Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[FullMoon]

Never would I have thought that Greninja's N-Air would become safe from shieldgrabs lol

 

[Deleted member]

tfw you wake up to find your mother bought you Wendy's

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

My official opinion on the patch is just i don't know what to feel about it. I don't know how bad it's gonna affect smash 4, I don't know how badly/good..ly? it's going to affect my mains (Robin/Rosalina) so i'm just waiting with baited breath as everything clears up. I'll still play smash 4 regardless though.

In other news, according to the CCI Kirby is bottom 5 now. What a perfect time to start playing around with the character.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I didn't think I'd be breaking into an old lady's house today, but y'know, things happen.

So this new lady came to my church tonight and after the service I was volunteered to walk her down to her house which was like a block away. It's an astoundingly terrible neighborhood and it was already dark out and she's approximately 4,000 years old, so it definitely made sense for me to escort her. Like her neighbor's house has been victim to a couple drive-by shootings, one was 2 nights ago. I'm not really scared of that neighborhood, no one knows me so there's no reason to kill me.

Anyway, we make it to her house and we go to her back door and she tells me, "I hope the man who was working on my shed didn't lock my door when he left, because I don't have my key and my phone is inside." Surprise surprise, he locked the door. Because that neighborhood is tr4sh :/


SO, I ask her if she knows anyone's number off the top of her head who could help, she can't remember any numbers completely. Then I ask, "Is there a window I can crawl through?" She says there is, above her kitchen sink. So I look and of course the window is like 10 feet off the ground. She tells me there is a ladder in her shed. I stumble my way through her yard in the complete darkness and get the ladder and set it up. We're both in good spirits about it because of how ridiculous it was and it was super lucky that I walked her down there as opposed to her going alone. I don't know if you believe in God, but there is some stuff that is too crazy to be just coincidence, and those moments are the most fun. So I get up to the window and dang, it is perfectly Evan sized... Like I don't think I would have been able to make it if it was any smaller. I squirmed my way through the window trying to perfectly balance myself so I don't face plant. I make it through and I unlock the door. SUCCESS! I put the ladder away and I wished her a good evening. The whole situation just cracks me up to think about it. It's like an impossible string of unfortunate events all lining up together and I just laugh it off because this world is so crazy.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Oh god wait.

How bad is JC Elevator/standard elevator affected by this...

 

[Lavani]

Oh god wait.

How bad is JC Elevator/standard elevator affected by this...

Let me put it this way:

Spoiler: lots of embeds

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[TTTTTsd]

I know right

I'm crunching numbers right now and laughing at how Rosalina got guaranteed Luma>grab stuff on shield

Pikachu's numbers are horrifying too


not as horrifying as how blind I just became though

"Keep at it man this game is still fine you'll just have to adapt" I forget who suggested this to me but, I'm sorry man. This **** is full pants on head ******** and I give up.

 

[Lavani]

"Keep at it man this game is still fine you'll just have to adapt" I forget who suggested this to me but, I'm sorry man. This **** is full pants on head ******** and I give up.

dude just break their shield first and you win ok
if you don't press r you can't lose gitgud m8

Spoiler

I hope this shieldstun change gets reverted, there's no way this was playtested beforehand.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Spoiler: lots of embeds

embeds

Ugh, why didn't I listen to this?! I must click all spoiler buttons. It stopped my phone and I thought it was going to die forever.

 

[Rickster]

The problem is that the low tiers get better and safer options, but the top tiers get even safer options so it doesn't even matter.

It's basically like L-Cancelling in Melee. Everyone benefits at least a little but the top characters benefit so much more from it that it's like nothing even changed.

Honestly this change was likely not well thought out. Either tone it down some or just revert it completely. The game isn't balanced properly for this much shieldstun.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Lavani So does this mean offensive Rosalina? Can people finally stop complaining about her?

Also, like everyone else seems to be celebrating still. This seems to be the only place in smash existence that actually thinks there is something negative about it.

Edit: Looking at it, what you guys seem to care about is balance while everyone is celebrating the increase in offensive play.

So with that idea in mind. **** Balance. If this mean less people will hate Smash 4 I'm all for it.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I never shielded anyway, so now I can just spam Usmash until I win. Sounds balanced to me.

 

[Rickster]

Lavani So does this mean offensive Rosalina? Can people finally stop complaining about her?

Also, like everyone else seems to be celebrating still. This seems to be the only place in smash existence that actually thinks there is something negative about it.

Edit: Looking at it, what you guys seem to care about is balance while everyone is celebrating the increase in offensive play.

