Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Cress!]

Theory bust! They are not the same user.

I just want @secretkpop to come back. :/
@secretkpop @secretkpop @secretkpop !!!

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@secretkpop

Spoiler

@secretkpop

Spoiler

Shoutouts to Flavius

 

[Flavius]

I just want @secretkpop to come back. :/
@secretkpop @secretkpop @secretkpop !!!

Spoiler

@secretkpop

Spoiler

@secretkpop

Spoiler

Shoutouts to Flavius

I see you gave me a shout out. Aw, isn't that nice...

btw, it's not a secret when it says "PK21 tagged you in a post"

 

[Gay Ginger]

Can I ask why you are alway posting about your social justice stuff? I will defend your right to say whatever you want, but honestly at this point I'm curious why you keep bringing this kinda stuff up when it never ends in a good time.

Because I find it really interesting, and others on the forum have expressed interest in various topics that I've posted about.

If you're not interested in it, just ignore it -- you don't have to click on the links.

I love learning, and I like sharing what I learn and find with others who might also enjoy it. If even one other person here reads something I post and thinks "hey that was kind of interesting, I enjoyed reading about that" then it was worth it.

And people often get into more heated discussions about the game than about stuff I post lol.

 

[KarmaCastle]

Hi, person that labs stuff and stares at frame data for hours a day here. If it really does still have vulnerability I'd like to know where it is, because a smart bomb on the ledge apparently isn't big enough to catch it.

The corners of ledges are weird and send teleports straight up if you hit them just right, regardless of what direction you go at it from. Amusingly I saw it happen to a Zelda I ran into on FG last night where she teleported diagonally down to the ledge then the camera zoomed back out to show her reappearing close to where she started from.

I just tested it on the WII U and got rekt by the bomb. I'll upload a gif, one sec.

AHAH!

It varies depending on if you get the magnet hands. If you're at a maximum distance, you have the vulnerability for the 'magnet hands' (where you obviously weren't at the ledge but you snap anyways.)

So aside from directly above, any of the other degrees between the vertical and horizontal plane can occasionally leave you vulnerable.

I was wondering why it was sometimes hitting and sometimes missing me.

 

[Ffamran]

It's... It's even worse than I thought... Zelda's Nair takes 4 more frames to recover than Falco's... Zelda's recovery frames are 35 to Falco's 31. So, not only does it take 3 frames longer to start, from Falco's 3 to Zelda's 6, it does inconsistent damage - don't really know if the back hitboxes can lead into anything - while Falco's does 11% total back or front, and has 4 more frames of landing. Pros to Zelda's Nair? Has slightly better auto-cancel windows of before 4 and after 38 vs. Falco's before 3 and after 43, hits 5 times instead of 4, each of her hits "refresh" after 4 frames instead of Falco's weird **** hit 1 to 2 takes 2 frames, hit 2 to 3 takes 5 frames, and hit 3 to hit 4 takes 6 frames, Zelda's Nair has better knockback growth by 30 front and 10 back to Falco's 130 which might not really mean a lot when Falco's last hit does 4% to Zelda's 3%, and it's disjointed, right? Oh, wait, they increased Falco's hitbox sizes and I should test this, but his last hit is noticeably disjointed. The consequences of just adding auto-link angles to Falco's Nair more or less makes it a "better" Zelda Nair even after taking away 1% from it. All these little numbers add up and they're hurting Zelda.

TL;DR: Buff Zelda. Oh, and so far, her lowest recovery is Dair at 20 frames. I know that jab and Dtilt probably have lower recoveries, but that's so far at what I'm at. Fun fact: Ryu's light Utilt only has 8 frames of recovery. No wonder he can lock the hell out of people.

 

[r_greening1]

Gorls

Spoiler: Story Time!

So for today, me and my coworkers danced to one of 's songs for half an hour and still could not get ANY part of the dance down. It was kinda like watching an FG Falcon dash grab; you can tell what he's trying to do, but he can never really get it.

I also told my friend that I'm going to try to place in the Top 3 at my local with and that I'm going to try to be the best in my region.

