Zelda's Tier

[S2]

If Fox just runs away and lasers (correctly), then yeah.

Zelda's approach is terrible.

This is why Zelda can't really compete with anyone who has a projectile. It unfortunate that she has no approaches for being a character based around spacing (so you can get that kick in).

If their smart they will camp forever and play keep away.

Then again, a lot of players can be tricked into playing aggressively.

 

[Buh]

Well, Zelda can approach Samus and Doc, whose projectiles aren't so good that Zelda can't do anything about it. She can also handle Link and Young Link relatively well. It's Fox, Falco and Sheik that give her the most difficulty.

And some players can't be tricked. I play with Hylian all the time, and his "style of play" is to sit there and SHDL and wait for you to **** up. It's annoying, and not really a good idea for a general style of play, but it works wonders against Zelda, because a Zelda approaching is basically messing up. And she has to approach Fox.

 

[Zone]

Well, Zelda can approach Samus and Doc, whose projectiles aren't so good that Zelda can't do anything about it. She can also handle Link and Young Link relatively well. It's Fox, Falco and Sheik that give her the most difficulty.

And some players can't be tricked. I play with Hylian all the time, and his "style of play" is to sit there and SHDL and wait for you to **** up. It's annoying, and not really a good idea for a general style of play, but it works wonders against Zelda, because a Zelda approaching is basically messing up. And she has to approach Fox.

Yea that strategy is gay to play as Zelda as. It's so gay, I say F-it and go shiek. But If I call out being Zelda, The only way I can think of making him come to me, Is to stall on the edge. He can't hit you with lazers then. Gotta do it w/o taking any damage though if they are gay and are willing to ride the clock with their 5% on you.

Other than that, you're best off just doing fake approaches with dash dances and wave dashes to try and keep him from baiting you. ; ;

 

[darkatma]

Or all the zelda players could switch to peach and then have much better matchups against everything except fox and marth xP

but what fun would that be?

 

[Darkmusician]

I hope the Smash Dojo comes out with more Zelda screenshots. We all use the same Zelda poses in all of our sigs. =w=

*sigh* Fox is very strong. (gay, cheap etc) But it's the one character that I would like to play against the most. It's the match up I want to be the best at. That and Marth and Sheik.

 

[Buh]

Yea that strategy is gay to play as Zelda as. It's so gay, I say F-it and go shiek. But If I call out being Zelda, The only way I can think of making him come to me, Is to stall on the edge. He can't hit you with lazers then. Gotta do it w/o taking any damage though if they are gay and are willing to ride the clock with their 5% on you.

Other than that, you're best off just doing fake approaches with dash dances and wave dashes to try and keep him from baiting you. ; ;

Fox can punish you for the ledge-stall, but it's very hard. He can do a reverse wave-shine BS complicated Silent Wolf-esque move, which results in you not being on the edge anymore. O_o

Or all the zelda players could switch to peach and then have much better matchups against everything except fox and marth xP

but what fun would that be?

Peach does better against Fox and Marth than Zelda does. >_>

 

[Villi]

I'm a relatively new Zelda/Sheik player (main Peach), but I think Zelda is an awesome punisher -- she's all about finding openings and killing in very few hits. If your opponent plays too defensively/forces you to approach, you either play your hand with some mind games or you change to Sheik and combo the camp out of them. I don't think Zelda was designed to be a main-able character, instead meant to be used in conjunction with Sheik -- situationally.

Depending on how I feel about whom I'm up against, I'll hold down A (or not) before a match. lol If I'm at a high percentage, Sheik just doesn't die as easily after being hit; and I'll change to at least get a few critical hits in.

It always feels so cool, though, to transform back into Zelda to recover from where Sheik wouldn't be able to and just barely sweet-spot the edge. So in that situation, what can you do with Zelda? You can recover with a quick f-air from the ledge, and maybe it won't be a baby hit; you can drop down a little and use a u-air, fast-fall and sweet-spot back; or you can drop down, transform into Sheik again and recover however you like. I know that I'll occasionally catch Marth off guard by f-air recovering with Zelda, and he's usually right at the tip of my foot. Gotta change it up, though.

