Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Meru.]

going to be completely real here

give her back her brawl smash attacks and ftilt/dtilt and we'd have a solid mid tier character

She would be better but definitely not mid imo... Zelda needs some serious treatment for the AIDS she has been carrying.

 

[Fuoujin 2]

A lot of people say this, and I mean no disrespect but where are the supposed buffs?

Jab - unchanged
ftilt - nerfed
dtilt - nerfed (still good tho)
utilt - honestly was retooled, i miss being able to kill with it because we have no reliable vertical killers now
dash attack - unchanged

f-smash - nerfed
usmash - gutted
dsmash - nerfed

f/bair - unchanged
uair - nerfed
dair - buffed kinda
nair - nerfed

dins - nerfed
nayrus - retooled
farore's wind - buffed
phantom - technically a nerf since we cant rise 30+ places on the tier list

Dash attack def got nerfed.
And I'd say jab is slightly better, but that might just be me using it more in brawl due to a lack of options

 

[Fuoujin 2]

A lot of people say this, and I mean no disrespect but where are the supposed buffs?

dash attack - unchanged

Dash attack def got nerfed.
And I'd say jab is slightly better, but that might just be me using it more in Brawl due to a lack of options.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Also, F/Bair were nerfed hard with those landing frames. Also, Uair is much easier to land, despite is years weaker now.

 

[Alacion]

Pretty sure Zelda has been buffed in some ways in each game since Melee. They're simply not enough to make Zelda viable but who cares it's all about that Farore's Wind

 

[Fuoujin 2]

This damn proxy keeps making me double post, eaux well. more work for the mod that deletes all my post.

Also, Uair is much easier to land

Gorl....

Pretty sure Zelda has been buffed in some ways in each game since Melee. They're simply not enough to make Zelda viable but who cares it's all about that Farore's Wind

Except this time she has more nerfs than buffs...

I also don't see how d air is much better, it was one of my favorite moves to use in Brawl and I think I was alone in that regard.
It feels pretty much the same, maybe a little weaker?
Or weaker scaling at least?
The sweet spot is easier to land and I guess being able to hit grounded opponents is pretty big.

She would be better but definitely not mid imo... Zelda needs some serious treatment for the AIDS she has been carrying.

Sis AIDS has treatment options and can get better nowadays.

The good sis Zelda is serving stage 4 inoperable cancer and Ebola teas.

 

[Fernosaur]

f/bair - unchanged

Super disagree on this one. One of the WORST changes she got in this game are the nerfs to her aerials. She went from at least having the most powerful side and up airs in the game to having aerials with relatively mediocre knockback in regard to the risk they pose. Not only that, but the ending lag on f/bair is just horrible, it basically makes the moves unusable, sometimes not even as an edgeguard tool.

The only "buff" she got in this game apart from Farore's starting up faster and killing is that you can no longer get edgehogged. But since we discovered that 2 frame window of death on her reappearance from FW we're back to the same issue we had in Brawl. Also, the way they tweaked FW sometimes makes it impossible to properly calculate your trajectory.

People have been saying this is the best Zelda in the official games, but I'm pretty sure it's the worst. And that's saying something.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I meant to say fair Bair was nerfed soz

 

[Fernosaur]

Why can't they copy paste her from Project M? :'D It's unreal how terrible these guys are at making Zelda an actual character instead of a (very slowly) walking gimmick.

 

[M@v]

Well 3.5 Zelda isn't all that great either. Still better than any official smash game Zelda though.

I miss my 4 dins dammit.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Project M Zelda was never amazing, people just weren't used to a character that had a Brawl-esque playstyle.

AKA run away

Edit: i just saw a rat

 

[Fuoujin 2]

Project M Zelda was never amazing, people just weren't used to a character that had a Brawl-esque playstyle.

AKA run away

Edit: i just saw a rat

Did u kill it?

 

[evmaxy54]

Yay fuujin is back my morning is made

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I think brawl Zelda was her strongest character, sm4sh Zelda is an unfinished product. She didn't get play tested enough and is now sitting here with weird properties. She's like a deck of only wild cards all have a use, but all on situations

 

[Oh Snap]

'Till this day I still don't think Zelda deserved her placement in Brawl.

