Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[KarmaCastle]

I'm rather sad that Lucina/Marth got a nerf with her Neutral B.

But at least Bowser kind of had a buff with his NAir. Won't be enough anyways. :V

Pretty sure the nerf was to balance out the shield nerfs overall. Sort of like if an ability did 30 damage to a 50 damage target. But the target got nerfed to 40hp, so the ability now only does 20 damage. If that makes sense.

That and the fact that a 0 charge shield breaker would instantly break shields if you held the shield button for even a FRACTION of a second after taking the hit was probably not intended.

Also more shield stun means you're going to hold on for that fraction of a second now, regardless.

Side note, to For Glory's credit there's almost no Sheiks or Luigis. Like ever. Didn't really think about it until now.

 

[Lavani]

I just heard about the shieldstun increase.

I don't know how to feel about this.

 

[buzzard]

My initial reaction is that it hurts Zelda a lot more than it helps her, it hurt all slow and shield dependant characters, but at least Bowser gets some nice things like always breaking shields with Bowser Bomb.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I just heard about the shieldstun increase.

I don't know how to feel about this.

I'm kind of upset. If it ain't broke don't fix it? What high level player/notable player even complained about shields in this game? It'll probably get reverted/altered next patch, look at all the dumb shield break/bull**** with it atm. For now enjoy Smash 4 Minus I guess.

It just sucks for chars like Ganondorf and, yes, Bowser.

 

[EODM07]

Pretty sure the nerf was to balance out the shield nerfs overall. Sort of like if an ability did 30 damage to a 50 damage target. But the target got nerfed to 40hp, so the ability now only does 20 damage. If that makes sense.

That and the fact that a 0 charge shield breaker would instantly break shields if you held the shield button for even a FRACTION of a second after taking the hit was probably not intended.

Also more shield stun means you're going to hold on for that fraction of a second now, regardless.

Side note, to For Glory's credit there's almost no Sheiks or Luigis. Like ever. Didn't really think about it until now.

Okie dokie. Sounds more reasonable.
It'll be more hype and kind of easier getting Shield Breaks then.

 

[LancerStaff]

I just heard about the shieldstun increase.

I don't know how to feel about this.

Let's be honest here... Those who'll benefit most are those on the fringe of safety and characters who get unique interactions like Lucario's Aura Sphere shield break, or Pit's everything/Ryu's collarbone breaker not being escapable if shielded.

 

[Rizen]

I'm kind of upset. If it ain't broke don't fix it? What high level player/notable player even complained about shields in this game? It'll probably get reverted/altered next patch, look at all the dumb shield break/bull**** with it atm. For now enjoy Smash 4 Minus I guess.

It just sucks for chars like Ganondorf and, yes, Bowser.

I think Ganon will benefit from it. His attacks are huge and eat shields better than almost every other character. Increased shield stun means shielding vs him is harder to punish from and more dangerous. Bowser has a good upB OoS. I think he'll be okay.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Just saying Sheik Fair on your shield is now literally +0 if she ACs it which is pretty easy.

I think Ganon will benefit from it. His attacks are huge and eat shields better than almost every other character. Increased shield stun means shielding vs him is harder to punish from and more dangerous. Bowser has a good upB OoS. I think he'll be okay.

Ganon has nothing good OoS. I'm not a master of foresight but this change is literally making pretty much every aerial 3 or 4 frames safer on block regardless of its damage because of the formula having "+3" in it. This is TERRIBLE for Ganon because with legit dumb shield break setups becoming a thing it's not gonna help. He doesn't have the speed or unpredictability to pressure shields in this game even with an additional 3 frames extra stun.

 

[Locke 06]

Why develop and balance a game around an engine for years.

Just to alter the strongest universal move in the game a year in?

Makes me worried about what else will be changed in the engine.

 

[EODM07]

Why develop and balance a game around an engine for years.

Just to alter the strongest universal move in the game a year in?

Makes me worried about what else will be changed in the engine.

Since because of the Shieldstun mechanic. Sheik has pretty much become best in the game. Only way they could change this is by probably changing her FAir endlag. Or make it so it doesn't AC.

Or revert the Shields back to what they were.