You'll probably know right off the bat if someone doesn't have a lot of experience playing against Zelda. When I fought my first Zelda as a n00b Peach, all she did was run away from me in Hyrule, back-kick me and kill me at 80%. Pretty much, they'll run right into your kicks because they have no idea what's going on. They won't know where you'll land with your Farore's Wind, etc.

Otherwise, against good players, it's probably best to use her when you're at a low percentage and they're mid-high; to change the pace for mind-games; or to go for a surprise F/U-smash KO.

I like to edge-guard with Zelda if I see that my opponent is coming from above, since she can double-jump out, position herself, f/b-air, and still make it back safely with Farore's Wind. lol It's also hilarious to actually get her spike to work.

Anyway, I'm not the best Zelda player but I have a good hit-percentage. This is my favorite Zelda video.

My approach to Zelda is to watch my opponent more than myself. Work the camera-angles by turning around, spinning in place, or dash dancing. Control the pace of the match and catch your opponent off-guard. Also, I try always to land on my feet (smash left/right at the axis of your fall parabola) -- it just keeps you from looking sloppy.

Din's Flame -- As you may have seen in the video is very simple to use in the right situations. It works best after a b-throw (especially), a f-air, or a f-smash. I find that people fall in a very predictable manner because of the game's physic's engine. When they're falling and then double-jumping back toward the ledge, or even just landing on the floor, they fall in a very natural looking parabola. If you start the Din's Flame immediately after your opponent is launched, it'll be just slow enough to catch them after their next crucial move. Even if your opponent is slightly above you, keep in mind that they're falling and that you're basically trying to pinpoint the moment when they will land on your explosion. Eventually they'll grow some balls and start fast-falling when they figure out you're watching them, but then all you have to do is explode it in their face instead of under their feet. Depending on the angle that they hit it, that is the direction they will go. I like catching them from below because it bounces them up and leaves them open for that last f-air.

U-Air -- I like this move a lot. I only use it with the c-stick, and immediately fast-fall after the strike. The timing is tricky, since you have to wait a beat. But, I find that if you fast-fall immediately after the strike that makes the hit, it's tremendously easier to intuitively learn the timing. Instead of waiting until the peak of your ascent before c-sticking up*, wait until just before the peak -- you'll know you did it right because Zelda's arm and head will be covered by the explosion a little bit as opposed to the explosion being somewhere above her head. The fire is all for show; it doesn't do anything -- Zelda needs to touch the opponent.
* (It just helps to eliminate that annoying double jump lag/air-halt -- if you're jumping and holding up at the same time, good luck hitting anyone who knows how to fall side-ways.)

Tilt Game -- This may just be me, but I love her forward, up, and diagonal tilts... With the hand waving and the magic sparkles. It's why I started playing Zelda. It just looks so hard-core to swipe at the ground, even if they do roll away and it misses. Usually, I'm sure the f-smash is the better option... But if you position yourself so that you get them right at the tip, they'll fly straight up. The range is shorter than the f-smash, tho, and she leans forward instead of back so she's more vulnerable buuut... It's cool, and a better set-up at certain percentages than f-smash :embarrass Dash attack, wave dash forward, and catch them in a bounce with a quick swipe followed by a f-air or u-air(!), depending on which direction they go.

That's all I got that I haven't read on these boards yet. Hope it was helpful to someone. Oh! In conclusion, Zelda has a limited skill-set so you have to be creative if you don't want to be boring. Still, it's silly to complain because all you have to do is press down-b for a whole new one.

 

[Darkmusician]

That was very nice. :]

Welcome to the Zelda boards. I hope you will add your input on the other threads as well. v^_^

 

[S2]

Lately I've been playing around with using Zelda's forward roll as an approach (obviously when your at a safe range).

I rarely see players use the forward roll when approaching with any character. Obviously for many characters its a weaker choice (like if I were Falcon, why bother when he's got better/faster approaches)....

but with Zelda's terrible WD and running jump speed, its kind of mixes up your approach.

Basically, I do a lot of rolling when right outside of an opponent's potential attack range. The idea being that you try and sucker them closer to you because they want to chase and punish, but being just far enough that they can't reach you before you come out of the roll. Obviously, "attack range" differs depending on your opponent.

Doing in a few uncommon (but safe) rolls, with a mixture of both running and walking.

And this is already under the assumption that whoever your player knows Zelda's approach weakness and is being a dirty camper.

