Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[tonyz723]

So does ZSS have any way of punishing Peach's Fair? Is it even punishable if spaced correctly? That move hits so freaking hard, but I've never found a reliable punish window.

 

[Funkermonster]

So at one of my last tournaments, a friend of mine was up against one of our PR members who plays ZSS just after I lost a set on stream. My buddy's a relatively good Sonic player and the best one in my region, and he lost to said PR player pretty badly, and yet he made the character look so fun and so stylish and I surprised he won so easily. On Anther Ladder about a few days ago, I went up against a Platinum ZSS and got completely destroyed the first game but adapted a bit in the next, I still lost but my opponent still amazed me with some smooth moves. I was wondering your experiences learning ZSS and how difficult it is on a scale of 1-10, as I am considering to try her out if doesn't work out for me (or at least play her for fun). I'd love opinions from at least 2 people before I make my decision, and thanks in advance for any honest answers.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So at one of my last tournaments, a friend of mine was up against one of our PR members who plays ZSS just after I lost a set on stream. My buddy's a relatively good Sonic player and the best one in my region, and he lost to said PR player pretty badly, and yet he made the character look so fun and so stylish and I surprised he won so easily. On Anther Ladder about a few days ago, I went up against a Platinum ZSS and got completely destroyed the first game but adapted a bit in the next, I still lost but my opponent still amazed me with some smooth moves. I was wondering your experiences learning ZSS and how difficult it is on a scale of 1-10, as I am considering to try her out if doesn't work out for me (or at least play her for fun). I'd love opinions from at least 2 people before I make my decision, and thanks in advance for any honest answers.

Very data and execution heavy, very training intensive. If you don't play a bunch you should play her as your only main.
You need to learn a lot of numbers to play her well too and train her combos all day long.
TL;DR Grinding is required but very rewarding.
I'd say she is easy to play at low level, very hard to play at mid level and medium at high level.

 

[ArkGaming07]

I have been playing ZSS for about a month now and have been working on her around 4 hours a week but I cant seem to get better even though I've watched tons of videos what should I do? To make matters worse I have a friend who picked up Ike at the same time and can beat me?

As well as I need to use th paralyzer more what are some good ways to do that?

 

[Kesno]

The biggest thing I noticed right away was that nair is actually staling. It starts at 10% then 9% then so on. This implies a better combo game. Maybe? The move doesn't kill to begin with so this is actually a really good thing from my point of view. Some good things to note are the more stale it gets the more combo potential it has and since we're using it all the time it will make all of our other moves unstale.
EDIT: I went back on my friend's unupdated version on Wii U and an even earlier patch on my 3DS and checked so this wasn't true unfortunately. It always had the properties to stale. I had always thought that it never staled. I guess I was running off my Brawl knowledge more than I thought lol. So false alarm guys.

 

[free33]

I have been playing ZSS for about a month now and have been working on her around 4 hours a week but I cant seem to get better even though I've watched tons of videos what should I do? To make matters worse I have a friend who picked up Ike at the same time and can beat me?

As well as I need to use th paralyzer more what are some good ways to do that?

do you know how to B reverse? that can help maximize the use of paralyzer. Learn how to B reverse the paralyze if you don't know how

 

[EGP Red Reaper]

My question is what do you guys prefer for the C-Stick? Setting it to Smash or to Attack? I kan't quite make up my mind... What would you say the pros and cons are?

 

[Soul Train]

Can anyone tell me the impact of the boost kick nerf? How much later does it kill now?

 

[Otterz]

Can anyone tell me the impact of the boost kick nerf? How much later does it kill now?

From what I heard it was only 5-10% later, but I haven't tested it. Also I think DI Down is more effective.

 

[KirbyFan20]

Is it better to DI or SDI ZSS's up special? Also, which way is the best to DI the up special in general?

I don't get to practice this MU very often.

 

[Soul Train]

Is it better to DI or SDI ZSS's up special? Also, which way is the best to DI the up special in general?

I don't get to practice this MU very often.

Trifroze made a whole video on this right here. My question is just how much of this applies after the patch.

 

[KirbyFan20]

Trifroze made a whole video on this right here. My question is just how much of this applies after the patch.

Thank you for this, don't know how I never found this.

 

[Xenigmah]

Hey there blondies. I picked up ZSS as my main for my journey into competitive smash 4. I've been watching tons of matches and reading tons of guides to improve my scrubby play. I have been practicing spacing my nairs to make them safe. I finally got down the whole SH/FF nair spaced low to the ground and as away as possible from a static greninja (if im not mistaken, he is the shortest). Now I am practicing my spaced nairs on a cpu set to run. My question is, is this a good way to practice my SH/FF nair pokes and conversions? I fear Im somehow going to get used to a retreating opponent and will get bodied on a real match.

 

[AstroCRiS]

Hey fellow Zss'. Can you guys tell me which characters don't get hit by down smash by the edge when they don't have invincibility?

