Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Soul.]

Your opinion is wrong

blame me for not having played a good wii fit yet

 

[Macchiato]

blame me for not having played a good wii fit yet

Pikachu beats wii fit though. He's short, wii fits main weakness and he's also a good character. So yeah it's not a good MU

 

[FullMoon]

If there's a character that I'm going to try still it's probably Mario and maybe Doc.

Even then I'm probalby going to stick with Greninja.

Seriously the MUs against Fox, Sonic and Sheik are probably the only things keeping Greninja from Top 10.

 

[Macchiato]

@ FullMoon @ Soul. @ Berserker.
Here's a good representation of the fox vs wii fit MU
http://youtu.be/GIAwv67Kxhc

 

[Locke 06]

Fox has nothing safe on shield if you react properly except maybe spaced ftilt or dtilt. What makes him good is that he overwhelms you with speed.

I'm currently testing what mega man can punish with shield drop>utilt on fox. Spaced bair gets sourspot utilted, dash attack cross up = dash grab... Fox loses to a good defensive game, IMO.

 

[Furret]

me

 

[Macchiato]

Who said DACUS was gone?
http://youtu.be/Nlwdytuc0S0

 

[FullMoon]

Fox has nothing safe on shield if you react properly except maybe spaced ftilt or dtilt. What makes him good is that he overwhelms you with speed.

I'm currently testing what mega man can punish with shield drop>utilt on fox. Spaced bair gets sourspot utilted, dash attack cross up = dash grab... Fox loses to a good defensive game, IMO.

I currently lack a good defensive game, maybe I should work on that in order to be able to stand a chance against a good Fox.

And for that matter I need to play matches with Fox players.

 

[PUK]

I'm not so sure of that actually. He has a such hard time to land a kill move here, and WFT is not easy to combo/gimp. And fully charged SS beat everything but F smadh, charged skull bash and thunder maybe. Also Bair outrange lots of options. I think we shouldn't give up on this MU
Ah i was résponding to

Pikachu beats wii fit though. He's short, wii fits main weakness and he's also a good character. So yeah it's not a good MU

 

[Locke 06]

Actually, it's ironic. 20XX, where everyone is frame perfect, Fox is probably one of the worst characters.

I mean... His 2 main kill setups rely on a missed tech/tech chase (fast fall fair>usmash and Nair usmash. Which, I think connects at mid%'s without the tech, but can miss at high %'s. Could be wrong though)

 

[Lavani]

why is burning spin dash invincible

why does this thing get 30% comboing into nair

why can it combo into homing attack at higher percents

why does Sonic land in grounded idle position after jumping out of it, able to attack or shield instantly

this custom is silly

Who said DACUS was gone?
http://youtu.be/Nlwdytuc0S0

That isn't a DACUS, that's just reversing momentum with a backwards crawl then usmashing

 

[Macchiato]

why is burning spin dash invincible

why does this thing get 30% comboing into nair

why can it combo into homing attack at higher percents

why does Sonic land in grounded idle position after jumping out of it, able to attack or shield instantly

this custom is silly


That isn't a DACUS, that's just reversing momentum with a backwards crawl then usmashing

So the diddy dtilt side b thing... It's still a good option.

 

[Soul.]

@ FullMoon @ Soul. @ Berserker.
Here's a good representation of the fox vs wii fit MU
http://youtu.be/GIAwv67Kxhc

inb4 she has the advantage

Actually, it's ironic. 20XX, where everyone is frame perfect, Fox is probably one of the worst characters.

I mean... His 2 main kill setups rely on a missed tech/tech chase (fast fall fair>usmash and Nair usmash. Which, I think connects at mid%'s without the tech, but can miss at high %'s. Could be wrong though)

>fox is bad

why is burning spin dash invincible

why does this thing get 30% comboing into nair

why can it combo into homing attack at higher percents

why does Sonic land in grounded idle position after jumping out of it, able to attack or shield instantly

this custom is silly


That isn't a DACUS, that's just reversing momentum with a backwards crawl then usmashing

So now you can tell me HSD isn't as good as BSD Kappa

 

[Fernosaur]

Playing around with random characters' customs

I didn't know before now that Meteor Trampoline had spiking hitboxes on the bounce as well, the in-game description implied only the last use spiked. This is what, a frame 3? 4? spike that simultaneously gets Pac up and out of there. I'm sure I'm missing more about this move but it seems pretty silly just for that alone.

That **** is annoying as ****, yo. When I played @ Spirst the meteor tramp caught me SO off-guard I literally had no idea what to do against it. You're right, it's a 3-4 frame spike that is incredibly, ridiculously safe. I don't see a reason why you'd want the standard trampoline except I think meteor makes his vertical recovery not ridic.

