Social Zelda Social - Still the queen of Smash...and maybe queen of low tier for a decade, too. Shall we make it two?

[Daidarapochi]

What's good queens?

Nair and U-smash feel like early Smash 4 levels of disconnecting tbh. Like, they had a patch specifically fixing those two moves dropping people and then they just...forget again. Haven't messed with Samus much so wondering if her Usmash is also jank again.

I'm 80% sure that U-air 'feeling' weird is sound/hitstun stuff, and not anything actually mechanical.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

getting lit up online is what's happening...so not so good here

 

[Eremitaviola]

I keep accidentally inputting Fair instead of Uair because I'm not that used anymore to switching from A to C-stick and back but when I don't **** that up Up air is pretty good as a kill move. It just feels like the explosion is slightly bigger than the hitbox. But I can't really tell you exactly what it is otherwise. But she still feels way better and is still the only one that feels natural to play. The lightning kicks feel way better so that's good. Also I can actually hit someone with Din wich is great, especially against Fox if he's recovering from the sides so I don't have to risk him reflecting the Phantom

 

[EODM07]

So I've been playing Pichu, and they feel so much fun to play!

I might actually end up going Lucina/Pichu as my characters. I'll call it...

"The Future Generation" or "The Next Generation".

Also, I need to find out whether Doctor Mario can true combo D-Throw > DAir.

And I've been finding Pichu combos now.

Found out they can do DTilt>UTilt>USmash. UTilt>UAir>UAir/NAir and even D-Throw>Reverse UAir>UAir. Pichu feels so great man.

And Lucina feels the same as she did. I'm greatful for that, she still has D-Throw>BAir/UAir. So I'm all set. :V

I'm surprised Leffsen didn't say "what does zelda do in this game besides be a complete joke?"

Coney and the guys at VGBC were more negative on Shulk from what I saw. They were just talking trash about him. Felt like they didn't even care about Monado Boy and wanted to move on.

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

 

[~The Koopa King~]

i swear most of the time i try playing zelda i can barely hit anyone with her......such is the struggle

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

It looks like Ultimate is pretty good from what I’ve seen. I hope this game will be a little more competitively successful than Smash 4, which seems likely.
Since I have never played the Persona games, seeing everyone talk about Joker being in Ultimate had thrown me for a loop for a longer time than I’d like to admit.

Anyways, happy smashing to all!

 

[Ffamran]

BJN39 , is this similar to what you've been experiencing with Zelda's Nair in regards to connection issues?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also, apparently, this is a thing.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[McKnightlíght]

1. Nayru's Vortex is back. It's not as good as before but Ricky and I confirmed it last night.

2. I motion to name Zelda's Down B "Rotisserie Knight" because you set it and forget it.

 

[Lorde]

Which non-Zelda characters have you gorls been playing? I plan on maining Pokémon Trainer so i’ve been playing a lot of them, but I’ve also really been enjoying Ridley and Incineroar. I was excited to play Isabelle, but she feels really weird and i don’t really understand how the fishing rod works yet. bayo feels so weird now


I also saw on twitter that Incineroar’s bthrow has (supposedly) usurped Ness’ as the strongest in the game lol

 

[TumblrFamous]

I've been using Shulk, Daisy, and Lucas apart from Zelda. I'm also dabbling in King K. Rool, Richter, and PT.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

Hope I'm not the only one using the default joycons....(either in handheld or attached to the controller thingy...oy)

i know the pro or gamecube is far better but i couldn't really justify spending that much money right now although I'm thinking that might hinder my abilities

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Got to be impressed with Din's Fire here, it's become very reliable gimping and pressuring projectile this time around. I've net like 3 KOs so far in online with it.

Feels good man.

 

[Princess Toady]

So........ Our princess is still pretty much trash. I'm still not sure how you are supposed to approach anyone with Zelda (oh wait, you don't, you just have to wait for something to happen! )

Nothing really new to see. I'm honestly not seeing her making Mid-Tier. And yeah I know, she has her new and improved Phantom, but it still isn't anything that can help you with your approaches. Like, you just have to spot dodge or jump over it or wait, even better... Stay outside of its range! Boom, problem solved. It's not like Zelda is fast enough to capitalize on it either.

