ZSGD - Now in 3D/HD

[TsuKiyoMe]

I believe air dodging actually makes it longer. You used to be able to Air Dodge => Zair in the E3 demo and it worked. I think they've since tacked on extra lag with the air dodge.

Think of it as if ZAir and Air Dodge Zair are two different moves.

 

[DeLux]

Probably should be tested since I'd rather "know" than just "believe/think"

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

No I did test it, it does for sure have more lag than just normal ZAiring. I just can't give you exact frames. I'd need to ask NinjaLink or D1 to figure that out for me.

I should have just went over my post. I typed it, tested it, and never actually went back and fixed my language. Sorry for that.

 

[DeLux]

Exact numbers would be nice

 

[Falco-Z]

I'm certainly not an authority on ZSS, but things I've noticed:

1. Greninja seems to have a really good counter-measure to 90% of ZSS's moveset between his various specials and smashes. Most of the good Greninjas that I've played against have been able to simply abuse attack priority and speed until I made a mistake.

2. As noted by people before, characters with really good projectile attacks are really difficult to approach without taking big risks or winning a battle of mind games.

3. Finishing options can be hard to find against characters that are too short for Fsmash and/or too maneuverable for Up-B.

Any of the above could be largely due to my lack of skill though.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Based on Frame Data, you should win in the speed department. Granted, ZSS's hitboxes aren't super great. I feel like up close, you should win since F Tilt and Jab outright should win in terms of speed. FTilt in particular, while it doesn't get much, is totally safe if blocked.

Don't sleep on Roll Forward Canceled Grab. Goes quite far and you can use it to punish things from mid range. From that grab, you have finishing options.

 

[pichuthedk]

Based on Frame Data, you should win in the speed department. Granted, ZSS's hitboxes aren't super great. I feel like up close, you should win since F Tilt and Jab outright should win in terms of speed. FTilt in particular, while it doesn't get much, is totally safe if blocked.

Don't sleep on Roll Forward Canceled Grab. Goes quite far and you can use it to punish things from mid range. From that grab, you have finishing options.

Zss doesn't just win in speed vs greninja she wins in the "wtf how did that miss" department since for some odd reason I dodge a lot of moves on the ground with her tilts, I had my suspicions about Samus taking dance classes when she was a civilian and they were confirmed when I saw her up tilt.
jokes aside her tilts doh

 

[Dakpo]

Exact numbers would be nice

Zair=10 frames of lag
Air Dodge into Zair= 22 Frames of lag

 

[Jaxas]

Zss doesn't just win in speed vs greninja she wins in the "wtf how did that miss" department since for some odd reason I dodge a lot of moves on the ground with her tilts, I had my suspicions about Samus taking dance classes when she was a civilian and they were confirmed when I saw her up tilt.
jokes aside her tilts doh

The problem is that goes both ways; Greninja tends to duck under the 2nd kick of Fsmash for example.

 

[DeLux]

Hey guys, what threads do you want to see your moderator pin?

 

[IsmaR]

I was thinking of stickying the Skype, Video and General MU threads, but never got around to it.

 

[DeLux]

Probably in agreement minus the skype thread. I'm not sure how I feel about encouraging the traffic for the site towards an elusive skype group. It's cool to have I guess, but I know that I'll personally just be posting here for the most part.

 

[IsmaR]

Was mostly keeping in mind the request a while back for a player finder thread, which the Skype thread seems to be the closest to. Not to mention numerous other character boards use/have threads for it, mostly for keeping in touch vs taking away from discussion on the site.

I don't particularly mind either way.

 

[CupofT]

I would like to see the video and MU threads pinned. Also a new thread for move discussions,data etc. I could make the thread but i wouldnt be updating the OP often.

 

[DeLux]

I have a tournament tonight gonna be streamed on www.twitch.tv/nextlevelstreaming

I should be getting to the venue at around 8pm est, and I should be going as much ZSS as possible :D

 

[Daisy101]

good to hear DeLux, wish you the best! i will do give a try for smash Intensifies single with ZSS either tonight too.

 

[David Viran]

Delux are you still maining Diddy or what?

 

[DeLux]

I'm still comaining Diddy/ZSS. However I recently came in 2nd in a local tournament using mostly Diddy. And since there's been a lot of backlash on Diddy being too good, gonna try using ZSS because she's my favorite character easily.

 

[David Viran]

Glad to hear you like zss a lot even though that should be the only reason to main characters. I mean you shouldn't stop using Diddy because of other people.

 

[DeLux]

She's such a beautiful character. Such a flawed character. But such a beautiful character.

But I care about the game as more than a player, so if I can help develop the meta that goes counter to Diddy via another character, I'm okay with tabling diddy for a little bit.

 

[David Viran]

Yeah but her nair is looking to be broken. The spacing power and amazing follow ups off of that move are insane. I love spiking people to there deaths off of a nair.

 

[DeLux]

Not gonna lie, when people start figuring out what an out of shield game is, we should be pretty terrified. The game will get a lot harder for her.

 

[David Viran]

I've noticed that nair is still pretty good about that and down Smash, ftilt, Bair, and kind of dtilt. Of course they need to be spaced decently except down smash.

Edit: choco seems to deal with that and win so there is hope.

 

[DeLux]

3DS though, we'll see. I think Dakpo and I from discussion are pretty nervous about OOS overall.

 

[David Viran]

I guess time will tell good luck at your tournament. Gotta give props to choco for spacing as well as he does on the 3ds.

