Zelda Franchise Discussion

[Big-Cat]

If Sheik returns, she better be in Zelda Wii U. But I doubt that's going to happen, seeing as Sheik would to all fans ring the bell immediately that she's Zelda, thus spoil the plot. Hence that I'm having the feeling Impa is much more likely to return, and become a staple in the series.

Depends on how Sheik is used though. If the audience AND Link know Zelda turns into Sheik, it doesn't necessarily affect the plot.

That's what I assumed, actually

I'm also guessing it's from SS?

I need to play that game. Heard bad things about it though

Yeah, Demise is from Skyward Sword. In my opinion, it's a great game, though it needs a bit more polish in some level design. It's very puzzle oriented and there are only three areas. There are a few parts of the games that will make you rage just because of what you have to do. Combat system is definitely a welcome change though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Combat is really cool indeed. And exploration of the areas for the first time is also awesome. Once you get to know all three areas, you can get irritated though. Here you'd WISH for an area like Twilight Princess' Hyrule Field, just for the sake of having more ground to cover. But the story handles it well in some aspects

Spoiler

the Trail Tests or example, and when Link loses his equipment on Eldin Volcano

.

I think Sheik cannot be used without at least ATTEMPTING to fool us that for this time, she's not Zelda. But actually is in the end. But that needs to be extremely cleverly done. Just don't think it's time for that though. Unless they wanna mark an end to the series after Zelda Wii U or something.

 

[Deleted member]

Or they could go the whole deception route and try to make it seem like Sheik is NOT Zelda (as in, perhaps have both be on-screen at the same time), then later reveal that any instance that the two were together was just illusion.

 

[Big-Cat]

So Zelda uses Synergy?

 

[Deleted member]

Something like that, yeah.
I got the idea after thinking about that Mirage Pokemon special, when Dr. Yung created a mirage of the Mirage Master to stage his "kidnapping" to avoid suspicion that HE was the Mirage Master.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Was thinking about that to, but even that would be predictable. We all KNOW Sheik = Zelda, the very moment she would appear anyway. So that's why I say she wouldn't work. Not yet anyway. But IF they do it, I think it might very well be in the next game.

 

[yani]

Or they could go the whole deception route and try to make it seem like Sheik is NOT Zelda (as in, perhaps have both be on-screen at the same time), then later reveal that any instance that the two were together was just illusion.

That sounds pretty awesome!

I think a Sheik game has so much potential, but I doubt it would ever happen.

Anyway, I've been playing a lot of Melee lately, and it makes me miss Young Link. It would be great if they made the Links share a slot like the Dragonball Z characters do in their games. Link, Toon Link, MMYL. Good stuff.

 

[Arcadenik]

Or they could go the whole deception route and try to make it seem like Sheik is NOT Zelda (as in, perhaps have both be on-screen at the same time), then later reveal that any instance that the two were together was just illusion.

Oh... like Fight Club?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Whatever they do, it just won't work. Not in another 5~10 years or so.

 

[volbound1700]

I suspect Ghiram has the best chance but I want Skull Kid, I loved Majora and I think he would be a great villian.

 

[Arcadenik]

Skull Kid wasn't a great villain. He wasn't even a villain. He was possessed by Majora's Mask, the true villain in the game. But yes, I love Majora's Mask, too. It's my #1 favorite 3D Zelda game.

 

[Reyson]

While we might know that Sheik is Zelda, we don't know if Zelda is Sheik because that has only happened in OoT. There can be someone working in the shadows that turns out to be Sheik but is unknown at the start.

Or Sheik could be a two player character that can drop in and out whenever someone wants to play along.

 

[Arcadenik]

While we might know that Sheik is Zelda, we don't know if Zelda is Sheik because that has only happened in OoT. There can be someone working in the shadows that turns out to be Sheik but is unknown at the start.

Or Sheik could be a two player character that can drop in and out whenever someone wants to play along.

Not gonna happen. If there's a Zelda multiplayer game... chances are, it will be another Fours Swords game where everyone are Toon Links.

 

[Diddy Kong]

While we might know that Sheik is Zelda, we don't know if Zelda is Sheik because that has only happened in OoT. There can be someone working in the shadows that turns out to be Sheik but is unknown at the start.

Or Sheik could be a two player character that can drop in and out whenever someone wants to play along.

Why Sheik, if we can have Impa? Seriously though, Sheik could probably make sence in the story, but in the end, we'd all know that she's Zelda.

Impa could easily reappear, cause she can warp in time and all. With the help of Hylia of coarse. But who's to say Hylia wouldn't be sending out her protector Impa to one of her future descendant in extreme dire times? Or have a new, but SS-inspired looking Impa? As by now, we also know like Zelda and Link, Impa also reincarnates. Makes much more sence for them to continue that way, instead of trying to fit Sheik in.