She's still going to struggle against fast characters, ranged characters and sword characters. Maybe she feels 'better', but after three games of her being absolute trash, I'm not holding my breath.

At least she's still a gawdess in the aesthetics department.

What are you gorls first impressions of Zelda?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

What are you gorls first impressions of Zelda?

I want to say my impressions, but people already saying Zelda's already trash with about decade and more experience is making me want to retract anything positive out of sounding like a your average sweet summer child.

But at least I can say that do enjoy my new Phantom... while people could jump over it and stuff, it's still less commitment-based than it was in 4, and can be still used to read reactions from your opponents or do small forms of approach closer, especially with the 5 forms of attacks that you can now gauge before unleashing - especially with how you can also make it go off manually via same button input after it stays stationary during full charge. I feel like Zelda's advantage state is at least gonna be strong when she gets it going with it among other things...

I hope people aren't going to suddenly sleep on it after dismissing it being apparently not the kind of game-changer to Zelda's kit just because her frame data looks bit unchanged, or had some stuff retooled (so has many other characters).

Besides, easy-to-input Short-Hopped Lightning Kicks are dope.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

my thoughts are....she feels awkward granted i never really played zelda much before but it feels like catching anyone with her moves in this game seems to be close to impossible

i have no idea why she's giving me such a problem to handle

 

[Rickster]

Am I truly the only Zelda here who thinks positively of her? The Phantom is amazing to me, and it feels like it melds perfectly with the rest of her kit and fixes many of her old problems

 

[Rion]

Let me be the one to inject a little positive outlook in here with this gif from a Zelda discord I joined recently:

https://imgur.com/qfsVfpu

Utilt is clean as heck. Also that DEEP Phantom gimp after running across the stage was definitely very good.

Edit Bonus:

https://www.facebook.com/TuxKick/videos/316266065890038/?t=0

Yeah, Utilt is looking pretty great. Also Dtilt > Fair looking pretty clean too.

(Oops! Double post, my bad).

 

[Aussie1024]

Am I truly the only Zelda here who thinks positively of her? The Phantom is amazing to me, and it feels like it melds perfectly with the rest of her kit and fixes many of her old problems

Lol you're not alone there my friend. I've been seeing the problems with her that many have been talking about on this forum, but it's still a huge blast playing as her. I'm still trying to figure out how to use Phantom effectively, but Din's Fire is so great. It's improved maneuverability makes all the difference. Her short-hop aerials are amazing, specifically fair and Bair. Still trying to get the hang of using Nair and U-air with that, but overall it's great.

She's not the best, but she feels more fluid and mobile (in terms of her rolls and dashing - not her actual speed) than in Sm4sh. She's got better tools she can use to her advantage, especially against heavier characters. I'm having good success with her in battles so far, and overall feeling pretty positive. Not overly, but safely positive (if I could put it that way).

Let me be the one to inject a little positive outlook in here with this gif from a Zelda discord I joined recently:

https://imgur.com/qfsVfpu

Utilt is clean as heck. Also that DEEP Phantom gimp after running across the stage was definitely very good.

Yo, that is a sick combo! I need to mess around with her tilts and see what I can do with them

 

[BJN39]

It’s definitely realistic to say she prolly isn’t making top/high tier this time off what we can see so far. Based off surface data she’s largely unchanged for a lot of moves, and so we can work off that information partly when knowing what we can do...WHICH MEANS NOT MUCH secretkpop. That said I’m feeling confident she can do more than before.

I think I’m gonna struggle to adapt, but she really did seem to get nice defensive buffs and works well be trying not to approach if ever possible. She still can’t approach well, just, like, at all. If she struggles with the same stuff (speedies and swordies) then she does, but we may have a few new things to develop a counterplan now, at least!