 

[Retro X]

Alright guys, I've been having a couple issues as of late:

1. How to guarantee the dsmash to flip jump spike punish.

A lot of times I don't get the spike hit of flip jump, but when I do it "feels" right, yet I'm not sure what I'm doing to get it.
Does it have to do with which way I'm facing before the flipjump?
Timing for pressing the attack button?
Holding a certain direction while pressing the attack button?
I've been testing with inconsistent results, hoping someone knows the specifics.

2. Punishing and recognizing getup options.

Especially against jump + immediate airdodge. I'm assuming I should just wait out the airdodge?
Normal getup to shield is also hard to deal with due to the slow grab.
Also how to tell which getup option was selected based on opponent's animation.

3. Punishing Dark Pit's roll.

I've been tilting against a Dark Pit player who likes to roll behind me and downsmash a lot. In general he likes to do roll behind. As other characters I like to pivot grab this but zss' pivot grab is very slow AND very punishable on whiff, so I don't like to do this. Looking at the frame data I should be able to drop shield and ftilt Dark Pit if I'm close enough, but if I can't do this or don't react in time/get down smashed I feel like I'm in an awkward position with me facing the other way and him being too close to zss.

Also I will point out that this particular Dark Pit player does NOT grab until I'm at kill percent, which really throws me off bc to me Dark Pit is a very grab based character, I'm playing in a way to avoid and be ready to punish grabs the whole time and he just doesn't do it, it's baffling. I guess I should hold shield more?

_______________________________

lol it seems I've taken the "Quick" Question part of this thread quite liberally.

 

[chris1855]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U4W07em_NSM
Any advice for my Zss play?

 

[FadedImage]

My question is what do you guys prefer for the C-Stick? Setting it to Smash or to Attack? I kan't quite make up my mind... What would you say the pros and cons are?

Smash:

• Cleaner F-Smash/D-Smash punishes
• Cleaner N-Air > D-Smash combos
• Quicker U-Smash anti-airs

Attack:

• Perfect pivot F-Tilts/U-Tilts
• Cleaner U-Tilt punishes
• Better control on aerials

Personally, I run Attack because I think U-Tilt OOS is one of ZSS's most important defensive options.

Alright guys, I've been having a couple issues as of late:

1. How to guarantee the dsmash to flip jump spike punish.

2. Punishing and recognizing getup options.

3. Punishing Dark Pit's roll.

1. Unlike Brawl, the spike no longer has anything to do with timing, and is completely location based. Make sure you are high enough above the opponent or far enough away that only the tip of the foot connects with the opponent. And believe me, the tip of the foot is really far. After a D-Smash at the ledge, if the opponent is around 50%, you generally have to get to short-hop height before performing the Flip Jump in order to get the spike (with no DI).

2. Honestly, I've given up on punishing ledge options because ZSS's coverage is so bad. I highly recommend just going for trumps every time. Our trump is by far the fastest and has the most coverage in the game. Run off ledge > Side-B back into stage > roll control stick up to grab ledge for the trump. From here, two options: 1. Drop off > B-Air (if you think they're not ready) or 2. Down drop > Double Jump U-Air (to cover buffered jumps) > Landing U-Air (to cover buffered rolls).

3. Drop shield U-Tilt is probably going to be your best option here, much faster than F-Tilt, meaning less reaction necessary. It also covers both sides, meaning less fuss about the exact ending position.

 

[Otterz]

I've been struggling with Nair > Bair which is obviously a good kill option. Is there a certain percent range for this combo, or am I just not getting the RAR Bair out fast enough? I feel like its a golden percent kind of thing, but I could just need more practice.

 

[chris1855]

I've been struggling with Nair > Bair which is obviously a good kill option. Is there a certain percent range for this combo, or am I just not getting the RAR Bair out fast enough? I feel like its a golden percent kind of thing, but I could just need more practice.

works at many percents, just work on getting the rar fast enough

 

[Retro X]

Smash:

• Cleaner F-Smash/D-Smash punishes
• Cleaner N-Air > D-Smash combos
• Quicker U-Smash anti-airs

Attack:

• Perfect pivot F-Tilts/U-Tilts
• Cleaner U-Tilt punishes
• Better control on aerials

Personally, I run Attack because I think U-Tilt OOS is one of ZSS's most important defensive options.



1. Unlike Brawl, the spike no longer has anything to do with timing, and is completely location based. Make sure you are high enough above the opponent or far enough away that only the tip of the foot connects with the opponent. And believe me, the tip of the foot is really far. After a D-Smash at the ledge, if the opponent is around 50%, you generally have to get to short-hop height before performing the Flip Jump in order to get the spike (with no DI).

2. Honestly, I've given up on punishing ledge options because ZSS's coverage is so bad. I highly recommend just going for trumps every time. Our trump is by far the fastest and has the most coverage in the game. Run off ledge > Side-B back into stage > roll control stick up to grab ledge for the trump. From here, two options: 1. Drop off > B-Air (if you think they're not ready) or 2. Down drop > Double Jump U-Air (to cover buffered jumps) > Landing U-Air (to cover buffered rolls).

