, multiple debate, ect. And Sorry dev, its not too hard to get MK to 37+ percent. And there are usually some rules against planking. Japanese rule?? And a better counter point has been made. Attack after Ftilt b4 the footstool. But nope... hitstun

Point: may be a legit MK counter, xD

MK counter? You must be smoking something. Have you ever played MK against Sheik? I'll tell you now it's nearly impossible for Sheik to do anything against him, let alone get close enough for a ftilt. Just space her out and fairs and stay above her with dairs and guess what? Sheik can't do anything! The MKs this will be happening on consistently are the scrubby MKs, since Sheik can't get close enough to really do much to one that spaces. Not to mention air planking or just staying off the stage without grabbing the ledge in general should be enough to stall out the timer if you wanted.

Also, just banning FD and picking platform stages and running away would also snuff out this infinite.

Sheik doesn't have the assets outside of this infinite to be a MK counter. I mean, Ice Climbers can kill from one grab, but they don't counter the entire cast. And they're a lot better than Sheik. lol

 

[zCasanova]

Bleh, just SDI the f-tilt and u-air, that infinite won't hold up in higher levels of play.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Bleh, just SDI the f-tilt and u-air, that infinite won't hold up in higher levels of play.

Even if you can't SDI out of it, it still won't hold. The fact that MK completely destroys Sheik outside of the infinite is good enough for that.

 

[Criosphinx]

MK counter? You must be smoking something. Have you ever played MK against Sheik? I'll tell you now it's nearly impossible for Sheik to do anything against him, let alone get close enough for a ftilt. Just space her out and fairs and stay above her with dairs and guess what? Sheik can't do anything! The MKs this will be happening on consistently are the scrubby MKs, since Sheik can't get close enough to really do much to one that spaces. Not to mention air planking or just staying off the stage without grabbing the ledge in general should be enough to stall out the timer if you wanted.

Also, just banning FD and picking platform stages and running away would also snuff out this infinite.

Sheik doesn't have the assets outside of this infinite to be a MK counter. I mean, Ice Climbers can kill from one grab, but they don't counter the entire cast. And they're a lot better than Sheik. lol

$5 MM my sheik your MK 2/3 at this?

 

[zCasanova]

Wouldn't it be more like, $5 MM my Sheik vs. your anything, since the lock works on over 75% the cast?

This isn't going to make Shiek high tier, and it definitely isn't going to make her the MK-bane everyone's been looking for.

Outside of the infinite, she still gets *****. I hesitate even saying infinite, because this will be disproved with SDI.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

$5 MM my sheik your MK 2/3 at this?

I don't play Meta Knight anymore and I don't ever do money matches. You're more than welcome to play my 6 month, out of practice Meta Knight in friendlies, though.

 

[JMan8891]

The whole problem is on paper SOOO much is "can't do, won't work" ect.

In reality, people are not frame perfect and essentially, its a judgment call moment to moment. Read the situation wrong once/be read right and it can easily happen. Snake's spike should NEVER kill when he is recovering at a moderate height, you have to be ******** to eat that to the face while gimping. Yet, M2k of all people was legit killed by it at Apex. So, yea... theorycraft till day's end.

Or, the D3 chaingrab (albeit a LOT easier to pull, xD) there is a 3 frame window where its unescapable. Muscle memory and practice, and how consistently do you CG ppl Devin??

And @Crio: I want to try vs your sheik for the lulz, see if you can perform this, xD

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Reading people =/= muscle memory. To perfectly predict what someone will do every time out of anything is impossible, and since this basically comes down to prediction if they SDI it, it's impossible to always follow up. No one's reaction time is good enough to choose their option based on what they do.

 

[JMan8891]

Which is why you need a minimum of 37% slightly more dmg pops you a bit further. At 37%, SDI you don't really get too far away. And its about 10 frames of hitstun... you can afford to run for about 2 frames and still fs.

And more too the point, not everyone is good or quick enough to SDI a frame 5 ftilt, and by muscle memory, one has a gaurenteed lock to kill on Mk

Jus' Sayin' (assuming in the coming week it isn't debunked)

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

You're gassing it up to much, I'm telling you. Smash DI away and the FS jump probably impossible. Until I've had this done on me consistently and I'm unable to Smash DI out of it, I'm a skeptic. It's getting far more credit than it's worth, it hasn't been used against any good MKs.

 

[JMan8891]

You're gassing it up to much, I'm telling you. Smash DI away and the FS jump probably impossible. Until I've had this done on me consistently and I'm unable to Smash DI out of it, I'm a skeptic. It's getting far more credit than it's worth, it hasn't been used against any good MKs.

Being it was officially discovered and posted on last night around... 7:00, it really is in its infancy.

