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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

FullMoon

i'm just joking with you
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I reaaaally want Golurk to show up in Pokkén. If it does it's probably going to be the one character that's super slow that I'm going to try to play with, I just want to play with my Poké mecha.

Though I still would love Greninja, or Hawlucha, or Gallade, or Poliwrath, or Pangoro.

But Lucario is good too. Not really interested in the others.
 

Furret

Long Body Pokémon
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MO
In these forums, I don't know, but elsewhere, there's worse like spammers who don't know anything else than Ness's PKT2 or spamming Kirby's Stone and/or Final Cutter. I swear there's someone out there spamming Fox's Laser thinking it would do anything. Oh, and I have fought someone who only used Lucina's Dancing Blade. It was hilarious and sad.
I spam fox laser... and Fair... I think they're cool....
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
People who spam Link's projectiles don't know how to use him rofl.
Ever heard of jab → down smash? Up throw up air (not guaranteed tho)?

Also, when you're about to land, you think DAir is a good option on Sheik / ZSS / Sonic and everyone else who has a Falcon Kick when it really isn't.
I spam Link's projectiles like my life depends on it if you let me, and I understand how to play Link quite well.~

It's not the quantity of spam that's the issue so much as the effectiveness of the spam.

There's no point in throwing a wall of projectiles if they serve no purpose, there is if they disrupt the opponent though.

I want to spam you with projectiles because that's free chip damage if you let me do it for a bit and because it disrupts your space.

Link is spammy yes, but players who spam his projectiles aren't inherently bad.
 

Fireemblemfreak

Smash Journeyman
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Fixed that for you~
Okay, apparently I'm not as I'm up to it as I thought. I tried to do matches with my friend and kept nearly falling asleep. Apparently, I can barely keep my eyes open during a match. I didn't even feel tired until just now, but I did babysit for 5-6 hours. I'm sorry >.<
 

Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
Everyone knows Machamp is the Brawl Ganon of Pokkén.
I spam Link's projectiles like my life depends on it if you let me, and I understand how to play Link quite well.~

It's not the quantity of spam that's the issue so much as the effectiveness of the spam.

There's no point in throwing a wall of projectiles if they serve no purpose, there is if they disrupt the opponent though.

I want to spam you with projectiles because that's free chip damage if you let me do it for a bit and because it disrupts your space.

Link is spammy yes, but players who spam his projectiles aren't inherently bad.
"ILoseILag" fits projectile spamming pretty well...
Huh. Well if you want to disrupt you might as well use Power Bow or something.
Gale Boomerang is meh.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Everyone knows Machamp is the Brawl Ganon of Pokkén.

"ILoseILag" fits projectile spamming pretty well...
Huh. Well if you want to disrupt you might as well use Power Bow or something.
Gale Boomerang is meh.
*Shrug*

Anything that makes you flinch and stops what you're doing, I don't particularly care how much it does each time it connects if I can make it connect multiple times in a short period.

I'm just fine with the defaults myself, I like Gale Boomerang to push people around.
 

Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
*Shrug*

Anything that makes you flinch and stops what you're doing, I don't particularly care how much it does each time it connects if I can make it connect multiple times in a short period.

I'm just fine with the defaults myself, I like Gale Boomerang to push people around.
I dunno, I think Link is good but at the same time, the projectile spam makes me think he's not very good.
His roll is one of the best I think. Not sure. Apparently Sheik has the best rolls.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Someone found a tech for Falco! YAY! PARTY! PARTY! *party only has like 4 people* :sadeyes:

... Here's a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=ffJebEF8dQs&x-yt-cl=84503534.

Here's where the discovery was mentioned: http://smashboards.com/threads/phantasm-spike.380354/#post-18429161.

I'm going to go drown my sorrows again...


I spam fox laser... and Fair... I think they're cool....
I spam Link's projectiles like my life depends on it if you let me, and I understand how to play Link quite well.~

It's not the quantity of spam that's the issue so much as the effectiveness of the spam.

There's no point in throwing a wall of projectiles if they serve no purpose, there is if they disrupt the opponent though.

I want to spam you with projectiles because that's free chip damage if you let me do it for a bit and because it disrupts your space.

Link is spammy yes, but players who spam his projectiles aren't inherently bad.
I meant more as spamming one move and not knowing how anything works. The average For Glory Ness player only knows 2 things: grab, throw and Fair, Fair, Fair combo or PKT2 spamming. I mean the person who spams nothing but Ike's Quickdraw because they don't know how to use his Nair, Fair, Bair, or even his freaking Jab combo. I mean the player who uses Link's Spin Attack leagues away from the ledge thinking it'll work; it won't. I mean the player who spams Bowser Bomb thinking it will land all the time or the Little Mac who Jolt Haymakers off the ledge. So, the really, really, bad players.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
I dunno, I think Link is good but at the same time, the projectile spam makes me think he's not very good.
His roll is one of the best I think. Not sure. Apparently Sheik has the best rolls.
Projectile Spam doesn't inherently make a character good or bad.

