Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Berserker.]

idk I just am a lot better with her than marth. I tried with marth and I couldn't. Then I tried Lucina and i got good fast.

You still have to precisely space with both characters and I'm pretty sure Marth gains more reward from this playstyle. Also, the difference between sourspot Marth and Mopcina's knockback is roughly 12.5%. Still ain't worth it

 

[Macchiato]

You still have to precisely space with both characters and I'm pretty sure Marth gains more reward from this playstyle. Also, the difference between sourspot Marth and Mopcina's knockback is roughly 12.5%. Still ain't worth it

Also, don't double post. lol

Idk, I just like Lucina much better.

Also I didn't even double post lol.

 

[Nammy12]

I'm pretty sure there was even a tip in the game about side b meteoring.

 

[Soul.]

I'm pretty sure Marth gains more reward from this playstyle.

Yes, Marth does get rewarded more from that playstyle. Tippers man.

 

[Space Stranger]

Hello. It's just your friendly neighborhood, Space Stranger dropping by.

 

[Berserker.]

Idk, I just like Lucina much better.

Also I didn't even double post lol.

Huh weird... Ah whatever.

Anyway, it all comes down to personal preference. I guess

 

[Ffamran]

So uhhh, footsies are characters using their spacing to outspace (if that's a word lmao) the opponent?

In a way yes. It's a counter without being a Counter (move). I'm going to use boxing as an analogy since it's easier to explain for me. All right, so a boxer has a jab, a straight, a hook, an uppercut, and an overcut. Uppercuts, hooks, overcuts, and straights tend to be more KO moves and damage moves while jabs are more for feints, poking, and feeling out the opponent.

So, if you watch a boxing match, you might notice them jabbing a lot. Jabbing protects your zone, leads into other hits, and just keeps your opponent on edge. If you keep jabbing, though, they're going to notice a pattern and exploit it, but if you don't jab and just stand there, then they will take advantage of you not doing anything and start hitting.

So, Falco has a Ftilt to space and poke people. It has distance and just knocks people back, but it also allows Falco to take advantage or your hitstun to follow up. Likewise, Marth can poke your shield with his Dtilt and follow up.

Footsies and spacing are pressuring both offensively and defensively. A jab can push people back into a corner for a follow-up or it's a way to stop your opponent from closing in on you by jabbing and side-stepping or stepping back. Jabs can feinted by throwing it out there to distract your opponent before you go in with a body shot (a low hook). If they flinch/blink from it, then a boxer will definitely go right in and start wailing on you before backing off if he notices you're going to counter or something.

@ Ffamran I almost forgot to tell you about your input on Shulk, Shulk's b-air is amazing. Like his only moves that I don't use a lot are his u-air and d-air but that might change since I found out you can combo n-air into d-air easily in jump art

I like sneaking in a Bair before landing. Sometimes it works and it's fun, but it's not that easy to pull off and it's noticeable. Like using (Dr.) Mario's Fair and fast-falling it onto people, it's one of those quirks about my play style.

I really want to recommend Peach, and yet at the same time I feel she's so technical that you have to know you want to play her if you're going to commit to learning her.

Otherwise I agree with what @ Berserker. said.

Spoiler

Shulk comment included.

though if you're picking Rosalina I'd rather it be for love of her/puppet characters than just because she's higher on the hypothetical tier list than the others (well, Peach is probably close).


The main problem with Falco now is that poor mobility combined with the blaster nerf adds up to a character that's both bad at approaching and not as good at forcing approaches as he'd like to be. He has good reward per hit, but it isn't on the level of characters like Luigi (combo strings) or Ganondorf.

My main problem isn't that he's bad, but that he just isn't as good as everyone else. I don't deny that it's early in the game's life still and that things could change, but I'm not seeing anything to suggest that he isn't near the bottom so far. Even if the entire cast is good, someone has to be bottom.

Marth's problem is simply that his numbers are worse. Tipper fsmash is disproportionately strong (but substantially lost range), but that's about all that's remarkable in his kit still, and it's a heavy commitment.


this has been a thing since melee lol

But yeah, I get where you're coming from. In a cast of 51 (soon to be 52) characters, it's a given that many characters are going to remain less explored than others.

Kirby's not that good at approaching either, but it's like Falco, Ganondorf, and Kirby rely more on people making mistakes and approaching them to punish them. I've been rushing a lot, but most successful players I've seen use those three are really methodical and calm.

Even if there's a bottom, it won't be like in past games where bottom characters were barely usable or the sin that was Brawl Ganondorf. Everyone's viable, but some are more viable than others. Personally, I don't see Falco being top tier or high tier, but he feels like somewhere in the mid tier, hell, he might be in the middle of the mid tier or somehow he ends up at the top of mid tier or the bottom of mid tier. It's early and characters like Melee Jigglypuff and Brawl Sonic were usually ignored until something happened.

