Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Locke 06]

If those are Zelda's worst MU's, she's more viable than Samus and D3, who are somewhat invalidated by some characters. So there's that.

 

[Berserker.]

Ganondorf's frame speed

N-air (Frame 7)
F-air (Frame 14, as fast/slow as Shulk's f-air)
U-air (Frame 6)
D-air (Frame 16)

 

[Shrokatii]

I never actually faced a zelda in my time playing the game. I'm free right now so if anyone wants to show me her I would be up for it.

K I can smash now if you want to. You let me know.

 

[Soul.]

This is just my opinion on how Shulk fares against the top tiers. Not in order because I'm sleepy as **** right now

Spoiler

-1
-1
-2
-2
+0
+0
-1
(??)
(??)
(??)
+2
(??)
+0
+1
+1
+0
+1

So he loses to speedsters (Sonic/Fox) unless I'm wrong. Interesting.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Does Ganon even have a combo game besides dthrow to dash attack and Flame Choke reads? Zelda actually has a decent combo game with kill setups if you can read an airdodge.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

K I can smash now if you want to. You let me know.

Ok, who will set up a room?

This is just my opinion on how Shulk fares against the top and high tiers. Not in order because I'm sleepy as **** right now

Spoiler

-1
-1
-2
-2
+0
+0
-1
(??)
(??)
(??)
+2
(??)
+0
+1
+1
+0
+1

You left out my main man villager. ;_;

 

[Soul.]

Does Ganon even have a combo game besides dthrow to dash attack and Flame Choke reads? Zelda actually has a decent combo game with kill setups if you can read an airdodge.

No lol those are pretty much Ganon's "combos". His moves have a lot of knockback (captain obvious).

 

[Shrokatii]

Ok, who will set up a room?


You left out my main man villager. ;_;

I can go ahead and set it up.

 

[Locke 06]

Whenever I see a Ganondorf, I want them to play like Bizz@ro fl@me.

First link starts at like... 2:10. I know Bizz isn't the best or even that good of a smash 4 ganon... But he is so fun to watch.

 

[Berserker.]

So he loses to speedsters (Sonic/Fox) unless I'm wrong. Interesting.

Speedsters that get a lot of reward from their hits and have decent range to be specific

 

[Lozjam]

I wouldn't say that his Dair or Fair are really "fast" at all tbh.

His Fair has around 13 frames of start up lag, and can autocancel
Dair has 15, and has transcendent Priority

Does Ganon even have a combo game besides dthrow to dash attack and Flame Choke reads? Zelda actually has a decent combo game with kill setups if you can read an airdodge.

Um yes. Dair to a variety of things have true combos. B throw to Bair works with Di, jab to dash attack, Fair to Wizkick, Fair to Choke, Choke to Ftilt/Dtilt, D-throw to Uair, Fthrow to Dash attack, jab to Wizkick, Ledge Cancelled Wiz kick to Fair/Bair, Uair to Fair, Tip of Cancelled Nair to Fsmash. Ganondorf's combo game is strong, especially if you can read DI. Also keep in mind that all of Ganondorf's average damage output is 13% per hit, and Ganondorf easily kills at 70% with most characters.

 

[Berserker.]

You left out my main man villager. ;_;

He's not THAT good tbh. Counterpick character. She's got too much polarizing match ups (Reflectors and MEGA MAN)

Just a question but can't you tech Flame choke's knockdown?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

He's not THAT good tbh. Counterpick character. She's got too much polarizing match ups (Reflectors and MEGA MAN)

Just a question but can't you tech Flame choke's knockdown?

Yep. It becomes a game of reading your opponent.

 

[Soul.]

Speedsters that get a lot of reward from their hits and have decent range to be specific

So Pikachu wi---
"decent range"
but but.
"no Pikachu's range is bad"

 

[Furret]

You can pretend he isn't there higglebottom.

His MU's are too good to be true, what character has a huge advantage against him? Same with Dark Pit.

in my opinion any character who can play a stronger projectile game will have an advantage. He's always trying to get others to approach him, cause defensively he is solid, but his approach is lacking in various ways (his landing lag my general complaint). He's always trying to bait and punish, but as soon as the shoe is on the other foot it's roles reversed cause all of his kill options that aren't Fthrow are easy to punish. Like if you don't know the match up you'll get beat, but as soon as you know what he's looking for and how to DI, Pit struggles. His chain grab isn't a true chain grab, People fall out of nair worse than people fall out of Zelda Fsmash. I will admit I'm not the best Pit player, but I merely think he's decent not great and more people need to learn what the character does

He's like Mario in terms of match up spreads. There aren't any characters in the game that curb stomp Pit but Pit doesn't annihilate anyone either. He has good poking tools, great aerials, top 10/15 ground game, he's basically a jack of all trades. Just to add icing on the cake, he's got good representation from Nairu.