 

[Spirst]

Meteor trampoline is good when you find out how to properly utilize it. The meteor hitbox below the trampoline is about as large as Pacman himself and it can catch people who are on the ledge. It is in fact a frame 3 spike, yeah.

The downside to it is it makes his trampoline recovery pretty crappy. Usually, you recover with power pellet anyway but in the event the pellet gets knocked away, you're forced to rely on your trampoline. Each consecutive bounce sends you lower than the initial one so if you miss bounce 1, it's pretty much game over and you can either just turn left/right to kill yourself immediately or finish the bounces and watch yourself get spiked.

 

[Berserker.]

@ FullMoon @ Soul. @ Berserker.
Here's a good representation of the fox vs wii fit MU
http://youtu.be/GIAwv67Kxhc

I'll wait for a formal match up discussion to happen between the WFT boards and the Fox boards

I'd prefer to do that

 

[Macchiato]

Why is fox high tier. I don't see it tbh.

 

[Fernosaur]

Meteor trampoline is good when you find out how to properly utilize it. The meteor hitbox below the trampoline is about as large as Pacman himself and it can catch people who are on the ledge. It is in fact a frame 3 spike, yeah.

The downside to it is it makes his trampoline recovery pretty crappy. Usually, you recover with power pellet anyway but in the event the pellet gets knocked away, you're forced to rely on your trampoline. Each consecutive bounce sends you lower than the initial one so if you miss bounce 1, it's pretty much game over and you can either just turn left/right to kill yourself immediately or finish the bounces and watch yourself get spiked.

Mental note: aim for the stupid pellet.

 

[Berserker.]

Why is fox high tier. I don't see it tbh.

... wot

Great tournament results, great representation, good KO power, extremely fast (both attack speed and mobility), and amazing damage racking ability. Only problems are his lack of safe approaches, gimpable recovery, risky off-stage game, him being easy to juggle, and easy to kill

I think you've never seen MegaFox play. Fox is top 5 in my list.

 

[Spirst]

Mental note: aim for the stupid pellet.

Pretty much. Only problem with that is that it has a lot of flexibility. I can make U-turns and ****. If I get to it, I get superarmor and will most likely stage spike you. Pac-Man's recovery is dumb.

 

[Lavani]

or finish the bounces and watch yourself get spiked.

So this gave me a random silly idea, and I inadvertently discovered that if you spike yourself and DI toward a wall then wall jump tech, since you were bouncing on the trampoline Pac gets his double jump refreshed too.

So in the rare instance that you're recovering low against a wall and can't reach the ledge with the first bounce, you could actually wall jump tech > double jump > sideB/trampoline to make it back.

 

[FullMoon]

I'm just going to say it now but man the art for the Greninja EX card (which is the image in my avatar) is so amazing. Even better is that I actually have the card in question.

But yeah I really need to learn how to fight Sonic and Fox with Greninja. Sheik I already have a good deal of experience with and she's manageable, uphill, but manageable.

 

[Locke 06]

I currently lack a good defensive game, maybe I should work on that in order to be able to stand a chance against a good Fox.

And for that matter I need to play matches with Fox players.

You play Greninja. You have no defensive game to be respected except for jab OoS at frame 10? Fox is kind of a natural counter on paper.

@ HeroMystic @ Berserker. - Reading up on some Meg@fox. Impressions coming in ~20 minutes.

@ Macchiato - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL9jbvixDtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXVgH2GGVUM

 

[Spirst]

So this gave me a random silly idea, and I inadvertently discovered that if you spike yourself and DI toward a wall then wall jump tech, since you were bouncing on the trampoline Pac gets his double jump refreshed too.

So in the rare instance that you're recovering low against a wall and can't reach the ledge with the first bounce, you could actually wall jump tech > double jump > sideB/trampoline to make it back.

You can wall jump after the tech too which makes the recovery a lot safer. Given that walled omegas also let you catch the key by hitting the wall, all the more reason to pick them when possible.

 

[Soul.]

Anyone who thinks Fox isn't high tier must be on a field day with Peter Pan

 

[HeroMystic]

Samus' Power Bombs (I don't care what the game calls them, they're Power Bombs ok) are huge. I'm kind of wondering why she has like, no sets with them in the custom moveset project, because these seem like they'd control space really well. Unrelated to her customs, utilt's spike hit has a ton of hitstun. Shame it's techable and only spikes grounded targets, but she has years to combo off of it.

The Samus boards really dislike them for some reason.

I believe like 2-3 Samus mains that don't read the Samus boards chimed in on the Customs Moveset Project Thread and expressed why in the world Power Bomb is not on any set. And I agree with them. It helps her out so much.

