(」・ω・)」 MARS la Marf in Smash 4 (／・ω・)／

[Lord Chair]

BY THE WAY

I will argue Marth +1 vs Pika after Ramin vs Esam. After playing Ramin, Leon, and MN firsthand, I'll consent that they can take theory further than I thought they could. My problem w/ it was always that Marth won in theory but I didn't think it could be carried over consistently for application.

Hey hey what about Wario-Marth now. Huuuuuuuuuuu.

 

[NH Cody]

Wario is free

 

[C.J.]

Did that even happen @ Apex?

During the LSF of Brawl singles Kain, Ally, CJ and I sat around together, watched the matches and talked trash. I randomly decided to throw out some jabs at CJ and went aggro on him to provide a good laugh. Literally out of nowhere Tyrant appeared and went "yo wtf, you hatin on my boy CJ? Get outa here *****h!". From that moment on I realized that you can't hate on CJ and get away with it.

This was SO FUNNY.

I love all my smash friends, SO MUCH.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I wanna see that Marth main pic...

 

[Raziek]

Killock and I are farthest to the right, I'm kneeling by Pierce.

 

[Pr0phetic]

College makes me miss out on so much good **** lol... But then I remember I'm at college and it's alright!

 

[Reizilla]

Worst instagram filter ever.

/sad that I'm not in the pic

 

[Raziek]

I didn't apply it, just copy/pasted from Faceboooook.

Blame Tiger. I think.

 

[Shaya]

@From a PM

"when a marth main is aware that everyone else wants to power shield his **** (because otherwise marth is too safe to consistently get into) then you get that +1 for marth in nearly every situation against every character the entire match the entire time."

Can you elaborate on that a lil more

People "good" against Marth abuse Marth's weaknesses in bad situations. Situations which arguably shouldn't be happening because Marth is a safe character. However, for a long time now, top level play has had power shielding as a significant staple and it's been an area that Marth mains have never discussed nor considered openly important. When it comes down to it, Marth is a character that is significantly easier to combat if you power shield his stuff and most Marth players aren't considerate of this 'weakness' (a "weakness" where players want to read your aerials to time power shields) and don't expound upon it nor use it against others either. If you consider any MU Marth has and put into both character's camps similar amount of power shields then while Marth can usually space well enough to not be punished, the opposite isn't true for pretty much every opponent; dancing blade, aerials, ftilt, dtilt etc etc extend and reach to places other characters do not and hence punish things consistently that other characters have no chance of (for the most part, most top tier characters rely on dash attack [falco/mk/snake] for their all encompassing power shield punish).

This is when "theory" becomes viewable as what should be put in practice in what is realistically possible. At the tippity top, Marth is still extremely safe, while very few characters are actually safe against Marth in the same situations players abuse against us. We just haven't been focusing on those areas for too long believing we didn't "need it". We didn't "need" to vary our forward air so it doesn't get PS'd. We didn't "need" to power shield anything because dancing blade oos is that good a majority of the time.

We've all been wrong. And really really really lazy.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Thanks for posting that up! Didn't want to hold out lol

 

[Mr-R]

My d tilt usage and d smash usage have improved severely

 

[Raziek]

Thank god.

I've been on D-tilt for a looooong time now. Annoyed the crap out of Quest and Fuwa with it. It's so good!

Shout outs to Quest being a lot better than I expected, too.

 

[clowsui]

Shoutouts to me for being the worst person ever and not going to Apex.

 

[Kel]

If you GR DAIR MK will his uair trade with you if you are doing it correctly?

Also, is Fthrow, Fthrow, usmash a true combo at 0% against MK?

 

[clowsui]

First one no. Frame perfect dairs (like the ones I was hitting on you when we were buzzed friendlying at Tako's) do not trade.

Second one yes

 

[Kel]

Hmmmm I must be doing the GR dair wrong then. I can do it against CPUs no problem, but when I have a person uair me out of it, it's not as easy. I either trade or don't hit it at all. Any advice for getting this down pat? I've decided to learn the mk mu

 

[clowsui]

It's mostly getting a feel for it. Clawing helps immensely. I got it right away when I was even seconding marth so I'm not of much help here LOL. The issue is usually boiled down to a) you dashed too little b) you jumped too late

 

[Pr0phetic]

So I think I'm going to my first tourney in years this weekend... I'm rusty af lol, my hands haven't moved like this in probably two years... But I think I'll do good

 

[ScareMl]

Hmmmm I must be doing the GR dair wrong then. I can do it against CPUs no problem, but when I have a person uair me out of it, it's not as easy. I either trade or don't hit it at all. Any advice for getting this down pat? I've decided to learn the mk mu

When you Gr release him, he flies in this arch like pattern. For Gr->dair, I believe the dash must be buffered, and for me, I just watch the Mk. As soon as he starts coming down from the top of the arch of the grab release, I dash and dair.

 

[Pr0phetic]

The dash surely has to be buffered.

 

[Shaya]

considering there's only a 1 frame buffer window (as in, you can dash from frame 30 and the earliest you can input is 28) it's really all about timing. The dair being buffered out of your jump is pretty essential though.

My level 9 Marth CPU is such a massive **** rag smart *** piece of **** *******. He'll platform drop out of a power shield into single hit nair -> usmash. Every ****ing time. And then it taunts.
Even when it doesn't kill, it ****ing decides to taunt.

Who taught my CPU to be such a bad ***.

 

[Pr0phetic]

My level 9s dash dance and occasionally tech chase... I don't know.

 

[Reizilla]

Shaya, your CPU is my new best friend.

 

[1PokeMastr]

There's only a one frame buffer window for the grab release cool down ?

I must be some sort of god, being able to BDacus out of that with Falco.
Dash + 2 C Stick Inputs in a one frame window.

:3


Unless of course there's actually a 10 frame buffer window, which would be more logical.

 

[Shaya]

Aerial Grab release animations do not have buffer windows.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who states this :s

 

[1PokeMastr]

How the hell am I BDacus'ing from it then ?
I know I can't make 3 inputs in one frame.


I thought of.. If it's a forced air release, it's different from them forcing it on themselves through mashing. Then I remembered if Falco grabs Lucas if Lucas was still in the air, Lucas will always be air released.. and I can still BDacus from that.


I'm not god. Help T^T

 

[smashkng]

Isn't it like there's only a 5 frame buffer window when it comes to buffering dashes and if you smash the control too early (frames 6 to 10 before the cooldown of anything is over) you'll instead buffer a walk? I thought the releaser could buffer out of grab releases but not the RELEASED character.

 

[Sar]

considering there's only a 1 frame buffer window (as in, you can dash from frame 30 and the earliest you can input is 28) it's really all about timing. The dair being buffered out of your jump is pretty essential though.

My level 9 Marth CPU is such a massive **** rag smart *** piece of **** *******. He'll platform drop out of a power shield into single hit nair -> usmash. Every ****ing time. And then it taunts.
Even when it doesn't kill, it ****ing decides to taunt.

Who taught my CPU to be such a bad ***.

Do lvl 9 CPUs learn over time, including when you turn off your wii or after the match ends? I always thought it only learned during the course of a match, like if you had a 99 stock match it could learn a lot, but afterwards it would be back to normal?

Like my GW spams the hell out of bacon but there's no way I taught it that.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Isn't it like there's only a 5 frame buffer window when it comes to buffering dashes and if you smash the control too early (frames 6 to 10 before the cooldown of anything is over) you'll instead buffer a walk? I thought the releaser could buffer out of grab releases but not the RELEASED character.

Both can buffer :3

 

[Shaya]

CPus learn over the long term.

The fastest way to teach your Marth CPU to be lame is to do grounded "poke" (dtilt) until it starts countering you every time you dtilt near him. The AI for the CPU isn't about just copying what a human does over the long term, but is closer to "what works in this situation" (and what ever it defines as a 'situation' is pretty broad when it comes to grounded positions [thats why they play best on FD and suck on battlefield], but is pretty awful at understanding 'getting hit' [although my marth will fair you if you dash after throwing him these days] and recovering/ledges [although it knows how to instant snap the ledge to gimp in the off occasion]).
Eventually you'll have a Marth who from a neutral position will counter anything that has more than 6 frames of start up. Not 100% of the time, no, but it will, I assure you.
It will keep trying to beat you with different things until it reaches counter. Although I doubt I'll ever get consistency out of it, I've had some luck getting the CPU to dair me from ledge jumps as well.

So my CPU will counter if he's standing on the ground not running: dtilt, fsmash, ftilt, any hit of dancing blade beyond the first (if you whiff), shieldbreaker, etc etc

 

[Kel]

My CPUs are trained to airdodge when I get close and powershield my fairs. It's super helpful; especially against ICs and Wario. Playing against IC CPUs is actually helpful because you can learn how to actually hit Nana instead of looking like a ****head as she iceblocks you in the face during a hyped match.

BTW Shaya when are you coming back to America? You should hit up the Midwest this time. Chi and I will run a tournament or something when you come just for you. We'll call it "the Shaya Showdown," or maybe the "Shire Showdown" since I believe Australians would pronounce Shaya around the same way we pronounce Shire.

 

[Sar]

Ahh, thanks.

Is there any specific way to un-learn CPU habits? My friend plays snake and i'd really like to get some snake CPU practice, but it does side-B wayyy to much when I'm far away on the stage and its too easy to punish. Should i just keep hard punishing it with smash attacks until it learns not to do the move altogether?

 

[clowsui]

My CPUs are trained to airdodge when I get close and powershield my fairs. It's super helpful; especially against ICs and Wario. Playing against IC CPUs is actually helpful because you can learn how to actually hit Nana instead of looking like a ****head as she iceblocks you in the face during a hyped match.

BTW Shaya when are you coming back to America? You should hit up the Midwest this time. Chi and I will run a tournament or something when you come just for you. We'll call it "the Shaya Showdown," or maybe the "Shire Showdown" since I believe Australians would pronounce Shaya around the same way we pronounce Shire.

Pretty much this.

Midwest is bossssssss

 

[NH Cody]

Midwest has nothing on New Hampshire

 

[Shaya]

I think I'll be coming back to the States for Summer. I definitely need to add a visit to the MW.

Yes Shaya is pronounced how you would pronounce Shire.
I've been dealt that pun a few times already =)

 

[clowsui]

Vegetarian pad thai on me ^_^

 

[Zano]

**** that, come to texas for all u can eat pizza.

 

[Reizilla]

Texas da bess. Come to my recitalnext month.

 

[Shaya]

Texas da bess. Come to my recitalnext month.

That's a confirmed nonattendance from me, sorry

 

[Reizilla]

Nooooooooooo my life is over.