I think trashes pit so hard it's not even funny ( to an extent as well). I think his ground game is over rated. A lot of his frames and disjoints just says he's good for camping not zone breaking. IMO not a jack of all trades

I wouldn't say that his Dair or Fair are really "fast" at all tbh.

he's like DK in a way fast Nair, Bair, Uair

Does Ganon even have a combo game besides dthrow to dash attack and Flame Choke reads? Zelda actually has a decent combo game with kill setups if you can read an airdodge.

He has some, but with as much damage as he does all trades already go in his favor a combo game would be overwhelming, he just needs a way to mix up approaches

He's not THAT good tbh. Counterpick character. She's got too much polarizing match ups (Reflectors and MEGA MAN)

Just a question but can't you tech Flame choke's knockdown?

yes, so long as the grounded version was used

 

[Deleted member]

His Fair has around 13 frames of start up lag, and can autocancel
Dair has 15, and has transcendent Priority

Um yes. Dair to a variety of things have true combos. B throw to Bair works with Di, jab to dash attack, Fair to Wizkick, Fair to Choke, Choke to Ftilt/Dtilt, D-throw to Uair, Fthrow to Dash attack, jab to Wizkick, Ledge Cancelled Wiz kick to Fair/Bair, Uair to Fair, Tip of Cancelled Nair to Fsmash. Ganondorf's combo game is strong, especially if you can read DI. Also keep in mind that all of Ganondorf's average damage output is 13% per hit, and Ganondorf easily kills at 70% with most characters.

Objectively that isn't "extremely fast" though.

Extremely fast is something like Yoshi's, Pit's, or Ness's Nair.

All of those can be used to easily interrupt anything that isn't a perfectly true combo, Dorf's Fair and Dair can't, really.

 

[Berserker.]

So Pikachu wi---
"decent range"
but but.
"no Pikachu's range is bad"

In theory (Which means it's not 100%), the MU is even. It would have been Pika's favor but the range is definitely an glaring issue here

 

[Lozjam]

Objectively that isn't "extremely fast" though.

Extremely fast is something like Yoshi's, Pit's, or Ness's Nair.

All of those can be used to easily interrupt anything that isn't a perfectly true combo, Dorf's Fair and Dair can't, really.

They are DI dependent and Percent dependent, much like Zelda's combo game. I was explaining it for @S.F.L.R.9, in the terms he knew, in that Ganondorf is at least on par with Zelda(He is much etter than Zelda IMO).

 

[Locke 06]

Isn't Fox's range bad? I mean... He has his utilt, which has good range, but he's mostly a speed+low range character.

Also, Pit's autocancels are so good. They make me jealous as a Marcina player.

 

[Macchiato]

They are DI dependent and Percent dependent, much like Zelda's combo game. I was explaining it for @S.F.L.R.9, in the terms he knew, in that Ganondorf is at least on par with Zelda(He is much etter than Zelda IMO).

Actually Zeldas dthrow combos are unDIable and work at all percents.

 

[Berserker.]

Isn't Fox's range bad? I mean... He has his utilt, which has good range, but he's mostly a speed+low range character.

I don't think it's that bad but it's not the range that makes him annoying. There's a reason why Treluh prefers going Zard/Robin over Shulk against MegaF0x's Fox.

 

[Lozjam]

Actually Zeldas dthrow combos are unDIable and work at all percents.

Ganondorf's Dthrow to Dash Atttack aren't DIable either at about 0-50%

 

[Macchiato]

Ganondorf's Dthrow to Dash Atttack aren't DIable either at about 0-50%

Zelda Dthrow to Uair/fair/Bair/nair work from 0-120%

 

[FullMoon]

Let me try this for Greninja:

Spoiler

50:50/55:45?
40:60
40:60/45:55?
40:60
50:50
50:50
50:50
55:45
?
50:50
60:40
45:55/50:50?
50:50
50:50
50:50
?
50:50

Yeeeah. Greninja's problem is that he has a few bad top tier MUs and goes even with most of the rest except a couple. Sure he has a good chance of winning, but he's probably going to struggle to do it.

If we had our old shurikens back then I think Sonic and Meta Knight would probably become even MUs while Sheik and Fox would still be very annoying. Alas.

 

[Potpourri]

I can't even say if Zelda's THE WORST character in the game because she's one of those characters that can absolutely destroy or get destroyed herself. She doesn't have any horrible matchups besides and , but the fact that they're light makes it a bit easier (Zelda eats light characters for breakfast imho).

Im not denying that she's not low tier though (bottom 5 and maybe even bottom 10 is pushing it though). With some TLC, I feel she can be brought up to at least low-mid.