A character being spammy really just makes that character more prone to being harshly stereotyped because all the scrubs do with those characters is spam the projectiles since the projectiles are the major components of their moveset.

You can't really call a character bad just because of how their playstyle was designed though.

A spammy character could be top tier, or could be trash tier, it all depends on the balance of the game and how the other characters can handle that character.

Granted, I won't make the claim that Link (or any spammy character, but I have no idea) is top tier, he still has certain factors that keep him from getting very high, but he's at least not trash tier this time around, which I think is a nice change from the past games.

I'll always main him regardless of his tier standing though.~
 

Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
Someone found a tech for Falco! YAY! PARTY! PARTY! *party only has like 4 people* :sadeyes:

... Here's a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=ffJebEF8dQs&x-yt-cl=84503534.

Here's where the discovery was mentioned: http://smashboards.com/threads/phantasm-spike.380354/#post-18429161.

I'm going to go drown my sorrows again...




I meant more as spamming one move and not knowing how anything works. The average For Glory Ness player only knows 2 things: grab, throw and Fair, Fair, Fair combo or PKT2 spamming. I mean the person who spams nothing but Ike's Quickdraw because they don't know how to use his Nair, Fair, Bair, or even his freaking Jab combo. I mean the player who uses Link's Spin Attack leagues away from the ledge thinking it'll work; it won't. I mean the player who spams Bowser Bomb thinking it will land all the time or the Little Mac who Jolt Haymakers off the ledge. So, the really, really, bad players.
Revelant:
Great, Falco is getting better as the game progresses. Forward throw to Side B is a set up.
Wonder what happened to that "true combo ability" his DAir had.

Projectile Spam doesn't inherently make a character good or bad.

A character being spammy really just makes that character more prone to being harshly stereotyped because all the scrubs do with those characters is spam the projectiles since the projectiles are the major components of their moveset.

You can't really call a character bad just because of how their playstyle was designed though.

A spammy character could be top tier, or could be trash tier, it all depends on the balance of the game and how the other characters can handle that character.

Granted, I won't make the claim that Link (or any spammy character, but I have no idea) is top tier, he still has certain factors that keep him from getting very high, but he's at least not trash tier this time around, which I think is a nice change from the past games.

I'll always main him regardless of his tier standing though.~
Actually, forget about the projectile spam. I've seen some good Link players in Scrub Glory that knew their stuff.
Agree with the rest though.
 

Furret

Long Body Pokémon
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
3,477
Location
MO
I'll always main him regardless of his tier standing though.~
really? even if Nintendo announced Nah tonight and added her to the game tomorrow?

Revelant:
Great, Falco is getting better as the game progresses. Forward throw to Side B is a set up.
Wonder what happened to that "true combo ability" his DAir had.
still has it, but it's very difficult to get the timing down, and you get punished for hitting shields or just failing the technique
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
really? even if Nintendo announced Nah tonight and added her to the game tomorrow?


still has it, but it's very difficult to get the timing down, and you get punished for hitting shields or just failing the technique
Yes.

I would then main Lonk and Nah, and when Mewtwo comes around I would probably drop :4fox:for him, :4fox:being my other character aside from :4link: atm.

:p

If I had to choose only one character, I would take
HnxKDRE.png
though because she is
HnxKDRE.png
.

I <3
HnxKDRE.png
.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Projectile Spam doesn't inherently make a character good or bad.

A character being spammy really just makes that character more prone to being harshly stereotyped because all the scrubs do with those characters is spam the projectiles since the projectiles are the major components of their moveset.

You can't really call a character bad just because of how their playstyle was designed though.

A spammy character could be top tier, or could be trash tier, it all depends on the balance of the game and how the other characters can handle that character.

Granted, I won't make the claim that Link (or any spammy character, but I have no idea) is top tier, he still has certain factors that keep him from getting very high, but he's at least not trash tier this time around, which I think is a nice change from the past games.

I'll always main him regardless of his tier standing though.~
Like Olimar in Brawl? Dude could rack up damage like DPS was rotting. And now we have Duck Hunt who can shut you down, but Duck Hunt still needs to land a kill move or all that damage might bite back because of rage. Technically, even Sheik is spammy since she relies on chaining moves or Mega Man whose play style is based on his Mega Man games and what did you do in Mega Man? Shoot like crazy.

