Zelda Social Thread

[Zerudahime]

no comment.

 

[jtm94]

I just don't want to have to feel dependent on Dins to the point where I can't play her competitively without it.
Nothing is that serious though and life goes on.

 

[otheusrex]

I just don't want to have to feel dependent on Dins to the point where I can't play her competitively without it.
Nothing is that serious though and life goes on.

I think you wouldn't find dins as unhelpful to your preferred playstyle if you were more able to get things rolling with Zelda. It's true that her approach is terrible, and if you're smart and want to win, this means you have to constantly hang back just outside of your opponent's range and wait for an opening. Compared to other projectiles, Dins isn't great for forcing an opening, but it does excel at helping her maintain momentum when she does score a hit. This is probably the reason why none of her throws lead to reliable death combos but are more for giving her space to set up Dins.

Anyways, I'd fully support a Zelda with a little more versatile approach. If it meant a small trade off with her auto combos, that would be fine with me as long as it was easier to get things started in the first place.

 

[Heero Yuy]

I always felt Zelda's learning curve was rather low compared to most other characters, mainly due to the fact that her Dins make up more than half of her overall metagame - including combos and camping. She's a rather easy character to pick up but you'd have to truly unlock her in order to place very well in tourneys.

 

[jtm94]

It really isn't that dins is unhelpful. It is quite helpful and useful, but harassing opponents with projectiles the entire game stops being fun after a while. I find myself doing the same things over, and over, and over again. It gets quite tedious for both sides, my friends would rather just SD sometimes than try to fight through dins when they're at high %. It just isn't fun. The teleport is neat, but she can't act fast enough to someone who reacts and I get hit where I reappear even if I mix it up, the safest use(for me) is to go just behind them and try to pivot grab or dash dance grab them. It's best for recovery and edgehogging.

It's just dins dins dins, hit them away, dins dins dins, grab through, dins dins dins, kick that didn't kill dins dins dins. I'm really starting to want to trade off strong kick for more consistent decent kick and "some" better mobility.

 

[otheusrex]

It really isn't that dins is unhelpful. It is quite helpful and useful, but harassing opponents with projectiles the entire game stops being fun after a while. I find myself doing the same things over, and over, and over again. It gets quite tedious for both sides, my friends would rather just SD sometimes than try to fight through dins when they're at high %. It just isn't fun. The teleport is neat, but she can't act fast enough to someone who reacts and I get hit where I reappear even if I mix it up, the safest use(for me) is to go just behind them and try to pivot grab or dash dance grab them. It's best for recovery and edgehogging.

It's just dins dins dins, hit them away, dins dins dins, grab through, dins dins dins, kick that didn't kill dins dins dins. I'm really starting to want to trade off strong kick for more consistent decent kick and "some" better mobility.

It sounds like we play a very different style of Zelda. The only time I regularly use dins is to tech chase after a nair or a dthrow when I think they're going to techroll away, or to edgegaurd. Only occasionally will I'll set 1 or two dins in the neutral came to aid my approach.

I think a good strategy for learning Dins fire is to learn to play without it first. It's not really going to help you much until you're good enough at punishing mistakes to use this as your sole means of approach. When that happens, you'll understand her moves well enough to be able to capitalize on the extra hitbox on the battlefield. For when you are ready to use dins, however, here are a few observations I've made for Din's placements. I hope some other people will add to this list, too:

1) A Dins mine behind the opponent helps you extend combos. Moves like nair, dthrow, low %kicks, higher % LC nayrus, that normally send the opponent too far away for a followup either will send the opponent directly into the mine and back towards you in hitstun, or make the opponent want to DI towards you to avoid the mines. This particularly rewarding placement, however, comes at the cost of being difficult to set up safely as it requires you to stay longer in the Dins animation, leaving you open. The easiest way I get this placement, is to :

2) Dins mine between you and your opponent to protect yourself from rush downs. Not only does this give you some time, but it allows you to observe how they'll try to deal with Din's mines. Do they run stupidly into it in an aggressive attempt to punish you? Do they try to clank the mines? Do they weave around it? Do they wait patiently and shield the explosion? Do they retreat? All of these can be punished, sometimes in more than one way, but only if you predict them. Thankfully, there isn't much risk to placing one in between you and your opponent so long as you're outside their punish range.

