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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

warionumbah2

warionumbah2

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Macchiato said:
Here's the thing. I've got it down to 4 characters. :4zelda::4wiifit::4peach::4drmario:. I really don't know who I want to main, I'm good with all of them and they're all fun to play. I can't main 2 of them at once since, they don't cover each others match ups well. I'm really trying to find a main but honestly I really don't know how.
Click to expand...
All except Peach sucks in default, WFT becomes better with customs,Peach is still good, Doc comes out the trash bin and Zelda....:yeahboi:

You'll find that one char that clicks, MK was actually the first sm4sh character i used but i dropped him and came back when i got better(used ganon the most because he teaches me how to read and stuff).
 
SBphiloz4

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Even though I have been infracted... twice, I'm still pure in the sense that I haven't had the pink text bestowed on me yet.

Ehehehe I'm still a pure gorl~ ;)
 
NonSpecificGuy

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SBphiloz4 said:
Even though I have been infracted... twice, I'm still pure in the sense that I haven't had the pink text bestowed on me yet.

Ehehehe I'm still a pure gorl~ ;)
Click to expand...
You do know what getting pranked is.... Right?
 
SBphiloz4

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NonSpecificGuy said:
You do know what getting pranked is.... Right?
Click to expand...
Isn't it just Premium people tagging non-premium people with a pink text or something like that, kinda like Facebook poking?

So like someone like you can prank someone like me--

... Oh wait.
 
JigglyZelda003

JigglyZelda003

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Macchiato said:
Here's the thing. I've got it down to 4 characters. :4zelda::4wiifit::4peach::4drmario:. I really don't know who I want to main, I'm good with all of them and they're all fun to play. I can't main 2 of them at once since, they don't cover each others match ups well. I'm really trying to find a main but honestly I really don't know how.
Click to expand...
honestly gorl i'm dual maining :4zelda::4peach: and trying to find a secondary that happens to do well against characters i'd rather not deal with with either of them. I haven't seen your Peach but i support :4wiifit::4zelda: since i have seen them and feel like you know them really well.
Yaaay said:
If I were you, I would decide what your goal is in playing Smash. If your goal is only to place high in tourneys, then honestly playing an easy top tier character such as Diddy/Sheik/Sonic is more effective. If you want to place high but you really want to play one of these characters, then maining Peach is by far the best choice and I can hardly think of any match-up where Zelda, Wii Fit or Doc do better than she does. If just having fun is your objective, then just pick the characters you have most fun with.

That's my advice.
Click to expand...
unless you don't vibe with high tiers, then tier whoring means squat since i don't think even diddy is brawl pocket MK lvls lol. :4pacman:

there is also the option of being the best player of X character, you may not win every tournament but you gain recognition for not being another high tier. wasn't Riot Queen Zelda for Brawl?

Peach may be "better" than the others on @ Macchiato Macchiato list but if she's not vibing on Peach well she would be better off going one of the other 3. does @Nairo have a main? that gorl uses multiple trix so you can get somewhere playing matchup specific i think.
 
NonSpecificGuy

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SBphiloz4 said:
Isn't it just Premium people tagging non-premium people with a pink text or something like that, kinda like Facebook poking?

So like someone like you can prank someone like me--

... Oh wait.
Click to expand...
Eh, kinda.

And yes someone like me could prank you. And you just painted a target on your back...
 
kenniky

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Spirst said:
There is no way either Rinkario or NonSpecificGuy will be able to completely keep up with this thread.

Give it some time and they'll no doubt end up like this after spending hours liking each post:

Click to expand...
Hey I read every post in this thread... I don't like them all but I could if I wanted to :p
 
Macchiato

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Yaaay said:
If I were you, I would decide what your goal is in playing Smash. If your goal is only to place high in tourneys, then honestly playing an easy top tier character such as Diddy/Sheik/Sonic is more effective. If you want to place high but you really want to play one of these characters, then maining Peach is by far the best choice and I can hardly think of any match-up where Zelda, Wii Fit or Doc do better than she does. If just having fun is your objective, then just pick the characters you have most fun with.