But in Smash 4 I'm thoroughly convinced she's bottom tier. Sad times.

 

[ZombieBran]

A great recovery is a big buff, that should be mentioned more.
The only thing that can save Zelda from bottom tier is a patch. A substantial patch.

My favorite post on Smashboards:

Yaaaas ALL ABOARD the Zeldawful train!!!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Did u kill it?

its too fast >:

 

[Nairo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiUeqvKoi20&list=UU5WNBHwgluAwWJE5QV-5_TA

Yeah I quit using alright yall got me!

 

[ZombieBran]

I respect what you're doing, Nairo.

If you drop her, as Fujin says you will, I wouldn't even blame you. I don't imagine Zelda does any matchups well that Robin and Dark Pit can't already cover. I'd certainly have dropped Zelda by now if I were looking for tourney success. Actually, I wouldn't have picked her up in the first place if that were the case. Since Brawl it has become clear that Sakurai/team have no intentions on making Zelda a balanced character for 1v1.

 

[Nairo]

In this game I use multiple (some that I haven't used in tourney yet but may do so in future tourneys) characters. I am comfortable using Zelda vs some characters and using Robin/Dpit vs some other characters. For example im fine with fighting rosalina with Robin and Zelda so its whoever I feel im doing better with that day. It all comes down to player/character I am going to fight and how the set is going after game 1. If I feel like my dpit can do better than my zelda and robin vs X player, I will use dpit as I'm not entitled to one character the whole tourney lol. That being said any character that I use now I'll always try to keep them on the side at least and not completely drop them because I never know when they can win me a set in the future due to throwing off my opponent/lack of MU knowledge etc. My main has always been Robin from the start, but I also had a zelda that could net me wins almost or as much as Robin. But I guess since I used a different character in a different game and don't use her 100% of the time in this game its understandable being hated on by some i guess lol

 

[Berserker.]

Whoa. This thread's title. lol

Also, Nairo. I got massive respect for you winning with Zelda usually.

 

[evmaxy54]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiUeqvKoi20&list=UU5WNBHwgluAwWJE5QV-5_TA

Yeah I quit using alright yall got me!

2fancy4me

 

[Mocha]

I'm sorry, but Lolno. I'll only give you 5 of those. But let's ask some more Zeldas:
@ KuroganeHammer @ Mocha @Rion @GameAngel64 (Some Zeldas) are any (Or how many) of these chars worse than Zelda?

I think it's too early still to tell who's 'worse' than who, especially when a good chunk of these don't have that much representation yet. Also, it ends up becoming a matter of personal experience and opinion. The supposed tier lists floating around feel more like a list of character usage, rather than an accurate testament as to how much better one character is over the other. Then it also comes down to the skill of the player too, not just the character.

And Nairo's recent Zelda tourney play is fantastic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgys4-SkTWE&list=UU5WNBHwgluAwWJE5QV-5_TA&channel=CLASHTournaments
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiUeqvKoi20&list=UU5WNBHwgluAwWJE5QV-5_TA&channel=CLASHTournaments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiUeqvKoi20&list=UU5WNBHwgluAwWJE5QV-5_TA
Yeah I quit using alright yall got me!

This is amazing. It's like watching a completely different character from the 3DS gameplay (and understandable). Nairo, good stuff out there, and solid Robin too. I hope you keep representing Zelda, despite all the negativity toward her. Keep it up... I definitely want to see how far you can go with Zelda in the future (:

....


also...

This thread title sucks.

 

[BJN39]

^ B-b-but, it's charmin premium. D:

Goooood moorniing!

 

[SBphiloz4]

Thinking about it, really the only things that got buffed from Brawl Zelda to now are FW and Dair. That's it. Some moves like Dtilt and Dthrow are different, but are still pretty good, so it's not necessarily a nerf. Buuuut--

Ftilt has a dead zone. Utilt is really meh. All her smashes got nerfed bad. All her other aerials got the huge nerf hammer with ending lag and less kill potential. Nayru's love, Din's Fire, add those to the list. Let's not talk about Phantom lol. Grab is still really slow and awful. RIP dash attack and pivot grab range. And lol customs. Nerfs across the board, so has she gotten worse? My opinion, no.