That's all i feel like typing for now, lol. Again, I hope other people will contribute some of these

 

[Sir Skaro]

How do you do the trick where you do a "super" double jump using Zelda's neutral B? I accidentally did it with Kirby and I can't replicate it

 

[PrincessAzula]

How do you do the trick where you do a "super" double jump using Zelda's neutral B? I accidentally did it with Kirby and I can't replicate it

When you're in hitstun you immediately jump and then hit B. You have to get the timing just right. Most people call it the Love Jump. It's pretty useful in escaping some combos.

 

[Sir Skaro]

Ooooh alright. That makes sense. Thank you!

 

[jtm94]

I just hate when someone learns the matchup after a while and I have to super drag out matches to win.
I'm still repping her for now though.

 

[otheusrex]

I know what you mean jtm. When people learn to be careful with zelda, you kinda have to run away and bait them until they crack and do something rash

 

[Heero Yuy]

A few days past and I realize my Sheik kinda sucks. My Fox however is amazing and he makes a great secondary, so my stance right now is to keep Zelda as my main. Hoping I can stay true to my representation of the Hyrule Princess for a long time.

 

[Arcalyth]

I can't think of any reason NOT to learn Sheik if you're a Zelda player

 

[Heero Yuy]

I'll still keep her handy. I just won't main her.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I definately agree that Ivy has gotten good, and she certainly seems like a better camping character than Zelda.

But Zelda's main use wasn't exactly to camp, was it...

#Passive-AggressiveGlass-Cannon

Ivy seems to have a scary good match-up against Zelda. Also, I can't seem to L-cancel Nayru's Love, tips?

 

[jtm94]

Land cancel Nayru's you mean?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

So I tried out some new tactics today against my friend's Link and I just can't crack him.
I'd like to think I'm not terrible, but not amazing by any means, but I struggle to get him below 2 stock.
He plays a few other characters, but I can't do anything to Link. Naryu's Love is a terrible option against projectiles because he applies pressure on purpose so he can capitalize on the end frames of it. I tried land cancelling it, but it is still too slow he hits me before the move is even over. So I use Love as a way to punish him for getting too close, but not close enough for me to grab or kick him in time.

As for Din's, I only use it when I manage to get him off the stage and capitalize from there, that's pretty much how I KO, but he's pretty good at recovering through a wall of Din's Fire.

He also does some kind of grab combo, and I get thrown, then while in hitstun he hits me with Link's dair and I get KOd at like 57%....

My matchups against other characters seem pretty good though, never really faced anyone else that is so overwhelmingly troublesome. I've faced people who have beaten my friend's Link and won. I think he's just gotten used to dealing with my ordinary tactics.

Have you tried her telegame? I works extremely well on "campers." It makes them not so happy. I agree that the Link matchup is bad for her, but not terribly if you use all her options.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Land cancel Nayru's you mean?

What? You don't L cancel it? Explain.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Good CPU to play against; Level 5 or up Samus, very human-like. It'll camp, mix up recovery and catch you off guard a lot of the time. It's only problem is using dash-attack to approach.

 

[hitbox]

i wanna try shielda ive been playing zelda for awhile and i want to try using the whole character but i dont know whens best for zelda or whens best for shiek any thoughts?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

i wanna try shielda ive been playing zelda for awhile and i want to try using the whole character but i dont know whens best for zelda or whens best for shiek any thoughts?

Depends on the character you're fighting. Usually what I do is I start as Zelda and take off their first stock. Then, while they're respawning, and considering how to beat my Zelda, I switch so I can come in and combo for some damage and then run and keep my high-damage self alive. When I lose that stock I use the two second invulnerability to transform to Zelda.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I think you wouldn't find dins as unhelpful to your preferred playstyle if you were more able to get things rolling with Zelda. It's true that her approach is terrible, and if you're smart and want to win, this means you have to constantly hang back just outside of your opponent's range and wait for an opening. Compared to other projectiles, Dins isn't great for forcing an opening, but it does excel at helping her maintain momentum when she does score a hit. This is probably the reason why none of her throws lead to reliable death combos but are more for giving her space to set up Dins.

