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Zelda Video Discussion

jtm94

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
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1,384
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I'll check those out, I love watching teams, let alone with Zelda.
I'm jealous, he's from the same campus as me and I haven't talked to/played him since last week. Definitely gonna work on my skills.
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
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The Zelda Boards
Wow, Zhime, u so gud, it's a shame you couldn't take out M2K, but people definately shouldn't count you out as an amazing player.

EVER.
 

otheusrex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
342
wow zhime, you DESTROYED chillindude! It's kinda interesting how the melee vets try to deal with nayru though. I noticed Chillingdude shining out of nayru, and mango up b-ing it with falcon. I wonder if those are things
 

Luthien

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
792
Location
Victoria, British Columbia
Some great footage from Zhime, who just took 2nd place at Pound 5.5!

Zhime (Zelda) vs Mango (Falcon) | Pound 5.5
CT EMP Mew2King (Falco/Sheik/Fox) vs Zhime (Zelda) | Pound 5.5
CT EMP Mew2King (Fox) vs Zhime (Zelda) | Pound 5.5
Wow. Genuinely inspiring.

Question about that last match with M2K's ledgegrab stalling: does Zelda have any good options here? Outside of just waiting and hoping the Sheik slips up and suicides?

I know that usually it's impossible to claim the ledge from Sheik while she's stalling, but would Zelda be able to turn the stall into a suicide with the tech we have in Project M? I know usually the explosive part of Sheik's teleport prevents her opponents from getting in and grabbing the ledge before she can, but it seems to me like Zelda might be able to teleport in herself and claim the ledge for herself in between Sheik's teleports.

Since Zelda can actually sweetspot the ledge straight out of her own teleport from above the stage, it looks like the ledge might be available for enough frames for this to work, even if the Sheik is stalling flawlessly.

Am I crazy? Is Zelda's teleport just too slow? Because if we could turn Sheik's mindless stalling against her, I think that would be pretty great.

Edit:
Lol nvm a commentator totally mentioned this idea in one of Zhime's earlier matches against M2K's Sheik just ignore me
 

otheusrex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
342
i was wondering that myself, but I think zelda's teleport wouldn't be fast enough to catch the ledge before sheik would, unless the sheik were going on autopilot and you started your teleport before they left the ledge in anticipation of their next ledge grab. This obviously wouldn't have worked against m2k cause he was just waiting for zhime to do something stupid so he could punish. Although, if m2k were suspecting zhime to try to teleport ledge grab then zhime might have been able to trick m2k into getting off the ledge by just teleporting somewhere else on the stage. But then again that would leave the sheik in the air or on the ground with no lag, and zelda suffering from the serious landing lag of her up b.

I'd say overall, zhime did the best thing he could have in that situation: don't freak out, and wait in a good position because they can't stall for ever
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
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Wow. Genuinely inspiring.

Question about that last match with M2K's ledgegrab stalling: does Zelda have any good options here? Outside of just waiting and hoping the Sheik slips up and suicides?

I know that usually it's impossible to claim the ledge from Sheik while she's stalling, but would Zelda be able to turn the stall into a suicide with the tech we have in Project M? I know usually the explosive part of Sheik's teleport prevents her opponents from getting in and grabbing the ledge before she can, but it seems to me like Zelda might be able to teleport in herself and claim the ledge for herself in between Sheik's teleports.

Since Zelda can actually sweetspot the ledge straight out of her own teleport from above the stage, it looks like the ledge might be available for enough frames for this to work, even if the Sheik is stalling flawlessly.

Am I crazy? Is Zelda's teleport just too slow? Because if we could turn Sheik's mindless stalling against her, I think that would be pretty great.

Edit:
Lol nvm a commentator totally mentioned this idea in one of Zhime's earlier matches against M2K's Sheik just ignore me

Another option for this is to use this ledge grab trick a lot in their presence when they're not ledge camping so they KNOW it's possible for you to snatch the ledge like a boss, and then when they're ledge camping, play mindgames with them and make it look like you'll steal their ledge, but just reappear on the ground. IDK, that might get them to get off for a second at least. :ohwell:
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
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At least you know someone who can shino stall. :p

Well, good luck! I hope you can grab the ledge. It would be very lulzy and helpful if it could be done consistently.