 

[TTTTTsd]

A very good reason as to why this is bad is because they changed a fundamental mechanic that had worked properly and didn't ADJUST THE THINGS AROUND IT IN RESPONSE so we have stuff like Lucario aura sphere forcing you to Shield DI out like a fiend, YOshi Dair being an immediate shield break or you take a hit, etc. etc.

Why. I mean I'm sure I'll get used to it but....why?

I mean Ryu and Doc are both still fine (Doc might be better because while he has poor mobility his OoS game STILL has to be respected and he has a kit that's good against camping from most chars and is generally uncaring of the new shieldstun), Ryu just flat out benefits.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Our prayers have been answered by Lord Masterhero Samurai.

Finally, a much needed global mechanic has been reworked to balance and move the game in the right direction. Most moves now do a bit more shield stun, making them a bit safer if your opponent shields your attack. What does this mean? This means that the character who needed the most amount of attention coming into this patch has finally got her time to shine and get buffed. No longer do we have to worry about our aerials and tilts being as punishable. No longer are our Fair strings incredibly unsafe on shield. No longer do we have to worry about our needles not doing enough to camp out the opponent. No longer do we have to worry about a potential OoS punish from your opponent as often, as a character that has so much trouble killing at 150+%. She finally got some well-needed buffs to become even relevant in our metagame.

With rolls and airdodges losing a frame of invincibility, this also gives our lost warrior some new hope, using her speed to catch poor defensive options faster, and at the same time maintain very safe shield pressure. Whether the opponent is in shield or in a defensive option, it seems like she is now able to do something about either. As well, we no longer have to worry about that blue hair girl with the cutting board chest's shield breaker, or Dong's headbutt, as their shield damage output has been reduced severely. This gives her much needed survivability against these broken and cancerous characters.

Finally, no longer do we have to worry about broken moves that come out on frame 7 and kill you at 50% just because you threw out an unsafe move on shield. Finally, the tyrant in Zelda gets what she deserved for being so powerful. No longer can she punish moves on her shield as well with her UpB, and with her customs buffed dramatically, it's a huge sigh of relief that customs are now banned in tournaments, which would otherwise cause massive problems in the metagame. And finally. a new era shall begin, a forgotten lost warrior may start to make her presence felt in the competitive scene. From everyone in the Smash community:

Thank you Sakurai for making Sheik a better character.

 

[LancerStaff]

Why develop and balance a game around an engine for years.

Just to alter the strongest universal move in the game a year in?

Makes me worried about what else will be changed in the engine.

Hoping this is a test myself, because they've missed some pretty obvious junk like Aura Sphere and the patch hasn't done much else.

If not for the mechanical changes this would of been the weakest patch yet by a pretty significant margin.

 

[Rizen]

Just saying Sheik Fair on your shield is now literally +0 if she ACs it which is pretty easy.

Ganon has nothing good OoS. I'm not a master of foresight but this change is literally making pretty much every aerial 3 or 4 frames safer on block regardless of its damage because of the formula having "+3" in it. This is TERRIBLE for Ganon because with legit dumb shield break setups becoming a thing it's not gonna help. He doesn't have the speed or unpredictability to pressure shields in this game even with an additional 3 frames extra stun.

Ganon wasn't good at punishing from his shield to begin with. If he shielded up close he was in a bad position before. Ganon relies more on spacing and predicting with his bulldozer moves. It is a double edged sword for Ganon because he has to shield projectiles.

 

[evmaxy54]

Since because of the Shieldstun mechanic. Sheik has pretty much become best in the game. Only way they could change this is by probably changing her FAir endlag. Or make it so it doesn't AC.

Or revert the Shields back to what they were.

As if she wasn't already the best in the game before this patch lmao

I for one welcome the new changes, makes the game a bit better by making aggro play styles more viable (& who doesn't love some aggro ****?)

Even if it buffs Tr4shy Hobo indirectly >_>

You gurls better get working on your shield drops. No excuse to not learn them now

 

[Locke 06]

Whatever. Omega pirate ship and 4-player ffa Mario Maker were enough to make me happy. If the game ends up being bad, I can enjoy it CASUALLY.

