Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[RoyalBlood]

I was mentioning other method of killing if you cannot land those <.< geez <.< I think it's clear Zelda kills MK early
And i just found out that Zelda has very very weird hitboxes <.< Most if not all her attacks have hitboxes behind, in front of and/or above <.<
I mean even if you hit with the Leg in a Fair, it still sweetspots D: Well better for me ^_^
So Stages?? I say PS and FD =3

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I was mentioning other method of killing if you cannot land those <.< geez <.< I think it's clear Zelda kills MK early
And i just found out that Zelda has very very weird hitboxes <.< Most if not all her attacks have hitboxes behind, in front of and/or above <.<
I mean even if you hit with the Leg in a Fair, it still sweetspots D: Well better for me ^_^
So Stages?? I say PS and FD =3

I honestly like battlefield... it makes all your aeirials easier to land on him AND you can attack through the platforms with Usmash.... it also gives him hell trying to aim his glide into you safely.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Even though though I started the zelda-Ike thing I didn't even get to participate in it lol. Well ryko did a great job with it so if you still have questions go read the last 2 pages a few times.

 

[Takumaru]

Ah utilt, my favorite move. Everytime I use it I think to myself "lol they don't know it has a lingering hit box".

 

[Brinzy]

Even though though I started the zelda-Ike thing I didn't even get to participate in it lol. Well ryko did a great job with it so if you still have questions go read the last 2 pages a few times.

Pretty sure we've been doing Zelda/Ike before you showed up.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Even though though I started the zelda-Ike thing I didn't even get to participate in it lol. Well ryko did a great job with it so if you still have questions go read the last 2 pages a few times.

Evn though the Ike boards have it as 50:50 ;__; But i'm sure they'll change it later, but 50:50 was good, Oh well

Ah utilt, my favorite move. Everytime I use it I think to myself "lol they don't know it has a lingering hit box".

They always forget it, and it has more range than U-smash and lasts a good time ^_^

Pretty sure we've been doing Zelda/Ike before you showed up.

I think he meant the debate he started again ^_^

So MK is PS and 45:55 or even ;__; i can see even being used =D but i'll use 45:55 for now until i'm pretty sure about it =D

Next update to come =D

 

[TigerWoods]

my usmash is normally so decayed from "comboing" with it earlier that I use utilt as a vertical killer =D.... it kills at pretty low percents....likeeven though people can DI out of the usmash "finisher" its still an amazing move for racking up damage...regardless of its kill potential i dont like saving it....

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

So MK is PS

stadium's edges are unkind to zelda trying to sweetspot them... so I'd need a pretty good reason to pick this over BattleField

 

[RoyalBlood]

stadium's edges are unkind to zelda trying to sweetspot them... so I'd need a pretty good reason to pick this over BattleField

Oh Gosh! , I forgot the ledges, PS is a no no versus MK
Battlefield, don't even think about it, he can Shuttle Loop you here like Pig
I think Corneria is very good since MK speciality are Horizontal KO and with the low ceiling Zelda gets the job done ^_^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Oh Gosh! , I forgot the ledges, PS is a no no versus MK
Battlefield, don't even think about it, he can Shuttle Loop you here like Pig
I think Corneria is very good since MK speciality are Horizontal KO and with the low ceiling Zelda gets the job done ^_^

Corneria has short margins on ALL sides... so he can kill horizontally ranter easily as well.

honestly shuttle looping gets screwed up by platforms some at battlefield... assmuing you don't punish them on your own with a powershield -> Usmash.... w/e... Battlefield is one of Zelda's best stages and she can do nasty things on it... i.e. platform chase with uair to kill MK barely over 50 damage :D

she can also poke through the platforms... Iunno... I'd rather fight MK there than a lot of places.... though corneria probably isn't awful either... it just takes away the benefits Zelda would have on battlefield which also has a ceiling which isn't too high and let's her play with some platforms... Iunno... corneria doesn't sound bad though... at least it won't gimp your recovery like stadium.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Corneria has short margins on ALL sides... so he can kill horizontally ranter easily as well.

honestly shuttle looping gets screwed up by platforms some at battlefield... assmuing you don't punish them on your own with a powershield -> Usmash.... w/e... Battlefield is one of Zelda's best stages and she can do nasty things on it... i.e. platform chase with uair to kill MK barely over 50 damage :D

she can also poke through the platforms... Iunno... I'd rather fight MK there than a lot of places.... though corneria probably isn't awful either... it just takes away the benefits Zelda would have on battlefield which also has a ceiling which isn't too high and let's her play with some platforms... Iunno... corneria doesn't sound bad though... at least it won't gimp your recovery like stadium.