Like I said, its not a great strat, but I'm playing around with it when playing friendlies.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Speaking of camping, are there any ways to counter that with Zelda at all? I haven't really been camped by anyone before (effectively anyway. But that's because they were bad, not because I was good), but foresee it happening in the near future. I would like to know what options I have with stopping it before it screws me over. I'm assuming Din's Fire won't work. Anti-Fox/Falco-camping tips in particular would be great.

Powershield everything. If it does more damage to them than it does to you, they'd probably try something else... I'm more worried about the other crap that space animals can do to Zelda.

 

[Zone]

Fox can punish you for the ledge-stall, but it's very hard. He can do a reverse wave-shine BS complicated Silent Wolf-esque move, which results in you not being on the edge anymore. O_o

I know this lol.

But atleast it's a game involving him coming after you. Instead of you being easily baited. I've been tricked before. Fox grabbing edges while i'm stalling, or forward tilting me. (Which are the safer methods imo. More safe than trying to shine Zelda.) Cuz like I said a million times. Zelda can change her edge stalling spacing quite a nice (yet still small) bit. But I've also, gotten some free kicks against fox after Up+B hits. Especially sometimes when he's running to the edge, mindlessly thinking it's going to be easy, and his forward running momentum forces him over the edge after up+B hits, for a b-air. And you got more options than just repeatedly stalling. Like stop stalling when you think fox is trying to grab the edge from you >.> so your holding the edge. Back-drop when he trys to tilt you, or as he approaches. Jump over and space a kick--> Regrab edge, or try and l-cancel. Or my Fav--> Neutral Air --> Grab. Jump over Z --> Lcancel with another Z --> Then Z to grab >.>.

Anyways my point is atleast you have a place to hide from lazers if they don't try and ride the clock I mean. As they approach you finally.

Risky? Yes. But has that ever stopped falcons from trying to get that knee on jiggs off stage.

It's a gay match-up regardless. Just a different game you can try against fox, than getting baited and lazered, the entire match.

Peach does better against Fox and Marth than Zelda does. >_>

That's what he was saying >.>..

He's saying be peach so you are better matched at nearly everything EXCEPT against Marth or Fox.

 

[Buh]

I know this lol.

But atleast it's a game involving him coming after you. Instead of you being easily baited. I've been tricked before. Fox grabbing edges while i'm stalling, or forward tilting me. (Which are the safer methods imo. More safe than trying to shine Zelda.) Cuz like I said a million times. Zelda can change her edge stalling spacing quite a nice (yet still small) bit. But I've also, gotten some free kicks against fox after Up+B hits. Especially sometimes when he's running to the edge, mindlessly thinking it's going to be easy, and his forward running momentum forces him over the edge after up+B hits, for a b-air. And you got more options than just repeatedly stalling. Like stop stalling when you think fox is trying to grab the edge from you >.> so your holding the edge. Back-drop when he trys to tilt you, or as he approaches. Jump over and space a kick--> Regrab edge, or try and l-cancel. Or my Fav--> Neutral Air --> Grab. Jump over Z --> Lcancel with another Z --> Then Z to grab >.>.

Anyways my point is atleast you have a place to hide from lazers if they don't try and ride the clock I mean. As they approach you finally.

Risky? Yes. But has that ever stopped falcons from trying to get that knee on jiggs off stage.

It's a gay match-up regardless. Just a different game you can try against fox, than getting baited and lazered, the entire match.

Well, if they **** up trying to ruin your edge stall, the up-B pops them up, which sets up for fair very nicely.

That's what he was saying >.>..

He's saying be peach so you are better matched at nearly everything EXCEPT against Marth or Fox.

Except with Peach you are better matched against Fox and Marth.

 

[Zone]

Well, if they **** up trying to ruin your edge stall, the up-B pops them up, which sets up for fair very nicely.



Except with Peach you are better matched against Fox and Marth.

1.) Yes, this game is based around punishing enemy mistakes.

2.) Yea I guess he's basically saying Stop playing Zelda play Peach. But what he said still isn't wrong >.>; PEach has hard time against Fox and MArth. I guess you think he's saying Zelda > Peach vs Fox and MArth.

I think he's saying have peach to fight high tiers on the side. But Peach still won't help you with the fox and MArth problem.

Instead of us figuring out what he means. HE should post >.>