That's my advice.
Click to expand...
I want to have fun AND win, but I won't use a top tier. Honestly I think wii fit is better than peach, she beats sheik, ness and goes even with diddy and rosalina. But some characters like Kirby and a Greninja shut her down.
warionumbah2 said:
All except Peach sucks in default, WFT becomes better with customs,Peach is still good, Doc comes out the trash bin and Zelda....:yeahboi:

You'll find that one char that clicks, MK was actually the first sm4sh character i used but i dropped him and came back when i got better(used ganon the most because he teaches me how to read and stuff).
Click to expand...
Wii fit is high tier in default, Zelda is mid, and Doc is Low

Wii fit is top tier in customs, Zelda is still mid, Doc is high.
BJN39 said:
Wait, Macchiato was prankeT? :awesome:

Edit : AND LAVANI?! :awesome::awesome:



Click to expand...
I still don't know by hew? @Mocha was it yew?
 
Last edited:
KuroganeHammer

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Interested in opinions so I can make a Zelda meme sass image to laugh and mock the TO with

Also he said he can dq anyone he thinks is stalling at his discretion
 
Last edited:
SBphiloz4

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>when I saw 3 stock
>then I saw 6 minutes
 
Lorde

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Can any of the local frame data gorls (@ Lavani Lavani @ BJN39 BJN39 @Ffamran ) give me a quick run-down on how to read frame data? Like here's Peach's dtilt:
Code: 
def game_5D():
    AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=9.000000, )
    SetBoneIntangibility_0F0(0x10, 0x2, )
    AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=13.000000, )
    Hitbox_029(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x113, KBG=0x69, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x3C, Size=3.800000, Z=0.000000, Y=3.200000, X=7.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x3E99999A, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x2, 0x1, 0x1, 0x1, 0x4, 0x0, 2.000000, 15.000000, )
    Hitbox_026(ID=0x1, GID=0x0, Bone=0x11, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x50, KBG=0x69, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xF, Size=4.500000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x3E99999A, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x2, 0x1, 0x4, )
    SynchronousTimer_20B(Frame=2.000000, )
    ResetBoneIntangibility_0EF(0x0, )
    RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
    End_196()
The first thing that says Frame=9 means the hitboxes come out on frame 9, right? Does the setboneintangibility mean her arm is intangible? The second AsynchronousTimer is really confusing me. Is that when the hitboxes end? And I don't really understand anything else except the damage=7.
 
KuroganeHammer

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NAsh88 said:
Can any of the local frame data gorls (@ Lavani Lavani @ BJN39 BJN39 @Ffamran ) give me a quick run-down on how to read frame data? Like here's Peach's dtilt:
Code: 
def game_5D():
    AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=9.000000, )
    SetBoneIntangibility_0F0(0x10, 0x2, )
    AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=13.000000, )
    Hitbox_029(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x113, KBG=0x69, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x3C, Size=3.800000, Z=0.000000, Y=3.200000, X=7.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x3E99999A, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x2, 0x1, 0x1, 0x1, 0x4, 0x0, 2.000000, 15.000000, )
    Hitbox_026(ID=0x1, GID=0x0, Bone=0x11, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x50, KBG=0x69, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xF, Size=4.500000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x3E99999A, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x2, 0x1, 0x4, )
    SynchronousTimer_20B(Frame=2.000000, )
    ResetBoneIntangibility_0EF(0x0, )
    RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
    End_196()
The first thing that says Frame=9 means the hitboxes come out on frame 9, right? Does the setboneintangibility mean her arm is intangible? The second AsynchronousTimer is really confusing me. Is that when the hitboxes end? And I don't really understand anything else except the damage=7.
Click to expand...
Synchronous means that it has hitboxes for 2 frames, so it would hit on 9-10

The other stuff is in hex and used for KB calculation
 
Lavani

Lavani

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NAsh88 said:
Can any of the local frame data gorls (@ Lavani Lavani @ BJN39 BJN39 @Ffamran ) give me a quick run-down on how to read frame data? Like here's Peach's dtilt:
Code: 
def game_5D():
    AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=9.000000, )
    SetBoneIntangibility_0F0(0x10, 0x2, )
    AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=13.000000, )
    Hitbox_029(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x113, KBG=0x69, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x3C, Size=3.800000, Z=0.000000, Y=3.200000, X=7.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x3E99999A, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x2, 0x1, 0x1, 0x1, 0x4, 0x0, 2.000000, 15.000000, )
    Hitbox_026(ID=0x1, GID=0x0, Bone=0x11, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x50, KBG=0x69, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xF, Size=4.500000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x3E99999A, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x2, 0x1, 0x4, )
    SynchronousTimer_20B(Frame=2.000000, )
    ResetBoneIntangibility_0EF(0x0, )
    RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
    End_196()
The first thing that says Frame=9 means the hitboxes come out on frame 9, right? Does the setboneintangibility mean her arm is intangible? The second AsynchronousTimer is really confusing me. Is that when the hitboxes end? And I don't really understand anything else except the damage=7.
Click to expand...
I will quote this post from before because it will save me a lot of typing, though it uses a different example:

Lavani said:
Just kidding @Nammy12 I will get you started because I am terribly bored and this coffee is making me feel motivated.

