Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[ZombieBran]

Off topic but I'm trying to reason why Sakurai felt the need to nerf Ike's range or any of his moves, really.

Actually it's on topic because the same exact thing can be said for Zelda.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I'm guessing it has to do with that "all models built from scratch" and some nerfs just happen. Or maybe he thought it was a little too much reach for all that power...would explain zeldas range nerfs sorta kinda maybe/not

 

[Berserker.]

Off topic but I'm trying to reason why Sakurai felt the need to nerf Ike's range or any of his moves, really.

Actually it's on topic because the same exact thing can be said for Zelda.

During development:
"Alright. So I got an idea about Shulk.... Shulk's gonna be all about range! But we have to make that clear.... Let's nerf some of the range of some characters so that it's obvious that Shulk's range is amazing!" -Some guy

I don't know. Or because he felt like it

 

[Upke]

Reverting her now ****ty kicks with Melee kicks and letting nair have less than 20 frames of landing lag would alone help Zelda so much.

 

[Katy Parry]

Reverting her now ****ty kicks with Melee kicks and letting nair have less than 20 frames of landing lag would alone help Zelda so much.

Are her kicks really the problem, though? I feel like its just her short hop and the way she handles in the air compared to Melee.

 

[ZombieBran]

So balance patches are a thing! Even if this one brought zero to few changes.

Watch as they reduce the range on Zelda's roll cancel pivot grab and change nothing else.

 

[Mocha]

Love you too Fuj :D

Nayru's 'slide thingy' in Brawl was no more useful than Mario cape sliding off a platform or edge into... a fair spike or such. It was something you could do, yes, but the question of viability was something else entirely. Been perfectly aware of this, and that hasn't changed since. The purpose of that video was to show that it existed, and for throwing your opponent off with unpredictability, not to score your lovely FW cancel to dair on them.

Nice thread title btw

 

[Upke]

Are her kicks really the problem, though? I feel like its just her short hop and the way she handles in the air compared to Melee.

They aren't "the problem" per se, moreso they barely contribute to Zelda's game in Smash 4. With them being so insanely laggy and having the sweetspot further inside the hitbox, you can no longer use them to force your opponent to respect your kick range. They aren't threatening, so fast characters are able to wildly approach Zelda.

 

[BJN39]

Ahem,

1.0.3 WIP Changelist (And a couple other not 100% confirmed things.)

Okay, I went through each move of Zelda's to find any changes. There seem to be at least a couple true changes, and a couple POSSIBLE changes that were made:

PS, I tested it all, damages, approx KO %s, angles, etc.

NAir
* The Approximate KO % seems to be changed around a little. It KOs slightly earlier than before on the final hit AT HER HANDS while the center hit-box appears to KO slightly later. (Hands: 242% // Middle: 285%)

Standard Special [1] - Nayru's Love
* This one was probably just something I missed before when testing Nayru's Love, but apparently the center hit-boxes of the final hit are slightly more powerful than the tip hit-boxes. (Center: 277% // Tip: 349%)
* The move's IASA appears to start slightly later. Needs more testing, but when using it it felt slower, and I try to 'memorize' the visual of the IASA "Frame", and the IASA "Frame Visual" looks different than it used to, I think.

Standard Special [3] - Nayru's Passion
* The explosion hit-box feels like it has better range. It felt puny last time I tested the move, and could hardly hit above/below her, but now it feels like it can hit very well above and below her. I'm not sure 100% though if this is a true change.

Down Special [1] - Phantom Slash
* The fully charged phantom slash appears to KO slightly earlier. I'm not 100% sure, but the damage difference seems too large to just be a change-in-testing-style error. (KO%: 136% < Both hits, fully charged. Used to be 145%.)

Down Special [3] - Phantom Breaker
* Similarly to variation 1's power boost, this one appears to have a slight power NERF at full charge. But I'm FAR less sure about this one, as it was only a 4% difference. So THIS one actually could have been a testing-style-change inconsistency.

As you can see, the found changes are very small, and likely won't make an difference in custom variation choice, or competitive viability. Anything you don't see here appeared to be unchanged as far as I could tell. I even tested her pivot grab, and we can rest easy knowing it has the same range.

This is what I found so far.

 

[Katy Parry]

Ahem,

1.0.3 WIP Changelist (And a couple other not 100% confirmed things.)


This is what I found so far.

Great work! Seems like she's got some tiny buffs!

 

[Thinkaman]

There are no changes to any character files in 1.0.3. It is not a balance patch.

 

[2004Zilla]

It appears that people are in cahoots. Who do I trust, and who is out to get me?

I don't think I've said this before so I'll just say I hope she plays better on the Wii U because I'll have to main her since Ridley didn't make it.

 

[ZombieBran]

There are no changes to any character files in 1.0.3. It is not a balance patch.

Has Nintendo released anything about it? I ask because you sound sure.

 

[Thinkaman]

Has Nintendo released anything about it? I ask because you sound sure.

Dantarion dumped and ran a diff. No character files were changed in any way from 1.0.2 to 1.0.3.

 

[ZombieBran]

Dantarion dumped and ran a diff. No character files were changed in any way from 1.0.2 to 1.0.3.

Cheers!

Maybe they slightly changed the spawn rate of some items that no one cares about and that's why they used the word "balance."

 

[Thinkaman]

Maybe they slightly changed the spawn rate of some items that no one cares about and that's why they used the word "balance."

Keep in mind that these online help files are written by regional interns twice removed from the dev team. They are just following protocol, and this seems to be a generic statement that is always posted.

It does imply that there will be balance changes in the future though.

Keep in mind that this patch was probably completed and submitted for international testing shortly after or before the North American release.

 

[BJN39]

Dantarion dumped and ran a diff. No character files were changed in any way from 1.0.2 to 1.0.3.

Well, I suppose that the things I found were simply the same data! Thanks for the clarification. I guess I'll not preview these as changes, but simply new-found data.

Either way, I found new data! :D

 

[Keo-bas]

Hello every one. Zelda main since Melee and now playing 3ds zelda. Hope I can contribute something soon

 

[2004Zilla]

Hello every one. Zelda main since Melee and now playing 3ds zelda. Hope I can contribute something soon

To contribute you must make a sacrifice for our princess so she can get to high tier.

 

[Squii The Fish]

Dacus has been confirmed.

Been trying to see how far zelda's goes but i have been working too much on ledge canceling and roll canceled magic grab today. Out of lazyness can anyone tell me how useful her dacus is this time around?

 

[Alacion]

Shield a laggy attack. Farore's Wind out of it. 2-hit finish. Profit. Netted some real good kills with that. And I'm finally back to a 2/3 win rate on For Glory, haha.

Learn to do this instead of gimmicks like the ledge cancel. Won't work anyway unless you travel tons.

 

[Soluble Toast]

Dair > Kick kills always feel so good.

 

[SBphiloz4]

As Aleate said, FW out of shield is actually really good. Been punishing Bowser's Fair and Yoshi's Bair with that for the clutch kills.

I'll try and play more For Glory to get some decent highlight material for Zelda to put in one big video, haha. And wow, everyone uses Red Zelda.

 

[Soluble Toast]

I mostly play the purple Zelda, but occassionally use other palettes. Except the white one. I really can't stand that palette.

 

[Mocha]

Interesting... I thought the white one was the most popular? Also, I don't understand what's the deal with her alternate blonde one. Was that supposed to be Hilda?

 

[Upke]

Green Zelda 4 lyfe.

 

[ZombieBran]

I use white and default mostly.

 

[Keo-bas]

To contribute you must make a sacrifice for our princess so she can get to high tier.

I can only offer the stocks of those fallen before her Eminence.

 

[Rickster]

White and default are my favorites too.

 

[evmaxy54]

I love the white one it's so purdy

 

[BJN39]

I don't think I've ever even USED any other color but black Zelda in SSB4. She nah fave. <3

I'm glad most people it appears, don't pick black Zelda either.

 

[2004Zilla]

White dress Zelda is sexy.

So is the blue one.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I usually like the alts where the hair color changes. Mostly black and pink (those black boots).

Also, I don't understand what's the deal with her alternate blonde one. Was that supposed to be Hilda?

Basically, it's Brawl's pink palette turned purple. It was already innacurate to the OoT Zelda by the way... And still innacurate (the purple from OoT3DS is lighter.) I wonder why they didn't changed the jewelry... They did it for the red and black one after all.

And the pink one is ALttP / ALBW.

 

[Kendude]

Black alt is the best alt. She looks great with silver hair.

Blue is really nice too.

 

[Meru.]

I used to use the white one the most, but then I discovered everybody used it and I'm a hipster, so now I don't used it anymore!

Using any colour except for the black one since it looks depressing. Playing Zelda is already depressing as it is so I need some cheerful colours to return my optimism.

Wii U version isn't even out yet. She'll play much better on there. More precise controlls might mean precise teleporting, as well as just better reaction time etc.

Problem is, everyone will play better as well.

Except Little Mac.

/ban

Zelda is probably one of the least character to profit from the Wii U. The only thing I see that might benefit her, is that she can do reverse Fsmashes or stuff out of dashes easier... but there a lot of characters who benefit from that.

Oh, and her sparkles will sparkle twice as much on the Wii U version. Sparkle Sparkle!

 

[ぱみゅ]

Sparkles are Zelda's reason of existence.

 

[Berserker.]

I like the white one

I'd choose the black one but her hair's white so no

 

[Rizen]

Sparkle Sparkle!

Simpsons reference?

 

[Keo-bas]

Had very poor showing last time I played Zelda, is it me or is Pac-man what zelda was suppose to be? Face a competent pac and it left me spiritually broken. I even question her highness worth....

But I am left a bit wiser so I will share what i think of this match up.

Spoiler

Do not challenge his Air dominance, most pac man will be jump happy. which hurts zelda's ground game.

Spiking or edge guarding Pac a challenge since his recovery game is pretty strong and versatile. not sure what I can recommend here.

Not fully sure but it seem hydrant still retains hitbox after being launched as projectile. Their was time Phantom took a blow and hydrant still kept it's momentum and hit me. Phantom May not be helpful in this match up.

Water push is will disorient your zoning. Subtle use phantom as its very likely for phantom to be push of.....with you along with it.



Naryu love.. and Faeroi wind are your best tools for this mathc up. But committing to them will be challenge since you need to have good grasp of teh pac man player habit. Dont ignore them but don't over commit to them either.

While its possible to reflect pac projectiles, I recommend actually grabbing the item so you can keep it hostage. this way pac will be force to take the initiative and will likely chase you. Fortunately you can still use your special which Zelda should focus on imo.

My final note.
Zelda vs Pac is more of en endurance match. I believe Zelda Simpy wants to out live pac and win technicality because she can't take the initiative with out risk. Her Ko potential seem rather limited so once gain stock lead i suggest keep away as much as possible. even if sudden death is to occur i think Zelda sill fares better as can deal with sudden deaths random bombs with naryu love.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Pac isn't that fast though, to me he's more like wario/jiggly but can camp sort of. I've stopped seeing pac in for glory though. I'm more afraid of yoshi than anything else though