I mean, there are people still placing Ike near the bottom for some reason despite evidence showing he's at least mid tier or upper mid-tier. It's the same with people placing Link and Toon Link at the bottom because tradition or whatnot. Early stuff will have people speculating, exaggerating, underestimating, overestimating, ignoring, focusing, etc.

Falco and Marth (and Kirby?) might end up as fundamentals-based characters who don't have many advantages and just win out of raw skill, but with much more effort than Ganondorf who gets much more than them in like 3 hits. You can't really rush with any of them, they can't really do much to get people to approach them, and they are one of the slower characters in some way.

Edit: For the Falco Phantasm meteoring thing, I meant more like Aether ignoring stages and clipping through them since Falco Phantasm has a hitbox before he grabs the ledge or something... I need to analyze that video more.

 

[Lavani]

You still have to precisely space with both characters and I'm pretty sure Marth gains more reward from this playstyle. Also, the difference between sourspot Marth and Mopcina's knockback is roughly 12.5%. Still ain't worth it

It's funny, on most attacks sourspot Marth vs Lucina's normal damage the damage difference is mere decimals too, but Marth's safer on shield anyway because of the lower hitlag.

Even if you hit sour with Marth every hit in the match but tipper a killing blow, Marth's still doing more for you than Lucina anyway.

Huh weird... Ah whatever.

Don't let him trick you!

 

[Deleted member]

Hello. It's just your friendly neighborhood, Space Stranger dropping by.

Welcome aboard to the NEW Social Thread!

 

[Macchiato]

Honestly Lucina's tier listing and Metagame depends on Marth. If Marth's meta improves, so will hers probably.

If Marth is high, then shes probably mid
If marths mid, then shes probably low.

See my Logic?

 

[Xys]

Honestly Lucina's tier listing and Metagame depends on Marth. If Marth's meta improves, so will hers probably.

If Marth is high, then shes probably mid
If marths mid, then shes probably low.

See my Logic?

You should main the question mark.

 

[Berserker.]

I like sneaking in a Bair before landing. Sometimes it works and it's fun, but it's not that easy to pull off and it's noticeable. Like using (Dr.) Mario's Fair and fast-falling it onto people, it's one of those quirks about my play style.

B-air is best used instantly off a jump or off from n-air for KO'ing off stage

 

[Soul.]

Hello. It's just your friendly neighborhood, Space Stranger dropping by.

Do I need to post this again?

sry im not sry.

In a way yes. It's a counter without being a Counter (move). I'm going to use boxing as an analogy since it's easier to explain for me. All right, so a boxer has a jab, a straight, a hook, an uppercut, and an overcut. Uppercuts, hooks, overcuts, and straights tend to be more KO moves and damage moves while jabs are more for feints, poking, and feeling out the opponent.

So, if you watch a boxing match, you might notice them jabbing a lot. Jabbing protects your zone, leads into other hits, and just keeps your opponent on edge. If you keep jabbing, though, they're going to notice a pattern and exploit it, but if you don't jab and just stand there, then they will take advantage of you not doing anything and start hitting.

So, Falco has a Ftilt to space and poke people. It has distance and just knocks people back, but it also allows Falco to take advantage or your hitstun to follow up. Likewise, Marth can poke your shield with his Dtilt and follow up.

Footsies and spacing are pressuring both offensively and defensively. A jab can push people back into a corner for a follow-up or it's a way to stop your opponent from closing in on you by jabbing and side-stepping or stepping back. Jabs can feinted by throwing it out there to distract your opponent before you go in with a body shot (a low hook). If they flinch/blink from it, then a boxer will definitely go right in and start wailing on you before backing off if he notices you're going to counter or something.

Let me get this straight, you poke (or footsie) the opponent by using a move that can reach them WHILE (lol caps) you're in this part of the stage and the opponent is in another one?

 

[Ffamran]

Do I need to post this again?

sry lol.


Let me get this straight, you poke (or footsie) the opponent by using a move that can reach them WHILE (lol caps) you're in this part of the stage and the opponent is in another one?

It's called a ring. A boxing ring.

If an opponent approaches you, you're probably going to want him to back off or hit him in some way. If you're going for defensive route, then it's more spacing where you hit back and get a breather. Whether that's using Mega Man's Jab or Metal Saw or Yoshi's Nair, it's all up to you. Offensively, you're going to follow up after that. Games begin in neutral and fighters feel each other out before fighting for the advantage. I don't know how to explain this further...

