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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629


yoshi why is your pupil winking

yoshi that's not how eyes work

yoshi stop
Nintendo isn't a fan of logic. For example: the dumbest recoil in the world. There is absolutely no reason it should have horizontal recoil like that. Not only does it look stupid, but it clips into his beak making it look even stupider.


Then again, this move exists... I don't even know how the hell you're supposed to generate enough force to stab like that.


And then, broken ankle Lucina... Who even stabs like this!? Oh. My. Naga. Is her wrist and elbow... That's disgusting.


Marth leaning in at least looks okay, but Lucina...
 
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CatRaccoonBL

You can do it!
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Honestly, while I keep seeing you guys theory craft on how much Smash 4 is apparently bad now, I keep seeing stuff showing how much better the game has gotten like with Jigglypuff and buster Shulk.

Even with Diddy, people have found a temporary solution for it. (But it still needs to be patched out).

I feel the best route is the optimistic route.
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Smash and real world physics/logic don't exactly mix.
Games and logic don't exactly mix well either. If stuff was too real, it would be boring and tedious. When it comes to adding flair and style, you do have to make things somewhat logical so it doesn't just look stupid. When Dante rushes in with Stinger, he's still using proper grip and positioning. You don't see him hyper-extending his elbow or leaning in way too much so that he can't see. And this was from 2001...


Smash has some questionable things like horizontal recoil for Falco's Blaster, Shield Breaker's weird animations, ZSS's spine-breaking moves like Side Smash, Boost Kick, and dash attack - imagine her missing and slamming into a wall with her head down like that -, and some others, but most are within a realm of they look good or cool and don't look awkward like Fox's Side Smash, Captain Falcon's Up Smash, Ike's everything, and Ganondorf's Warlock Punch - it has this tai chi feel to it.

At the same time, moves that are kind of awkward do look out of place, especially if you notice them or you've been playing a character for a while and see them all the time. For example, the existence of Falco's Fair landing hit and Fair itself is questionable. Logically, Falco would have guts and blood all over his face probably making him blind during the fight or even destroy his beak if he attempted that on say, ROB or Ganondorf's armor. It's kind of a gruesome move while Sonic and Pikachu's at least could be said as twisting headbutts.
 
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SpiralGalaxies

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Smash 4 is far from bad now, just different. I am positive that things will be retooled in other patches so lets not just give up on everything yet. We can still do this!

Zelda can still be good! We just have to ~*LEARN*~

 
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McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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omgogmogmogmgogmogmogmgogmogmogmgomgogmogmgomgomgogmogmogmogmogmogmgokmgogmog m MY Game capture came in a day early!!!!!

Now I don't have to bug you guys by talking about Smeej brothers and I can actually contribute to the conversation :D
 

LancerStaff

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Games and logic don't exactly mix well either. If stuff was too real, it would be boring and tedious. When it comes to adding flair and style, you do have to make things somewhat logical so it doesn't just look stupid. When Dante rushes in with Stinger, he's still using proper grip and positioning. You don't see him hyper-extending his elbow or leaning in way too much so that he can't see. And this was from 2001...


Smash has some questionable things like horizontal recoil for Falco's Blaster, Shield Breaker's weird animations, ZSS's spine-breaking moves like Side Smash, Boost Kick, and dash attack - imagine her missing and slamming into a wall with her head down like that -, and some others, but most are within a realm of they look good or cool and don't look awkward like Fox's Side Smash, Captain Falcon's Up Smash, Ike's everything, and Ganondorf's Warlock Punch - it has this tai chi feel to it.

At the same time, moves that are kind of awkward do look out of place, especially if you notice them or you've been playing a character for a while and see them all the time. For example, the existence of Falco's Fair landing hit and Fair itself is questionable. Logically, Falco would have guts and blood all over his face probably making him blind during the fight or even destroy his beak if he attempted that on say, ROB or Ganondorf's armor. It's kind of a gruesome move while Sonic and Pikachu's at least could be said as twisting headbutts.
It's funny that Pit mostly holds his bow right in Smash 4 but the Links don't. He's kinda got it at a weird angle but considering the thing's almost as tall as he is it's a reasonable thing. Big Link though... Like, how the heck to you lean back and expect to not slap yourself with the string? If it's launching the arrow that fast that'd hurt pretty bad.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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It's funny that Pit mostly holds his bow right in Smash 4 but the Links don't. He's kinda got it at a weird angle but considering the thing's almost as tall as he is it's a reasonable thing. Big Link though... Like, how the heck to you lean back and expect to not slap yourself with the string? If it's launching the arrow that fast that'd hurt pretty bad.
It looks weird but it hits short characters. Go with what works :ohwell:
 

KarmaCastle

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I got legitimately salty in FG for the first time today.