Anyways, I'd fully support a Zelda with a little more versatile approach. If it meant a small trade off with her auto combos, that would be fine with me as long as it was easier to get things started in the first place.

One word: telegame.

 

[otheusrex]

What? You don't L cancel it? Explain.

While in the air and performing nayru's love, if you land anytime after the attack frames have finished, then you can almost immediately interrupt the ending lag of nayru's love with the start up of your next move. This is called a Land Cancel because you have to land during the move in order to get the cancel effect.

Thus, you don't L-cancel nayru's love, the input to 'cancel' it is actually just the next move you want to perform, which can be anything.

It isn't hard once you learn the timing, but it can be tricky at first because if you land too soon during the move, then it won't land cancel.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Yeah you can't L-cancel special moves. Luckily Nayru's Love has that little gimmick that works as an early auto-cancel.

To anybody who says Zelda has a bad approach - TELEPORT! I don't know why we don't put enough emphasis on it. It doesn't get predictable easily because of all the mixups and mind games you can do after WL-cancelling an UpB. Combine that with some Dins and you'll really hurt your opponent's neutral game. 4-stocked my friend's Link yesterday by just keeping him confused.

 

[Sai_]

She has long range... she owns me with Roy. I really hate her neutral B cause it lasts so damn long; it's practically the best edgeguard maneuver if you really don't want to jump of the stage and kill your opponent. Her attacks are also incredibly strong (13% on me JUST from her dash attack, which is extremely quick). Her neutral attack on the ground can do some hefty damage; this combined with a back throw guarantees a kill with heavy character. It's just so frustrating keep a specific distance with her so I can attack with Roy. One day, I will learn every single move she has and use it against her and pull off a sick combo with Roy on her. /rant

 

[Arcalyth]

i wanna try shielda ive been playing zelda for awhile and i want to try using the whole character but i dont know whens best for zelda or whens best for shiek any thoughts?

Example situations where I'll specifically use Sheik over Zelda:
- I'm at high percent and liable to be killed off the top of the stage, so I take advantage of Sheik's higher fall speed and better mobility to avoid getting hit/killed
- I find myself pushed to the ledge and wish to use Sheik's better ledge game
- Sometimes for edgeguarding though I believe Zelda can edgeguard better than Sheik
- Knowledge of a percent-specific chaingrab on my opponent (I'll often use Zelda to get just enough hits to get my opponent into tech chase or chain-grab percent with Sheik)
- My opponent has 0% and I have a full load of needles stored (you can store needles and Transform and still keep your needles)

Example situations where I'll use Zelda over Sheik:
- My opponent is at high percent, especially too high for a clean kill as Sheik; I get free Din's combos for days and a kill throw
- I'm offstage and want to take advantage of Zelda's better recovery
- My opponent is mindless or is playing unsafe rushdown (Zelda EXCELS in these situations because you can potentially 0-death them every time they approach)
- When I need to increase my swag level/my opponent's salt level (legit strats trust me)
- Reflector

There aren't too many matchups where I specifically choose one over the other at the CSS. I just go with whoever seems more fun at the time or who I've been playing better with that day. Sometimes I mindgame on the CSS and make Transform my first move though lol, because people are gonna go in with a game plan to beat your character

 

[Sai_]

Is it me or does she have some invincibility with her neutral B?

 

[BJN39]

She does have invincibilty at the start of Nayru. On frames 4-11 I believe, might be 4-12 I haven't looked at the data in a while.

But yes, she does.