Spoiler: his reaction

 

[SBphiloz4]

Any gorls want shoutouts on my YouTube channel? Just added a few external links to some gorls' channels on my sidebar~

Added @D3RK, @KuroganeHammer, Rizen , KarmaCastle , and Cress! so far. If you gorls want me to share your YT channels let me know~

 

[TTTTTsd]

Any gorls want shoutouts on my YouTube channel? Just added a few external links to some gorls' channels on my sidebar~

Added @D3RK, @KuroganeHammer, Rizen , KarmaCastle , and Cress! so far. If you gorls want me to share your YT channels let me know~

Share mine gorl! I'm relatively active-ish! Smash **** goes on here along other stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC77WgEuX0B2OWTcCuqv-mqg

 

[SBphiloz4]

Share mine gorl! I'm relatively active-ish! Smash **** goes on here along other stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC77WgEuX0B2OWTcCuqv-mqg

Ayyyy will add

Although I only have 90 subs, haha. Won't get that much traffic but worth a mention~

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ayyyy will add

Although I only have 90 subs, haha. Won't get that much traffic but worth a mention~

My channel has so much random garbo on it BUT SOMETIMES INFORMATIVE SMASH STUFF MAYBE. There's like, bad fanfic readings, rom corruptions, zany ****.....

What a variety show I do! I wish I saved the replay of me getting a ****ing Jab kill when Zard was at like 23% off the Smashville platform vs. EODM.

Legit, I did rapid jab and I had rage and we were near the edge on the plat, and he shield dropped and the end part hit him. He was at 20%. He died. I died IRL

 

[Rizen]

At some point I tried to make a gaming youtube channel. Then a bunch of stuff irl happened and I couldn't keep up with it. Now I just upload smash replays every now and then.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzImTgcezo2GjH4BpzAuRfA/videos

 

[KarmaCastle]

@SBPhiloz , think it'd be possible to edit together clips using Windows Movie Maker?

I had a friend help edit my Mewtwo clip, but it got me interested in making ledge cancel montages and other shenanigans. (Just today I was on BAN•FIGHTING-RING and my FW got flung, but it actually flung Link with me as it shot me into him and we died in eachother's arms).

Editing software is harrrrdddd.

Edit: Side note, don't search SBPhiloz WITHOUT THE 4 on youtube. I got a beautiful page with thumbnails titled "Do I have Syphilis?"

 

[Ffamran]

Today I learned that Samus has 89 total frames for her pivot grab which leads to 61 recovery frames... ZSS's pivot grab only has 79 total frames for her pivot grab and 50 recovery frames which is the same as Toon Link's. I don't know who I should be sad for now: Samus for having a full second window to punish her if she misses and that's she's a slow-moving character, so it's even worse or both because such total frames exist for grabs. Also, I learned that Yoshi's dash and pivot grabs are much faster than his standing grab.

 

[SBphiloz4]

@SBPhiloz , think it'd be possible to edit together clips using Windows Movie Maker?

I had a friend help edit my Mewtwo clip, but it got me interested in making ledge cancel montages and other shenanigans. (Just today I was on BAN•FIGHTING-RING and my FW got flung, but it actually flung Link with me as it shot me into him and we died in eachother's arms).

Editing software is harrrrdddd.

Edit: Side note, don't search SBPhiloz WITHOUT THE 4 on youtube. I got a beautiful page with thumbnails titled "Do I have Syphilis?"

Idk I use iMovie and despite it being really dumb, it's at least better than Windows Movie Maker

And my name is confirmed to leave scarring impressions if you get it wrong, so get it right nerds.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Today I learned that Samus has 89 total frames for her pivot grab which leads to 61 recovery frames... ZSS's pivot grab only has 79 total frames for her pivot grab and 50 recovery frames which is the same as Toon Link's. I don't know who I should be sad for now: Samus for having a full second window to punish her if she misses and that's she's a slow-moving character, so it's even worse or both because such total frames exist for grabs. Also, I learned that Yoshi's dash and pivot grabs are much faster than his standing grab.

You can be happy for Samus because this is the best her grab has ever been in Smash period.

Yes, I'm serious.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I've been putting a lot lot lot lot lot lot lot of effort into Zelda lately and I'm honestly feeling REALLY hopeful.