 

[Nammy12]

Does Ganon even have a combo game besides dthrow to dash attack and Flame Choke reads? Zelda actually has a decent combo game with kill setups if you can read an airdodge.

Frame cancelled dair leads to pretty much everything.

 

[Furret]

Zelda Dthrow to Uair/fair/Bair/nair work from 0-120%

1. Uair doesn't combo and if it does the timing is strict, so airdodge
2. how the hell are you using Fair? and why? Bair comes out faster

I can't even say if Zelda's THE WORST character in the game because she's one of those characters that can absolutely destroy or get destroyed herself. She doesn't have any horrible matchups besides and , but the fact that they're light makes it a bit easier (Zelda eats light characters for breakfast imho).

Im not denying that she's not low tier though (bottom 5 and maybe even bottom 10 is pushing it though). With some TLC, I feel she can be brought up to at least low-mid.

correction Zelda eats rage for breakfast

 

[Lozjam]

Zelda Dthrow to Uair/fair/Bair/nair work from 0-120%

That doesn't make Zelda the better character, also like my good friend Nammy said, Dair cancells combo kill into everything.

Frame cancelled dair leads to pretty much everything.

 

[Macchiato]

Anyone wanna play?

 

[Jaguar360]

And this is what happens when you hatch a Jigglypuff egg.

Dammit Jiggs.

It's 4 Ultimate, obv.

-

I think Yoshi gets cray with customs. Between mobility and recovery, launching Egg Lay gets stupid early gimps.

Yoshi annoys the hell out of me whenever I play him. Something about him just strikes a nerve. And hearing him say "BWAHH" whenever he gets launched doesn't help either.

>When mods start talking **** about your favorite character
:'(

I wonder why? Look at him being all happy.

:D
Dat expression tho. "Welp, back to fun. Wheee!"

 

[Locke 06]

Zard is underrated. That character lives foreeeever and has super armor for days. Jab, grab, sh Nair, flame thrower in neutral is his weakness, but it's not awful. Zard edge guards fox super hard, but fox destroys Zard with jab cancels... He could probably do 4 1-2's on Zard and then dsmash or usmash for kills. Although one mistake in timing means he eats a rock smash.... Iunno. Zard's alright, but I can't see him developing much as the game gets older.

 

[Rizen]

Anyone wanna play?

Sure. Room is up. Do you want customs on?

 

[Macchiato]

Sure.

Make a room sis

 

[Berserker.]

I think Ganondorf is a solid character. Insane damage output, insane KO power, deadly reads, great aerials, and great range. What holds him back is his mobility, and how he deals with being in a disadvantaged state. Did I mention how bad Dorf is once he's at a disadvantage? It's really bad. There's also his mobility which is just bad in general. His neutral is pretty average at best because of these but when he's at an advantage... Oh Gawd.

 

[Soul.]

In theory (Which means it's not 100%), the MU is even. It would have been Pika's favor but the range is definitely an glaring issue here

Yeah the range is an issue. Shulk's nair ignores Thunder Jolt so that's another problem. I would play a Shulk online but idk

 

[Berserker.]

Hyper smash power vision KO'ing Falcon at 0% (Countered his f-smash)

Neat

 

[Furret]

Zard is underrated. That character lives foreeeever and has super armor for days. Jab, grab, sh Nair, flame thrower in neutral is his weakness, but it's not awful. Zard edge guards fox super hard, but fox destroys Zard with jab cancels... He could probably do 4 1-2's on Zard and then dsmash or usmash for kills. Although one mistake in timing means he eats a rock smash.... Iunno. Zard's alright, but I can't see him developing much as the game gets older.

I love playing the reading charizard

 

[Shrokatii]

@ CatRaccoonBL good games! They were quite fun. I hope you got a good sense of Zelda, though I'm not the best at her.

 

[Lozjam]

I think Ganondorf is a solid character. Insane damage output, insane KO power, deadly reads, great aerials, and great range. What holds him back is his mobility, and how he deals with being in a disadvantaged state. Did I mention how bad Dorf is once he's at a disadvantage? It's really bad. There's also his mobility which is just bad in general. His neutral is pretty average at best because of these but when he's at an advantage... Oh Gawd.

The way Ganondorf plays is that he does get juggled very easily, but once you get out of that juggle, he is piped up with rage. Get a single hit in, and that changes the entire tide of battle. You then punsish landing and juggle, and in about 7 hits, the opponent is dead. Ganondorf matches are always the most exciting for that reason.

 

[Meru.]

Actually Zeldas dthrow combos are unDIable and work at all percents.

No I'm very sure you can just DI out of it and 100% sure you can at least airdodge out of them, probably second jump as well.

In other news I JUST UNLOCKED ALL OF ZELDA'S CUSTOMS SOMEONE GIVE ME AN AWARD!!!

*insert gif of someone receiving an award while crying*

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