So with that idea in mind. **** Balance. If this mean less people will hate Smash 4 I'm all for it.

Well it's also the fact that Zelda got shafted pretty hard by the change. Harder Elevators OoS, harder Usmash OoS, gets pressured even harder by fast characters...it's a mess. Our best KO options have been indirectly nerfed. Some of our worst MUs are even worse since they utilize shieldstun better.

Yeah, Fsmash, Jab, and Kicks are safer (most notable moves)...but does that make up for what we lost?

MESS

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Well it's also the fact that Zelda got shafted pretty hard bybthe change. Harder Elevators OoS, harder Usmash OoS, gets pressured even harder by fast characters...it's a mess. Our best KO options have been indirectly nerfed.

Yeah, Fsmash, Jab, and Kicks are safer (most notable moves)...but does that make up for what we lost?

Again, for once there are actually people who have hope in Smash 4 again. People who aren't just dismissing it.

I'm sorry Zelda. But YES!
It is entirely worth whatever sacrifice she had to have made to finally end, (or at least decrease somewhat), all the years of complaining.

 

[McKnightlíght]

FW2 is safer?!?!?! Though?!?! Maybe?!?! Spam Nayru's then ftilt?!?!?!



I like not actually contributing to the conversation because I don't know what Smeej Brothers even is.


Someone should go Aether camp and see how safe it is on shield now. Oh my gosh I'll be unstoppable! Until I hit the regrab limit.

 

[Lavani]

Lavani So does this mean offensive Rosalina? Can people finally stop complaining about her?

Also, like everyone else seems to be celebrating still. This seems to be the only place in smash existence that actually thinks there is something negative about it.

Edit: Looking at it, what you guys seem to care about is balance while everyone is celebrating the increase in offensive play.

So with that idea in mind. **** Balance. If this mean less people will hate Smash 4 I'm all for it.

It's not offensive Rosalina so much as dumb bull****.

Which admittedly almost all characters have now.

Welcome to Sm4sh Minus.

(I also haven't seen anyone enthused with this patch anywhere, multiple friends dropped the game altogether after it hit)

 

[Phenomiracle]

Mathematical reality inevitably dictates a difference between true balance and optimal offensive play, but Smash 4 should move towards improving both until a crossroads is met.

It isn't just here, most characters out of the top 15 who average to poor mobility have taken a bad hit with this patch.

The cast of viable competitive characters has only shrunk.

 

[kenniky]

Speaking of Minus, that looks like a fun and dumb game. Wish I had a small SD card.

 

[Rickster]

If your character relies on shield a lot, especially Run>Shield as an approach, then they got nerfed.

Overall I say Zelda was 65% nerfed and 35% buffed by the changes. Meanwhile characters like Sheik pretty much completely benefit.

 

[Kofu]

hi
I still can't play smash


bye

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

It's not offensive Rosalina so much as dumb bull****.

Which admittedly almost all characters have now.

Welcome to Sm4sh Minus.

(I also haven't seen anyone enthused with this patch anywhere, multiple friends dropped the game altogether after it hit)

I know it's a cancer, but the entirety of the Smash reddit is thrilled with it. Which I actually think is a plus since they are usually never pleased with anything.

If there is truly a problem, it will show itself eventually in a much broader form. People already found ways to escape that one Lucario lock.

 

[Lavani]

cancer

reddit is thrilled with it

Oh, now I understand.

 

[Virtue]

I'm thinking that with the lack of buffs and how ridiculously easy shields appear to break, Jigglypuff might legitimately be the worst fighter.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Eh, still. Even if I only seen positive stuff from reddit, I've also only seen negative stuff here in this social.

I'm just going to let time deal with this one.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Pretty sure other characters' socials (if any are half as active as we are) are dismayed also.

Only question time will answer is the extent to which how badly this change affects the non-top-tiers. The fact that most of the cast suffers is an inescapable fact.

 

[Rizen]

IDK why people are freaking out about 3 or 4 frames more shield stun. Don't get caught in your shield and zone attacks safer.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Hmm, which characters benefit and suffer due to the shield changes?

Benefits:

Hinders:

... See the problem with this patch?

 

[Furret]

IDK why people are freaking out about 3 or 4 frames more shield stun. Don't get caught in your shield and zone attacks safer.

I kinda like it, shield was dominating the competitive too much, also helps the characters with low shield damage on their projectiles

Hmm, which characters benefit and suffer due to the shield changes?

Benefits:

Hinders:

... See the problem with this patch?

you could nerf every character not named zelda and it would still hinder zelda.
also how does this hurt kirby?
and on second thought how does this hurt jiggs?