Revelant:
Great, Falco is getting better as the game progresses. Forward throw to Side B is a set up.
Wonder what happened to that "true combo ability" his DAir had.


Actually, forget about the projectile spam. I've seen some good Link players in Scrub Glory that knew their stuff.
Agree with the rest though.
Frame cancel is really strict and unless it's like, Falco, Bowser Jr., Captain Falcon, or Ganondorf, it's not going to be much or that useful. There's someone else too, but I don't remember who. Falco gains a good punish off of Dair if he perfectly lands it. Same with Captain Falcon and he can string two Knees if done right, but Ganondorf gets even better rewards since it's like 19% off of his Dair and another 24% out of Up Smash. That's 43%! Bowser Jr. just loses the issue with Dair's end lag. Still, it's situational and more of a perfect punish rather than regular gameplay, but those are the characters who I know benefit the most out of frame cancels.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Like Olimar in Brawl? Dude could rack up damage like DPS was rotting. And now we have Duck Hunt who can shut you down, but Duck Hunt still needs to land a good kill move or all that damage might bite back because of rage. Technically, even Sheik is spammy since she relies on chaining moves or Mega Man whose play style is based on his Mega Man games and what did you do in Mega Man? Shoot like crazy.
Pardon me if I misinterpreted what you were saying: but I was more specifically talking about the standing of the spammy characters in Smash 4, I know Brawl Olimar is a nasty threat.

Again I have no exact idea, but I didn't think DH was top, at least not right now.

Same for Mega Man.

And as for Sheik, I was more discussing the strict projectile spammers as opposed to spam based off of move spam like F-Tilt -> F-Tilt -> F-Tilt or something.
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
tbh I don't see perfect landings being useful for characters like Falcon/Dorf, since the attacks they're going for with those are high lag moves that will get horribly punished if you don't hit/get shielded and miss the cancel window. If anything I think stuff like knee>knee is just a flashy proof of concept.

It's useful with moves you frequently shff with like ZSS nair or Greninja nair, since they're already lower-risk moves and having your landing lag lowered from 10-12 frames to 0-6 frames still expands on your followup options, or at least makes them easier.
 

Furret

Long Body Pokémon
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Technically, even Sheik is spammy since she relies on chaining moves or Mega Man whose play style is based on his Mega Man games and what did you do in Mega Man? Shoot like crazy.
what if I told you, you jump and shoot
 
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Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
Frame cancel is really strict and unless it's like, Falco, Bowser Jr., Captain Falcon, or Ganondorf, it's not going to be much or that useful. There's someone else too, but I don't remember who. Falco gains a good punish off of Dair if he perfectly lands it. Same with Captain Falcon and he can string two Knees if done right, but Ganondorf gets even better rewards since it's like 19% off of his Dair and another 24% out of Up Smash. That's 43%! Bowser Jr. just loses the issue with Dair's end lag. Still, it's situational and more of a perfect punish rather than regular gameplay, but those are the characters who I know benefit the most out of frame cancels.
Bowser Jr.'s is probably the easiest frame cancel. Maybe I'm wrong. But eh, if it doesn't seem that useful it's kinda pointless to use it.
Yeah, Ganondorf DAir → USmash is godlike but you need to frame cancel it which is a letdown. I barely use the thing—well, no one does...
However, Ganondorf is fine as he is already, so if anything, frame cancels depend on reads.

And....I've been wasting my time playing as other characters in Scrub Glory recently. I need to keep using the lord and savior that is Pikachu.
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Pardon me if I misinterpreted what you were saying: but I was more specifically talking about the standing of the spammy characters in Smash 4, I know Brawl Olimar is a nasty threat.

Again I have no exact idea, but I didn't think DH was top, at least not right now.

Same for Mega Man.

And as for Sheik, I was more discussing the strict projectile spammers as opposed to spam based off of move spam like F-Tilt -> F-Tilt -> F-Tilt or something.
I was more on the design of "spammy" characters. Done right, it's good and it flows with a unique playstyle, but done wrong or something's not taken account of like Sonic's speed, then it can get annoying for players, especially inexperienced ones who might just leave and never come back.

It's like Vergil's limited moveset in DMC3. From a face value, it's not as impressive as Dante who had 5 melee weapons and 5 ranged weapons to choose from and 6 styles; Vergil only had 3 weapons, one of which was a combination of his Yamato and Dante's Rebellion/Force Edge moves from DMC1, 2, and 3, and one ranged weapon. Here's the thing, Yamato's air combo, Aerial Rave, feels like it was designed to abuse the Jump Cancel mechanic, he has Force Edge's Helm Breaker so he can JC it like Dante's Rebellion's/Force Edge's Helm Breaker, and Starfall is just Killer Bee and he can JC that as well. In a way, Vergil's moveset shines and reaches its full potential with JC. Dante could get away from multiple weapons, a large moveset, and multiple ways of approaches, but Vergil's normal combat was tougher to use since he had a smaller moveset.