I think @|ven| is right. She's fine. The negativity around her, including her own playerbase, really hazes things up.

She's certainly not SS tier, but I do think if someone commits to her with an incredible amount of persistence [and consistency] she can do amazing things.

Ven placing top 5 in a fairly high scene (outside of cali and florida anyways) should showcase what she can do, especially because he ONLY plays her.

How many of us are consistently ledge AND platform cancelling? How many people knew we can frame trap on platforms with dthrow to (99.99% guaranteed without aiming) lightning kicks, regardless of if they tech it? Who's actually practiced din's fire to frame trap into fsmash or an Lkick? What about approaching with SH Air Dodge Bair? (Okay that one's actually mega hard to land on a mobile guy but I managed to get the Doctor with it as I was ting this :D ). How often are you getting the falling nair to true combo elevator?

Macchiato is the only Zelda I've seen consistently use love jumps.

@Suicidal_Donuts is the only Zelda who works breversed phantoms into his gameplay as a core part of it.

It's true that every Zelda is different, but if the mains combined all of these tools and used them at the right moments Zelda turns into an absolute beast. Slippery (momentum shifts, nerfed love jump, ledge cancels), KOs extremely early.

We have a reflector. Arguably one of the best in the game for it's versatility and intangibility and 11 free damage. FW is easily the best recovery in the game, and one of the scariest KO moves to boot. Pretty much everything outside of dtilt/jab/NL can kill. Out of the remaining moves, about a fourth can KO around the 50-60% range on almost anyone with rage. Dsmash is ridiculously fast, usmash is like what, one of the top 3 or 4 in the game? Dair is one of the top 5 or 6 spikes as well.

We have almost-true combos for up to 58% damage varying on height/weight and fall categories. Nair is actually a pretty good move since it'll 50/50 clash with almost anything with all it' weird transcending multihit nonsense.

All we lack is frame date, but imagine for a moment just how ridiculous Zelda would be if she had some on par frame data. Like, damn.

I still want buffs, of course. But hopefully you get the point. Some MUs suck. Sheik (literally everyone) and Sanic and the like. Still.

The only time Zelda is actually frightening is when its an Amiibo. She is basically an A Tier Threat when everything she does is perfect. Zelda is centered around being a mix of precision, keep away, and pure power. If all of your tactics land and are successful, congratulations, Zelda is probably winning and making the opponent cry. But we're human. We will mess up. And messing up any of Zelda's tactics opens her up to a free punish and instantly forfeits any space she was trying to control. It can even lead to an SD. Further more, most of her kill power is nullified with proper DI (which is easy to do thanks to freeze frames on Fair/Bair and multi-hits delaying the final hit for Fsmash/Usmash) and staying midstage. Which again, is also easy because Zelda is sooooooo slooooooooow.

So Zelda is the only character of her type. She is frightening when perfect and is easily viable... In theory. But things aren't perfect in game. Spacing isn't perfect. Pinpoint accuracy 100% of the time isn't perfect. People aren't perfect. Outcomes aren't perfect. If one of those things stops being perfect, she forfeits whatever momentum she had. Which is very valuable for someone so slow with awful harassment options. Ultimately she is all risk and no safety. Which is kinda ironic considering she's supposed to be the wisest being... Um... Here I thought playing it safe would be wise. Clearly Villager took her Triforce of Wisdom, because he/she sure knows what being safe is like while still having powerful kill options.

Zelda requires something to make her viable without needing to be perfect. Her core concept is what makes her flawed (precision, glass cannon, sloooooooow), which unfortunately sprinkles the fail all over her entire moveset. Now if she had true combos past 60%, she'd be slightly better. If she had more speed, she'd be better. If she had safer moves (like maybe a faster Usmash since it wouldn't be as OP as a speedy Fsmash/better tilts/reliable grab combos), she'd be significantly better.


TL;DR the only way Zelda is going anywhere is with a very skilled player. One who perfectly executes her SURPRISE! techniques (FW canceling for example). And of course one who can react with perfect timing when the opponent is approaching/not falling for a single baiting attempt. In the mean time, feel free to easily destroy FFA/Team matches with Zelda.

 

[Meru.]