Actually... I still can't figure out how to auto-grab the ledge from above over the stage and such. Could someone explain how it's done?
 

otheusrex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
342
auto grab with zelda? you teleport from the air towards the direction of the ledge and let go just after you've input the direction you want to travel. Then she'll grab the ledge. Practice it close to the ledge first since it gets harder the farther you get away
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
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auto grab with zelda? you teleport from the air towards the direction of the ledge and let go just after you've input the direction you want to travel. Then she'll grab the ledge. Practice it close to the ledge first since it gets harder the farther you get away

Thanks. I did a bit of practice and got it down pretty quick. It should defiantly be used more often by zeldas, it's so fun and useful. :p
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
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also, if there is a misc section, one of the Zeldas I decided to train awhile back has blossomed into a wonderful player. Alene released a CV to be a sequel of my latest one, enjoy Zeldas <3
(I even made a special appearance in the video!)

TY Alene, much love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUCTM9WsW8

Hooray for Zelda combo vids! The more great Zeldas, the better. <3

Also, something cute I noticed about you and Alene's playstyles is that Alene generally sets dins in front of her (offensively) for combos/setups, while you generally set them ambiently/backwards (defensively) for combos/setups. Both seem to work very effectively. :)
 
Joined
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OKC, OK
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this may be odd, but i ran into a wall recently at SBW2 against Link. im sure it was just because i had never played against someone who used that many projectiles up until now but i couldnt approach. looking back i could probably use FW to approach better but other than that.... anyone else have approach issues vs an item heavy Link? ill have a vid of it eventually.
 

jtm94

Smash Lord
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Pittsburgh, PA
^^^^ I had the same issues, my friend plays a super aggro Link and I do well enough against him, but in tourney I came up against a ridiculously campy Link and I was thrown off. My advice is to just play cautiously, don't just keep trying to beast through the projectiles. You can use dins for days if he isn't approaching. Nayru's isn't too good against Link as his projectiles won't hinder him much if you reflect them so shielding is best(if grounded).
 

Arcalyth

GLS | root
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Oct 1, 2012
Messages
650
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West MI
A combination of land-canceled Nayru's Love, Din's Fire, Farore's Wind, shield>wavedash, fair/bair, dash attack, and ftilt will get you past Link's projectiles. :)

WDOOS and Up-B out of shield are both good because shielding will beat Link's projectiles when he's out of grab range. Everything else will clank or reflect the projectiles back at him. You can waveland out of fair/bair as well.

You do have to play a bit patiently (if you haven't realized this as Zelda yet, please realize it :p) to get past his labyrinth but it certainly isn't impossible and you can punish Link harder than he can punish you once you're in.
 
Joined
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yea i figured it was something as simple as that ARC, i just wasnt used to playing someone so campy. i beat his main (snake) with ease then switched it up on me with Link. Im used to people approaching me so i was thrown haha.. appreciate it. vids soon!
 

Zerudahime

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
145
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Johnstown, PA
@Tank, just so you are aware, those moves chaining into each other, dont work that way in the real turbo mode. the wifi turbo set allows u to link the same move over and over, but the offline official build does not. So keep that in mind as well when you are using it.
 

Frost | Odds

Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
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Calgary, Alberta
A lot of the videos I'm seeing have you guys transforming between Zelda/Sheik at apparently arbitrary times. I would think it would make more sense to play Sheik until the opponent is at a fairly high %, then switch to Zelda for the finisher?
 
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A lot of the videos I'm seeing have you guys transforming between Zelda/Sheik at apparently arbitrary times. I would think it would make more sense to play Sheik until the opponent is at a fairly high %, then switch to Zelda for the finisher?
Only if you would like to play both. Most people view the as seperate characters and wish to use them as such. People enjoy Zeldas play style more than Sheiks and vice versa. Good observation tho. Never a bad idea that one.
 

Arcalyth

GLS | root
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West MI
A lot of the videos I'm seeing have you guys transforming between Zelda/Sheik at apparently arbitrary times. I would think it would make more sense to play Sheik until the opponent is at a fairly high %, then switch to Zelda for the finisher?
Zelda racks up damage really fast and has a phenomenal low-percent combo game. There are a few different ways to play Sheilda, though. The method you mentioned is certainly viable.