I got a pikachu > Lmac > fox. They were all great players, way above typical FG quality you usually get. No lag either.

Couldn't elevator OOS. Obviously couldn't approach them. Wasn't able to punish very well. I went even in most of the matches (except the Fox) and found myself sighing and thinking "wow it must be great to be unpunishable" "oh what good approach options you have" "i sure wish I had a neutral game"

I'm one of the gorls that keeps advocating that it's a double edged blade and we should look at the positive side for being able to approach more safely, but holy **** I haven't been this passive-aggressively pissed at a game in years.

This is so disheartening ;=;

On a more positive note, I posted about frame data and benefit/gimp ratios of the high tier / low tears in my local FB group. This is a reply I got. Is this how it's done gorls?


BANHER.png
 
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Jestar

Prinsass of Hyrule
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yoshi why is your pupil winking

yoshi that's not how eyes work

yoshi stop
I liked this for the Mario Party 3 nostalgia.
Games and logic don't exactly mix well either. If stuff was too real, it would be boring and tedious. When it comes to adding flair and style, you do have to make things somewhat logical so it doesn't just look stupid. When Dante rushes in with Stinger, he's still using proper grip and positioning. You don't see him hyper-extending his elbow or leaning in way too much so that he can't see. And this was from 2001...


Smash has some questionable things like horizontal recoil for Falco's Blaster, Shield Breaker's weird animations, ZSS's spine-breaking moves like Side Smash, Boost Kick, and dash attack - imagine her missing and slamming into a wall with her head down like that -, and some others, but most are within a realm of they look good or cool and don't look awkward like Fox's Side Smash, Captain Falcon's Up Smash, Ike's everything, and Ganondorf's Warlock Punch - it has this tai chi feel to it.

At the same time, moves that are kind of awkward do look out of place, especially if you notice them or you've been playing a character for a while and see them all the time. For example, the existence of Falco's Fair landing hit and Fair itself is questionable. Logically, Falco would have guts and blood all over his face probably making him blind during the fight or even destroy his beak if he attempted that on say, ROB or Ganondorf's armor. It's kind of a gruesome move while Sonic and Pikachu's at least could be said as twisting headbutts.
Speaking of logic, Wolf's up smash does a pretty good job at defying gravity and looking cool at the same time.
 

Macchiato

Smash Hero
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I got legitimately salty in FG for the first time today.

I got a pikachu > Lmac > fox. They were all great players, way above typical FG quality you usually get. No lag either.

Couldn't elevator OOS. Obviously couldn't approach them. Wasn't able to punish very well. I went even in most of the matches (except the Fox) and found myself sighing and thinking "wow it must be great to be unpunishable" "oh what good approach options you have" "i sure wish I had a neutral game"

I'm one of the gorls that keeps advocating that it's a double edged blade and we should look at the positive side for being able to approach more safely, but holy **** I haven't been this passive-aggressively pissed at a game in years.

This is so disheartening ;=;

On a more positive note, I posted about frame data and benefit/gimp ratios of the high tier / low tears in my local FB group. This is a reply I got. Is this how it's done gorls?


View attachment 76008
That's the player that said Peach is the easiest character to play lmao
 

Trieste SP

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
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Location
遠東
I got legitimately salty in FG for the first time today.

I got a pikachu > Lmac > fox. They were all great players, way above typical FG quality you usually get. No lag either.

Couldn't elevator OOS. Obviously couldn't approach them. Wasn't able to punish very well. I went even in most of the matches (except the Fox) and found myself sighing and thinking "wow it must be great to be unpunishable" "oh what good approach options you have" "i sure wish I had a neutral game"

I'm one of the gorls that keeps advocating that it's a double edged blade and we should look at the positive side for being able to approach more safely, but holy **** I haven't been this passive-aggressively pissed at a game in years.

This is so disheartening ;=;

On a more positive note, I posted about frame data and benefit/gimp ratios of the high tier / low tears in my local FB group. This is a reply I got. Is this how it's done gorls?


View attachment 76008
I guess you'll just have to adapt to these changes and hope the next balance patch fixes some of the problems Zelda have now.

I was seriously unhappy on how Sm4sh played in the beginning, it didn't feel "right" to me but I still stuck with it. Eventually, I got comfortable with it and actually enjoying it more than Brawl.