The only time Zelda is actually frightening is when its an Amiibo. She is basically an A Tier Threat when everything she does is perfect. Zelda is centered around being a mix of precision, keep away, and pure power. If all of your tactics land and are successful, congratulations, Zelda is probably winning and making the opponent cry. But we're human. We will mess up. And messing up any of Zelda's tactics opens her up to a free punish and instantly forfeits any space she was trying to control. It can even lead to an SD. Further more, most of her kill power is nullified with proper DI (which is easy to do thanks to freeze frames on Fair/Bair and multi-hits delaying the final hit for Fsmash/Usmash) and staying midstage. Which again, is also easy because Zelda is sooooooo slooooooooow.

So Zelda is the only character of her type. She is frightening when perfect and is easily viable... In theory. But things aren't perfect in game. Spacing isn't perfect. Pinpoint accuracy 100% of the time isn't perfect. People aren't perfect. Outcomes aren't perfect. If one of those things stops being perfect, she forfeits whatever momentum she had. Which is very valuable for someone so slow with awful harassment options. Ultimately she is all risk and no safety. Which is kinda ironic considering she's supposed to be the wisest being... Um... Here I thought playing it safe would be wise. Clearly Villager took her Triforce of Wisdom, because he/she sure knows what being safe is like while still having powerful kill options.

Zelda requires something to make her viable without needing to be perfect. Her core concept is what makes her flawed (precision, glass cannon, sloooooooow), which unfortunately sprinkles the fail all over her entire moveset. Now if she had true combos past 60%, she'd be slightly better. If she had more speed, she'd be better. If she had safer moves (like maybe a faster Usmash since it wouldn't be as OP as a speedy Fsmash/better tilts/reliable grab combos), she'd be significantly better.


TL;DR the only way Zelda is going anywhere is with a very skilled player. One who perfectly executes her SURPRISE! techniques (FW canceling for example). And of course one who can react with perfect timing when the opponent is approaching/not falling for a single baiting attempt. In the mean time, feel free to easily destroy FFA/Team matches with Zelda.

Sorry but I strongly disagree. Sure, Zelda is strong when played optimally but what character isnt? I find optimal Sheik, Fox, ZSS, Peach, Rosalina, Yoshi, Ryu and a looot of other characters way scarier than optimal Zelda. Besides, precision doesnt just mean the attacks her attacks are harder to do. There are real limitations on them that cannot be overcome even with skill. Her lightnin kicks can only be sweetspotted on the first frame when their hitbox is out, which means you have to stand at sweetspot range right from the beginning, in other words you cant Fair/Bair and THEN move to your opponent like characters with lingering hitboxes can, because you will hit with the sourspot that comes on the later frame. Precision doesnt solve the problem. Besides, who is gonna hit by her UpB or any other of her moves for that matter in optimal play? And even if you do land a hit, her pressure game is so weak relative to other characters, with optimal landings youre not going to start anything, since the opponent has to **** up in order for her to get anything.

TL;DR When played perfectly Zelda becomes an A tier threat but other chars become SSSSS+GodzillaIsANewbMasterHandIsMy***** Tier threats.

Your Amiibo probably does well because of the stats that come at level 50. My Amiibo Peach's Fair puts King Kong to shame.

 

[Ffamran]

Apparently, Greninja has the lowest recovery for standing grab at 13. The closest to this as far as I know are Duck Hunt and Jigglypuff's 19. Yeah... It might be slow as sin compared to theirs, but Greninja's 13 frames of recovery on a frame 14 st. grab is to die for when other frame 14 grabs as far as I know are in the upper +40 recovery frames.

Zelda-related: her lowest recovery moves are jab at 10, Ftilt and Dtilt at 13, Dair at 20, Utilt and st. grab at 26, and dash attack and Side Smash at 29. Everything else goes into +30. Funny, Side Smash's low recovery could make it a move to use in neutral despite how dumb people would think it would be.

 

[Baskerville]

You can be happy for Samus because this is the best her grab has ever been in Smash period.

Yes, I'm serious.

Oh...
Ohhhhhh Damn

 

[Lil Puddin]

Your Amiibo probably does well because of the stats that come at level 50. My Amiibo Peach's Fair puts King Kong to shame.