MK also benefits from BF especially with tornado and U-smash, but Zelda does better =D
I guess i'll change it to Battlefield =D

Discuss Shiek for now ;D

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

MK also benefits from BF especially with tornado and U-smash, but Zelda does better =D
I guess i'll change it to Battlefield =D

Discuss Shiek for now ;D

not saying you HAD to... just saying I prefer BF myself.... I'd give others a chance for input


oh and shiek... hrmm... shiek has the WORST weight/size ratio in the entire game... making shiek REALLY easy to kill.... shiek also has a priority problem and a problem killing what can't be gimped by shiek's repetoir.

But, ont he other hand, shiek can apply a preyy fierce pressure game on zelda once shiek makes contact.

the outcome of this matchup is almost entirely dependent on whether the shiek has control of the pace of the battle and keeps it fast, or if Zelda can slow it down... that having been said, Zelda has more tools at her disposal in the matchup.

55:45 Zelda doesn't sound unreasonable... though it could be better or worse.

 

[Takumaru]

Zelda v sheik?

down b, 50:50.

/thread

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

hrmmm... I'll have to try some matches on it... but I just thought about Onett for MK... that has low ceilings, easy platform chasing/poking and no edges for zelda to get screwed off of... but it also has close borders horizontally so MK will get KOs easily too

 

[-Mars-]

not saying you HAD to... just saying I prefer BF myself.... I'd give others a chance for input


oh and shiek... hrmm... shiek has the WORST weight/size ratio in the entire game... making shiek REALLY easy to kill.... shiek also has a priority problem and a problem killing what can't be gimped by shiek's repetoir.

But, ont he other hand, shiek can apply a preyy fierce pressure game on zelda once shiek makes contact.

the outcome of this matchup is almost entirely dependent on whether the shiek has control of the pace of the battle and keeps it fast, or if Zelda can slow it down... that having been said, Zelda has more tools at her disposal in the matchup.

55:45 Zelda doesn't sound unreasonable... though it could be better or worse.

No, this is one of Sheiks worst possible matchups and i'll tell you why.

Sheik is primarily an aerial based character, most Sheik players will approach with a lot of SH aerials. Zelda has priority over Sheik in every aspect(dsmash might have some priority, i'll have to check), and she forces Sheik to approach. Problem is, Sheik can't really approach because of Zelda's fsmash and upsmash. You could argue that Sheik could camp with her needles, but Zeldas reflector takes care of those if you properly time it. Sheiks tilt lock doesn't even hold Zelda in it for that long either. Killing Zelda is also a major problem, vanish and upsmash will be hard to land against Zelda and gimping Zelda isn't particulary easy either. Now I main Sheik so obviously there are some things you can do. Once you get near Zelda she pretty much has only Naryus and dsmash to get you off. You could bait the forward smash, dash into shields, lots of mindgames but on a strictly character basis, Zelda has the better matchup.

This matchup is at least 60:40 Zelda and it might be pushing 65:35.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Well It's true Zelda walls characters that rely on aerials to fight like Sheik, Jigglypuff, Peach, Yoshi, etc. with her U-smash =D As Marsulas said ^_^ Zelda wins in priority over Sheik, i mean, her jab stops HIS dash attack (Yeah i support Sheik x Zelda :D) <.<
Sheik has serious trouble killing Zelda <.< F-smash is easy to avoid the second hit unless you're at the edge D= you're not gonna land that tippered U-smash, and the sides kill at moderately high percents =/ Vanish is also avoided and punished, Uair is somewhat difficult to land too, so you'll be relying on Fair and D-smash <.< Sheik needles can be spoted by a smart player and even if you wait for Zelda to Nayru's Love and in the after lag launch the needles, she'll still be able to shield all the needles >.> Unless you're close to her but not close enough to be hit with NL =D
Zelda also outweights Sheik (but not by much) has more range :o and power
But Sheik wins in speed and comboability (althought not so effective agaisnt Zelda)
The F-tilt lock works at max from 0% like 2-5 times if you DI right, you can even get out of it via Nayru's Love But you have to be careful if you are recovering close to the stage, Sheik can Fair you out of FW and that chain may get annoying, specially if they use it to shield poke (Villi <.<)
All in all I can see it as either 60:40 Zelda or 55:45 Zelda

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

playing against good shieks is still a problem for zelda. Zelda can stuff a lot of what shiek can do to approach... but needles make camping impossible for zelda since they will poke her out of din's before she can even get a fireball out... and she can't really reflect needles unless she accurately predicts them because they are too fast for her to reflect after they are out in most cases.