Finger Bang ala SSB4 just doesn’t feel like it works well now but as mentioned the UAir has so little Landing lag that trying it every time you Dthrow has less risk and can force the opponent into the air. Also LK seems to be more of a thing. I wanna lab it more but I hear nice things about Uthrow, so maybe if you wanna get the hoohaa we should be trying that now? Maybe I’ll end up making a thread

Oop don’t forget that or jumpsquat length as halved basically, so any frame advantage into an aerial from Throw should theoretically be better.

Oddly, her throws all have the same endlag, and up/down Throw have the same angles, so you’d think they should work just the same. There might be something like KB values tampering with Dthrow, OR it’s just placebo and we (mostly me) need to get good lmao.

 

[Eremitaviola]

Ok so I played a bunch of online matches and I feel like I actually did decently, tough I'm sure I'm nowhere close to the level of you guys. The Phantom is super useful against a lot of opponents who don't have projectiles and you don't want getting close too soon, and most of those characters aren't fast enough to jump over it. The real problem is that they let me charge it way too often so sometimes I forget I can release it earlier. The trows feel kinda meh actually, but at higher percents Ftrow doesn't seem that bad. I'm probably still using it way too much but Nayru helps a ton in some matches, It's a shame it doesn't really help landing but if the stage is wide enough I can still just say F it and airdodge+FW to the other side in four seconds top. I thankfully don't SD as much as I expected with FW but that makes when it happens hurt even more. I couldn't really do any combos but I should probably try to Nair more often when trying to hit airborne opponents. It's just that Zelda's kinda slow in the air and Nair feels even slower so I'm not sure how am I supposed to hit anyone. But Ftrow to dash while only working at lower percents seems pretty good, tough I could only really try it once on a poor Squirtle. Also I'm absolutely certain I'm still not that good because I fought another Zelda and got obliterated. It was fun tough. Also I found out the hard way that Elfire lasts a lot. Because it was probably the reason I lost a match against a Robin. Seriously we were both at like one hit from winning. It felt good tough. There were some matches were I would just dodge everything and counter no problem, and others were I could barely land any hits, and I know it was all me. Sometimes it would even be the same match where I would start good then can't believe I'm winning and lose all stocks in a row. Does anyone else ever feel like that or am I just dodging anything by luck? Also yeah I say dodge a lot because I just keep going for a dodge instead of shield. Why

 

[Codebox]

Lol you're not alone there my friend. I've been seeing the problems with her that many have been talking about on this forum, but it's still a huge blast playing as her. I'm still trying to figure out how to use Phantom effectively, but Din's Fire is so great. It's improved maneuverability makes all the difference. Her short-hop aerials are amazing, specifically fair and Bair. Still trying to get the hang of using Nair and U-air with that, but overall it's great.

She's not the best, but she feels more fluid and mobile (in terms of her rolls and dashing - not her actual speed) than in Sm4sh. She's got better tools she can use to her advantage, especially against heavier characters. I'm having good success with her in battles so far, and overall feeling pretty positive. Not overly, but safely positive (if I could put it that way).



Yo, that is a sick combo! I need to mess around with her tilts and see what I can do with them

You think her dashing might be a priority in her movement? It seems to actually be faster than her movement speed, so at least she has a decent option to be mobile. Zelda was never designed to be fast to speedy/swordies are always going to be a bane, but I think she'll excel against slower/heavy characters more.

Does anyone know how Nayru's compares to previous iterations? Does it not halting momentum help in anyway? And how are frames when trying to escape out of moves?

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Well, amidst the Zelda debate I can’t contribute to I have finished Korra Book 2 and oh gorl, there’s a lot to unpack.

Spoiler: Legend Of Korra Book 2

Well, um this season was insane. Not in terms of quality unfortunately. To give the TL;DR, Book 2 is bad, but not horrible.