The Amiibo is scary because of the perfection, not the attack boosting. I was talking about the Amiibo lovely way of reading buttons and performing everything with perfect frame accuracy. No technique is a goof from an Amiibo. So Zeldiibo is what Zelda could be if used 100% perfectly. The thing she does, however, is bait people to come to her - as is her most effective playstyle. She intercepts all approaches - as is the only way to use her effectively. She punishes with SH LKs - as it is her strongest move and quickest to position if she's towards the ledge.

So...

1) Perfectly reflecting everything or perfect shielding everything, so the opponent has to approach.

2) Reading perfectly to not get attacked, using tilts or smashes/SH Nairs/Naryus/grabs to intercept.

3) Always aiming LKs with 100% accuracy when someone does something punishable near the ledge.

So. Since that's not happening. Especially against super safe characters like ZSS or Shiek. That's totally why she's FFA/team material. It's, like, the nice way to say "you suck at everything but hey, at least THIS gives you a chance now!"

My beef with FFA/teams used to balance characters is that a great 1v1 character can be just as great in FFA/teams. But characters balanced with FFA/Teams in mind (Palutena, Shulkkinda, Zelda, Ganondork) will be pretty crappy in 1v1. Meaning it would require immense effort/reading/skill on the player's part to make the character viable. I'm not sure if the developers understand that or not... I'm pretty sure they do not.

ZSS great 1v1, great 2v2 (unless her partner is dead, then she's probably dead after some fighting)
Zelda awful 1v1, really great 2v2 (unless her partner is dead, then she is dead within the blink of an eye)

o gee, may b i will uze da char who is acshully gud in evrithin bcuz duuuuuuuuh

 

[Dinoman96]

I think Palutena was more designed around "Customs ON" rather than just vanilla FFAs.

 

[Flavius]

Any gorls want shoutouts on my YouTube channel? Just added a few external links to some gorls' channels on my sidebar~

Added @D3RK, @KuroganeHammer, Rizen , KarmaCastle , and Cress! so far. If you gorls want me to share your YT channels let me know~

Could you add my YouTube channel too gorl. I'd really appreciate it . I'm TheEdgyOne there as well.

 

[EODM07]

Afternoon girls. How's everyone doing?

Just had my breakfast since I got up a bit late today. And I just played one of the new Super Mario Maker Event Levels, I now got the Super Mario Kun Costume.

I'd try and get the Fighter Fly costume from beating Gnat Attack Hard Mode, but I don't want to lose my wrist. :V

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

 

[FullMoon]

Apparently, Greninja has the lowest recovery for standing grab at 13. The closest to this as far as I know are Duck Hunt and Jigglypuff's 19. Yeah... It might be slow as sin compared to theirs, but Greninja's 13 frames of recovery on a frame 14 st. grab is to die for when other frame 14 grabs as far as I know are in the upper +40 recovery frames.

Zelda-related: her lowest recovery moves are jab at 10, Ftilt and Dtilt at 13, Dair at 20, Utilt and st. grab at 26, and dash attack and Side Smash at 29. Everything else goes into +30. Funny, Side Smash's low recovery could make it a move to use in neutral despite how dumb people would think it would be.

Huh. I didn't know Greninja's grab had so little endlag compared to the other ones.

I really have to wonder what was the logic behind the way his standing grab works. It's slower than some tethers while not having the range but it also has very low endlag, what was the intention behind it? lol

 

[Symphonia]

gorls story time,
I made a program in C++ where you type in a statement and it returns it to you backwards
I typed in "BAN ZELDA"
The Program returned a bunch of smiley faces
the computer has become aware of Zelda's Trashyness
BAN*ZELDA

She may be trashy, but at least she's sassy

Spoiler

 

[Jaguar360]

Any gorls want shoutouts on my YouTube channel? Just added a few external links to some gorls' channels on my sidebar~

Added @D3RK, @KuroganeHammer, Rizen , KarmaCastle , and Cress! so far. If you gorls want me to share your YT channels let me know~

I'm not really active (If had Smash Wii U I'd probably upload more), but I'm ShadowYoshi3604 on YT.