As for vanish being easy to avoid... it's not. A good shiek is not dumb enough to just throw it out. it has invincibility frames and if zelda does any aerial she can't airdodge in time... so it's all about shiek making Zelda think that there's going to be a fair, nair, bair, uair... whatever... and throwing out Vanish instead.

as for Zelda destroying shiek's approaches with all her priority... it's true.... but it's also true that zelda has to attack BEFORE shiek reaches her... so if shiek can fake Zelda out once, there is normally an opportunity right there for shiek to get inside and start playing a pressure game.
Once Shiek's got Zelda on the juggle, it really is hard for Zelda to break momentum.... now, it IS hard for Shiek to seal the deal... but it's hard for zelda to get shiek into a range to seal the deal... which is kinda a balancing point.... even so... it's zelda's edge....


somewhere in the range of 55:45 - 65:35 Zelda.... that sounds about right.... right?

 

[RoyalBlood]

playing against good shieks is still a problem for zelda.

Equal Skill Please ^_^

she can't really reflect needles unless she accurately predicts them because they are too fast for her to reflect after they are out in most cases.

Sheik needles can be spoted by a smart player and even if you wait for Zelda to Nayru's Love and in the after lag launch the needles, she'll still be able to shield all the needles >.> Unless you're close to her but not close enough to be hit with NL =D

More notable in offline play ^_^ Although the needles-->Din's is a true fact D:

somewhere in the range of 55:45 - 65:35 Zelda.... that sounds about right.... right?

Right

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Equal Skill Please ^_^

I'd like to think I'm a good zelda so a good shiek WOULD be equal skill

 

[RoyalBlood]

I'd like to think I'm a good zelda so a good shiek WOULD be equal skill

The world may never know

lol j/k

Anyway, is Frigate Orpheon good? I'm thinking that Luigi's Mansion is better, you can just stand behind a pillar and needles are taken out of account

 

[Lingy]

The world may never know

lol j/k

Anyway, is Frigate Orpheon good? I'm thinking that Luigi's Mansion is better, you can just stand behind a pillar and needles are taken out of account

Doesn't the same thing apply for Din's Fire?

 

[RoyalBlood]

Doesn't the same thing apply for Din's Fire?

Nope Din's Fire is one of the four projectiles that avoid getting stuck by the pillars, the other three being PK Thunder ( Only Lucas i think) , PK Frezee and PK Flash

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Nope Din's Fire is one of the four projectiles that avoid getting stuck by the pillars, the other three being PK Thunder ( Only Lucas i think) , PK Frezee and PK Flash

also pikmin, ivy's razor leaf, ROB's Laser, boomerangs on their return trip.... and ness's PKfire activates on it so it's not useless... just has a different use.

 

[RoyalBlood]

also pikmin, ivy's razor leaf, ROB's Laser, boomerangs on their return trip.... and ness's PKfire activates on it so it's not useless... just has a different use.

Oh I forgot Pikmin D: Ivysaur Leaf o_o really? I was sure ROB laser got stuck <.< Oh well Boomerang are meaningless since they cannot make their return trip if first they cannot pass throught it ^^ and PK gets stuck, so the pillars fill their purpose but back on topic, Luigi's Mansion is good for VS Sheik ??? and Frigate Orpheon??

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Oh I forgot Pikmin D: Ivysaur Leaf o_o really? I was sure ROB laser got stuck <.< Oh well Boomerang are meaningless since they cannot make their return trip if first they cannot pass throught it ^^ and PK gets stuck, so the pillars fill their purpose but back on topic, Luigi's Mansion is good for VS Sheik ??? and Frigate Orpheon??

depends on how flipply frigate feels that particular match... because shiek DEFINITELY minds the flips far less.... so I'd go with mansion... a safer bet normally..