Let's take Zelda's dair as an example:
def game_6C():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=4.000000, )
unk_170(0xD, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=14.000000, )
Hitbox_026(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x7, Damage=16.000000, Angle=0x10E, KBG=0x41, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=4.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, Element=0x1A, Tripping=0x0, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x3, 0x10, 0x3, 0x1, 0xF, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=15.000000, )
Hitbox_026(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x5, Damage=5.000000, Angle=0x113, KBG=0x5A, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x5, Size=6.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x0, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, )
Hitbox_026(ID=0x1, GID=0x0, Bone=0x7, Damage=4.000000, Angle=0x113, KBG=0x46, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x0, Size=6.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=0.000000, X=0.000000, Element=0x0, Tripping=0x0, Hitlag=1.000000, SDI=1.000000, unk_=0x1, unk_=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=25.000000, )
RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=40.000000, )
unk_16F(0xD, 0x2100, )
End_196()
Click to expand...
unk_170(0xD, 0x2100, ) sets the landing lag flag, while unk_16F clears it. This means dair autocancels before frame 4 (the frame landing lag is set) and after frame 39 (the frame before landing lag is cleared).

On frame 14, dair's sweetspot is set. Bone=0x7 tells us the hitbox is tied to bone 7 (Zelda's foot), meaning the X/Y/Z coordinates will relate to that. Values aside from damage are given in hexadecimal, so the knockback angle is 270°, KBG is 65, and BKB is 30. Size and XYZ relate to the size and location of the hitbox (duh) and use the same units of scale with size referring to the radius. Element=0x1A tells us the hit is magic element, though elements largely don't affect much.

On frame 15, the sweetspot's hitbox ID, 0x0, is changed to have her sourspot properties, thus also removing her sweetspot hitbox. Another hitbox is added with the same Group ID, meaning that both hitboxes can't hit the same opponent.

The hitboxes are removed on frame 25, meaning the last active frame is frame 24.

So from this data, we learn the following:

Dair
Frame 14-14: 16% 30b/65g 270° Magic
Hitbox size 4.0, located on Zelda's foot with no displacement.

Frame 15-24: (5%, 4%) (5b/90g, 0b/70g) 275°
Hitbox 1 size 6.0, located on Zelda's leg with no displacement.
Hitbox 2 size 6.0, located on Zelda's foot with no displacement.

Landing lag if landing from 4-39f

---

The unlabeled values mean stuff too, and there's stuff like SynchronousTimers and FrameSpeedMultipliers that aren't used in this example, but I get the feeling there's already plenty of info elsewhere that's more thorough so I don't want to type too much unnecessary stuff. If you have more questions though feel free to ask, I know there's a lot I either didn't cover or didn't go in-depth on.
Click to expand...
In Peach's dtilt:

Frame 9
- Arm intangible

Frame 13
- Hitbox active

Frame 15
- Arm tangible
- Hitbox removed

So it's intangible 9-14f and active 13-14f.
 
BJN39

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In other news I just realized a tiny error I made on Zelda's aerials in the Fairy Fountain that I'mma fix shortly. (I realized I accidentally have the auto-cancel window 1 frame off concerning late AC.)

Edit : fixT now.
 
