Zelda Franchise Discussion

[Arcadenik]

What I want to see...

Link
Zelda / Impa
Ganondorf (Wind Waker version to fit in with the Skyward Sword characters )
Masked Link (basically it is Toon Link who transforms into Deku/Goron/Zora Links... To fit in with Skyward Sword character... So it is not really cutting Toon Link but he's simply not playable )
Tingle

 

[Opossum]

WHOA, Dragonsniper...Collapse tags are your friends. Use them. Not that I advocate using your friends...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

WHOA, Dragonsniper...Collapse tags are your friends. Use them. Not that I advocate using your friends...

Agreed. I you have more than one image in a post, you should use collapse tags. It makes your posts much more readable.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Agreed. I you have more than one image in a post, you should use collapse tags. It makes your posts much more readable.

Ok, can you please tell me how to exactly do that?

Still don't know how every thing works

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Ok, can you please tell me how to exactly do that?

Still don't know how every thing works

Spoiler

Like this.

Or you could use this icon when creating a post:

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Spoiler

Like this.

Or you could use this icon when crating a post:

Ok, thanks

 

[Gene]

Which is still completely legit, cause Sheik HERSELF has moves who are all made up. And for those who payed attention, Sheik was trained under Impa in OoT. So her following up Sheik isn't only a matter of relevancy and importance of the character, it also makes complete sence.

Every move Sheik did was completely made up, maybe except for Vanish cause thats basically all she does. Impa has actual abilities of herself, with the barrier and magic ball attacks. That's already a lot more than Sheik, plus she could have the Deku Nuts for Down B. Sheik couldn't have it, cause Sheik would always lack a Down B attack.

So yeah, mix up her Deku Nutting / Vanish abilities with a chargeable magic ball similar to the needles for B, and give her the barrier for Side B, and we have a mixed up moveset already for Impa. With multiple appearances even. Now make that lame Side B of Sheik's Impa's grab (including tether / Z Air) and we have a much improved Sheik. Change up a few moves but keep Sheik's tilts and important aerials and we have a character much improved.

She could also have a little mix of Lucario and Lucas's playstyles even if they wanted. That's why she could perhaps be a character with different stances during a fight. She could mix up palm fighting (thinking of it being similar to Wang, from Tekken) with a style similar to Sheik's and a style with her magic, ala Lucario / Lucas. This would make Impa also a 'semi-transforming character' that would be a nice throwback to Sheik. Her being an actual transforming character and all. Tilts and Smash attacks would be the only attacks which would change though. Aerials and specials would always stay the same.

You've got me interested. I would very much like to see this happen if we get Impa in ssb4.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I was thinking, stances could really work as taunts if they wanted. And have an actual taunt for the upmost button. Maybe I'll do a full moveset once if I really feel inspired.

@ DragonSniper: Personally, I'd chose Skull Kid and perhaps Young Link (or masked, but otherwise Majora's Mask inspired is also good) if he's even slightly more unique than Toon Link was. Ganondorf would make the timeless villain, and Skyward Sword Link would have Ghirahim, and Young Link has Skull Kid. Though I'd be completely fine with your roster as well.

 

[Reyson]

Ghirahim has no business being in SSB4 enless he reappears in the next LoZ game, he's currently a oneshot villain which puts him pretty low on the list. If you want a more recurring villain, why not Vaati or Ganon? The latter could take an alterated moveset of current Ganondorf while Ganondorf could finally make use of his sword(s) and magic.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Ghirahim has no business being in SSB4 enless he reappears in the next LoZ game, he's currently a oneshot villain which puts him pretty low on the list. If you want a more recurring villain, why not Vaati or Ganon? The latter could take an alterated moveset of current Ganondorf while Ganondorf could finally make use of his sword(s) and magic.

1. Being one-shot should not and does not hurt a character's chances. Especially since we have already had such characters as Roy, Ness, and Lucas.

2. Ghirahim has the popularity and relevency to get in. A ton of people love him and he played a major role in what would go down as the definitive Wii Zelda game.

3. Vaati hasn't been in a game in years and why should there be two Ganons?

4. Also, theoretically, Ghirahim IS in more Zelda games. He is Demise's sword, so that makes him Ganondorf's sword. Whatever games Ganondorf has a sword (or staff) that is basically Ghirahim.

 

[bubbaking]

I could see Ganondorf transforming into Ganon a la Bowser into Giga Bowser. Also, I could see Vaati being put in. He was actually in three LoZ games (Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, and Minnish Cap) against different generations of Link and Zelda in EACH one. Btw, Ghirahim was in only ONE LoZ game, and he was destroyed in that game. Ganondorf wields different weapons in each of his appearances. For his most recent ones, in OoT, he just had random swords, I believe. In WW, more random swords. In TP, he wields the same sword that the six sages tried to use to kill him. None of these were Ghirahim.