 

[Ffamran]

Huh. I didn't know Greninja's grab had so little endlag compared to the other ones.

I really have to wonder what was the logic behind the way his standing grab works. It's slower than some tethers while not having the range but it also has very low endlag, what was the intention behind it? lol

I don't know. For one, Ryu's light Ftilt makes his foot partially invincible which no other character I know has. So, Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, ZSS, Mario, Greninja, Luigi, and Samus basically all have angle-able, but not as safe Ftilts. Or something like how Yoshi's st. grab is frame 14, but his dash and pivot are frame 10 with about 46 and 44 recovery frames to his st. grab's 31. In a way, it's Greninja's situation where his st. and pivot grab is much slower than his dash, but have lower recovery, except in his case, st. grab has 13, pivot has 20, and dash has 27 which are overall lower than most characters.

Speaking of Yoshi, I have no idea what the point of his Ftilt is. It has short range, does 7% or 8% angled, and while it's fast at frame 5, and has 3 active frames, it has 38 total frames. That's 31 recovery frames. For a poke move, that's really bad. At least his Utilt and Dtilt have low recoveries at 16 and 13 which kind of justifies their short range as well... Still, they can be disjointed all they want, but he has like shorter than Mario range for tilts.

 

[r_greening1]

The Amiibo is scary because of the perfection, not the attack boosting.

When you get 40+% tacked on because of ONE lightning kick come talk to me

 

[EODM07]

Welp. Just found out Retsupurae has just had a look at another one of navgtr's reviews today. This time on FF8.

navgtr: "Squall looks dead inside."

Good old navgtr. Making trash reviews as usual.

 

[Jestar]

Found this crazy but funny gif in another thread.

 

[EODM07]

Found this crazy but funny gif in another thread.

I remember seeing that in PeanutButterGamer's video. If you want the sauce:

It's called Zelda Skyward Sword HACKING! - PBG

PBG seems to be the most kid friendly gaming channel out of the ones I've subbed to.

 

[Flavius]

Found this crazy but funny gif in another thread.

Are you implying that's not the correct way to walk?

 

[BJN39]

Zelda-related: her lowest recovery moves are jab at 10, Ftilt and Dtilt at 13, Dair at 20, Utilt and st. grab at 26, and dash attack and Side Smash at 29. Everything else goes into +30. Funny, Side Smash's low recovery could make it a move to use in neutral despite how dumb people would think it would be.

Where the heck are you getting these numbers? Her Jab's endlag is 8 frames. Fsmash's endlag is 25 frames while Ftilt is 28-27 frames. Also Utilt has an endlag range of 22-11 frames front to back.

And yes, especially after the patch, there is more potential for Zelda's Fsmash to get away safe on a shield, which I haven't heard much about really. I believe there's still a punish window, but it's quite small now. The hitboxes are still not very large, either. Shame they had to increase the endlag in this game. Image if it still had the Brawl endlag with the new shield mechanics. o_o

 

[LancerStaff]

My beef with FFA/teams used to balance characters is that a great 1v1 character can be just as great in FFA/teams. But characters balanced with FFA/Teams in mind (Palutena, Shulkkinda, Zelda, Ganondork) will be pretty crappy in 1v1. Meaning it would require immense effort/reading/skill on the player's part to make the character viable. I'm not sure if the developers understand that or not... I'm pretty sure they do not.

They understand, they just don't care that much. They'd rather keep Sheik viable in FFAs instead of nerfing her for 1v1s, namely.

I think Palutena was more designed around "Customs ON" rather than just vanilla FFAs.

Nah. Uair/Usmash anything and everything that flies by, Warp to the other side of the stage if somebody tries to go for you. LW is a deathwish and Counter is actually kinda useful, SS is kinda useless but AM and RB are about equal I'd say, EF pretty much makes you a target for just having it, and ditching Warp in any situation besides like Smash Run is pretty dumb.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Afternoon girls. How's everyone doing?

Just had my breakfast since I got up a bit late today. And I just played one of the new Super Mario Maker Event Levels, I now got the Super Mario Kun Costume.