 

[Macchiato]

This needs to be DLC

 

[kaazers]

You know you love us.
We're your trolls, after all.

...

True... you guys are, actually, ahaha.

Someone save meeee.

 

[Nammy12]

Let me get this straight, you poke (or footsie) the opponent by using a move that can reach them WHILE (lol caps) you're in this part of the stage and the opponent is in another one?

I feel like guide explains it very well.
http://shoryuken.com/2014/07/07/lea...ng-games-with-our-free-beginners-guide-ebook/
(Yes its based on SF but it applies to nearly all fighting games.)

 

[Deleted member]

You know you love us.
We're your trolls, after all.

Amen to this ^o^ @ kaazers You know we're your best friends. DON'T DENY IT.



YOU LOVE US

 

[Twili]

This needs to be DLC

I agree, a new main for @ Metalbro
I'm kind of sorry :'D

...

True... you guys are, actually, ahaha.

Someone save meeee.

No one can save you now.

 

[Soul.]

I feel like guide explains it very well.
http://shoryuken.com/2014/07/07/lea...ng-games-with-our-free-beginners-guide-ebook/
(Yes its based on SF but it applies to nearly all fighting games.)

>footsie
>controlling space

Okay. That's all you need to do. Control space.
Thanks based Shoryuken.

 

[Metalbro]

:C

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Honestly Macchiato, the character you're going to do best with is the character you like the most. Just pick whoever you enjoy using the most and you'll be successful. Good luck

 

[kaazers]

Amen to this ^o^ @ kaazers You know we're your best friends. DON'T DENY IT.

YOU LOVE US

Good thing I fight for my friends.

I agree, a new main for @ Metalbro
I'm kind of sorry :'D

No one can save you now.

DAT. DORA.

:C

Oooh snapp.

edit; Actually, I wonder, as an Ike main, what I'm doing here.... but considering how half of the people here don't even seem to main Zelda...

 

[Lavani]

Honestly Macchiato, the character you're going to do best with is the character you like the most. Just pick whoever you enjoy using the most and you'll be successful. Good luck

The hard part is when you like multiple characters.

If I were to go through the cast members I have emotional attachment to, I'd be looking at:


but I only play (only character I could keep a win rate above 80% with for the first months) (no attachment to the character, but I like how he plays) and (sucked horribly at her in 1.0.0, but she suddenly started clicking with me recently and is now my main). It helps that I suck with a lot of characters to narrow down my choices, but I still think about trying to learn every so often.

It bugs me in particular that I can't play or in this game, considering I played them in previous ones. Then again I never had usable online play or anyone competent to play against so I was probably always bad at them and never knew lol

dear god that is a lot of emotes

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

The hard part is when you like multiple characters.

If I were to go through the cast members I have emotional attachment to, I'd be looking at:


but I only play (only character I could keep a win rate above 80% with for the first months) (no attachment to the character, but I like how he plays) and (sucked horribly at her in 1.0.0, but she suddenly started clicking with me recently and is now my main). It helps that I suck with a lot of characters to narrow down my choices, but I still think about trying to learn every so often.

I currently play six characters (/) so I get that it's difficult to decide. I have an attachment to Peach, Link, Lucina, and every Pokemon character, but their playstyles just don't suit me. You simply have to narrow it down to the ones you have feelings for as a character, but you also like to play as. You'll know who that is when they just click with you. Also, I'd say that if you want to try and learn those few other characters, go for it! No reason not to. mfw you don't play zeldawful tho, and yay emotes

 

[Lavani]

mfw you don't play zeldawful tho

I learned my lesson after Melee and Brawl.

I almost took the bait again when I learned about Farore reappear being a KO move and when I saw the Phantom downB and expected it to be good (lmao), but I stayed strong!

 

[Deleted member]

This needs to be DLC

Well this just made my day. Viacom joins Sega, Capcom, and Bandai Namco on the non-Nintendo character battle.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Well this just made my day. Viacom joins Sega, Capcom, and Bandai Namco on the non-Nintendo character battle.

Project X Zone 2 confirmed?!

 

[SBphiloz4]

TFW you never played PM for such a long time, and you randomly decide to make a casual tourney with friends in it. Didn't have Smash 4, and Brawl didn't have all the characters so.... ;ccccc

But using Ganondorf, and L-cancel 50% of the time + random wavedashing when they are fullscreen away is epic lolz. D-throw chain grab for daaaayz. They didn't know how to DI, so GG them. And didn't know how to use Zelda for the love of my life. But the tourney without losing a set.
BRB never touching that game ever again. Sm4sh is where it's at, with our bottom tier . :^)

 

[Soul.]