Last edited:
Lorde

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Lavani said:
I will quote this post from before because it will save me a lot of typing, though it uses a different example:



In Peach's dtilt:

Frame 9
- Arm intangible

Frame 13
- Hitbox active

Frame 15
- Arm tangible
- Hitbox removed

So it's intangible 9-14f and active 13-14f.
Click to expand...
ty; you're amazing

So if I'm reading this correctly, in Peach's bair:
Code: 
def game_6A():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=5.000000, )
unk_170(0xD, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=6.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=12.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5C, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=6.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=8.000000, X=-5.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x2, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x3, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=8.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x46, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xA, Size=5.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=8.000000, X=-5.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x3, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=14.000000, )
RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=30.000000, )
unk_16F(0xD, 0x2100, )
End_196()

Frame 5
Sets landing lag flag and the unk_170 clears it

Frame 6
Hitbox comes out, does 12%, Angle is 361° (which is the Sakurai angle iirc), KBG (is this knockback growth?) is 92, BKB (base knockback?) is 30

Frame 8
Hitbox 2 comes out, does 7%, still uses Sakurai Angle, KBG and BKB are significantly weaker

Frame 14
Hitboxes are gone, so frame 13 is the last active frame

Frame 29
Landing lag flag is cleared
 
Lavani

Lavani

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NAsh88 said:
ty; you're amazing

So if I'm reading this correctly, in Peach's bair:
Code: 
def game_6A():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=5.000000, )
unk_170(0xD, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=6.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=12.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5C, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=6.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=8.000000, X=-5.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x2, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x3, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=8.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x46, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xA, Size=5.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=8.000000, X=-5.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x3, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=14.000000, )
RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=30.000000, )
unk_16F(0xD, 0x2100, )
End_196()

Frame 5
Sets landing lag flag and the unk_170 clears it

Frame 6
Hitbox comes out, does 12%, Angle is 361° (which is the Sakurai angle iirc), KBG (is this knockback growth?) is 92, BKB (base knockback?) is 30

Frame 8
Hitbox 2 comes out, does 7%, still uses Sakurai Angle, KBG and BKB are significantly weaker

Frame 14
Hitboxes are gone, so frame 13 is the last active frame

Frame 29
Landing lag flag is cleared
Click to expand...
yew got it gorl
 
BJN39

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NAsh88 said:
ty; you're amazing

So if I'm reading this correctly, in Peach's bair:
Code: 
def game_6A():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=5.000000, )
unk_170(0xD, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=6.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=12.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5C, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=6.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=8.000000, X=-5.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x2, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x3, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=8.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x46, WKB=0x0, BKB=0xA, Size=5.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=8.000000, X=-5.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x3, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=14.000000, )
RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=30.000000, )
unk_16F(0xD, 0x2100, )
End_196()

Frame 5
Sets landing lag flag and the unk_170 clears it

Frame 6
Hitbox comes out, does 12%, Angle is 361° (which is the Sakurai angle iirc), KBG (is this knockback growth?) is 92, BKB (base knockback?) is 30

Frame 8
Hitbox 2 comes out, does 7%, still uses Sakurai Angle, KBG and BKB are significantly weaker

Frame 14
Hitboxes are gone, so frame 13 is the last active frame

Frame 29
Landing lag flag is cleared
Click to expand...
Nailed it! I think you could be pretty good at this. The Peachs also don't seem to have anyone taking mastercore data atm either.
 
Lorde

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Lavani said:
yew got it gorl
Click to expand...
It's all thanks to you and your guide. <3

The pretty colors were especially helpful and I probably wouldn't have been able to understand it without them.
 
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Lorde

Lorde

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Aeralfos said:
Nash yew are a natural!!

I've decided to go to this tournament and try to get DQd by timing people out.
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ty sis <3

Make sure to use Rosalina and spam rolls to make people extra salty.


BJN39 said:
Nailed it! I think you could be pretty good at this. The Peachs also don't seem to have anyone taking mastercore data atm either.
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You're too kind, sis!

I do find it pretty fun to do this since it's like solving a puzzle or something lol. I don't have too much time on my hands (school is demanding and I start my new job next week ;-; ) but I'll probably start compiling a list of Peach's (and maybe some of the other, less popular characters I play, such as Samus) frame data soon. Is there anything else I need to know about mining frame data?
 
KuroganeHammer

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
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Just tag us when you run into problems

You will learn more that way

Also compare frame data threads with their mastercore pages

Oop double post
 
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BJN39

BJN39

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Aeralfos said:
Just tag us when you run into problems

You will learn more that way

Also compare frame data threads with their mastercore pages

Oop double post
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Gotchya covered bby.

oh yeah something something don't double post you'll teach the kids wrong
 
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SBphiloz4

SBphiloz4

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Macchiato actually double posted on this page but because the two posts were a page apart, it looks innocent (where of course he isn't). :^)

And smh mods are such hypocrites double posting themselves when they ban others that double post.
 
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