I'd try and get the Fighter Fly costume from beating Gnat Attack Hard Mode, but I don't want to lose my wrist. :V

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

Good morning. Today your dose of Samus is ready! =3 Also I DID save the Dr. Mario replay evidently, I thought I didn't but hey! (I'm the Black Doc obv)

Spoiler: Only watch if you like the hardest reads

 

[Ffamran]

Where the heck are you getting these numbers? Her Jab's endlag is 8 frames. Fsmash's endlag is 25 frames while Ftilt is 28-27 frames. Also Utilt has an endlag range of 22-11 frames front to back.

And yes, especially after the patch, there is more potential for Zelda's Fsmash to get away safe on a shield, which I haven't heard much about really. I believe there's still a punish window, but it's quite small now. The hitboxes are still not very large, either. Shame they had to increase the endlag in this game. Image if it still had the Brawl endlag with the new shield mechanics. o_o

Uhh... (total frames + 1) - (startup + active frames )? So, Zelda's jab is (23 + 1) - (11 + 3) which is 24 - 14 = 10. Or you could do IASA or FAF - (startup + active). Recovery is any frame when a move isn't active. This becomes really weird for multi-hit moves like Zelda's jab.

Ftilt would be 40 - (12 + 2) = 26, Utilt would be 30 - (7 + 12) = 11... Goddammit. The way I set up my move order is Utilt, Ftilt, and Dtilt... I probably entered them the wrong way because Aero has it as Ftilt, Utilt, and Dtilt.

 

[BJN39]

Nah. Uair/Usmash anything and everything that flies by, Warp to the other side of the stage if somebody tries to go for you. LW is a deathwish and Counter is actually kinda useful, SS is kinda useless but AM and RB are about equal I'd say, EF pretty much makes you a target for just having it, and ditching Warp in any situation besides like Smash Run is pretty dumb.

I agree that people shouldn't replace warp, but if you think having counter over LW is a good idea you are mistaken. I mean, nothing is really looking as good anymore for the ol' paletuna as far as specials go. Her infinite LW is removed, and EF no longer goes through shields. I guess it has a bigger hitbox and does more damage now, though. SS is far from useless. IDK how it could be considered bad in any way. There's literally nothing truly bad about it aside losing your reflector to have it. Just "UAir/Usmash anything that flies by," is hardly a solution.

Uhh... (total frames + 1) - (startup + active frames )? So, Zelda's jab is (23 + 1) - (11 + 3) which is 24 - 14 = 10. Or you could do IASA or FAF - (startup + active).

You can't really calculate multi-hit moves' recoveries using the first hit-frame only. Zelda's Fsmash, Usmash, NAir, Nayru's, and Jab ould be misrepresented by this scheme.

(FAF - 1, "short" duration) - (last hit frame) > (23) - (15) = 8

The FAF is of course, the first frame you start another action to interrupt, so FAF -1 would technically be the "duration." Edit: Which you say in your post lol oop.

Where did you get that equation anyways? It doesn't account for the TWO frames in between each hit-frame of Zelda's Jab. Her Jab isn't 3 frames in a row, so it can't be calculated the way you did it.

 

[Jestar]

Are you implying that's not the correct way to walk?

Gurl, if you don't walk with a limp or walk like a sass queen, you're not walking correctly.

 

[LancerStaff]

I agree that people shouldn't replace warp, but if you think having counter over LW is a good idea you are mistaken. I mean, nothing is really looking as good anymore for the ol' paletuna as far as specials go. Her infinite LW is removed, and EF no longer goes through shields. I guess it has a bigger hitbox and does more damage now, though. SS is far from useless. IDK how it could be considered bad in any way. There's literally nothing truly bad about it aside losing your reflector to have it. Just "UAir/Usmash anything that flies by," is hardly a solution.

...In FFAs? LW is junk because you're going to die in like two hits, SS is bad because it puts Palutena right where she doesn't want to be, and Counter's nice because somebody is going to attack you while you land.

 

[EODM07]

Good morning. Today your dose of Samus is ready! =3 Also I DID save the Dr. Mario replay evidently, I thought I didn't but hey! (I'm the Black Doc obv)

Spoiler: Only watch if you like the hardest reads

I'll be up for the match in about an hour.

I'll be going through some of the Top Tiers as well, to see who I'm better with.