My point is don't be so quick to say its not viable as a tactic, or can 100% be avoided. Sheik can hurt you if you try to forever stay away. Needle, spaced Bair, etc. And a spaced Bair can lead into a Ftilt, ensuring its success regardless.. Unlike so many "locks", its one of the few that seems to be to some extent unavoidable. Hell, i don't play sheik but still think its pretty pimp.

As it stands, the SDI can change the timing, making it harder. A few ppl from the wario boards have said that the FS infinites are actually all avoidable in one way or another, or that the escape is possible b4 the damage is too much to worry about.

Still... IF true... somethin to look out for

 

[Criosphinx]

Wouldn't it be more like, $5 MM my Sheik vs. your anything, since the lock works on over 75% the cast?

This isn't going to make Shiek high tier, and it definitely isn't going to make her the MK-bane everyone's been looking for.

Outside of the infinite, she still gets *****. I hesitate even saying infinite, because this will be disproved with SDI.

It's not an infinite, due to the fact that once you get to a certain percent (80-100%), the Ftilt sends them beyond your jump range to Footstool them. You're right, it's not the MK bane everyone is making it out to be, but it alters her matchups.

edit: I want to play Street Fighter 3rd Strike SOOOOOO Bad.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

edit: I want to play Street Fighter 3rd Strike SOOOOOO Bad.

god, me too
"gutter traaaash" ohhh dudley is so awesome

 

[kackamee]

Lol yet another deadly combo IC's are immune to. Sooner or later everyone will have some sort of infinate on everyone except the IC's because there are 2 of them :D Then I'll be top tier lol.

 

[zCasanova]

I don't think you guys understand what SDI is.

If you do it correctly, it LITERALLY teleports you.

That in itself becomes a problem for Shiek, as you can SDI twice during one f-tilt, meaning up and away almost guarantees MK an u-air.

Not to mention SDI'ing toward Shiek would put you behind her, meaning it isn't as simple as f-tilt -> fs, because you have to read your opponent's SDI, which as Yay said, requires an unfathomable reaction time.

At best, this will be a tech chase thing.

 

[JMan8891]

And yet again, you need to SDI the Frame 5 Ftilt. Your arguing for player reaction completely biased.

However, as its nearing completion/been done 2+ times... it would take an idiot to not SDI properly to at least make it harder to hit and keep going...

Initiating it as well as chaining it is a pseudo-given. 100% unbreakable??? remains to be seen

 

[zCasanova]

Nah, I they've already debunked it.

I think swordgard, the DI king, was the first to it.

In theory, something as highly telegraphed as Shiek's f-tilt should be easy to SDI.

Not to mention, 5 frames isn't as super fast as everyone's making it out to be. Grabs come out on frame 6, most people are able to avoid those and punish accordingly, same with the f-tilt. Instead of dash -> grab, it's walk -> f-tilt.

Then comes the argument of mix-ups, but if you can bait a grab, can't you bait a f-tilt?

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

And yet again, you need to SDI the Frame 5 Ftilt. Your arguing for player reaction completely biased.

However, as its nearing completion/been done 2+ times... it would take an idiot to not SDI properly to at least make it harder to hit and keep going...

Initiating it as well as chaining it is a pseudo-given. 100% unbreakable??? remains to be seen

I don't think you get it. You KNOW the ftilt is coming and you can prepare to SDI it, and 5 frames is a lot larger window than people realize. SDIing the ftilt, however, means the Sheik has to react to what you do accordingly, and that's impossible to do. It's a completely different scenario.

 

[JMan8891]

Yes, i do agree with that. Initiating it and FS once is likley...


Stringing them, however, xD straight to 100, not likley

I concede

 

[Z-8188]

Hey. This is Zelda/Chris from the last tourney you hosted. Hope it's not too late to throw my name into the Brawl segment. I'd be bringing a friend for doubles, too.

 

[JMan8891]

Nvr too late.

And ARS bailed, so JMan officially needs a partner. Im great in teams, promise

Takers??

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Nvr too late.

And ARS bailed, so JMan officially needs a partner. Im great in teams, promise

Takers??

Sonic/Snake? I'm not that bad at the game.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

me and adam are coming

... bringing THUNDER BUCKET

 

[zCasanova]

Lawl, bring my cord, plz.

Animazement was... animazing.

My g/f and I blew like, $300 at the place, it was crazy.

Already ordering our costumes for the next one

 

[JMan8891]

Yay, 3rd Party Heroes it is, xD

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Yay, 3rd Party Heroes it is, xD

**** Nintendo characters!

 

[Thunder865]

BAH fjahfkshfkjas I wish i could come to this ;_____;

Why the hell did Target have to schedule me only ONE DAY this week, and for that one day to be SUNDAY?!
Ugh...
Have fun, you guys ;-;

 

[JMan8891]

Call in?? xD
1 day a week/tourney... CALL!!!

 

[Juno McGrath]

ill be seeing you fellas around 2:00 o clock.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

yeah of course I got yer cord Dev pretty much the reason I'm coming lol

be there at like 1-ish