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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

|ven|

ᵔᴥᵔ かわいい ᵔᴥᵔ
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For me it's actually entirely the other way around. Knowing when a MU is bad for your character is how you play accordingly, knowing your characters disadvantages and what you have to be aware of from the other character.

Don't think the same psychology works for everyone else, please. Optimism can only go so long.
It's not even optimism. Olimar is an easy match up.
Olimar's throws are actually bad at killing, his only kill throw is Blue Pikmin U-throw, which still doesn't even kill as early as R.O.B.'s.
Like he said only, his blue pikmin kills with grab. So of course he's going to rely on his smashes more than his grabs. I'm aware other moves kill but, we kinda have to be in the air for it to be executed.
 

Lorde

Let 'em talk
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@ Lorde Lorde Here it is

I thought this was just a Brazilian site but I saw some English reviews in the site so I guess it really is worldwide. The prices are a bit higher though, but Greninja and Jiggs are still at the lowest price.
Thanks a ton. I might have given up on getting these two without this. Just to make sure, the prices are in yen, right?
 

Fernosaur

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It's not even optimism. Olimar is an easy match up.


Like he said only, his blue pikmin kills with grab. So of course he's going to rely on his smashes more than his grabs. I'm aware other moves kill but, we kinda have to be in the air for it to be executed.
A'igh! I'll let you be.
Hey. Hey. I resent that.
Oh come on, you know it to be true, baby.
 

Macchiato

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Making MU opinions based purely on general bad habits of players that use a certain character isn't how you make actual MU scores, though :'D.

But you know, I digress. I'll let you keep those thoughts~
You're assuming Olimar is only going to be using Smashes all the time, and also assuming that Zelda's reflector is good, which it isn't. It's actually one of the worst reflectors, probly only second to Falco :'D. Olimar destroys Zelda in the air pretty bad, he's tiny, has pretty good air-speed, and he can just bait Nayru's and capitalize on its massive end-lag for a kill. Not to mention he has a very easy time grabbing Zelda because lawl Zelda, and he's got some pretty powerful kill throws. He doesn't need to rely on Smashes to win against her.
I also think she wins now. I've played many olimars from our crew and it's really true. We play it too much like brawl and respect him. We shouldn't he's not much of a threat. Once we get close he's very limited. Also when your mid range they ALWAYS Fsmash because that's they're best option so we Nayrus love. Also we can snipe him with farores wind becuz lol projecttiles.
 

Cenizas

The Zelda We Need, But Not the One We Deserve
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You also have to realize that the threat of Farore's makes Olimar commit to his mid-long range game against us than quite a lot of other characters as well. I'd have to see our frame data against Olimar's, but I'd wager that our CQC can beat his out too. The damage is rather brutal, but it's not as quick as ours.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
*is on FG*
Me: "VOTE4DAISY"
Opponent: "RAYMAN!"
Me: "Ew no"
*leaves*
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
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Our method of MU discussions as a whole are flawed and are mostly theorycraft.

We go about it to be as accurate as possible, but in the end it's all subjective opinion with only videos and frame data to back it up. Most FGCs only stick with frame data and hit confirm reward, then go from there. We're not like that all. We talk about neutral, advantaged, and disadvantaged states and thanks to the complexity of it all, we end up being very inaccurate.

Thanks to the lack of criteria for discussing MUs, a lot of our ratings, even in Melee, are extremely inaccurate and doesn't develop in the way reality works. It also does not account for intensities of a character's advantage/disadvantage and margin of error.

While I disagree with @ |ven| |ven| 's list, I'm not going to be one to say he's dead wrong, because I do not have the objective proof to say so. In the end, Smash 4 is the most balanced game in the series thus far, and therefore the gaps of power are noticeably less wide than previous entries. Pretty much every MU can be beaten by outplaying your opponent and you don't have to be considerably better than them.
 

warionumbah2

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yes, i get that. but saying MUs are tourney-only is ridiculous.
you should all be glad wifi exists. otherwise we would all be cavemen asking for local stupidity
#bias
If its about what I said earlier (I hope it isn't because it means yall catch feelings too easily)then I don't know what to say. if I can find my post I'll repost it but anyway I never said offline tourney players are the only ones allowed to provide input to MUs.

Online MUs isn't the best way to gauge a character at its best imo, because you're able to get away with so many stuff online that you wouldn't online and also in online tournaments there'll be that inevitable lag spike that can ruin a once good game. Some characters are living life on the edge online for example Ness and soon to be Lucas.

Offline is just completely different, don't know how it got to this bag of ****. If that post wasn't a reference to what I said then woops, but if it isn't let it go. Im not gonna stop online players from talking about MUs, alot of MUs don't matter because some of the characters are non existent like who cares if Rosa beats Bowser for example, so very few people will use him.
 
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Macchiato

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If its about what I said earlier (I hope it isn't because it means yall catch feelings too easily)then I don't know what to say. if I can find my post I'll repost it but anyway I never said offline tourney players are the only ones allowed to provide input to MUs.