I like using Zelda to get the opponent into a range where I can easily tech chase or chaingrab them as Sheik. I also like using Sheik's needles to get the opponent up to a point where I can combo off of Din's Fire. I can use either of them for finishing. You can get pretty creative with Transform, honestly, you just have to analyze the situation and decide which parts of each character you'll integrate into your strategy.
 

Spralwers

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
517
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MA

WhiteLightnin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
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Albuquerque, NM
Hey Spralwers! Thanks for the heads up and posting these videos. It's always great to see more Zelda representation especially showing different sides to her. Please don't hesitate to keep posting and if there is streaming I'm sure others would be happy to watch. The Zelda Social thread would be a great place to put info about streaming. Thanks again!:)
 

Downdraft

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
556
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Huntsville, AL
@ Spralwers Spralwers Thanks for the link to the playlist.
There are 3 great matches of KoreanDJ (Zelda) vs Wolf (Link), whom both are listed as Top Players by Character Redux.
KoreanDJ won all 3. I'll need to watch them a few more times to digest what occurred, but I learned that Fthrow is useful.
KoreanDJ has practically mastered Zelda's sweetspotted kicks, and there's several excellent uses of Dair in the videos.
Overall, I enjoyed watching the matches, and hopefully they will help me versus the Link I face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCot8PMdLGU&list=UUMIYJSORx7Ssl2Fm3qKa6Tw&index=43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpvqgPLHLbU&list=UUMIYJSORx7Ssl2Fm3qKa6Tw&index=52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofehrrk9kgc&list=UUMIYJSORx7Ssl2Fm3qKa6Tw&index=24
 

ShadowGanon

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
1,120
Location
Washington
also, if there is a misc section, one of the Zeldas I decided to train awhile back has blossomed into a wonderful player. Alene released a CV to be a sequel of my latest one, enjoy Zeldas <3
(I even made a special appearance in the video!)

TY Alene, much love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUCTM9WsW8
Oh, my goodness. Did anyone else see that teleport juggle at 2:31? That was ridiculous.
 

DwightDL

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
41
Hola!
Here's some matches I had from Northwest Majors last weekend that I'd love some criticism on.

Me vs. FreeToby. His Charzard is good and I get destroyed. I am really unfamiliar with this matchup and would like some advice (i get it; watch out for his nair lol). Counterpicking to Wario Ware was a horrible idea in hindsight. I tend to like it with Zelda in a lot of match ups since I can kill with the back throw so early and get early toe kills, but I think that it is way better for Charzard.
http://www.twitch.tv/zodiacsmash/b/525497821?t=7h4m53s

Me vs. Artifice. Solid Peach player. The games were close but I ended up taking it 2-0
http://www.twitch.tv/zodiacsmash/b/525497821?t=8h48m22s

Bonus:
One stock long Zelda ditto between me and M2K (before he gets kicked off for a tournament match). I take credit for showing him how to teledash lol
http://www.twitch.tv/zodiacsmash/b/525497821?t=7h1m48s
 

Rizner

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
642
Location
FL -> AZ -> OH
Hola!
Here's some matches I had from Northwest Majors last weekend that I'd love some criticism on.

Me vs. FreeToby. His Charzard is good and I get destroyed. I am really unfamiliar with this matchup and would like some advice (i get it; watch out for his nair lol). Counterpicking to Wario Ware was a horrible idea in hindsight. I tend to like it with Zelda in a lot of match ups since I can kill with the back throw so early and get early toe kills, but I think that it is way better for Charzard.
http://www.twitch.tv/zodiacsmash/b/525497821?t=7h4m53s

Me vs. Artifice. Solid Peach player. The games were close but I ended up taking it 2-0
http://www.twitch.tv/zodiacsmash/b/525497821?t=8h48m22s

Bonus:
One stock long Zelda ditto between me and M2K (before he gets kicked off for a tournament match). I take credit for showing him how to teledash lol
http://www.twitch.tv/zodiacsmash/b/525497821?t=7h1m48s
So far I've only watched the Charizard match -- will try to watch the others later (tomorrow?) but can't guarantee it. If there's anything specific you're wondering about those matchups let me know and I'll definitely check them out.

For the set I did watch, you should probably know the following: You can tech zard's downthrow -- learn the timing for it and you can tech away or in place or something so it isn't a guaranteed followup. His up throw has pretty much a 45 degree angle, so you usually want to DI it just a tiny bit in a direction to get that corner angle -- sometimes not at all. When he carries you up (like uair, uair, upb combo) you'll kinda have to time a neutral b to fall through or if you have the time start an up b and get below him. Bad situation to be in but sometimes unavoidable. Basically, try to keep the fight horizontal or you below him. When you get him on platforms like you did on PS2, neutral air is usually a really good option. There are other things you can do when reading him, but I noticed a couple times you tried doing neutral b for a platform chase. That's a pretty risky move up there because it's hard to get up and start it at a place where you can land cancel and before they can react and get away. Nair gives you more time to get up, attack with a long lasting hit box, and get safe in case they shield it or something. That pertains when going against a lot of the cast, although there are definitely situations where other moves are better. I noticed sometimes you were across the stage and threw down three dins all ground level, so he could glide / jump between the platforms and get to you easily -- usually when I'm in that situation I'll make sure that one of them is in the air so they have to think more to get at me, and it shuts down more of their options.

I noticed that the specific zard you went against did mostly nair approaches. You would try to hit it back, but he was approaching in a way where if you just stayed grounded and shielded, you could get a kick or grab punish on him. Instead if he was above you, you'd try jumping to uair or kick him, and if you were grounded you'd try something like an ftilt or jumping to do something and get hit. Sometimes it's fine to just give him space and see what he tries following up with. If it's another nair, bait a few out, then run at him and shield one so you're close enough to punish. Little things like that.

The teledashes you did mostly were in bad positions and kinda predictable. Against someone like zard who can throw out a strong hitbox that just kinda covers him, teledash is a pretty bad approach. Can be used for mixups, but I'd suggest using the first one or two to see how they react against you doing it. Maybe go halfway to him or away from him and just see -- does he shield? Does he throw out a nair? Does he spot dodge? Once you get ahold of any possible habits you can start to use it more effectively. I think this move is often used when it isn't needed, and gets people punished a lot.

Aside from that, just be careful when placing dins sometimes -- especially when recovering. If you don't have the space for it, it'll cost you a stock. Against characters who can go out really far to get to you like zard, kirby, DDD, puff, mewtwo, etc you'll have to be more careful because they can go out while you're trying to throw it then hit you as you're trying to up b (I think it only got you once or twice, but if he was watching for it you could have lost a couple more). Try to figure out how much time you'll have from starting a dins to the upb disappear, and if you'll have enough time between the two to safely place a dins. Hard to do during a match and takes a lot of getting used to after playing against characters and people who punish it hard, and it's one of those things that can turn a match in the wrong direction pretty quickly.



Hope this helps and let me know if anything doesn't make sense or you want me to elaborate some.
 

Angell

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
73
Can I get some tips on my play?

You can find my matches by typing "Deviljho Dan Zelda" into the youtube search bar.

Thank you in advance!
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Here's some more recent videos of me since I see most of mine here are last year from Xanadu.

I have a horrible tendency to be recorded while I'm losing LOL. I got 7th at a new hope and 3rd at the weekly respectively, so I hope you can still use this vids as useful training tools ^.^. Also, there's mk mixed into these vids too, so feel free to skip those parts unless you are learning mk too.

ANH | Stro & ANH | M@V vs. C9 | Mang0 & Nakamaru | PM Doubles Losers Quarters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFJ9mnoHL1w&index=3&list=PLJCuP6Odsy66KyRL8fe0OXxxxeoWZRyEY

MOAL IV | M@V vs. Logan | PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAOeAQag2Vk&list=PLJCuP6Odsy67hFDmbEqadKvPsvi5f1eNS&index=9
MOAL IV | Green Ranger vs. M@V | PM Winners Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b5CNXQ-7RU&list=PLJCuP6Odsy67hFDmbEqadKvPsvi5f1eNS&index=19
MOAL IV | Logan vs. M@V | PM Losers Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwz744wV3bw&list=PLJCuP6Odsy67hFDmbEqadKvPsvi5f1eNS&index=15
 
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Kaeldiar

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
563
Location
MDVAiridian City
Going through and critiquing some of these videos. I'll try to get to everyone, but no promises

Can I get some tips on my play?