 

[Takumaru]

Frigate orpheon is nice I guess if only because sheik can't chain recover on one side. Luigi's Mansion is a good stage for zelda almost no matter what, but i thought it was banned. Really stage choice is of little consequence in this matchup in my opinion. Also 55:45 seems more accurate than 60:40. It's not that hard of a fight for sheik but it's not easy.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Frigate orpheon is nice I guess if only because sheik can't chain recover on one side. Luigi's Mansion is a good stage for zelda almost no matter what, but i thought it was banned. Really stage choice is of little consequence in this matchup in my opinion. Also 55:45 seems more accurate than 60:40. It's not that hard of a fight for sheik but it's not easy.

but unlike OTHER tether recoverers.... shiek has a perfectly viable other recovery option still
... and that side ALSO means that zelda has to land on the stage from that side.... which sucks for her

 

[RoyalBlood]

Frigate orpheon is nice I guess if only because sheik can't chain recover on one side. Luigi's Mansion is a good stage for zelda almost no matter what, but i thought it was banned. Really stage choice is of little consequence in this matchup in my opinion. Also 55:45 seems more accurate than 60:40. It's not that hard of a fight for sheik but it's not easy.

So the stage doesn't really matter

55:45 Seems good...right?

but unlike OTHER tether recoverers.... shiek has a perfectly viable other recovery option still
... and that side ALSO means that zelda has to land on the stage from that side.... which sucks for her

But Sheik and Zelda have after-lag after uppon reappeareance, so i guess that evens them out :o

I think Luigi's would be the realiable option and Zelda can survive longer due to the "Cave of Life" (stupid name) <.<

And Luigi's Mansion is a valid CP right?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But Sheik and Zelda have after-lag after uppon reappeareance, so i guess that evens them out :o

I think Luigi's would be the realiable option and Zelda can survive longer due to the "Cave of Life" (stupid name) <.<

And Luigi's Mansion is a valid CP right?

yeah... Mansion is a CP.

and as for "reapearance lag" Zelda has more of it.... lots more. I'd honestly give shiek the advantage on frigate orpheon... as well as being less punished for reapearing on the stage... shiek is much less hindered by stage flips than Zelda is.

Just go to one of Zelda's old standbyes (Mansion or Battlefield) and you'll have a pretty smooth battle.

 

[-Mars-]

yeah... Mansion is a CP.

and as for "reapearance lag" Zelda has more of it.... lots more. I'd honestly give shiek the advantage on frigate orpheon... as well as being less punished for reapearing on the stage... shiek is much less hindered by stage flips than Zelda is.

Just go to one of Zelda's old standbyes (Mansion or Battlefield) and you'll have a pretty smooth battle.

Smashvillle is even an ok stage to pick against a Sheik because of the low ceilings and the fact that it's not very large(combats a campy Sheik). But yes Battlefield and Luigi's Mansion are easily Zelda's best stages.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Smashvillle is even an ok stage to pick against a Sheik because of the low ceilings and the fact that it's not very large(combats a campy Sheik). But yes Battlefield and Luigi's Mansion are easily Zelda's best stages.

Battlefield has a lower ceiling than smashville though.... AND it lets her platform chase/poke better.... I'd alwasy recomend it over samshville for Zelda in this matchup

 

[imdavid]

i always thought an equally matched sheik vs an equally matched zelda, the zelda would win in almost every situation >_> i didn't even think it would have to be debated! :D i would choose animal crossing too, not because of low cieling or what not (the percents difference between most maps would be small as it...) but because since the stage is so small, it gives less room for sheik to run around on and since zelda doesn't move much as it is, it works out both in zelda's favor

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i always thought an equally matched sheik vs an equally matched zelda, the zelda would win in almost every situation >_> i didn't even think it would have to be debated! :D i would choose animal crossing too, not because of low cieling or what not (the percents difference between most maps would be small as it...) but because since the stage is so small, it gives less room for sheik to run around on and since zelda doesn't move much as it is, it works out both in zelda's favor

while I suppose that's true, Battlefield has an even LOWER ceiling, is just as small, if not smaller and has platforms at the perfect height for her to poke/chase shiek through them. I really think that this stage is awsome for the matchup....

... as for stages NOT to pick.... hrrrmmm... wel I wouldn't pick FD... that'd be bad... and I NEVER like Zelda on lylat cruise.