To start with the bad:
The plot takes itself on a wild ride. It starts walking around the shark, and then flys over it for the last few episodes.
The civil war idea was a fantastic idea in my opinion. A larger scale (and better done) version of The Great Divide. Unfortunately the plot soon develops into a bizzare mixture of the first Avatar, Bolin’s movie made by the comic villain of the season and Mako being a detective doing detective things. I liked the movie for it’s intentional cliches, but I didn’t care much for the rest. The plot climax of Unalaq and Vaatu becoming giant demon man was way too weird to take seriously. The monster looked like he belonged in Bolin’s movie, not the actual plot.
Funnily enough, the general plot was the only thing I disliked. Everything else was actually decent.

What was good: I know it’s a small thing, but Meelo became much better in this season. He was acting like an immature kid, not a farting machine.
One of the best things in the season was the Tenzin family hanging out. I loved watching Meelo learn to train Lemurs and Jinora working with Korra in the sprit world. I enjoyed the Kya-Tenzin-Bumi quest. Did a lot for character development. Iroh’s cameo was so nice to see. I actually didn’t think he’d be in this show. Him talking to child Korra was super pleasant.
The characterization improved. Mako has a personality now. Bolin became a really likable character in this season. Asami... actually didn’t change much.

The best thing in this season has no contest.
Varrick. Oh I love Varrick. He was a hilarious eccentric businessman before, but he became even more fun during his short stint as a villain. Brilliant character, don’t think I need to elaborate if you’ve seen the show. He escape from prison makes me hope he’ll appear in Book 3.

Anyway, Legend Of Korra gets a 6/10 for me.

 

[Aussie1024]

You think her dashing might be a priority in her movement? It seems to actually be faster than her movement speed, so at least she has a decent option to be mobile. Zelda was never designed to be fast to speedy/swordies are always going to be a bane, but I think she'll excel against slower/heavy characters more.

Yeah I do. Her dashes keep opponents on their heels, at least whenever I do it. I found it to be a useful too on more than one occasion. When I get back on I'm gonna try out this mechanic a little more and probably give a short analysis on it.

 

[Codebox]

That's nice to know her dash is at least good. I think it could make up for her slow speed, something she didn't really have before. Alright can't wait to see a video on it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead.

 

[Rickster]

The new input buffer system helps with some of her tighter combos btw. You can hold jump during Dthrow and she'll automatically jump as soon as possible, so we can focus more on the launch angle for kicks and stuff instead of frame perfect jumping

 

[Ffamran]

DMC5's soundtrack is freaking awesome. The boss theme for Goliath was uploaded and the first part reminds me of the instrumental parts of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance's boss themes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpjZmuJ-Thk.

Nico's van theme is relaxing and comfy. It makes you feel like you're in a diner enjoying a hearty meal or watching cars and people go by outside on maybe a rainy day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U21ckPd6PtY. The tracks for Redgrave City people said reminded them of DMC1, DMC2, and games like Resident Evil and Silent Hill where it had an eerie feel to them. DMC1 had more horror elements which makes sense since it was essentially a prototype of Resident Evil 4 that was turned into a different game of its own. Later games didn't have that, especially DMC3 and DMC4 which gave off more of an action game feel. DMC3 at least took you to some hellish places, but DMC4 was basically set in the real, mortal world. I've said it before, but I can't wait for the game to be released to hear the rest of the tracks in the game.

Speaking of music, anyone catch the opening movie for Kingdom Hearts III that was uploaded today? It features a collaboration song between Hikaru Utada and Skrillex titled "Face My Fears". It's still sinking in that KHIII is going to be out next month.

 

[Downshift]

So I played a bunch of Zelda dittos with a friend tonite. He's really good with her and we played a good 10 matches with him winning 6 of them. He was a lot better at sniping with Farore and landing SH LK's. Good at landing Ftilt, connecting on Dthrows, all the techs.
Then I switch to another main and straight up obliterate him. 3 stocked him twice in a row with Samus.

Hopefully it's just because of my familiarity with Zelda and his unfamiliarity with Samus... but who doesn't know the Samus matchup after 19 years? lol

I really hope this isn't a sign that Zelda still hasn't surpassed Low Tier... :/

 

[EODM07]

Time to make you Zelda mains proud by announcing this.