You can find my matches by typing "Deviljho Dan Zelda" into the youtube search bar.

Thank you in advance!
I would say that what you do is very good, except that you play predictably. You use f-air and b-air A LOT, especially b-air. I understand it's a good move, but turning your back to your opponent as he comes back from the stage is a dead giveaway as to how you're edgeguarding him. You also don't use Din's very much. It's a tremendously effective move, especially for edgeguarding. Zelda doesn't have very much speed, so what does she do when she gains ground? She either teledashes to chase (which you could do more of) or places Din's to maintain stage control (which you could also do more of). The few times I saw you use Din's, you did a good job of walling them out and forcing a bad approach. Do more of that!

Here's some more recent videos of me since I see most of mine here are last year from Xanadu.

I have a horrible tendency to be recorded while I'm losing LOL. I got 7th at a new hope and 3rd at the weekly respectively, so I hope you can still use this vids as useful training tools ^.^. Also, there's mk mixed into these vids too, so feel free to skip those parts unless you are learning mk too.

ANH | Stro & ANH | M@V vs. C9 | Mang0 & Nakamaru | PM Doubles Losers Quarters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFJ9mnoHL1w&index=3&list=PLJCuP6Odsy66KyRL8fe0OXxxxeoWZRyEY

MOAL IV | M@V vs. Logan | PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAOeAQag2Vk&list=PLJCuP6Odsy67hFDmbEqadKvPsvi5f1eNS&index=9
MOAL IV | Green Ranger vs. M@V | PM Winners Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b5CNXQ-7RU&list=PLJCuP6Odsy67hFDmbEqadKvPsvi5f1eNS&index=19
MOAL IV | Logan vs. M@V | PM Losers Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwz744wV3bw&list=PLJCuP6Odsy67hFDmbEqadKvPsvi5f1eNS&index=15
I watched against GR and against Logan. Game 3 against GR was pretty telling. d-tilt to d-tilt is NEVER a good option, but d-tilt combos well into lots of other things. You started to go pretty aggro at the end there. You need to play a little bit safer. You needed to space better and float around some like a Jigglypuff, rather than go all in. Also, one stronger, well-placed Din's is leagues better than 2 crappy ones on the ground. Directly on the ground is the WORST place to put a Din's because it covers almost no space whatsoever. Don't do it. Ever. Near the ground is fine, but ON the ground is bad. B-air is a good OoS option if they're behind you. I noticed you seemed to have a bit of difficulty with that

You could also try to sweetspot the ledge more. Zelda actually has some decent ledge options (Lightning kick, land canceled Nayru's, etc.), so being on the ledge isn't a bad idea, ESPECIALLY given how bad she lags when coming back on the stage. Sweetspotting is scary, but it just takes practice. Against Logan, you got punished hard for coming back on the stage, rather than going for the ledge
 
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Angell

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
73
I would say that what you do is very good, except that you play predictably. You use f-air and b-air A LOT, especially b-air. I understand it's a good move, but turning your back to your opponent as he comes back from the stage is a dead giveaway as to how you're edgeguarding him. You also don't use Din's very much. It's a tremendously effective move, especially for edgeguarding. Zelda doesn't have very much speed, so what does she do when she gains ground? She either teledashes to chase (which you could do more of) or places Din's to maintain stage control (which you could also do more of). The few times I saw you use Din's, you did a good job of walling them out and forcing a bad approach. Do more of that!
I have a motto about that predictability thing, "if you want to beat someone, play like an idiot!" Most of what I do is intentionally predictable because this yoshi is really slow to read and when he finally gets a sence of what I'm doing he does the same punish for at least one more stock, giving me a huge advantage. Also I turn my back as an edge-gaurd because anything I can do facing my opponent I think I can do better (or equal) facing away. Like this:
Kick: unaffected
Charging a smash: unaffected
Grabbing ledge: easier
Dijn's: unaffected

And threatening a Bair makes most people low. (Those whose character isn't INVINCIBLE until 150, aka recoveries that take thought) but maybe it's just my style of pit leaking into my style of Zelda.
 
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