3. Drop shield U-Tilt is probably going to be your best option here, much faster than F-Tilt, meaning less reaction necessary. It also covers both sides, meaning less fuss about the exact ending position.

Thanks so much man, especially on the flip jump spike part. As for Dark Pit, I ended up giving up on zss for that mu and was able to take out the guy who played him with a reset in grands with Sheik after losing to him 3-1 in winners finals with zss, the main problem was me being unaware of how safe his dsmash is and making bad reads/attempting to punish dark pit things that really weren't punishable with zss (her grab/u-tilt lag too much, Sheik doesn't have this problem.) Sucks I still need my zss for his rosa, when I can beat both of his char easily with sheik I can avoid the counterpick char war.

 

[DragonBall_Zack]

Hey guys, there some really good Kirby players in my region who I'm having a tough time playing against as ZSS. Could anyone give me advice on what I should be doing in the match up and how to deal with Kirby in general? Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Reizilla]

For the footstool out of down b, I know it won't hit a grounded opponent if they're in an action, but what about in the air? Say against Duck Hunt's Up B, will it hit him out of it or will I just footstool jump and nothing will happen to him? I can't test right now, but I'd like to know how it works.

 

[YoHeKing]

Do you guys know if zss can down throw up air up air up b kill sheik at all? I was testing with zss at 100% rage and sheik 30%, 125% 30%, and 80% 40% and couldnt get zss to kill with the combo at all with rage but can it kill with lower rage even with perfect DI? Anyone know the percents?

 

[chris1855]

Do you guys know if zss can down throw up air up air up b kill sheik at all? I was testing with zss at 100% rage and sheik 30%, 125% 30%, and 80% 40% and couldnt get zss to kill with the combo at all with rage but can it kill with lower rage even with perfect DI? Anyone know the percents?

With rage just make sheiks percent lower to make it work lol

 

[iMeeHow]

Do people react to down throw DI, or is there a way to catch every DI?

I find that sometimes I jump forward to catch people DIing away, and if they DId in, my up air will miss. Other times I jump straight up in case they DI'd in, but if they jumped away I won't get anything. Is there a jump angle to catch every DI, or should I try to train myself to react to DI before jumping?

 

[Megamang]

I think you react to the DI after jumping, by using a bair if they are behind you. In certain situations, you can hit with the last part of uair, which actually gives you the best possible frame advantage and a free bair.

Hopefully someone can fill you in on the specifics, but I will say you can watch Nairo for very consistent dthrow followups, some true combos and some mixups that work when people expect the true combos.

 

[chris1855]

I need help with autocancelling dair

 

[Otterz]

I need help with autocancelling dair

It auto cancels?

 

[chris1855]

It auto cancels?

yeah, I can do it but only very occasionally. It's a great mind game and mix up tool, and can also combo. The ground hitbox doesnt appear if you autocancel it

 

[Otterz]

yeah, I can do it but only very occasionally. It's a great mind game and mix up tool, and can also combo. The ground hitbox doesnt appear if you autocancel it

I'd love to see this or learn details. Sounds interesting.

 

[Megamang]

It auto cancels after frame 50.. so just use it high enough off the ground that you go through 50 frames of animation before you land.

This is decent in situations where you are really high in the air and want to return quickly, or if someone barely misspaces in the air and you want to punish and land at the same time.

 

[J_the_Man]

Dumb question I should know already, but is the spike hitbox on Flip Jump Kick a disjoint? Or why is it that I do not trade with aerial hitboxes when I get the spike hitbox?

 

[David Viran]

Dumb question I should know already, but is the spike hitbox on Flip Jump Kick a disjoint? Or why is it that I do not trade with aerial hitboxes when I get the spike hitbox?

Yes. The spike hitbox is on the foot and everything past it. It just so happens that the hitbox extends way past her foot.

Edit: For visual reference

http://smashboards.com/threads/zero-suit-samus-hitbox-visualization.432596/

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I heard about the KBG on Bthrow was increased drastically (along with a slight buff to BKB). Since I don´t have the game on me atm & I´m impatient, could anyone tell me if Bthrow is a potential kill throw?

 

[Trespayne]

It's not a kill throw. I hardly notice any difference.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Ok thats good to know. I literally just just looked at the numbers and assumed it was strong af lmao.

 

[C0rvus]

Is it true that ZSS' up air is negative on hit now? Or is it just at low percent?

 

[Shaya]

It was negative on hit at low percent before too.
So... probably even worse now~

 

[Iceweasel]

Is it true that ZSS' up air is negative on hit now? Or is it just at low percent?

At low percents, opponents can easily airdodge out of your second uair.

I'm starting to think that the best way to nerf a character is for me to pick it up. This is the third or fourth time I've decided to pick up a character and it gets nerfed less than a month later.

 

[SeismicWhales]

I'm starting to think that the best way to nerf a character is for me to pick it up. This is the third or fourth time I've decided to pick up a character and it gets nerfed less than a month later.

Pick up Bayonetta please