Another alternative for you is to focus on other characters in the meantime, sometimes you just need to take a break.
 

Antonykun

Hero of Many Faces
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
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i just want to take a moment and say when every my alerts say "@Benishigure attached a file one 'Zelda Social'" I die of hype
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,924
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Colorado
McKnightlíght McKnightlíght Dunktober? Yes your voice is fine but there's no game audio. Lots of static too. I don't have a twitch account :ohwell:

That lag sounds terrible. Either that or you're constipated :p

I get more lag on dreamland too. Still has static btw.
 
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McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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McKnightlíght McKnightlíght Dunktober? Yes your voice is fine but there's no game audio. Lots of static too. I don't have a twitch account :ohwell:

That lag sounds terrible. Either that or you're constipated :p

I get more lag on dreamland too. Still has static btw.
Dunktober is a thing now!
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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Colorado
Try tightening the cords to get rid of the static maybe. Or adjust your mic settings to only pic up your voice in front of it.
Rosa has no attack on her upB so Fair her!
 

2004Zilla

Smash Master
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Oct 3, 2014
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But the only tag I used was the ~WAIFU~ tag though. :^/

Only recently I have changed to the ~FRAUD~ tag. But yes, although I've converted to Red ZSS, I did use white ZSS back then. Pretty sure it wasn't me though because I didn't convert to Zero Skill Spamus fully until recently.

And I haven't played FG in a long while so I defz wasn't the Zelda either haha
>When the 0.1% turns out to be true



I figured you probably weren't the Zelda because they were using the trash purple dress alt. :secretkpop:

Games and logic don't exactly mix well either. If stuff was too real, it would be boring and tedious. When it comes to adding flair and style, you do have to make things somewhat logical so it doesn't just look stupid. When Dante rushes in with Stinger, he's still using proper grip and positioning. You don't see him hyper-extending his elbow or leaning in way too much so that he can't see. And this was from 2001...


Smash has some questionable things like horizontal recoil for Falco's Blaster, Shield Breaker's weird animations, ZSS's spine-breaking moves like Side Smash, Boost Kick, and dash attack - imagine her missing and slamming into a wall with her head down like that -, and some others, but most are within a realm of they look good or cool and don't look awkward like Fox's Side Smash, Captain Falcon's Up Smash, Ike's everything, and Ganondorf's Warlock Punch - it has this tai chi feel to it.

At the same time, moves that are kind of awkward do look out of place, especially if you notice them or you've been playing a character for a while and see them all the time. For example, the existence of Falco's Fair landing hit and Fair itself is questionable. Logically, Falco would have guts and blood all over his face probably making him blind during the fight or even destroy his beak if he attempted that on say, ROB or Ganondorf's armor. It's kind of a gruesome move while Sonic and Pikachu's at least could be said as twisting headbutts.
I'll have to agree. I don't usually pay attention to this stuff in games, but it's really, really noticeable when you're trying to take screenshots and ZSS is acting like a damn contortionist. :/
 
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Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,924
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Colorado
Yes it's like Rize-N. I'll play, give me a sec...
Edit, this lag is terrible. We usually have a good connection :(

Edit McKnightlíght McKnightlíght I got a phone call I have to take. GGs. I think streaming has really upped the lag :(
 
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Rickster

Smash Master
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Feb 23, 2014
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:(

Rickster and Macchiato both heading towards penissisM...

Am I going to be the last one standing?
Well I mean...things really aren't looking good for us. But I'll give it a week. If we still don't have anything significant then I'll convert. :secretkpop:

But yeah I'm actually mad about the changes. The game's not balanced for them, it made the top tiers even stronger and the low/bottom tiers even weaker. There's dumb stuff like Lucario's ASC. The Diddy bug. What the hell was the dev team smoking??
---------
Anyway here's some stuff~

Triple Jab into Fsmash can shieldbreak...if they don't roll or anything. We could also try stuff like Jabs>Dtilts>Dsmash on shields to pressure them. Oh, and Jabs>Ftilt is OK and faster than Fsmash. Jabs>Kick is good but your opponent has a lot of time to react.

So basically Jab, Ftilt, Dtilt, Fsmash, and Dsmash are our close range shield pressure moves. It's best to start with Jab since it's safe on block (it was +-0 prepatch so I'm assuming it's positive now). Phantom and Kicks are good too but those are harder to land. Fsmash is by far our best shield breaking move (plus they can't stop shielding once it hits AND it targets the very center of their shield AND is also safer). Also a Kick after a full charge Phantom should finish their shield off or at least cripple it, but that's always been there. Kicks are also a bit safer, I believe.