 

[RoyalBlood]

But Battlefield ceiling is low if you're on the upper platform, if you're on ground level is bigger than Smahville, although it's not hard to get Sheik up there ^_^
And just pick Lylat if the other character gets screwed his/her recovery worse than yours <.<
Although Zelda can reappear there with 0 lag from FW and her smashes and tilts are awesome combined with the irregular terrain and low platforms ^_^
So Sheik is 45:55 or 60:40?? I need reminder, and the preferred stage is BF

 

[Takumaru]

45:55, no stage preference if you ask me.

 

[-Mars-]

45:55 and stages shuld be BF first and then Smashville.

 

[RoyalBlood]

I think Sheik is done ^^
And if someone could do some summaries WITH the posts on the thread, it would be appreciated <.< *sucks at making summaries*

Next Match-up coming up ^^ Beep

 

[RoyalBlood]

Well, the thing about Mr. G&W is about pressure -_-
Your F-smash outranges his D-smash
Your D-tilt clashes with his F-smash
Din's Fire is essential at disrupting his aerials, you can't be using it freely, you have to use it when he goes aerial mode = battle
Time your U-smash to beat his key, if not, it will pass right through you :o
Learn to tech his D-throw T_T seriously, it's too good D:
Don't ever never ever try to come to him from above, DON'T
Your F-tilt also outranges and outprioritazes his key Yay! :3 Keep yourself at distance
Zelda kills Mr. G&W early, but he will kill you earlier if you make too many mistakes
This battle isn't so hard to Zelda, the thing is that he pressures you like hell, make one mistake, and you're dead :o
That's my input ^_^

Wait '_' Doble Post D:

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

1) I hate jugle japes for zelda... I just find that she has a harder time than most recovering from a dip in the river.

2) G&W.... beyond a doubt Zelda's worst matchup yet discovered... it's most likely 70:30 G&W.

why? well... because he screws up all your advatages.
- his smashes are fast and pack a hefty punch... allowing him to get low damage KOs against you and to cause you to have a really hard time getting close enough to land a kill move of your own.
-His recovery is rather amazing and is basically impossible for zelda to gimp in any way.
-he's light and small enough to DI out of smashes more easlily than a lot of chatracters
- his air game is frightening and near being broken... quite simply you should never be able to land any of your aerials against a good game and watch.... unless you time a Uair perfectly to conter his dair or nair... but that's always a risk.
- His disjointed aerial attacks let him approach from the air... which, like, no one else can do reliably to zelda.
-If Zelda IS forced to approach (like, he gets a high enough lead), he can make it hard on her... and he has a lot of scary options for punishing zelda's lag.
- A good zelda won't be throwing too many din's at him... but if you ever need to use it... you'll have to think twice because of that darn bucket!
- He's hard for shiek too... not like that matters for a Zelda only thread... but it's something.

 

[-Mars-]

His bair is near being broken, imo that move is easily top 3 in the game. You can't keep shielding it because it eats shields alive.......you are better off rolling away than shielding it......you can't even shield grab the attack.

A thing that I find very useful to defeating a G&W that approaches with bair is exploding Dins right in front of me. Usually you should never do this, but in this matchup it's almost a necessity. Right when you know he'll pull out the turtle, explode a dins right in the lil f*****'s face, then proceed to follow up from there.......don't approach. Another thing you can do against turtle spam is airdodge. Because Zelda has such a long airdodge, if you time it right you can possibly evade the whole attack. These are pretty much your only options against this godly move.

Don't approach but don't use dins either, we all know what a full bucket can do. Fake din's is actually very nice though. If they're medium-range distance away from you, explode a dins right before the hitbox reaches thier area. The bucket does have lag so if used at medium-range you should have time for a running up smash.

Do not go near after he uses the key. You may think that you can get a hit in once he touches the ground, but no he can dsmash almost immediately after. This is also another safe instnce to use dins because all G&W's immediately dsmash after landing from the key.

Unlike most Zelda users, I think Dins is invaluable in this matchup. The mindgames you can do with dins against a G&W are just too good. If they ever get a full bucket on you, this is perfect because you can now use dins to your hearts desire, use it every chance you get and be ready to reflect the bucket(i've done this twice and I almost crapped my pants), nothing feels better than turning this against them.

In conclusion, Sonic I really think you should reconsider about Dins......your pretty much forced to use it in this matchup.