So, Sheik spamming Fair and Ftilt is part of her game to rack up damage, Link spamming projectiles is a way to limit options and allow him to get in a deal damage, Mega Man's play style was made similar to Mega Man, the same goes to Brawl Olimar who dealt damage through Pikmin, but SSB4 toned it down, and Duck Hunt is like a trapper, zoner character who deals damage through projectiles rather than close up hits.

tbh I don't see perfect landings being useful for characters like Falcon/Dorf, since the attacks they're going for with those are high lag moves that will get horribly punished if you don't hit/get shielded and miss the cancel window. If anything I think stuff like knee>knee is just a flashy proof of concept.

It's useful with moves you frequently shff with like ZSS nair or Greninja nair, since they're already lower-risk moves and having your landing lag lowered from 10-12 frames to 0-6 frames still expands on your followup options, or at least makes them easier.
Still, it's an amazing punish if it happens, especially for Ganondorf who kills in like three reads.
 

WolfieXVII ❂

stay woke
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Okay, apparently I'm not as I'm up to it as I thought. I tried to do matches with my friend and kept nearly falling asleep. Apparently, I can barely keep my eyes open during a match. I didn't even feel tired until just now, but I did babysit for 5-6 hours. I'm sorry >.<
No worries
Today was a bit hectic for me so sorry about the interruptions XD
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
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Yeah, Ganondorf DAir → USmash is godlike but you need to frame cancel it which is a letdown.
Funnily enough, I noticed while practicing it that dair>usmash actually does combo at certain percents without a perfect landing.

I was testing it against Fox though so there's a good chance it's fastfaller specific.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It's fine if you haven't played Pokémon.
Not sure about Jigglypuff.
I wonder if Pokkén will end up being more competitive than Splatoon.
Now that makes me think Pokkén will be the game shown at Apex. :troll:
 

Soul.

 
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Messages
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Now that makes me think Pokkén will be the game shown at Apex. :troll:
I would 100% watch Apex then if that is the case.

Funnily enough, I noticed while practicing it that dair>usmash actually does combo at certain percents without a perfect landing.

I was testing it against Fox though so there's a good chance it's fastfaller specific.
It can combo without frame cancelling it? Well that's interesting.
Even if it's with fastfallers it gives Ganon a way to destroy Fox and company.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I would 100% watch Apex then if that is the case.


It can combo without frame cancelling it? Well that's interesting.
Even if it's with fastfallers it gives Ganon a way to destroy Fox and company.
Meh, I'm not into Pokémon, but the game can't be bad, right? inb4 the Wii U release people have been waiting for.
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
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It can combo without frame cancelling it? Well that's interesting.
Even if it's with fastfallers it gives Ganon a way to destroy Fox and company.
It's only in a really small percent range (36-40% I believe), but yeah.

When I was trying to check it I was getting more PL dairs than not lol, the fact that it happens from the apex of a shorthop for Ganondorf makes it way too easy to do with him.
 

Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
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It's only in a really small percent range (36-40% I believe), but yeah.

When I was trying to check it I was getting more PL dairs than not lol, the fact that it happens from the apex of a shorthop for Ganondorf makes it way too easy to do with him.
You just made me want to try that out lol....wait.
>small percent range
are you serious

Meh, I'm not into Pokémon, but the game can't be bad, right? inb4 the Wii U release people have been waiting for.
Maybe. If they're able to release it on the Wii U, it'll be good for everyone and yeaah, Pokkén in a console.
 

McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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So, you want somebody to be your muse? :p
A lone falcon flies through the desert
A thread of hope that he'll be discovered
For when he reaches out to others
They think of him as lesser

(I could use this)
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
@ Furret Furret , that should be spoiled because of the swear word. Just saying. :p

A lone falcon flies through the desert
A thread of hope that he'll be discovered
For when he reaches out to others
They think of him as lesser

(I could use this)
Falco's actually a pheasant. :p
 
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Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
I've been getting lots of likes on this thread recently.
I'm famous on this thread now.
edit: actually lol forget kappa
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Time to start calling him Pheasan.
I was thinking of Malcolm because of the whole Meta Knight and Marth being "trash tier" now. So, if we need a trio, then they have to have names starting with the same letter, yeah? And no, Meta Knight is not Blue Kirby.


Can I like unsee this?
Baby, why wouldn't you want to see this. :p

I've been getting lots of likes on this thread recently.
I'm famous on this thread now.
edit:
actually lol forget kappa
That or it's just me being me. :p
 
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