 

[EODM07]

As if she wasn't already the best in the game before this patch lmao

I for one welcome the new changes, makes the game a bit better by making aggro play styles more viable.

Even if it buffs Tr4shy Hobo indirectly >_>

You gurls better get working on your shield drops. No excuse to not learn them now

I do agree with it promoting Rushdown playstyles. Since I do play a rather rushdown style myself. Since I was always the one to get in and never leave. Thanks to Marvel. :V

Almost forgot about the whole Highlight Reel now. That's gonna be fun, keep track of some of the best moments.

 

[Soul.]

Yo, I mean like, what the hell happened to this game LOL. Increased shieldstun with Sheik FAir existing???
Sonic???

Pikachu is potentially safer on shield than before??

Higher gap in viability???

if this game ends up dying like brawl i'll at least praise sakurai and nintendo for making the 3ds version :^)

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't think it'll die like Brawl but these changes definitely don't help a few chars. Of the ones I play, here's who it affects badly...

- Falco (poor OoS options)

Really nobody I seriously play (Mario, Doc, and Ryu are all fine this patch) but it's not a smart mechanical decision regardless. Prepare for Doc Bair walls of cancer because his Bair was already -6/-7 on block and now it'll be like pre 1.1.0 Sheik Fair on block :^)

 

[Lavani]

oh and luma reverted to the old "can interrupt your grabs and throws immediately" mechanics apparently

1.0.0 runback lets go

THE DREAM IS REAL
[vomiting intensifies]

so yeah
I wonder if anyone has guaranteed grabs off a shielded aerial now

 

[TTTTTsd]

oh and luma reverted to the old "can interrupt your grabs and throws immediately" mechanics apparently


THE DREAM IS REAL
[vomiting intensifies]

so yeah
I wonder if anyone has guaranteed grabs off a shielded aerial now

IF only you had a WiiU so I could show you the stupidity of Ryu in this patch. You can't get out of collarbone breaker at all. Fair into Strong Ftilt = Immediate Shield Break

 

[FullMoon]

I'm so mixed in regard to all this stuff lol.

I'm just gonna take a break from Smash and see what will come out of this.

 

[evmaxy54]

I don't think it'll die like Brawl but these changes definitely don't help a few chars. Of the ones I play, here's who it affects badly...

- Falco (poor OoS options)

Really nobody I seriously play (Mario, Doc, and Ryu are all fine this patch) but it's not a smart mechanical decision regardless. Prepare for Doc Bair walls of cancer because his Bair was already -6/-7 on block and now it'll be like pre 1.1.0 Sheik Fair on block :^)

Ban FD
Learn to shield drop

Simples ;3

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

 

[Lorde]

oh and luma reverted to the old "can interrupt your grabs and throws immediately" mechanics apparently

i was hoping you were wrong

but i just went into training mode and tested it out

RIP•SM4SH

 

[TTTTTsd]

i was hoping you were wrong

but i just went into training mode and tested it out

RIP•SM4SH

I really hope Rosalina can revert into the old "background character in Mario thing" next patch or something :^)

Really though I just immediately throw Rosalina and pray for the best nowadays. Or play Ryu and send Luma flying with a touch.

 

[LancerStaff]

i was hoping you were wrong

but i just went into training mode and tested it out

RIP•SM4SH

Not true. If you buffer a throw Luma can't do anything.

 

[Lorde]

I really hope Rosalina can revert into the old "background character in Mario thing" next patch or something :^)

Really though I just immediately throw Rosalina and pray for the best nowadays. Or play Ryu and send Luma flying with a touch.

Rosalina was actually the character I most wanted in Smash 4.

But then she was announced with Luma as a puppet character and I was like, "Oh no."

And then I played her for the first time in 1.0.0 and I was like, "Oh God, no."

I distinctly remember hoping that if she ever got in, she'd be Brawl Zelda tier. I wish I had been right.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

So this has officially been the WORST patch I've seen in any game. I've played other games where we've gotten questionable (and I mean very questionable) changes, but get things in return. This patch didn't really give us anything to undo its ridiculousness did it?

 

[MOI-ARI]

With that sheild stun increase i have a slight feeling the game's meta has changed, and not for the better. Or actually has not changed at all, but made the top teirs and some other approaches far harder to deal with. But we'll see how things turn out at big house. Idk. Mixed feeings about the patch atm.

 

[Locke 06]

With that sheild stun increase i have a slight feeling the game's meta has changed, and not for the better. Or actually has not changed at all, but made the top teirs and some other approaches far harder to deal with. But we'll see how things turn out at big house.

Big house is running 1.1.0


RIP shield drop utilt on a few moves.

 

[EODM07]

So this has officially been the WORST patch I've seen in any game. I've played other games where we've gotten questionable (and I mean very questionable) changes, but get things in return. This patch didn't really give us anything to undo its ridiculousness did it?

I've seen worse patches/updates.

Team Fortress 2's End of the Line Update springs to my mind as one of the worst updates/patches I played.
What we were hoping for:
- cp_snowplow
- New weapons

What we got:
- No new map because it was "Confusing for new players" (Was eventually added in the Gun Mettle Update)
- Tons of cosmetics
- A Stock Melee Weapon Reskin
- Pyro Taunt (Which I like. :3)

 

[Rizen]

I see this as a buff for Zoning characters more than rush downs. Any nerf to shields makes zoning a stronger option.

 

[Locke 06]

I see this as a buff for Zoning characters more than rush downs. Any nerf to shields makes zoning a stronger option.

Projectiles have a different equation for shield stun (as in they do less).

Interestingly, powershields decrease shield stun giving you a reason to shield (but still there's more shield stun than before...)

 

[Soul.]

Will now expect a flood of "Pikachu mains" riding on that bandwagon from this moment onward, if the increased shieldstun makes its moves safer on shield.
But hey Sheik exists. Sonic exists. Increased shieldstun with Sonic in the game is kill

 

[McKnightlíght]

Our prayers have been answered by Lord Masterhero Samurai.

Finally, a much needed global mechanic has been reworked to balance and move the game in the right direction. Most moves now do a bit more shield stun, making them a bit safer if your opponent shields your attack. What does this mean? This means that the character who needed the most amount of attention coming into this patch has finally got her time to shine and get buffed. No longer do we have to worry about our aerials and tilts being as punishable. No longer are our Fair strings incredibly unsafe on shield. No longer do we have to worry about our needles not doing enough to camp out the opponent. No longer do we have to worry about a potential OoS punish from your opponent as often, as a character that has so much trouble killing at 150+%. She finally got some well-needed buffs to become even relevant in our metagame.

With rolls and airdodges losing a frame of invincibility, this also gives our lost warrior some new hope, using her speed to catch poor defensive options faster, and at the same time maintain very safe shield pressure. Whether the opponent is in shield or in a defensive option, it seems like she is now able to do something about either. As well, we no longer have to worry about that blue hair girl with the cutting board chest's shield breaker, or Dong's headbutt, as their shield damage output has been reduced severely. This gives her much needed survivability against these broken and cancerous characters.

Finally, no longer do we have to worry about broken moves that come out on frame 7 and kill you at 50% just because you threw out an unsafe move on shield. Finally, the tyrant in Zelda gets what she deserved for being so powerful. No longer can she punish moves on her shield as well with her UpB, and with her customs buffed dramatically, it's a huge sigh of relief that customs are now banned in tournaments, which would otherwise cause massive problems in the metagame. And finally. a new era shall begin, a forgotten lost warrior may start to make her presence felt in the competitive scene. From everyone in the Smash community:

Thank you Sakurai for making Sheik a better character.

tl;dr Pick Sheik -@Beserker.

 

[KarmaCastle]

Jab now acts as a pseudo infinite lockdown :^) I'm posting this in the patch thread too, but...

 

[Rizen]

Projectiles have a different equation for shield stun (as in they do less).

Interestingly, powershields decrease shield stun giving you a reason to shield (but still there's more shield stun than before...)

Projectiles got shield stun buffs too, or at least Link's did. I consider some non-projectile characters like Marth zoners.

 

[KarmaCastle]

Anyone notice how Zelda's half-turned victory pose looks more bummed than her loss + clap one?

 

[Rizen]

I'm waiting for a call then I have to go but can wifi in the mean time. Would anyone like to play a few games of smash?