Online MUs isn't the best way to gauge a character at its best imo, because you're able to get away with so many stuff online that you wouldn't online and also in online tournaments there'll be that inevitable lag spike that can ruin a once good game. Some characters are living life on the edge online for example Ness and soon to be Lucas.

Offline is just completely different, don't know how it got to this bag of ****. If that post wasn't a reference to what I said then woops, but if it isn't let it go. Im not gonna stop online players from talking about MUs, alot of MUs don't matter because some of the characters are non existent like who cares if Rosa beats Bowser for example, so very few people will use him.
Yes I do agree that offline is better for match ups but online isn't completely dead wrong. They still might have so true experience and data. Like I found out that Zeldas Fsmash beats sonics spin dash online, and it's still true. Your first post wasnt umm the best "online players are *******" aren't a good way to start a post. Online should be taken less than offline but shouldn't be turned away right away
 

FullMoon

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Apparently in Japan the ones that are getting the most votes are King K.Rool and Inkling.

Edit: Actually I read it wrong, it's King K.Rool and Krystal.
 
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Soul.

 
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K. Rool and Inkling are apparently the most voted characters right now. lol combo food and Mii Gunner 2.0
If its about what I said earlier (I hope it isn't because it means yall catch feelings too easily)then I don't know what to say. if I can find my post I'll repost it but anyway I never said offline tourney players are the only ones allowed to provide input to MUs.

Online MUs isn't the best way to gauge a character at its best imo, because you're able to get away with so many stuff online that you wouldn't online and also in online tournaments there'll be that inevitable lag spike that can ruin a once good game. Some characters are living life on the edge online for example Ness and soon to be Lucas.

Offline is just completely different, don't know how it got to this bag of ****. If that post wasn't a reference to what I said then woops, but if it isn't let it go. Im not gonna stop online players from talking about MUs, alot of MUs don't matter because some of the characters are non existent like who cares if Rosa beats Bowser for example, so very few people will use him.
it's not about what you said earlier. while i agree with this post, i'm just glad wifi exists. I know it isn't the best way to do **** with a character but hey, you're trying.
 

Shrokatii

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Apparently in Japan the ones that are getting the most votes are King K.Rool and Inkling.
I have a feeling Toon Zelda has like, no chance now. After reading several things online, seems like people want bayonetta, k. rool, Isaac, and inkling.

Never played bayonetta, doesn't seem interesting to my taste. Played DK:C, never beat it. Never played golden Sun. Won't play splatoon.

I thought smash bros was supposed to have characters everyone loves and recognizes, not to give games more recognition... Lol

Marth and Roy are an exception though
 
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Shrokatii

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Here's the Japan chart for the voting

Yeah I think we can bet on King K.Rool being the next DLC character, he's a common vote everywhere. Poor Shovel Knight only really has support from over here.
I don't think Nintendo really cares about how many votes their are for a character. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a comment box, but that's just me.

From the chart, I would want Crystal the most. The other characters don't really seem that interesting to me. I'm actually quite surprised people wanted Crystal that much, thought it's be like Wolf or something
 

WolfieXVII ❂

stay woke
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Bleh Paper Mario
Why is he so popular
Not to crap on his fans but I would much rather see anyone get in before another Mario
 

warionumbah2

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Wolf will make it, there's too much backing up is inevitable reveal.

  • In game trophy like Lucas and Mewtwo.
  • Popular character to return and people want him more thanks to Lucas reveal
  • Starfox U coming this year
  • Sakurai won't have to work too hard making Wolf since he can copy and paste the moves and voice(no ****ty new VA please)
@Ffamran How is the new Starfox game anyway? Any new info???
 

Gay Ginger

Make Smash Bros. Gay Again
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I think JigglyZelda is just speaking from the hard years of being a Brawl Zelda main. :^) If you weren't being countered by someone when playing as Zelda, it was a good MU!
Tbh I feel the same way as @JigglyZelda003 even in Sm4sh.

When I play in online tournaments or on smash ladder, I'm always coming across Yoshi, Diddy, Sonic, Sheik, Little Mac players, so even getting a moderately disadvantaged match-up feels like a miracle from the gods sometimes lol.
 

FullMoon

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Oh man if they replaced Wolf's VA for the 64 one... Yeah...

Funny how Japan just simply doesn't care about Wolf anymore.
 
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Cenizas

The Zelda We Need, But Not the One We Deserve
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K. Rool and Inkling are apparently the most voted characters right now. lol combo food and Mii Gunner 2.0
lol wat Inkling doesn't seem like Mii Gunner at all in my head. Inkling seems like a character with weak DPS, requires paint setup and is bad at zoning, but has long range with good evasiveness and mobility in squid form.
 

Soul.

 
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lol wat Inkling doesn't seem like Mii Gunner at all in my head. Inkling seems like a character with weak DPS, requires paint setup and is bad at zoning, but has long range with good evasiveness and mobility in squid form.
huh. that makes a lot more sense
 
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