Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Trieste SP]

i'm afraid of the swordfighter page @ Trieste SP do my bidding and scout the area for me while i go to bed
nvm its actually pretty good

It doesn't even exist.

They actually didn't even bother.

It just shows how much people care about this character lol.

Sad but true.

 

[smokebomb12]

Does anyone want to play Smash for a little bit?

 

[LancerStaff]

I can rattle off a long list of things in disagreement. I, personally, would call them semi-clones, whilst characters like Dark Pit and Lucina would be clones. It all comes down to a matter of semantics and personal opinion.

Semi clone = clone. Really all there is to say on the matter.

 

[FullMoon]

Does anyone want to play Smash for a little bit?

I could play some, though it might lag.

 

[NekoJubei]

Well gorls I'm sleepy af
Good night everyone!

 

[smokebomb12]

I could play some, though it might lag.

I will add you and will host. if thats ok with you.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

I liked this post mainly because its a Ru Pauls Drag Race gif.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Well gorls I'm sleepy af
Good night everyone!

Zelda is cadaverific with that pale corpse-like skin.

 

[FullMoon]

I will add you and will host. if thats ok with you.

Sure.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Semi clone = clone. Really all there is to say on the matter.

It all comes down to a matter of semantics and personal opinion.

Sheesh, what's your problem trying to shove your opinion in my face? The "matter" was already done with. I asked if you were serious about about calling them clones due to the emote at the end of the initial statement, and replied to your honestly, in my eyes, passive-aggressive-seeming reply by pointing out I have a different view than you but make a point to say 'w/e man thats ur opinion" to move on, yet you insist on dragging it on by continuing to reply to the topic of semi-clones vs clones when it's already done with.

Like

We're done and have been done here.

Well gorls I'm sleepy af
Good night everyone!
View attachment 62940

Goodnight.

 

[☆Jazz☆]

Another awful, corny, crappy motivatal poster made by yours truly.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Another awful, corny, crappy motivatal poster made by yours truly.

I don't understand the joke though. .__.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I never said camping isn't fundamental play, you made that up. I main Link; I know camping. What I said was the game becomes more campy and that makes it less enjoyable to watch. By campy as opposed to fundamentals I mean that customs make SSB4 much more about avoiding the opponent and relying exploits or jank.

Sorry if I misread you but you must agree that the way you wrote it lead to misinterpretations:
The metagame will revolve around camping and exploits rather than good fundamental play.
Now, please, please, please, PLEASE. Stop saying Brawl is bad. It's seriously compromising your point and I can't reply properly because I ignore those Brawl parts and they're so mixed with your argument that the point gets missed.

That aside

Yes, they were defined. I have good points that you have no answer to. Really you haven't addressed any key points about balance. The closest thing you've said to support customs is they make WFT and Palutena viable but that's easily defeated by all the worse MUs and characters customs create. You're just finding elaborate ways to ignore that fact that customs make SSB4 less balanced, more reliant on abusing exploits or avoiding them, create more polarized MUs, and make matches take longer to setup.

Villager's camping is a thing. He's going to camp/zone out regardless of having customs or not. Customs allow this to be more viable, so if characters didn't have a response for his default camping, chances are they won't have it for the Custom one (though reality is, some characters actually GAIN tools to deal with it), so that's not more polarizing, and maybe Villager is able to cover few of his weaknesses with his new customs, but if he is not winning an awful lot of tournaments it means he's not hurting the overall balance of the game because he can be beaten. He's just a nuisance, not a threat. People do not like to deal with annoying stuff, but that is a mentality thing.
Same with Sonic: His Hammer Dash has a new arc, but it has about as low priority as the default one and to make things worse, if he performs it in the air and has already spent his second jump, he's STUCK in that arc at least until he hits the ground: a free punish a lot of people miss because they're unfamiliar with this new arc. If people are unfamiliar with it and so they miss their chances, the fault is not of the Customs. So, it's neither more polarizing nor unbalanced (characters unable to catch default Sonic are likely unable to catch Custom Sonic as well).

Things with customs become different. A different meta that hasn't fully developed, and people are kneejerking against.

But you know what? If you say once again I'm not addressing the points, then I'm done, done with the whole argument, and done with it probably forever, I don't care about it anymore as it will be buried as hard as stage debates are: just pointless arguments because IT'S FAR MORE EASIER TO BAN THAN TO EXPLORE, and if an easier, braindead game is what you people want, then go ahead and watch how quickly it becomes stale.

 

[☆Jazz☆]

Oh.

Spoiler

[

 

[r_greening1]

Oh.

I think I need an adult

 

[☆Jazz☆]

 

[Ffamran]

Definitely, Falco just have too little going for him to be place anywhere near top 20. Although, I really wouldn't mind him to continue getting buffs in the future patches. I hope they decrease the endlag for some of his moves.

Falco, Dr. Mario, and Kirby's saving grace is that for "low-tiers", they're incredibly strong. By strong, I mean damage and knockback. Compare this to Samus, Triple D, and Zelda where they're underwhelming like Samus and Triple D while the other three are lightweights and a middleweight or they're really limited and you have to be precise with them to do much like Samus and Zelda. Falco, Dr. Mario, and Kirby kill with almost all of their moves with Falco only having jab, dash attack, Ftilt, Nair, F-throw, D-throw, and his Specials as impractical or not kill moves. Everything else kills like Bair, Up Smash, Side Smash, and Dtilt or late kills like Utilt and Down Smash. These three also have amazing advantages, but their neutrals and/or disadvantages are bad. Then there's the poor mobility, light weights, and poor recoveries - if Kirby is ever forced to use Final Cutter, he's screwed.

Falco running at between Ryu and DK's speed and/or having much less end lag on Blaster, Dr. Mario having more weight, running at least Olimar's run speed, and maybe being even stronger, and Kirby having reasonable boosts to his running and air speed would all make them better characters. Not game-changing, though, but better considering how mobility is in Smash where if you don't have a good projectile(s) like Luigi and Mega Man to counter your slower mobility, you're at a disadvantage. The irony of these three are they're fundamentally well designed characters. Triple D too, but there's something about him that just doesn't click. If each heavy had a defined role where Ganondorf is the punisher, Bowser is the brawler, Charizard is the "berserker", then Triple D is pretty much the tank. He absorbs damage, but he doesn't deal damage or kill well. Sure, his attacks are strong, but they're kind of underwhelming compared to Ganondorf who does take the tank role as well since he doesn't have a projectile and is forced to tank hits while Triple D could use Gordos to zone a bit and trap.

The other misconception with Falco is that his end lag isn't bad outside of Blaster and Reflector - if it hits, whatever, but on shield, it's horrible. People didn't notice it since they couldn't do anything when he kept laser spamming and comboing you to death in Melee and Brawl, so without that, he's super slow now. After the patch, Falco has lower landing lag than Fox while also auto-canceling the same moves as Fox: Nair, Uair, and Bair. Falco actually acts out of Up Smash, Down Smash, Uair, Bair, and Falco Phantasm faster than Fox. Everything else involves Falco acting maybe 3 frames on average slower. That's not bad which is a reason why his close range game is strong and maybe even better than Fox's since he hits harder while ending slightly slower. It's the end lag on Blaster that kills since unlike Fox, Falco can't act until 26 frames later while also being much slower, so he can't move out as fast as Fox. Set knockback doesn't help since his Blaster stuns while a single needle from Sheik lifts you into the air and she can act out 11 frames earlier and with full Needles, 5 frames earlier with each needle causing knockback.

Pros
- fantastic advantage state; he combos because you're stupid and he reads you which is devastating considering his damage and knockback
- among the fastest hitters in the game
- above average landing lag - blame Sheik, ZSS, and Kirby for having like little landing lag
- high jump
- has a wall jump
- fast walk speed
- has a good edgeguarding game unlike Fox
- kills as he combos; combos as he kills
- has 2 kill throws
- all of his throws can be used to setup into things
- useful, versatile Reflector
- Utilt, Up Smash, Nair, Fair, and Dair all linger

Cons
- pretty much a nonexistent neutral; major issue when even Ganondorf can force Falco to approach by standing there and powershielding lasers if ever necessary
- bad disadvantage; not as bad as having a bad neutral since Captain Falcon's disadvantage is also bad
- a projectile that has high risk and low reward unlike Zelda who has an unreliable high risk/high reward Din's Fire
- poor recovery; Fire Bird travels shorter than Fire Fox while having the same startup and Falco Phantasm's hitbox is borked
- slow running speed and air speed
- except for low percent stuff like Utilt chains, Falco does not have true combos
- has the worst and most unreliable kill throws in the game
- light weight made worse by being a fast faller with bad air speed
- short range on his aerials; mostly centered around him or near him
- inability to cover below him; only Dair and downwards Fire Bird hits below him and they're both +16 frame moves and heavily telegraphed

*checks out ikes frame data*
holly schist @ McKnightlíght was not kidding when he said Swordfighter is faster

He's using a two-handed sword... He's not using a butter knife like Meta Knight and MSF and it's more like how Toon Link is a kid with a slab for a sword. Link, the Pits, Marth, Lucina, and Roy are using more normal swords, well, all of them, but Link whose Master Sword is, I think, a longsword, so it's heavier and him using it one-handed most of the time along with his unorthodox swordsmanship like Ike's doesn't help his swing speed.

 

[Cress!]

I was looking at Smash wiki about Greninja's pros and cons and...







I can't even



Water Shuriken is a slow projectile

Brawl Lucas had the exact opposite, it only listed good things about him and only said 1 negative point being he can get abused by Marth and that's why he was a low tier character.

 

[FullMoon]

My cousin is trying to sleep so I have to stop now.

Fighting Link in lag is so frustrating.

 

[smokebomb12]

My cousin is trying to sleep so I have to stop now.

Fighting Link in lag is so frustrating.

Lag is the worst. Your greninja Is phenomenal. I have to learn the MU. Got any tips? could you critique my Play please?

 

[☆Jazz☆]

My cousin is trying to sleep so I have to stop now.

Fighting Link in lag is so frustrating.

Link in Lag makes me cringe. So much.

 

[FullMoon]

Lag is the worst. Your greninja Is phenomenal. I have to learn the MU. Got any tips? could you critique my Play please?

You probably caught up on that already but don't ever airdodge after Greninja's throws lol.

Granted if you don't airdodge I can punish you with other things.

The rest I can't say much because I kept letting you land so easily because lag didn't let me juggle you properly or use any of my kill setups on you.

 

[smokebomb12]

Link in Lag makes me cringe. So much.

Do I have to get on Zelda with lag?

 

[Rizen]

Talking to pro custom people is like talking to climate change deniers. Believe whatever you want.
This sums up my thoughts on customs:

Spoiler

This whole pro custom sound byte reminds me of planking in Brawl. Gather round and I will tell you a tale:

Plank, the player, discovered he could abuse the ledge invulnerability to have an advantage over the opponent, thus creating "planking". People said this is stupid and the game will revolve around planking and other people accused them of "not being able to deal with it". People could deal with planking but only by putting themselves at a disadvantage any time the opponent ran to a ledge. The competitive meta largely did revolve around planking and other jank because competitive smash is about abusing what works. Planking was so powerful for some characters like MK that the rules were changed to limit ledge grabs, how many times you could pass under the stage and grab the other ledge, as well as banning otherwise good stage CPs like Norfair and Brinstar. The competitive matches ended up very campy and boring with only a handful of characters being viable. Fans were few as not many enjoyed seeing that. It was largely considered a joke among competitive fighting games. Fundamentals were second to powerful exploits like planking, chain grabs, etc. This was a dark time for smash.

Then SSB4 came out with an improved ledge system and balance patches. There was much rejoicing. SSB4 had the most character diversity in competitive play of any smash game despite some characters being obviously better than others. Jank everyone hated like Hoo Haw was patched out. It was glorious.
But all good things must come to an end. People discovered they could put the jank back into SSB4 by legalizing customs. Smash 4 revolved less around fundamentals and more around exploiting customs. Customs also made the game take longer and less balanced. Yet people defended customs by saying "learn to deal with this unnecessary, added jank". The dark clouds had returned to competitive smash.

 

[Cress!]

So by BAN•EVERYTHING, do you mean do something like this?
Ban special moves, ban aerials, ban walking, ban running, ban jumping, ban the character select screen, ban GameCube Controllers, ban Wii Remotes, ban the Gamepad, ban TVs, ban tournaments, and most of all...

BAN•ORGANIC•BANANAS

 

[ぱみゅ]

Talking to pro custom people is like talking to climate change deniers. Believe whatever you want.

And now we're evil. Great.

 

[Ffamran]

BAN•ORGANIC•BANANAS

Banana?

 

[FullMoon]

Banana?

If you posted that on tumblr you would probably not get out of there alive lol

The minion hate is real.

 

[Koiba]

Link in Lag makes me cringe. So much.

MY ADVENTURES IN LAG~

- Oh, your trying to actually combo in lag? And oops I didn't know you didn't mean to do offstage 'cause of some choppy lag :D

- Oh, you couldn't get the rest 'cause of some random lag came in? Sorry get better internet skreb :D

- What I input

What the game thinks

- Oh, you did a smash attack? Sorry thought it was a jab :D

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

If you posted that on tumblr you would probably not get out of there alive lol

The minion hate is real.

The sad part is that I can confirm this.

 

[Ffamran]

If you posted that on tumblr you would probably not get out of there alive lol

The minion hate is real.

But I couldn't find a lot of funny (and appropriate) banana gifs. Meanwhile, corn.

 

[Furret]

And now we're evil. Great.

I thought he was opting out for stupid
I'm helpful today

Who the hell said Shulk and Ike suck?
View attachment 62937

wow I can't believe you hit women

But I couldn't find a lot of funny (and appropriate) banana gifs. Meanwhile, corn.

whaaaa............................

 

[Rizen]

I'm helpful today

No, you're not.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm for a default-meta rather than customs. I'm not a fan of customs, buuuuuut I wouldn't get to that point where I'd insult or name-call those who support customs

So yeah. Hugs

 

[Rickster]

So I just stomed on some crazy spider with a nearby shoe.

It stayed still for a second then got back up and I nearly fell over from shock.

Thankfully I was able to stomp it again+5 times to make sure it didn't get away AND THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY DEAD.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Ok, can we be finished with the whole customs argument now?


Anyway, let's talk about how a guy in a nearbyish smash community was very excited to get Wooly World as a legal stage for his weeklies.


I guess he just really hates Little Mac probably.

 

[Furret]

No, you're not.

really? shocker

Ok, can we be finished with the whole customs argument now?

I said my two bits on it, I was done pages ago

 

[Rizen]

I'm for a default-meta rather than customs. I'm not a fan of customs, buuuuuut I wouldn't get to that point where I'd insult or name-call those who support customs

So yeah. Hugs

Anti custom people are the ones calling the other side "lazy" and "scrubs".

 

[McKnightlíght]

I said my two bits on it, I was done pages ago

Then I probably wasn't talking to you.


But now I am, how are you today Bluecrow? Are you going back to school this fall?

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Anti custom people are the ones calling the other side "lazy" and "scrubs".

On the grand scale of insults, "Lazy" and "Scrubs" are not very damaging. You're taking this way more seriously than you need too.