Edit: The logic you are trying to apply to Ghirahim could actually be applied (factually) to Fi, since she is sleeping sealed within the Master Sword and thus is technically in every single LoZ game to date that contains the Master Sword (not every LoZ, but most of them).

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I could see Ganondorf transforming into Ganon a la Bowser into Giga Bowser. Also, I could see Vaati being put in. He was actually in three LoZ games (Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, and Minnish Cap) against different generations of Link and Zelda in EACH one. Btw, Ghirahim was in only ONE LoZ game, and he was destroyed in that game. Ganondorf wields different weapons in each of his appearances. For his most recent ones, in OoT, he just had random swords, I believe. In WW, more random swords. In TP, he wields the same sword that the six sages tried to use to kill him. None of these were Ghirahim.

Even so, Ghirahim makes more sense since he is more recent and plays a big role in that game. Being destroyed is just how he ends up in the game. Vaati hasn't been in a game in years.

Plus I see Skyward Sword taking over the roster like Twilight Princess did in Brawl.

Edit: Yes, that part might but the rest no. :mistyface:

 

[Ember Reaper]

I could see Ganondorf transforming into Ganon a la Bowser into Giga Bowser. Also, I could see Vaati being put in. He was actually in three LoZ games (Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, and Minnish Cap) against different generations of Link and Zelda in EACH one. Btw, Ghirahim was in only ONE LoZ game, and he was destroyed in that game. Ganondorf wields different weapons in each of his appearances. For his most recent ones, in OoT, he just had random swords, I believe. In WW, more random swords. In TP, he wields the same sword that the six sages tried to use to kill him. None of these were Ghirahim.

Ganon has been destroyed/defeated numerous times, yet he still made it to the Brawl.
I agree with Vaati entirely, know that.

But Ghirahim pretty much caused the entire series. If this is a game on the All Stars of Nintendo it would make sense to have the ones who did or caused the most. The main characters and villains certainly did the most. In Ghirahim's case, without him Demise wouldn;t have been revived and tehn destroyed to be reincarnated as Ganon. Without him they also wouldn't have needed to make the mirror (which eventually became the twilight mirror) that caused Twilight Princess and and the twili from making Majora's Mask (strecth there). But with Ganon that is a huge amount of games. He may have been a oneshot, but he caused a heck of lot of damage later on through Ganon. Ganondorf is still the big man for villains don't misinterpret me on that.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

1. Being one-shot should not and does not hurt a character's chances. Especially since we have already had such characters as Roy, Ness, and Lucas.

Your examples come from series that, for the most part, lack recurring casts. Most FE(Anna excepted) and Mother characters are one shots, two shots at best. All three characters were also the main characters in their respective games, unlike Ghirahim, who was not even the Big Bad of his game.

(Also, Roy is technically not a one-shot).

 

[bubbaking]

But Demise made Ghirahim, so NOW who should be in the next Smash?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

But Demise made Ghirahim, so NOW who should be in the next Smash?

Also, according to

Spoiler

Demise all the rest of the villains are his reincarnations

. So if we count

Spoiler

reincarnations

as appearances,

Spoiler

Demise

should totally be in!

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Your examples come from series that, for the most part, lack recurring casts. Most FE(Anna excepted) and Mother characters are one shots, two shots at best. All three characters were also the main characters in their respective games, unlike Ghirahim, who was not even the Big Bad of his game.

(Also, Roy is technically not a one-shot).

Although he still played a big role in it and more people will remember him than remembering Demise.

He is just that memorable.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, Ganondorf's sword is never really Ghirahim. Maybe in the next upcomming games? You know, the reason why I chose Impa is pretty much also because :

Spoiler

she can time warp apperantly, her younger, warrior version came to Zelda from 1000 years or so from the past, with her older version still being alive

. This made me think she can easily re-appear exactly like she her role in Skyward Sword if they really wanted. And I believe that might happen.

 

[Gene]

Vaati hasn't been in a game in years.

And? Relevancy shouldn't matter, if it did we wouldn't have retro characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

And? Relevancy shouldn't matter, if it did we wouldn't have retro characters.

There is a difference between relevancy and recentness.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Retro characters where added because they where retro though. It was on the purpose to revive them so to say.

 

[SmashShadow]

Regardless, I'd rather have Vaati because unlike Ghirahim he represents a good chunk of Zelda games.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

And? Relevancy shouldn't matter, if it did we wouldn't have retro characters.

Relevancy/Recentness only applies to characters that are NOT retro choices. :mistyface:

@Diddy Kong: Agreed, there is a difference

 

[Opossum]

Actually, recentness isn't a factor at all...

 

[Arcadenik]

Actually, recentness isn't a factor at all...

It's not? The way I see it... relevancy means how important the character is to their series/franchise as a whole... and recentness is their latest game appearances.

 

[Opossum]

I just mean that, for example, not being in a game for a while, or even one game, shouldn't knock down a character's chances.