 

[the_irish_dude]

**** squirtle. That is all lol

 

[BJN39]

I breathe a sigh of relief today.

http://www.smashbros.com/sp/us/characters/zelda.html

Zelda lives another day... :D

 

[Heero Yuy]

**** squirtle. That is all lol

And Peach. The princess who wants to conquer Hyrule with her toads, turnips, and Dsmashes... :/

 

[the_irish_dude]

lol i actually havent had a huge issue with peach. shes a tough out but i dont feel at a loss whenever i play one.... squirtle and other pint size characters give me a huge anger issue when i play them. i usually switch to ICs when i play a squirtle. im more confident with them when all the squirtle does is attack me in his shell.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Oh, derp. For some reason, in my mind when I heard land cancel, I replaced it with L-cancel (I'm not slow sometimes though it seems that way)
I'll practice it, I've been trying to master almost everything about Zelda, and I WILL persevere!

While in the air and performing nayru's love, if you land anytime after the attack frames have finished, then you can almost immediately interrupt the ending lag of nayru's love with the start up of your next move. This is called a Land Cancel because you have to land during the move in order to get the cancel effect.

Thus, you don't L-cancel nayru's love, the input to 'cancel' it is actually just the next move you want to perform, which can be anything.

It isn't hard once you learn the timing, but it can be tricky at first because if you land too soon during the move, then it won't land cancel.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Hi everyone, new zelda main on the scene. I've been reading all of your posts in regards to Zelda for a little while but just recently made an account. I've met (talked) with Zhime a little bit over on dabessdi, and would love to meet the rest of you. Hope you all are having a great holiday!

 

[DarkStarStorm]

What did Zhime have to say?
I'm DS by the way, and I aspire to be better than fantastic. (And corny introductions are apparently my specialty)

Hi everyone, new zelda main on the scene. I've been reading all of your posts in regards to Zelda for a little while but just recently made an account. I've met (talked) with Zhime a little bit over on dabessdi, and would love to meet the rest of you. Hope you all are having a great holiday!

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Sorry for the double post. I meant to send my original message as a reply.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

What did Zhime have to say?
I'm DS by the way, and I aspire to be better than fantastic. (And corny introductions are apparently my specialty)

Nice to meet you Nothing wrong with a little bit of corny comments for some amusement.

I entered my first tournament not too long ago and made friends with a guy there who plays a nice ZSS. He mentioned Zhime as someone he had seen videos of online that I might want to look up. So I found some of the videos and by chance happened to run into Zhime when I clicked on a link that took me to the dabessdi chat. I basically introduced myself, gave him a little background, and told him how I heard about him. He was really nice, and offered to answer any questions I might have. I have been happy to take him up on it. lol

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Nice to meet you Nothing wrong with a little bit of corny comments for some amusement.

I entered my first tournament not too long ago and made friends with a guy there who plays a nice ZSS. He mentioned Zhime as someone he had seen videos of online that I might want to look up. So I found some of the videos and by chance happened to run into Zhime when I clicked on a link that took me to the dabessdi chat. I basically introduced myself, gave him a little background, and told him how I heard about him. He was really nice, and offered to answer any questions I might have. I have been happy to take him up on it. lol

How long have you been playing PM/how good are you?

 

[WhiteLightnin]

How long have you been playing PM/how good are you?

Well I first encountered PM at an anime convention I went to so that would be November 16. It took me a little bit of time to get set up for it after that. I've started getting involved in a local scene here, and people have been pretty impressed so far mentioning they can't wait to see my continued growth. We're definitely not a well known scene here in NM (as far as I know), but we're hoping to change that very soon coming this February. I've been doing a lot of reading up on any advanced techniques for PM I can find (general and Zelda specific) and am currently in the process of solidly implementing them. I have been playing Smash since its 64 days, but honestly I don't really have that much I can compare myself to so it's hard for me to answer your second question. lol Sorry for such a long-winded response.

 

[BJN39]

Hi Whitelightnin, it's always nice to see another player interested in Zelda. ^ ^

What advanced techniques do you know about already? Because I'd love to tell you any techs you don't already know.

EDIT; oh yeah, I noticed a thread in the marth boards asking about the Zelda MU if any of you wanna go give some input.