The Sm4sh system has partially saved this character from reaching atrocious levels. Honestly, having an auto latch to the ledge when recovering with FW, 2-hit FW OoS option, rage, Dthrow combos (lol) and no meteor cancelling, Zelda at least can show up without getting absolutely laughed at. And having no invincibility after regrabbing the ledge and no ledgehogging, they all help Zelda in some way.

Am I defending that she's good, of course not. Easily a basement dweller in this game... for the 3rd straight franchise. But I'm having a huge blast playing Zelda in this game, a lot more than I had in Brawl and waay more than that of Melee. I would argue that she is better than Brawl Zelda just because of the mechanics, but alas, she's hampered by more nerfs than buffs which kinda baffle me. In the end of the day though, win or lose, she'll always be my favourite character, my toilet paper princess or whatever, and that's all that matters to me. <3

 

[Mocha]

Thinking about it, really the only things that got buffed from Brawl Zelda to now are FW and Dair. That's it. Some moves like Dtilt and Dthrow are different, but are still pretty good, so it's not necessarily a nerf. Buuuut--

Ftilt has a dead zone. Utilt is really meh. All her smashes got nerfed bad. All her other aerials got the huge nerf hammer with ending lag and less kill potential. Nayru's love, Din's Fire, add those to the list. Let's not talk about Phantom lol. Grab is still really slow and awful. RIP dash attack and pivot grab range. And lol customs. Nerfs across the board, so has she gotten worse? My opinion, no.

The Sm4sh system has partially saved this character from reaching atrocious levels. Honestly, having an auto latch to the ledge when recovering with FW, 2-hit FW OoS option, rage, Dthrow combos (lol) and no meteor cancelling, Zelda at least can show up without getting absolutely laughed at. And having no invincibility after regrabbing the ledge and no ledgehogging, they all help Zelda in some way.

Am I defending that she's good, of course not. Easily a basement dweller in this game... for the 3rd straight franchise. But I'm having a huge blast playing Zelda in this game, a lot more than I had in Brawl and waay more than that of Melee. I would argue that she is better than Brawl Zelda just because of the mechanics, but alas, she's hampered by more nerfs than buffs which kinda baffle me. In the end of the day though, win or lose, she'll always be my favourite character, my toilet paper princess or whatever, and that's all that matters to me. <3

Agree with most of this. It's weird because, due to the change in mechanics of this game from Brawl it's like... Brawl Zelda would do better in this game, but Smash 4 Zelda would not do better in Brawl. All she would really have going for her in Brawl is a scary Up B, but even then, that doesn't warrant the strong edge-guarding game that Brawl had. Oh and Phantom if you didn't want to use Sheik.

Smash 4 Zelda wishes she had less laggy aerials, and arguably her Brawl dodges (rolls, air dodge, spot dodge). Like... dodging in this game DOES NOT FEEL SAFE. I feel safer walking/running away than having to commit to dodging <.<

*begin smashes ranting*

As for her smashes in Smash 4... someone told me she plays almost exactly like Brawl Zelda and I wanted to head-desk so hard, I'd have a mark on my forehead for weeks. Just no, she doesn't play at all like Brawl Zelda, especially if we're looking at smashes. Zelda's smashes in Brawl were often regarded as the very essence of Zelda herself. Many people would be surprised she even had another move. In this game, smashes are not only NOT the core part of her gameplay, but none of them so far feel even remotely safe.

Sure, Brawl Zelda's Upsmash had cooldown that could be punished, but this time, we have seemingly less horizontal hitboxes to suck our opponents in, and less knockback/kill potential (imo).

Down smash feels slower and a tad less range, and no longer the move to go to as a GTFO move. Hell, Nayru's Love feels safer to use to punish people behind/rolling behind you than down smash does!

F-smash still has kill potential , and is probably her better smash compared to the other two, but there's no way the cooldown of the move compares to that of Brawl's, where you can fake somebody out with it, and followup with another move, or another f-smash lol. It looks suspiciously more SDI'able too.

/smashes ranting

Again, this just goes back to my point that she doesn't feel at all like Brawl Zelda. Sure, we can try to play LIKE Brawl Zelda, but certain things that used to be safer don't work anymore, and vice versa.