Basically, Recentness=/=Relevancy.

 

[Ember Reaper]

I just mean that, for example, not being in a game for a while, or even one game, shouldn't knock down a character's chances.

Basically, Recentness=/=Relevancy.

I agree. Like some people say Sheik isn't relevant anymore, but she was just in Ocarina of Time 3DS last year. Only half a year before Skyward Sword, which makes her just as recent as Ghirahim and Impa. Their relevance though is debated for all 3.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I agree. Like some people say Sheik isn't relevant anymore, but she was just in Ocarina of Time 3DS last year. Only half a year before Skyward Sword, which makes her just as recent as Ghirahim and Impa. Their relevance though is debated for all 3.

I agree with this

 

[SmashShadow]

I agree. Like some people say Sheik isn't relevant anymore, but she was just in Ocarina of Time 3DS last year. Only half a year before Skyward Sword, which makes her just as recent as Ghirahim and Impa. Their relevance though is debated for all 3.

Although Sheik has been around for 15 years now, she has yet to be in another game other than OoT. My problem is that she hasn't been expanded on in all that time making her importance within the Zelda franchise outside of that game essentially non-existent. Yes she has recent appearances but relevancy to the entire franchise as a whole is small.

The argument of "this event caused all the other events to be like they are" doesn't really impress me either. I could make the same argument about Bardock in Dragonball Z because he started the whole legend of the Super Saiyan thing that pretty much drove all the future events. As much as I like Bardock there is no way I'd put him the top 10 of most relevant characters in DBZ.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Although Sheik has been around for 15 years now, she has yet to be in another game other than OoT. My problem is that she hasn't been expanded on in all that time making her importance within the Zelda franchise outside of that game essentially non-existent. Yes she has recent appearances but relevancy to the entire franchise as a whole is small.

Melee...

I understand that point, I can't combat that point. The Impa in Skyward Sword essentially serves the same roll and does relatively the same things. I say to satisfy everyone's wants, make her an alternate. It satisfies everyone from what I can see.

The argument of "this event caused all the other events to be like they are" doesn't really impress me either. I could make the same argument about Bardock in Dragonball Z because he started the whole legend of the Super Saiyan thing that pretty much drove all the future events. As much as I like Bardock there is no way I'd put him the top 10 of most relevant characters in DBZ.

I don't see what this has to do with Nintendo... I'm saying it should be the influential characters. The ones who pushed the story forward to a very powerful degree. There are the ones who make the story, teh heros and villains and the ones who push the story, cause it, the damsels in distress, the rivals in some cases, the sidekicks possibly. Now that's a rather big spectrum of characters, but only a few cause the destruction, chaos, and pain that Ghirahim did in the long run by reviving the being who becomes the King of Evil.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm going to keep this short. Relevancy and recentness are worth squat with character selection.

 

[Gene]

There is a difference between relevancy and recentness.

Recentness. That's the word I'm looking for.

 

[bubbaking]

I'd still like Demise over Ghirahim in Smash 4, and I say that Demise is the cause of all the evil in LoZ. Demise attacked Hylia and the earth and caused the birth of Zelda. Demise made Ghirahim. Demise uttered the curse which led to Ganon and all the other great evils that plague Link and the Hylians.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

WTH is demise?

He looks ugly

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm going to keep this short. Relevancy and recentness are worth squat with character selection.

You are right but these two factors help characters attract Sakurai's attention. And then it's up to Sakurai to consider or reject them based on their moveset potential or whatever.

 

[bubbaking]

He literally looks like Akuma, or rather, a mix of Shin and Oni Akuma.

[collapse=Demise]

[/collapse]
[collapse=Shin Akuma]

[/collapse]
[collapse=Oni Akuma]

[/collapse]

 

[Big-Cat]

You are right but these two factors help characters attract Sakurai's attention. And then it's up to Sakurai to consider or reject them based on their moveset potential or whatever.

Correction, they attract OUR attention. One of the main things is that Sakurai looks to see who we want (as any developer would). His personal reasons for picking this or that character are surely way more case by case than we think.

@Psycho
Considering his incredibly strong resemblance to Akuma, he's likely based off the oni as was Akuma.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Sheik returns, she better be in Zelda Wii U. But I doubt that's going to happen, seeing as Sheik would to all fans ring the bell immediately that she's Zelda, thus spoil the plot. Hence that I'm having the feeling Impa is much more likely to return, and become a staple in the series.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Correction, they attract OUR attention. One of the main things is that Sakurai looks to see who we want (as any developer would). His personal reasons for picking this or that character are surely way more case by case than we think.

@Psycho
Considering his incredibly strong resemblance to Akuma, he's likely based off the oni as was Akuma.

That's what I assumed, actually

I'm also guessing it's from SS?

I need to play that game. Heard bad things about it though

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's innovative, but plays a bit unlike Zelda in some other aspects. It's not your traditional Zelda by far, both in good and bad ways.