A Zelda online made DarkSydePhil (DSP) ragequit a match.

Anyway, how's it going everyone?

Sorry, no quirky comment or theme to greet this time. FeelsBadMan

So I've been unlocking some more characters, lost to Bowser Jr. sadly, I think after I unlock him; the last one is Palutena right? Since I've already unlocked Doc through World of Light. I guess I'm not technically done yet, since I still gotta unlock Mii Brawler. I'd create a Mii, but I want the OG Mii Brawler through World of Light.

Also, I've been wondering; how good is Palutena in Ultimate? I'm curious due to me thinking how much I was struggling with Pichu due to how light they are. I'm still sticking with Lucina, but curious on how good Palu is.

I did give Zelda a small try, but she felt a bit more floaty then she used to. Is that just me?

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

 

[Oh Snap]

Hey sisters. Do we have a discord chat?

 

[BJN39]

Hey sisters. Do we have a discord chat?

Prolly not one for Ultimate unless the S4 one just adopted that or smthn.

I know there was a pretty expansive invite-only one for s4 tho. Despite being part of the “Discord is evil lol” troupe, I somehow had access to it tho

 

[Oh Snap]

Ah okay, thanks!

 

[Ffamran]

Remember that live action Sonic the Hedgehog film they were making? Well, Sonic looks like a thing, literally.

Spoiler: A very blue hedgehog

On less disturbing news, Geralt strikes again as he's going to appear in Monster Hunter: World as part of a collaboration event: http://www.siliconera.com/2018/12/1...coming-to-monster-hunter-world-in-early-2019/. At this rate, Geralt might even appear in the Ultimate. I swear if that happens.

Also, has anyone played the Panzer Dragoon games? Apparently the first two games are getting remakes: https://gematsu.com/2018/12/forever...goon-remake-and-panzer-dragoon-ii-zwei-remake.

As for FEH shenanigans, Eir has a very stupid map ready animation. She's like a sadder Felicia or dorkier Flora to me. Also, Alm can make great use of Mystic Boost if you choose to inherit that from her which you probably shouldn't unless you summoned a copy of her.

Spoiler: The 308th to 309th Summons

Spoiler: The 308th's stats

4* Eirika #1: +HP, -Spd.

4* Gordin: +Res, -Atk.

4* Lilina: +Spd, -Res.

3* M!Robin: +Atk, -HP.

3* adult Tiki: +Res, -Spd.

Spoiler: The 309th's stats

4* Athena: +Atk, -Res. Please give this woman a new weapon. I have so many of her it's not even funny anymore.

3* Eirika #2: +Res, -HP.

4* Mae: +Res, -Def.

4* Maria: +Def, -Res.

4* Soleil: +Atk, -Def.

 

[Daidarapochi]

A little tired of everyone showing off strings and 'combos' on Veritable Combo Food K. Rool. I wanna see some middle weights get tossed around by the Queen.

Fought a pretty decent Richter quite a bit today. The matchup is...interesting. If he's offstage he's very easy to gimp or snipe with Din's, but onstage is a lot of baiting and footsies with Phantom and Nayru. Actually enjoyed it. If he smacks Phantom with an F-smash it SUPER extends the time the hitbox is active. Got up off of ledge like a full second after it hit the Phantom and got a face full of whip.

 

[Deleted member]

Din's is a mean as **** Oki tool, as is Farore.

Still getting used to her, as I haven't played her since PM. I think she's really solid tbh. High-Mid for sure. Don't play her as a Rushdown, she's a Zoner. Your focus should be absolute stage control and harassment, into heavy punishes.

On that note, any tips on Edge canceling? I never played her in 4, so I never practiced ECing her recovery frames on UpB, but I've been labbing that out, and while I can do it, I can't do it consistently enough for it to be reliable. Did her UpB get changed from 4? Was it always forced to travel a minimum distance even when aimed at the ground?

 

[EODM07]

Guys. Thoughts on Pichu?

Because VoiD's Pichu is looking very clean af. I'm amazed he's a Pichu main. Hope to see him do well with Pichu in future tournaments!