Btw the "s" on Jabs is intentional. Actually spam Jab on their shield.

I realize now that the info in this post is horribly organized
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
It's funny that Pit mostly holds his bow right in Smash 4 but the Links don't. He's kinda got it at a weird angle but considering the thing's almost as tall as he is it's a reasonable thing. Big Link though... Like, how the heck to you lean back and expect to not slap yourself with the string? If it's launching the arrow that fast that'd hurt pretty bad.
I don't think the string would snap back and hit him. This is a more frontal view. The bow's still to his side and not right in front of him - I don't even think it would be possible to shoot like that.


It looks weird but it hits short characters. Go with what works :ohwell:
Well, unlike traditional fighting games, Smash has varied heights and a much different air game and jump game. Falco, Wolf, Link, Mewtwo, Samus, ROB, Sheik, ZSS, Robin, Wii Fit Trainer, and even the Pits, Greninja, and Luigi all fire low or stand lower or crouch to fire. Unless they have normally large projectiles like Ryu or are just short like Fox - even he still stands a bit lower before shooting -, Diddy, Toon Link, Mega Man, Ness, and Lucas, most of the projectiles fired "high" arc like Triple D and Yoshi's or cover an area like Zelda and Palutena's who also has homing properties. Smaller projectiles including the ones that start out small, kind of have to be fired low since not everyone's the same height. If Guile was in this game, his Sonic Boom would probably suck since it's fired at his shoulder level and Guile's like Ryu's height. If Falco still shot like a gangster, but shoulder to eye level, his Blaster would have been the worst projectile in not just Smash 4, but Melee, Brawl, and maybe even in PM since if you're not at least Fox's height, then you're not getting hit. Hell, most of the cast maybe including Bowser could crouch under his lasers. The irony is that if Falco aimed eye-level, held his Blaster in both hands, and still canted it, he'd technically be using a shooting style called center axis relock (CAR) which is also ironically, a style that supposedly excels at close-range aka melee range. An "easy" fix would be to make Falco only fire while crouched... You'd end up making Falco Splinter Cell or John Wick at this point...

Speaking of logic, Wolf's up smash does a pretty good job at defying gravity and looking cool at the same time.
Well, it doesn't have to be that logical. It's just doing the animations cleanly without being awkward if they're doing it stylistically. A stylized thrust should look stylized, but it shouldn't look weird for whatever reason. By weird, I don't mean like it's just a weird attack like Luigi's butt jab. I mean if parts of the animation just look really off like Lucina's charging animation for Shield Breaker. Speaking of charging animation, doesn't ZSS shake while charging Down Smash? Er... Why? The only thing that should happen is her pistol emitting electricity of something. There's like no reason why she should be shaking when she's charging a Down Smash.

Kind of related... Capcom is the king of animations and Kojima Productions is the king of subtle animations. It really helps when Capcom employs martial artists to motion capture and Kojima Productions employed military, security, and police people. At the same time Capcom and Konami, the owner of what used to be Kojima Productions, are kings of royally screwing things up. They had Vergil's Force Edge Combo in DMC3 left unused and still in the game files for DMC4: SE. It looks good, it flows well, and it doesn't have much awkward stuff aside from the sheathing looking a bit choppy, but it's unfinished.


Kind of makes me wished Nintendo hired Capcom to be the co-developer instead of Namco Bandai. Nothing against Namco, but Capcom's filled with talented game developers all under questionable company holder... people... leaders... The people who run Capcom do really stupid things, but the developers always manage to do great things, especially with animations and gameplay. The what if of a Capcom or SNK Playmore co-developed Smash game will always be wondered by me... *Falco ends up as Charlie Nash clone because of Capcom* Welp, at least he's still a good character.

*Bowser becomes a R. Mika clone* Uh... Why did I... The image... It burns...
 

SBphiloz4

Gatekeeper of the Shadows
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Here's some incredible gamebreaking tech for Zelda!

It only works if you win
and that usually doesn't happen but if you do
Holding the following directions on the :GCDpad: during the "GAME!" sign gives you the following:

Up: "im 2 gud 4 u b****" with the sassyfrassy look
Left: pray 2 da gods dat 1 day u will git gud
Right: look at me i can use din's fail without SDing :secretkpop:

Also for giggles, here's a secret :4drmario:tech.