 

[Rizen]

Hmm, which characters benefit and suffer due to the shield changes?

Benefits:

Hinders:

... See the problem with this patch?

IMO Shiek and ZSS were very hard to punish OoS anyway. Now they can be walled out better by zoners. Rosalina, Pika, Mario, Greninja and Yoshi I agree benefit overall. Sonic loses some power in his mix-up to shield game and is more vulnerable to attacks. IMO Sonic doesn't get a boost.

Zelda, Jiggz and Kirby I agree with. I think tuna and Samus have zoning tools that benefit. Samus gets OoS>upB nerfed but has better missile/zair/fair/etc keep away.

 

[Deleted member]

I just love this new update Smashboards just put out!!

It broke and it freaked me out LOL

 

[SBphiloz4]

I kinda like it, shield was dominating the competitive too much, also helps the characters with low shield damage on their projectiles

you could nerf every character not named zelda and it would still hinder zelda.
also how does this hurt kirby?
and on second thought how does this hurt jiggs?

Kirby always had problems with OoS options and pressure against his shield so having to deal with increased shield stun during pressure really hinders him. If you decide to not shield and eat the attack, it adds up and you can die really early. Also, his only good option against raw shield is Dair, which is pretty much his character anyway and your opponents will always be looking out for it.

Jiggs... well, other than having much better Fair and Bair spacing, I don't see how Jiggs can really do anything in this patch. Pound doesn't break shields anymore, she has no multi-hit attacks to break shields. Literally everyone in the game has a way to break shields with attack strings, which means bye bye Jiggly. And you die early if you don't shield so it's super lose-lose.

IMO Shiek and ZSS were very hard to punish OoS anyway. Now they can be walled out better by zoners. Rosalina, Pika, Mario, Greninja and Yoshi I agree benefit overall. Sonic loses some power in his mix-up to shield game and is more vulnerable to attacks. IMO Sonic doesn't get a boost.

Zelda, Jiggz and Kirby I agree with. I think tuna and Samus have zoning tools that benefit. Samus gets OoS>upB nerfed but has better missile/zair/fair/etc keep away.

I was pretty reluctant to add Samus on the hindered list because of what you said about zoning. I really can't theorize if zoning is overall better or worse due to this patch, as for sure aggro offense is much more favoured right now. From what I can see zoning seems mostly identical because eating a few more frames of shield from afar won't kill you, whereas doing the same right up close from an aerial attack would. You're most likely gonna try to powershield everything too so yeah. Will have to explore it more.

 

[Soul.]

I feel this patch could've been better without the need of shieldstun changes. Now everything is just so confusing.
Of course, I'm a Pikachu main; maybe people will think I'm glad this happened but no, I don't think the game(s) needed to change.

 

[Rickster]

I think Zelda's meta is about to shift from "hope opponent doesn't shield, SPAM FARORE'S" to "hope opponent shields, SPAM FSMASH"

 

[McKnightlíght]

Lol what is this Smeej brothers you guys are even talking about? Everyone's all like "Smeej brothers this" and "Smeej brothers that" and I'm like how did I even find Smeej brothers in the first place? Why is this Smeej brother better than any other Smeej y'know?

 

[Furret]

I think Zelda's meta is about to shift from "hope opponent doesn't shield, SPAM FARORE'S" to "hope opponent shields, SPAM FSMASH"

 

[BJN39]

If your character relies on shield a lot, especially Run>Shield as an approach, then they got nerfed.

Overall I say Zelda was 65% nerfed and 35% buffed by the changes. Meanwhile characters like Sheik pretty much completely benefit.

I think Zelda's meta is about to shift from "hope opponent doesn't shield, SPAM FARORE'S" to "hope opponent shields, SPAM FSMASH"

HmmmmmT

Welcome to the pessimisT side

 

[McKnightlíght]

Haha, I remember the first time I played Smeej brothers on the NSixtySmeej when I was Smeej years old. I thought! No way! Samus AND Ness are in this game? Who the F are those people?

I played Donkey Smeej, it was a good time.

 

[LancerStaff]

Haha, I remember the first time I played Smeej brothers on the NSixtySmeej when I was Smeej years old.

...I think smeej is getting old.

 

[Rickster]

HmmmmmT

Welcome to the pessimisT side

Not jusT yet sis

I'll give this patch a week. If I still hate it I might join the pessimist side. The changes might not be as bad as I'm making them out to be for us

 

[Rizen]

Whoa, I'm actually on the optimistic side for once. I feel dirty.