 

[DeLux]

I came in third today. Not gonna lie, I got the business handed to me by Diddy and Sheik. No Johns, but the tournament ran a wee bit behind which interfered with my drinking schedule so I just decided to merge all of it together all at once into a magical smashed experience.

 

[Empyrean]

I came in third today. Not gonna lie, I got the business handed to me by Diddy and Sheik. No Johns, but the tournament ran a wee bit behind which interfered with my drinking schedule so I just decided to merge all of it together all at once into a magical smashed experience.

Lmao at least you had fun

Any link to the bracket?
If there isn't any, who placed before you?

 

[NickRiddle]

I got 2nd at a tournament to ESAM yesterday~
No videos though. I'll get some next time.

 

[pichuthedk]

T.T All my fellow zero suits doing well in tourneys and here I am still throwing sets to Rusty V115 T.T.
At least I still beat him in the ditto...WAIT A MINUTE, We were suppose to zss ditto and I would have won.

Lol

 

[NickRiddle]

In Barwl or Sm4sh?

 

[DeLux]

Kind of situational, but if you hit people with paralyzers on platforms, the knockback sends them into ledge slip. Some characters (ie Diddy) have guaranteed impact state of ledge slip which leads to a paralyzer reset which leads to a charged dsmash which leads to a boost kick which leads to the blast zone :D

The old infinite doesn't seem to work anymore though

If anyone has any other brilliant ways to set up ledge slip lemme know (since shield push is more or less not an option). I might experiment with Fair1 and Zair a bit, they seem promising but I don't know how much it matters.

 

[Jaxas]

3DS though, we'll see. I think Dakpo and I from discussion are pretty nervous about OOS overall.

I'm new to playing ZSS as of Smash 4 (played as her a bit in friendlies in Brawl, but no more), and I've been noticing this already against some of our local top players. She can't punish shields as reliably either with her laggy tether grab; definitely not used to that as a Falco main in Brawl...
Any tips on how to work around opponents shields, my grabbing tendencies, and/or being stuck in shield against someone?

 

[DeLux]

I'm new to playing ZSS as of Smash 4 (played as her a bit in friendlies in Brawl, but no more), and I've been noticing this already against some of our local top players. She can't punish shields as reliably either with her laggy tether grab; definitely not used to that as a Falco main in Brawl...
Any tips on how to work around opponents shields, my grabbing tendencies, and/or being stuck in shield against someone?

I tend to try to play the paralyzer/nair zoning game since that in essence is always playing on the offensive side of the defensive spectrum of the game. I then will leverage my shield in aggressive situations more so than defensive situations (ie put opponent in disadv position where they need to land, dash shield their attack, and boost kick OOS). For the truly defensive situations, I try to rely on her mobility as opposed to shield to reset to neutral, rather than turtling out of shield since the mobility game let's you reverse disadvantageous situations if your opponent is careless.

 

[Dakpo]

I'm new to playing ZSS as of Smash 4 (played as her a bit in friendlies in Brawl, but no more), and I've been noticing this already against some of our local top players. She can't punish shields as reliably either with her laggy tether grab; definitely not used to that as a Falco main in Brawl...
Any tips on how to work around opponents shields, my grabbing tendencies, and/or being stuck in shield against someone?

A tool that we could use in brawl was our jab. Since the full jab connects in this game, we can even get more benefits from it. Think about it as a mix up game.
Step 1: Use jab 1
Step 2: If opponent doesn't block, then finish jab combo or Connect Up B if they are floating and high in Percent
If opponent blocks then either stop jabbing and return to step 1 or continue to jab 2
Step 3: if you use jab 2 and they shield it, you can wait a while before using jab 3 to catch your opponent trying to drop shield to punish, or wait even longer and go back to step 1.

 

[Jaxas]

A tool that we could use in brawl was our jab. Since the full jab connects in this game, we can even get more benefits from it. Think about it as a mix up game.
Step 1: Use jab 1
Step 2: If opponent doesn't block, then finish jab combo or Connect Up B if they are floating and high in Percent
If opponent blocks then either stop jabbing and return to step 1 or continue to jab 2
Step 3: if you use jab 2 and they shield it, you can wait a while before using jab 3 to catch your opponent trying to drop shield to punish, or wait even longer and go back to step 1.

Wait, so jab1 -> UpB is a legit string? (I'm assuming it's not actually a combo; that would be amazing, but I don't find it likely)

And I'll be sure to use Jab mixups more; thanks!

 

[Dakpo]

Wait, so jab1 -> UpB is a legit string? (I'm assuming it's not actually a combo; that would be amazing, but I don't find it likely)

And I'll be sure to use Jab mixups more; thanks!

Its a mix up, some people will legitimately stop shield when you keep doing to full jab combo because they know they can't escape. (WORKS EASIER ON FLOATY OPPONENTS)

 

[DeLux]

Its a mix up, some people will legitimately stop shield when you keep doing to full jab combo because they know they can't escape. (WORKS EASIER ON FLOATY OPPONENTS)

I wonder if this habit will go away because of the lack of jab cancel to grab in this game. I know that I'm guilty of it, mostly because I didn't want to get thrown in a jab situation and would rather just eat the jab against some characters lol

 

[Dakpo]

I wonder if this habit will go away because of the lack of jab cancel to grab in this game. I know that I'm guilty of it, mostly because I didn't want to get thrown in a jab situation and would rather just eat the jab against some characters lol

lol palutena still can jab grab\

 

[DeLux]

lol palutena still can jab grab\

Characters that matter

 

[Jaxas]

Characters that matter

Palutena's great as long as custom moves are on, though a bit weak without them for sure