Holding right on the Dpad during the transition to the victory screen gives you this :secretkpop:
 

SpiralGalaxies

Smash Lord
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So, Tourney mode now has Platform only tourneys and battlefield only tourneys.

And Platform/Battlefield 1v1's with no items too. So now it's a real competitve tourney mode! except for the 3:00 time limit, but we can't have everything I guess.
 
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Furret

Long Body Pokémon
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MO
I don't think the string would snap back and hit him. This is a more frontal view. The bow's still to his side and not right in front of him - I don't even think it would be possible to shoot like that.
well his stance with his legs is stupid, but there is nothing wrong there, even the fletching are facing correctly

Fun Fact, while it's superstition that english long bowman had deformities from the use of their bow, it is true that the arm that drew the bow was more visibly more muscular then the side that knocked the arrow
 

Jaguar360

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I'm really unsure of what to think of the patch as a whole tbh. I probably need to play against actual people before I can make a good judgement on it. My gut instinct is to like it because Greninja and Yoshi have a couple of their aerials safer on shield now and Zelda's f-smash and d-tilt are even better spacing tools now, but I dislike that most of the low tier characters don't benefit much from it and that Farore's Wind is essentially acting 4 frames or so later now OoS. I personally haven't noticed huge differences yet aside from being able to approach safely with SHFF N-air as Greninja (which is definitely really big), but again, I've been playing against CPUs for the past day so it might be different when I face people who know what they're doing with rushdown and pressure-based characters online.

I'm actually a bit pleased with the 2 changes to Zelda's customs even if they won't matter in the end since no one uses customs anymore :/. Naryu's Passion pretty much went from bad, but useful in some cases to okay with the 5 frame startup buff. It's a bit more consistent at punishing landings, rolls and edguarding now. It's outclassed by default Naryu's Love in most matchups, but the extra damage and knockback can help in matchups where projectiles aren't a factor and the intangibility from default doesn't help as much. Ganondorf, Donkey Kong, Ike, etc. come to mind. I recorded a match yesterday where it was used somewhat effectively, but didn't bother recording it last night since I figured nobody would care to watch.

As for Squall, I just hope those 6 frames of endlag were the ones that prevented Squall from comboing into U-air or other things. If not, it's probably just as niche as it was before.
 

LancerStaff

Smash Hero
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Fun Fact, while it's superstition that english long bowman had deformities from the use of their bow, it is true that the arm that drew the bow was more visibly more muscular then the side that knocked the arrow
There's a reason why nowadays you hold the bow itself in the non-dominant hand and pull with the dominant. :p
 

McKnightlíght

Getting back into the dunk game
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I'm really unsure of what to think of the patch as a whole tbh. I probably need to play against actual people before I can make a good judgement on it. My gut instinct is to like it because Greninja and Yoshi have a couple of their aerials safer on shield now and Zelda's f-smash and d-tilt are even better spacing tools now, but I dislike that most of the low tier characters don't benefit much from it and that Farore's Wind is essentially acting 4 frames or so later now OoS. I personally haven't noticed huge differences yet aside from being able to approach safely with SHFF N-air as Greninja (which is definitely really big), but again, I've been playing against CPUs for the past day so it might be different when I face people who know what they're doing with rushdown and pressure-based characters online.

I'm actually a bit pleased with the 2 changes to Zelda's customs even if they won't matter in the end since no one uses customs anymore :/. Naryu's Passion pretty much went from bad, but useful in some cases to okay with the 5 frame startup buff. It's a bit more consistent at punishing landings, rolls and edguarding now. It's outclassed by default Naryu's Love in most matchups, but the extra damage and knockback can help in matchups where projectiles aren't a factor and the intangibility from default doesn't help as much. Ganondorf, Donkey Kong, Ike, etc. come to mind. I recorded a match yesterday where it was used somewhat effectively, but didn't bother recording it last night since I figured nobody would care to watch.

As for Squall, I just hope those 6 frames of endlag were the ones that prevented Squall from comboing into U-air or other things. If not, it's probably just as niche as it was before.
Ike rushdown is still unsafe on shield I learned.


Dang
 

Rickster

Smash Master
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Feb 23, 2014
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Anyone want to play some?

Preferably someone I have a good connection with since I want to test out these shield changes some more. And lag would screw that up.
 
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Antonykun

Hero of Many Faces
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reminding you gorls that there will always be some lag when playing online at least 7 frames IIRC and i swear my connection gets worse with each patch
 
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