Oh well I guess. Suppose I can make a case for them next time.

 

[Soul.]

LMAO

 

[Locke 06]

Power bombs are legit. I'm a big fan.

Replace Power bombs with Meg@fox and you have 2 sentences I agree with. His movement and pressure is spot on. At least in the first few games I'm watching (vs Diddy GF), he's winning by making his opponent press buttons while he just moves around. The idea that Fox loses to shield is kind of legit, but that gives Fox free reign to just dance around the shield to apply really scary pressure because he can punish rolls so well with running usmash and stuff. Other than that, his combos are super on point. However, there were a lot of missed punishes by Diddy in this set. And no uthrow>uair lol.

I also want to face more good Fox's.

 

[Berserker.]

Edit: Whoops

 

[Lavani]

Speaking of customs, I really have to wonder if customs at nationals is going to stay a thing. A lot of people seem really miffed over their sets not being in the project - especially true for the japanese players that didn't even have a chance to get their say in, aMSa seemed really disappointed about the whole thing on twitter and I know abadango wasn't pleased with the Pac sets either. This sort of thing gives me the impression that customs just aren't going to work if people are forced into picking presets.

 

[Berserker.]

"Evo lol" -Nietono

Edit: Whoops

Lol

 

[HeroMystic]

Edit: Whoops

I almost had to put you on blast, Waifu.

 

[Berserker.]

I almost had to put you on blast, Waifu.

Didn't click the link and jumped into conclusions

Good thing I clicked fast

 

[Spirst]

Hooray for being able to see edit history!

 

[Locke 06]

I WANNA KNOW. Can you show me?

Jab1>jab2>pivot>utilt. HFS that's genius and so slick. Diddy spot dodge'd but that's a gem that is probably going to be overlooked.

 

[Berserker.]

What I see:

Hooray for being able to see edit history!

What the actual message is:

Hooray for power abuse!

 

[HeroMystic]

Power bombs are legit. I'm a big fan.

Replace Power bombs with Meg@fox and you have 2 sentences I agree with. His movement and pressure is spot on. At least in the first few games I'm watching (vs Diddy GF), he's winning by making his opponent press buttons while he just moves around. The idea that Fox loses to shield is kind of legit, but that gives Fox free reign to just dance around the shield to apply really scary pressure because he can punish rolls so well with running usmash and stuff. Other than that, his combos are super on point. However, there were a lot of missed punishes by Diddy in this set. And no uthrow>uair lol.

I also want to face more good Fox's.

Megafox's problem is he's kind of predictable. If a player decides to not be scared and move around while not sitting in shield, they can give him a run for his money. That said you -really- have to have top-notch reaction against Megafox to punish him. He utilizes his speed so well.

IIRC, Denti beat Megafox at SAM2 (San Antonio Monthly) with mainly relying on U-Throw > U-air.

Speaking of customs, I really have to wonder if customs at nationals is going to stay a thing. A lot of people seem really miffed over their sets not being in the project - especially true for the japanese players that didn't even have a chance to get their say in, aMSa seemed really disappointed about the whole thing on twitter and I know abadango wasn't pleased with the Pac sets either. This sort of thing gives me the impression that customs just aren't going to work if people are forced into picking presets.

I honestly didn't think about the japanese players. That said, that's really true.

Since AA's project is mainly English-centered, this leaves a lot of people out. Huh, that's a massive oversight that I didn't think about.

That said, this is really only a big issue for EVO (and maybe APEX) since they are adamant in not uploading custom sets via 3DS. While I believe people really undermine the logistics trouble behind this, uploading sets from a 3DS really takes very little time.

 

[Locke 06]

Megafox's problem is he's kind of predictable. If a player decides to not be scared and move around while not sitting in shield, they can give him a run for his money. That said you -really- have to have top-notch reaction against Megafox to punish him. He utilizes his speed so well.

IIRC, Denti beat Megafox at SAM2 (San Antonio Monthly) with mainly relying on U-Throw > U-air.

To be honest, watching him it kinda seems like he's predictable because Fox doesn't really have a whole lot of options in neutral. NAir all day and then maybe dash>shield>jabs/tilts. Maybe DAir for a mixup but that's really punishable like dash attack. He's by far the most creative Fox I've seen and his followups are just golden.

Diddy is balanced.

 

[Fernosaur]

You can wall jump after the tech too which makes the recovery a lot safer. Given that walled omegas also let you catch the key by hitting the wall, all the more reason to pick them when possible.

Dude when I go back home we totally have to play and if you pull that off I'll... I dunno, blow you or wtv.

 

[Soul.]

Why is EVO not uploading customs with the beloved 3DS again