Back when these games were announced I thought of maining Yoshi but lol I don't have the interest anymore. Now I just use Pika. What is a good secondary for Pika anyways?

 

[SBphiloz4]

Back when these games were announced I thought of maining Yoshi but lol I don't have the interest anymore. Now I just use Pika. What is a good secondary for Pika anyways?

If you're thinking about something to cover Pikachu's weak MUs, probably need someone to beat Rosalina or Yoshi? IDK much about Pikachu, but on paper, they seem to be somewhat unfavourable MUs, but don't take my word for it. If it's just for fun, then it's up to you.

For instance myself, my secondaries/tertiaries really aren't very good (minus Zero Skill Spamus smh), I just use them for fun. I (unfortunately) go all Zelda most of the time. ccc

 

[Deleted member]

Project X Zone 2 confirmed?!

inb4 videos would be taken down due to complaints by Viacom though.

 

[Lavani]

Back when these games were announced I thought of maining Yoshi but lol I don't have the interest anymore. Now I just use Pika. What is a good secondary for Pika anyways?

Who does Pikachu actually lose to?

 

[Ffamran]

Who does Pikachu actually lose to?

Ground-types.

 

[Soul.]

Who does Pikachu actually lose to?

Not quite sure. I keep hearing it loses to Lord Diddy, possibly even with Sheik, I don't know about Sonic (that's if he's top tier material, which I don't think so), Mario seems hard, dunno about Luigi, Yoshi seems like it's also hard. Sword characters also seem hard.
Correct me if I'm wrong though. Not that into the matchup side of things.

 

[Lavani]

Correct me if I'm wrong though. Not that into the matchup side of things.

My problem is more that I know next to nothing about Pikachu in this game, aside from watching esam and these last two matches in this vid. From my side of things, all I know is he's hell for Dedede/Meta Knight, tough for Greninja, and REALLY ANNOYING for Rosalina because he's too short for her godly jab to hit.

I was mostly just wondering because if you're looking for a secondary, you'd logically want them to cover Pikachu's problem matchups. I could probably see where Yoshi is an issue, but I don't think anyone flat-out beats Yoshi so I still can't really suggest anything lol

Boy I sure am helpful.

 

[Rizen]

This needs to be DLC

Planker no planking. Spammer no spamming.

 

[Soul.]

My problem is more that I know next to nothing about Pikachu in this game, aside from watching esam and these last two matches in this vid. From my side of things, all I know is he's hell for Dedede/Meta Knight, tough for Greninja, and REALLY ANNOYING for Rosalina because he's too short for her godly jab to hit.

I was mostly just wondering because if you're looking for a secondary, you'd logically want them to cover Pikachu's problem matchups. I could probably see where Yoshi is an issue, but I don't think anyone flat-out beats Yoshi so I still can't really suggest anything lol

Boy I sure am helpful.

Lol I knew Pika had problems with Dedede. Didn't know it lost to MK tho....or is it the opposite?
Good thing it has an advantage against Rosalina. Eh.

Of course I would want to cover its bad matchups. The matchup thread on the Pika boards is very desolate though, so I dunno. Thanks for helping anyways.

 

[Lavani]

Lol I knew Pika had problems with Dedede. Didn't know it lost to MK tho....or is it the opposite?
Good thing it has an advantage against Rosalina. Eh.

Of course I would want to cover its bad matchups. The matchup thread on the Pika boards is very desolate though, so I dunno. Thanks for helping anyways.

I meant he beats all those characters. Thunder Jolt, Quick Attack, and Pika's general speed and combo/juggle ability just shut Dedede down and out so hard, it's one of Dedede's hardest matchups imo. It's actually the matchup that made me start learning other characters lol. Likewise I've heard mentions from the better MK players that Pikachu is likely MK's hardest matchup as well.

Some brief searches through some threads suggest Yoshi's worst matchup is Sheik, make of that what you will.

 

[Latte]

So anyways! Would you recommend Bravely Default, gorl? The husbando says it's really really good but I can't get past the ugly interface design.

Its story is your typical RPG story. The characters are fairly typical as well, though their interactions with eachother are cute and fun to watch. I adore the art and music in the game; that's definitely one of its strongest points. The job system is extremely fun to experiment with; it's similar to Final Fantasy Tactic's job system. The battles are very fun too. The boss battles in particular.

As far as the pay-to-win thing goes, it is completely optional, and it adds nothing to the game. On top of that, they don't parade it in front of your face, which is how p2w things usually go.

I love love love love love this game--or rather, I would love this game if it weren't for a certain chapter that completely ruined the experience for me and has made me stop playing it for months. I have no doubt I'll start playing it again and fall in love with it once more, but for now I'm kind of in a love-hate relationship with it.