I've made some progress with Pichu in GSP. I've now reached 600k, but I guess because of how many people have the game, the GSP requirements to reach Elite Smash increases. I'll guess I'll need to reach either 800k or maybe a million. Oh well.

I will need to work on my Lucina though, since I'm still going to play Lucina & Pichu.

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

 

[Katy Parry]

Anyone who is using Phantom in neutral is using it wrong imo. Phantom is primarily used best to force them to do *something* you can punish.

Smart players will see you charge and shield or jump over it, yes.

You use it during advantage. For example, someone runs in on you with a dash attack and you shield it. You downsmash to punish, and instead of chasing them, you charge the Phantom. You can use it to tech chase, punish them trying to punish you after they get up, or if they roll back you have a free Din's fire.

Phantom allows Zelda to control space, and you cannot control space in a smart fashion if you're not already at an advantage. So, what I've been doing at low percents is:

Fsmash > Charge Phantom
Jab > down smash > charge phantom
Grab > Down throw > b turn charge phantom > overhead slash.

The overhead Slash is truly the best one, because the hitbox covers a lot of punish attempts. Its extremely fast too for what it does. If you charge too much, Phantom level 5 will whiff, or you'll be hit while your Phantom is on standby.

I also believe a lot of you aren't using the fully charged phantom to your advantage. Something I've been finding a lot of success with is charging a standby phantom and immediately running away or towards them, then immediately detonating it. What this does is it makes your "approach or run away safe.

So in theory:

Charge Phantom fully > dash > detonate phantom > roll cancel dash grab

What this can do is punish an early jumper trying to dodge it.

Also, you want lots of bturn phantoms. Jump away, b turn phantom, and you're charging and moving away as they're coming at you, giving you enough space to punish them.

Or, you can start tricking people by charging the phantom the opposite way out of a dash, or for edgeguarding. I've punish several Ike's for recovering onto stage with their side b by running to ledge and charging the phantom the opposite way and then pressuring them.

Nayrus love is seriously a get out of jail for free card, up B out of shield is still god like.

One more thing I've used is charging a phantom and then teleporting in place. They'll jump over the phantom and if they do, and try to punish you, you're punishing them with a kill move.

Zelda is incredibly tricky and still requires a high skill level. She is definitely a high tier character. There's going to be a huge skill gap between good Zelda and bad Zelda's now, due to the mechanics and flow/pace. Zelda still has to be played super safe. We're not inkling, we can't just throw out attacks and get out of Dodge for free. Our moves are powerful but risky. Keep space from your opponent. Don't just go nuts on approaching and attacking. Shield grab, Nayrus.

 

[R.O.B.B.E.D]

I love Zelda in this. I've played her so much since Melee so when I play her the controller feels like an extension of my body. I do twice as much with half the work as anyone else I play as.

 

[Ffamran]

Apparently Ultimate is about to get another patch. I'm guessing it will address mainly bugs since quite a few were found even before the game was officially out like the Lylat Cruise bug where you could get launched through the stage or this thing with Mr. Game & Watch.

TWO gnw glitches were found within a few hours

first found by @ThinkyKing - bucket on exactly frame 18 of dash gives full run velocity with free movement, skips startup

second found by @Nezergy - landing on exactly frame 8 of uair on certain slants causes the wind to go to 0, 0 pic.twitter.com/lWjPRActOn

— Mickey (@houseoffastfood) December 11, 2018

With the complaints of the online matchmaking system and online in general, I could see them trying to address that as well. Otherwise, I don't expect any character changes, but who knows. 1.0.4 was an early patch for Smash 4 and it changed a bunch of things for the characters.

As for FEH nonsense, the free ticket summon netted me my final Clair merge who was +Res, -Atk. Also, a freebie +HP, -Atk 4* Stahl from Ike and Soren's BHB banner.

Spoiler: My, my...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Zelda is bad but at least she's cute and incredibly happy, good for her. I don't even think she's "bad" tbh but everyone else got a tonne of buffs if you know what I mean