Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Lorde]

Yeah, but people with around 10 frames of landing lag for at least 2 moves would be Lucario, Sheik, Fox - sort of pushes this with a frame 15 Bair landing -, Mario, Dr. Mario - his landing lag is like 1-2 frames longer than Mario's. Really, devs? Really? -, Luigi, Wario, Diddy, ZSS, Link, and Captain Falcon.

Ike's landing lag is pretty good for a character like him. Slowest is Dair with 26 frames while everything else excluding air dodges are below 19 frames. Then you add that his Fair and Bair auto-cancels and yeah, he's pretty good in the air. Pit's is... pitiful considering this is a dude who is supposedly comfortable in the air and landings even though he can't willingly fly. Ditto on Meta Knight and Marth having average landing lag, but none of this takes into account of auto-canceling since I don't know what moves Meta Knight can auto-cancel out of.

Falco's freaking landing lag is as average as can be. Slowest is Fair at 32 frames, then Dair at 26, and everything else including Nair of all freaking moves at 15. On average, that's 21 frames with and without air dodge. Dair just looks slow as sin when dealing with landing lag - it's 4 frames faster than Ganondorf's Stomp landing and 5 frames slower than Captain Falcon's Nipple spike landing -, but it's supposedly slightly slower than air dodge and then there's Uair which looks slow since he bounces back up, but since it auto-cancels, it doesn't really matter.

I think most of the cast has average landing lag, but then you have outliers, especially Sheik, Fox, ZSS, and Captain Falcon who can continue comboing after landing like nothing matters.

Zelda's LL is really awful with 22/23/25/22/21 across the board (that's in nair fair bair uair dair order). Pikachu has it even worse with 25/15/30/24/40. 15 frames for fair isn't bad, but the rest is pretty awful. Bowser's landing lag is just painful to look at.

Sheik really relies on minimal landing lag, though. If she couldn't combo, then she'd be a ton worse. She needs to have stupid frame date because she cannot kill. She probably could be toned down a bit by giving her worse frame data but giving her some kill power. Maybe her frame data as of now is a bit over the top.

 

[Furret]

I thought our social got deleted because the title misled me to think it was the MU thread ;o;. Small heartattack

lol I would believe it

new page

 

[kenniky]

Zelda's LL is really awful with 22/23/25/22/21 across the board (that's in nair fair bair uair dair order). Pikachu has it even worse with 25/15/30/24/40. 15 frames for fair isn't bad, but the rest is pretty awful. Bowser's landing lag is just painful to look at.

Sheik really relies on minimal landing lag, though. If she couldn't combo, then she'd be a ton worse. She needs to have stupid frame date because she cannot kill. She probably could be toned down a bit by giving her worse frame data but giving her some kill power. Maybe her frame data as of now is a bit over the top.

Sheik kind of exemplifies minimal risk minimal reward imo

like she's a fairly well designed character other than the fact that frame data and 0 lag invalidates half the cast

lol I would believe it

new page
View attachment 50094

how did you take 3 pages in a row

 

[Soul.]

Does landing lag mean anything when most, if not every aerial Pika does autocancels???
well except bair but like, wat

 

[2004Zilla]

That's pretty good. Keep practicing

What? idk what your talking about gurl It's a good drawing

ftfy

Thanks gu-

Fujmar

lol wtf

 

[kenniky]

Thanks gu-

wtf

fujin is back

 

[Lorde]

I was going to reply if it's easy to execute but I guess not :/ (I bet Lavani is like all the Rosie players senpai)

It's not that difficult to do imo. Here's a video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLPK_JcVkb8

Does landing lag mean anything when most, if not every aerial Pika does autocancels???
well except bair but like, wat

Pikachu's landing lag doesn't really matter. However, that still doesn't change the fact that his landing lag data is really awful.