Not sure what you mean by her f-tilt having a dead zone, but I know her Nair has a blind spot and can miss even when in point blank. Nair is such a strange move. It's always been.

 

[BJN39]

I wanna say more, but I'm busy ATM. -_-

To answer you @ Mocha about the 'dead spot' on Ftilt. It's a literal blind spot. Like, wall up to point blank on a skinny-ish char, then walk and Ftilt. It can whiff.

 

[Mocha]

I wanna say more, but I'm busy ATM. -_-

To answer you @ Mocha about the 'dead spot' on Ftilt. It's a literal blind spot. Like, wall up to point blank on a skinny-ish char, then walk and Ftilt. It can whiff.

Oh ok yeah, that's what I thought too when you said dead spot. I think there have been a couple of times where I missed f-tilt on short characters right in front of me lol. But yes, Nair is definitely guilty of this as well. Trust me, I know... being the nair-happy Zelda I was/still kinda am

 

[SBphiloz4]

Yeah, I remember that I almost lost a match because a Ftilt missed at point blank, and got punished for it. Sakurai pls. ; w ;

I guess another thing of why I like Sm4sh Zelda a bit better is that I hated how Brawl Zelda was played, lol. I don't play a super defensive game, so Brawl Zelda was somewhat of a mismatch for me. At least I can go a bit more ****** in this game, haha.

 

[Mocha]

Is d-tilt to a follow up f-tilt a thing? I have not tested this yet, and I'm at work atm. If it is, and we can.... not miss with it, that'd be cool.

 

[BJN39]

Is d-tilt to a follow up f-tilt a thing? I have not tested this yet, and I'm at work atm. If it is, and we can.... not miss with it, that'd be cool.

IDK if it's a true followup, but sometimes people make it work.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Sure, Brawl Zelda's Upsmash had cooldown that could be punished, but this time, we have seemingly less horizontal hitboxes to suck our opponents in, and less knockback/kill potential (imo).

brawl Zelda usmash and utilt made people respect her from above. Sure it could be baited, but only like DDD could drop through her usmash with a dair. Utilt in brawl could trade for kills. Now you don't have to respect her head space anymore because at worst they'll take 6.5% for trying to jump on you >.>

which its great utilt still gives some cover, but its not the same. RIP brawl usmash.

 

[Fuoujin 2]

Is d-tilt to a follow up f-tilt a thing? I have not tested this yet, and I'm at work atm. If it is, and we can.... not miss with it, that'd be cool.

It seems like the most reliable follow up from d tilt, other than grab and another d tilt.
Maybe Nayru's but I use that enough as is so I dont follow up with it.

Is her roll cancel pivot grab thing still worth using?


Also Aero what do you use to record matches?
Is it cheap?

 

[CommanderPepper]

This thread got weird. Anyway I want to go back to Brawl and play Zelda because I never touched her in that game. Why play Zelda when I can be lame with Snake.
Regarding Nairo, keep doing what you do. I don't care if Zelda is your main or not. When I see you play I learn new things about Zelda, so thanks for even playing her. If I play against a Sonic or a Shiek I will switch to Lucina, DPit or Sheik. Smash has the benefit of being able to pickup and understand characters at a quick pace. I may not master all the characters I play but if I can win then I'm cool with that.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I use an elgato

$200

 

[SBphiloz4]

Anyone wanna go for a few Sm4sh matches right now?

 

[Fuoujin 2]

Add me.

NNID: ifujin

I use an elgato

$200

Aero you should get me this for Christmas imo.

 

[M@v]

I think brawl Zelda was her strongest character, sm4sh Zelda is an unfinished product. She didn't get play tested enough and is now sitting here with weird properties. She's like a deck of only wild cards all have a use, but all on situations

Honestly melee version is still the best imo (PM excluded). Kick/dsmash are too good, and actually really reliable in melee. Not to mention she has her best movement of any the games. It may also think this because the best melee Zelda is in my region (theLake)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Add me.

NNID: ifujin



Aero you should get me this for Christmas imo.

I'll get you one if you pay my traffic infringement :D

 

[SBphiloz4]

Fuujin, I'll be online in a sec. Will add you. c:

Aaaaand we'll see who will approach and lose first. ccc: