ZSGD - Now in 3D/HD

[DeLux]

I tried, I got jab/tilt stuffed into RCO like 6 times this tournament

I ended up just playing keep away and baiting them to overcommit and then hitting them like a train when they were on the tracks.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Some weird **** happened by accident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGmLHz_FDwc&feature=youtu.be
How does this exactly work?
It looks broken.

 

[DeLux]

Dakpo posted something similar on FB a little bit ago. I haven't been able to replicate it intentionally yet. I've done something similar, but still trying to sort out if it has something to do with Side Special or Air Dodge Cancelling Aerial or Aerial Auto Cancel windows or all three.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Some weird **** happened by accident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGmLHz_FDwc&feature=youtu.be
How does this exactly work?
It looks broken.

Woooow eine andere Deutsche Seele auf Smashboards.

Anyway, this looks like this here

http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-know-how-this-technique-was-done.384184/

But all we know is that it isn't character specific. Nobody knows how you perform it exactly.

 

[IsmaR]

There's a similar tech with regular Samus involving cancelling your lag upon returning to the ledge with an attack.

Could be basically the same thing, but with the DI/airdodge being cancelled instead of Down B (which looks to have not stuck due to regrabbing ledge mechanics).

 

[Vinylic.]

I assume you guys know this already. I've been pulling it off more than I can chew.

Is it supposed to be frame perfect? I dunno, but you're to get out of this. Forcing them to air dodge or make an aerial though, that is super sweet advantage for me if they do this.

Also, that discovered tech looks incredible.

 

[DeLux]

DI/spacing dependent and probably not frame perfect.

I suspect there are a few 1 frame links with this character, but bnb dthrow combo is not one of them

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I assume you guys know this already. I've been pulling it off more than I can chew.

Is it supposed to be frame perfect? I dunno, but you're to get out of this. Forcing them to air dodge or make an aerial though, that is super sweet advantage for me if they do this.

Also, that discovered tech looks incredible.

It's not hard to do and it's all about your correct height. I'm getting an early kill out of it pretty often now. You can even dThrow>uAir>uSpecial or dThrow>uAir>uAir>uSpecial at certain percents and they can't get out of it.

 

[David Viran]

Did you guys see nairos comeback against 6wx's sonic in collision. He was at 110% and 6wx was at 27% and he did the the down throw up air up b and clutched it.

 

[NickRiddle]

That MU is so easy though, how was he losing~

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Did you guys see nairos comeback against 6wx's sonic in collision. He was at 110% and 6wx was at 27% and he did the the down throw up air up b and clutched it.

I'm guessing there isn't a yt video yet?
Yeah that's one of ZSS' strengths. hear 3xuAir>uSpecial combo kills at 40% on FD after all.
dThrow>uAir>uSpecial starts around the same percentage

 

[DeLux]

SO I guess I'm playing in CT's wifi invitational in like 30 mins lol

 

[Vinylic.]

Yo dude, are you trying to go for hard reads? You missed most of them and ended up costing your last stock, dude. :/

 

[DeLux]

yolo?

Quick how do we get Pikmin off of us lolol

 

[David Viran]

Delux at least you 2-0d trela and took a game from Anti, representing.

 

[Vinylic.]

Trela must be upset though or didn't care. He didn't exactly achieve metaknight's potential compared to anti and ended up costing his chance. I think he's just trying to pick what character's best for him. His charizard was great, but he's starting to doubt his choice. He doesn't even want to pick lucario.

That was a sort of a free win for delux.

 

[DeLux]

Delux at least you 2-0d trela and took a game from Anti, representing.

I don't think Trela tried very hard lol
I'm not too concerned, I wifi is so limiting so I can't do any of the fancy stuff

But I strongly suspect Olimar is going to be rough lol

 

[David Viran]

I don't think Trela tried very hard lol
I'm not too concerned, I wifi is so limiting so I can't do any of the fancy stuff

But I strongly suspect Olimar is going to be rough lol

Why do you say that?

 

[DeLux]

We don't have a move to reliably remove Pikmin. We don't really have a move like Brawl Bair to abuse frame advantage on landing anymore either.

 

[Vinylic.]

Use of Down Special will not even be viable in a match with olimar. I don't think I want to use it at all until I know I can do that safely. Finding an open spot on olimar is difficult, and he has a fast cooldown. It is in his favor at most right now.

I'm gonna be cautious with meta knight too. ANTi was zoning at a great rate and was able to punish more than I could ever do.

 

[David Viran]

I don't really know the match up too well but like alot of match ups we should go more in depth eventually.

 

[LordFluffy]

http://battlefy.com/prism/nexus-sup...78e5a1/stage/54a9e0711e54676700193f28/results

Unfortunally got knocked out by a top 8 C.Falcon and a rosaluma main of whom i completely reverted from knowing what to do to WHY AM I NOT WINNING ANYMORE. I don't feel too bad about it though, i know for a fact i've beaten a good # of the players above me in the bracket, so i'm still confident next tournament i can break top 8, if not top 3

 

[DeLux]

Just for initial posts, thoughts on MUs -

-2 - Sheik,
-1 - Diddy Kong, Olimar, Pikachu
0 - Ness, Fox, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Rosaluma, Dr. Mario
+1 - Captain Falcon, Charizard, Bowser Jr., Greninja, Lucario, Little Mac, Link, Palutena, Peach, Sonic, Villager, Zelda
+2 - Ganondorf, Ike, King DDD, Meta Knight, PacMan

No Clue/Haven't Played - Bowser, Dark Pit, Donkey Kong, Duck Hunt, Falco, Jigglpuff, Lucina, Mr. GW, Pit, Miis, Robin, Samus, Shulk, Toon Link, Wario, Wii Fit, Yoshi

 

[IsmaR]

The consensus from most Samus mains is that fighting ZSS is like trying to fight with weighted training gear on. Es bad mashup.

Coincidentally I've started using both more frequently than one or the other.

 

[DeLux]

I gotcha, I hope to fill in more of my knowledge gaps at Apex. Once I actually play some in MM/tournament I would probably cosign that, but don't want to leave too much to theory favoring experience.

 

[Tiersie]

Why do you put jigglypuff at +2? Is there stuff to abuse hard in that matchup?

 

[DeLux]

Actually meant to put that one in the "I don't know" group lol

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Why do you put jigglypuff at +2? Is there stuff to abuse hard in that matchup?

I feel like jiggs is actually a pretty hard matchup since she can pressure us up close while having a fairly easy time avoiding stuff like dSmash and nSpecial but I lack practice regarding this matchup.

 

[Tiersie]

Yes, jiggly is a pretty bad matchup I feel, she can weave in and out and can dodge pretty much every option out of shield. She never has to be in the path of paralyzer and dsmash and gets out of uair string easy. The only thing I think zss really has on jiggs is well spaced bairs. I've played a lot of this matchup which I why I was confused as to why it was listed as +2 when I've been struggling so hard with it :^)

 

[Vinylic.]

You got D-tilt. I wouldn't spam them though. Most of the jiggs you'll play will be aggressive more than timely. It's more to force them to approach you rather than going towards them. They will most likely make aerials first, so strike with an early spaced shorthop aerials. More like uair, zair (yo seriously, use that), and etc.

Chances with stunning her are as slim as using your D-Smash in neutral. Try going for it more when she's taken knockback and is off stage, but I'd rather go for more aerials in a way that you can bait her. Don't shield her pound on ground and go for a pivot grab instead (mostly works for me).

That's as much as I know. While jiggs plays with spacing, reaction, and patience with her high air speed/mobility. You got sort of the same thing with ZSS mobility.

 

[DeLux]

I also find that using Dsmash isn't effective in some MUs like this because there appears to be significantly less stun on a crouching opponent and many of the tiny characters will default neutral in the crouched position since it makes a majority of moves miss.

 

[Shaya]

So I guess I'm officially in "it".

A combination of advancing myself in perfect pivoting, thinking about Marth, thinking about Falco, thinking about how the fusion of the two with better mobility specs is Zero Suit Samus and voila, feeling quite good at my improvement with her (I guess I kinda have 6 years of experience with her to help).

PP backwards Dsmash or Laser are extremely dirty. Also down tilt, abusing the slide forward (or for negating the slide forward as a quick reposition *broken*). PP Forward Up tilt or forward tilt would be amazing to get technically efficient at, but that isn't feeling too essential right now.
Power shield dash up-b is the bomb. People don't seem to get out of it when done from the ground, could be me being extremely lucky or it just being harder to DI/pop out of.
Jab on shield -> stall -> spot dodge -> jab; mwahhaahaha
Clutch back airs forever.
Down-B is better than Air dodging ^_^
Spacing neutral air well feels like an art form, hello shayair v2 (gonna spend some timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with this).

So so so many options out of every orifice.

Could see Oli being a bit dirty but I'm otherwise only worried about Pikachu with her thus far.
Has anyone done ending/IASA, roll, spot dodge, etc frame data yet?

 

[IsmaR]

We play video games here, ma'am.

Or in laymen's terms I don't think anyone's compiled anything.

Also I like dance trotting > Paralyzer or Plasma Whip a lot more than I should

 

[DeLux]

Plasma whip (both side special and gair versions) is the worst move in the game.

Except when tethering.

We could lose the gair. Keep the side special lol

 

[Shaya]

We play video games here, ma'am.

Or in laymen's terms I don't think anyone's compiled anything.

I knew I couldn't rely on you :<

I guess I'm going to go on a quest for enlightenment sometime.
Focus the inner Choco.

 

[David Viran]

Plasma whip (both side special and gair versions) is the worst move in the game.

Except when tethering.

We could lose the gair. Keep the side special lol

It's sad isn't it. Tbh if it didn't have the horrendous end lag then I think it would be useful.

 

[Remzi]

Plasma whip (both side special and gair versions) is the worst move in the game.

Except when tethering.

We could lose the gair. Keep the side special lol

I absolutely disagree that zair/gair is a bad move. Against shorter characters, it isn't extraordinarily useful besides stretching for followups, but against medium to large sized characters that arent named sheik, its one of my favorite tools in neutral.

 

[DeLux]

Spacing neutral air well feels like an art form, hello shayair v2 (gonna spend some timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with this).

Let me know what you come up with. Particularly interested in what the former Marth mains make of this tool. Actually been watching quite a bit of old Brawl Marth videos to try to fill in some of my knowledge gaps.

I absolutely disagree that zair/gair is a bad move. Against shorter characters, it isn't extraordinarily useful besides stretching for followups, but against medium to large sized characters that arent named sheik, its one of my favorite tools in neutral.

You could be right and I could be wrong. For my personal yomi loops/sequencing that I do, gair being viable indicates to me that my spacing with my opponent isn't putting enough pressure on. Like throwing it out comes at the expense of not being able to throwout Nair or Paralyzer so I am not a fan. I'd rather forgo the poke option in order to open up my opponent with strong followups as well.

I have a tournament today guys, notables attending include Shaky, Bonds, Ampharos, Fragger, Grunyan. I could win today or could come in 7th, who knows? stream should be at www.twitch.tv/legendoflux starting around 9pm eastern time.

 

[IsmaR]

G-air also refreshes stale moves, so that's always a plus.

 

[DeLux]

Hey guys,
Came in 2nd at my tournament today. I played a billion matches on stream so I guess you'll get to see how free I am.
I played -
Pools all 2-0
Grunayn (Diddy)*
Rev (Sheik)*
PT Bruiser (Yoshi)*
The Law (Pika)*

Winners Bracket
Whistleslippers (Bowser) 2-0
xtara (ZSS) 2-0
Amazing Ampharos (Rosaluma) 2-1*
Bonds (Sheik) 0-2 - WSF*

Losers Bracket
Grunyan 2-0*
MJG (Diddy) 2-1*
Bonds 3-0 (I went Diddy for one game on Lylat tho) LF
Shaky 1-3 (Ness)* GF


Asterisk are all the sets streamed, so should have replays soon.