 

[Kofu]

@ warionumbah2 I'm not a MK player and I've only fought a handful of ones that I thought were good, so this is mostly from reading your posts (and some of SolidSense's), but the gist about MK's MUs is that while his neutral is good he's very reliant on it to get things going, so against characters who have a better neutral, he struggles, no? Obviously losing neutral in general isn't a certain death sentence (see: Ganon) but it seems like MK really needs to win it to do anything worthwhile since his general damage output is so poor outside of his specials. I mean, I think he's a good character (10-20 range, probably closer to 15) but I can see him losing to the neutral heavy top tiers.

 

[2004Zilla]

fujin is back

I had this idea where we add a Warning Received to the OP every time he makes a dupe account.

 

[Soul.]

Pikachu's landing lag doesn't really matter. However, that still doesn't change the fact that his landing lag data is really awful.

I get that, I was just saying. I know its landing lag data sucks.

 

[Furret]

Does landing lag mean anything when most, if not every aerial Pika does autocancels???
well except bair but like, wat

yes, but it's obviously more move and character dependent,
if you want to land with an aerial outside of autocancel frames

 

[Rickster]

@FujmaR LOL I just got your username joke.

Oh and the Rosalina MU thing was also based on how easy it is for us to KO Luma and how we can edgeguard Rosalinda for days. At least I think so, I didn't actually participate in the discussion because I'm bad at that, lol.

Plus @ Macchiato did horrifying things to one of them.

 

[Antonykun]

Spoiler

 

[Rizen]

@FujmaR LOL I just got your username joke.

Next it will be 'fujin.' after a certain Shulk maining mod who hangs around here.

 

[Antonykun]

Next it will be 'fujin.' after a certain Shulk maining mod who hangs around here.

more like fujinzerker.

 

[|ven|]

I'm almost there gorls ;o;.​

 

[Lavani]

Even if pika doesn't want to autocancel he can just dair into the floor because landing hitboxes are dumb and it compresses his hurtbox anyway, and fair's landing lag is so low that ff fair> dash attack is a true combo

 

[|ven|]

Ven cyst explain how this new ladder works

Why isn't it just numbers anymore?

It's ranked how league is. Not that I play league but Gold I is the highest. then it goes down from there to Gold I, Gold II, Gold III Down to Silver I, etc.

 

[FullMoon]

It's ranked how league is. Not that I play league but Gold I is the highest. then it goes down from there to Gold I, Gold II, Gold III Down to Silver I, etc.

Actually there's ranks higher than Gold. There's Platinum and Master as well.

The new ranking system is needlessly complicated though.

 

[warionumbah2]

@ warionumbah2 I'm not a MK player and I've only fought a handful of ones that I thought were good, so this is mostly from reading your posts (and some of SolidSense's), but the gist about MK's MUs is that while his neutral is good he's very reliant on it to get things going, so against characters who have a better neutral, he struggles, no? Obviously losing neutral in general isn't a certain death sentence (see: Ganon) but it seems like MK really needs to win it to do anything worthwhile since his general damage output is so poor outside of his specials. I mean, I think he's a good character (10-20 range, probably closer to 15) but I can see him losing to the neutral heavy top tiers.

Pretty much.

His ground game is top tier i got everything i need(and things characters wish they had). But his lack of sh aerials hurts him. Alot. A good MKs combo on average does 20-25% not counting footstool variations(certain characters 20-30%), bad MKs like Unknowns(yes i don't think he's good) will deal low damage combo's because he doesn't finish it properly nor does he know combo's one should be going for at certain percents.

Alot of characters have better neutral but very few characters have a better ground game than MK, that's why top tiers are dumb.

Have strong ground game and sh aerials AND projectiles(Sonic and Falcon are projectiles when running).

What i don't get is how beats MK so bad when her damage per hit is awful and rage goes against her. MK still has 25% combo's in rage, MK ends her stock below 100% with rage. BF is a good stage cause blastzones and Sheik will not edgeguard him unless she gets a surprise bouncing fish. Sheik forces Mk to approach but where else is MK gonna go? He's always at mid range and that's the closest he'll go to you.

I actually don't think Falcon beats MK but that's like me and maybe another MK against the rest of MKs saying its bad. So now im like **** it. If its strictly 'neutral' that makes MK lose to these guys he may as well lose to half the cast.

/Fin

 

[2004Zilla]

lol omg what is this????

Why/how did they remove my account from my own post???

THEY WANT TO ERASE YOU FROM HISTORY

 

[|ven|]

Actually there's ranks higher than Gold. There's Platinum and Master as well.

The new ranking system is needlessly complicated though.

Oh yeah I know but I think Anther limited it to Gold and the numbers its kidna of like a tier in the tier LOL if that makes sense I being the best one

 

[UkeNicky]

My actual reaction when Luma gets knocked off stage or someone actually goes out of their way to kill Phantom~

 

[spiderfreak1011]

I hate not being able to draw well.

Damn didn't realize the quality was that ****.

I think the quality is pretty good as an drawer myself, but it's good that you're not overpraising your work. I've seen some cocky/super prideful artists whose artwork is crap because they think it's great and don't put in the effort to improve.

 

[Lorde]

My actual reaction when Luma gets knocked off stage or someone actually goes out of their way to kill Phantom~

LSP is the best character in Adventure Time. This is non-debatable.

 

[Antonykun]

My actual reaction when Luma gets knocked off stage or someone actually goes out of their way to kill Phantom~

or when they destroy my tree

 

[Macchiato]

Plus @ Macchiato did horrifying things to one of them.

 

[Kofu]

@ Lavani what do the different symbols under the clanking column mean? 's DTilt has a triangle but according to Master Core it's a typical "clanks and ends if clanked" move. It's his only attack that different than normal. Mario's FSmash also has a triangle, for what it's worth.

 

[UkeNicky]

or when they destroy my tree

Omg yes ;^;
Btw gurl the Killager recolor in your avatar is my absolute fave she's the best.

But yeah, serious question to everybody but is it just me or does Phantom die REALLY easily?
Like, PacMan's Fire Hydrant seems more resilient it really pisses me off especially with the extra time we have to wait now before using Phantom.
And as of now I'm naming the Phantom. I shall call him Eugene.

 

[|ven|]

The acerbity of the Red Tyrants knows no ends...


I shall noT faulter though.

You make me want to play FF12 again

 

[Lorde]

I've been playing a lot of recently. I used to find him strange to play in Melee and Brawl, but now I think he's fun. His move set is very unique, to say the least.

I'm still really salty that they took out his light blue palette. Now I don't really know which one to use. :'(

 

[Fernosaur]

You around to play, kiddo?

 

[Koiba]

I think the quality is pretty good as an drawer myself, but it's good that you're not overpraising your work. I've seen some cocky/super prideful artists whose artwork is crap because they think it's great and don't put in the effort to improve.

That speech is beautiful your probably my drawing senpai now. My other senpai's are all the other players here and Macchi

 

[Lavani]

@ Lavani what do the different symbols under the clanking column mean? 's DTilt has a triangle but according to Master Core it's a typical "clanks and ends if clanked" move. It's his only attack that different than normal. Mario's FSmash also has a triangle, for what it's worth.

◯ = Clanks
● = Clanks but continues uninterrupted
× = Transcendent
△ = Differing properties between hitboxes (ex. ROB nair has a transcendent hitbox and a clanking hitbox)

 

[kenniky]

I'm still really salty that they took out his light blue palette. Now I don't really know which one to use. :'(

I feel the same. I ended up using the white (light grey?) one

 

[Lavani]

What are you talking about?



Also speaking of Red Tyrants, I sort of need a favor reparations from one of you...

Some japanese frame data spreadsheet, on mobile so can't link

 

[Furret]

how did you take 3 pages in a row

 

[Lorde]

I feel the same. I ended up using the white (light grey?) one

I don't like how it looks grey, not white. I've just been using the blue one because the others are kinda meh.

 

[FullMoon]

This has been happening surprisingly often.

Not that I'm complaining.

 

[Shrokatii]

This has been happening surprisingly often.

Not that I'm complaining.

Omg I played a greninja on anthers today and he did that while I was dpit. Well, sort of, he kinda just boosted my upb to go very high so he could punish

Do I suck