 

[Arcadenik]

[COLLAPSE="What if in a future Zelda game, we see Zelda and Sheik as two separate characters... and then the plot twist is..."]Sheik is really Impa in disguise! [/COLLAPSE]

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd probably rofl.

Though, they could both be there if they wanted. Going OoT again, story-wise that Impa trains Zelda to be Sheik. But again, that'd only work if Impa trained Zelda off screen, before the story starts, we get an enourmous time lapse in the story, or travelling from the future / past makes a return. The latter seems most likely, but that would REALLY copy OoT too much.

TP was already received badly by some because it being slightly similar to OoT already. Probably due to this, and due to spoiling the plot, Sheik was scrapped from Twilight Princess. And again, not revived for the next major console release, but Impa was.

See where I'm going?

 

[bubbaking]

I was actually going to say that it would be cool if Sheik became a playable char in LoZ games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Sheik became playable in Zelda however, I'd forever shut up about Impa. Easily.

 

[bubbaking]

Tbh, there has been a lot of time travelling in multiple LoZ games. Off the top of my head, there's Oracle of Ages, OoT, TP (kind of), and SS.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah but it'd needed to be implemented in a way that it would make sence for Zelda to be trained efficiently under Impa to become Sheik. Think that would at least take a couple of years, and not seasons like in the Oracle games Sooo, Sheik would only make sence in a game very similar to OoT. And that's not the direction the Zelda team is going. It's far more likely they'll follow up on Skyward Sword's direction more. But expand on it. Zelda was hugely criticised for copying OoT / not creating the quality OoT offered, so it's doubtful they go in that exact same direction again. Not now at least.

 

[bubbaking]

Oracle of Ages involved time travel several decades into the past/future, not just seasons.

 

[Arcadenik]

IMO, Twilight Princess looked amazing and beautiful... and the controls (GCN version) were superb... the dungeon dungeons and the puzzles and the items were satisfactory at least... but the overworld design felt generic and the story bored me to sleep... and most of the NPCs were not memorable compared to the NPCs in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and even The Wind Waker.

Skyward Sword... I still haven't finished it (still figuring out how to get to the volcano) because the motion controls turned me off and I dislike the tiny, hard-to-read font in the dialogue boxes. And I also dislike the overworld... why are they all separate and not interconnected like in past games? But at least the game really looks pleasing to the eye, no?

Oh, and time travel in Oracle of Ages had you going between the present and 400 years in the past, not several decades.

 

[bubbaking]

Regardless, I was emphasizing that the time travel spanned a duration much greater than just a couple of seasons.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oracle of Ages involved time travel several decades into the past/future, not just seasons.

My fault. I only played the seasons game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Oracle of Ages also brought in the worst of all paradoxes/

You give an item to someone in the past, that you get in the future from the same person.

Implying it's the same item.

Meaning, the item was never created by anyone, and existed for all infinity...

Meaning the item is infinite years old, and therefore should have infinite years of wear and tear...

The item shouldn't exist!!!

 

[Arcadenik]

Oracle of Ages also brought in the worst of all paradoxes/

You give an item to someone in the past, that you get in the future from the same person.

Implying it's the same item.

Meaning, the item was never created by anyone, and existed for all infinity...

Meaning the item is infinite years old, and therefore should have infinite years of wear and tear...

The item shouldn't exist!!!

Uh... in Ocarina of Time... you played a song to someone in the past that you heard from that same person in the future.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Someone else's opinion due to why we might never see Sheik again: http://tolarianguardian.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/sheikvaati/ . Reading that only makes it far more apperant to me that Sheik will most likely never return. Vaati is also discussed, but I never played Fourswords (any version) so I don't have a full opinon of him (played Minish Cap though).

It's not a too long read, but it makes a lot of sence.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Uh... in Ocarina of Time... you played a song to someone in the past that you heard from that same person in the future.

That isn't as bad though because songs don't age

 

[bubbaking]

It still should be affected by the 'Butterfly Theory' just as strongly. You always end up messing with this kind of stuff whenever you **** with time travel.

 

[Arcadenik]

That isn't as bad though because songs don't age

No... but the song can change when they come from memory. You mean to tell me that the windmill man remembered the song for 7 years, with exactly the same notes in the exactly same order?

Assuming the windmill man played it to adult Link and it went ABCABC... and young Link replayed it to him with ABCABC... and then 7 years later, he thinks the song went BCABCA and he replayed it to adult Link from memory... and then young Link replayed the altered song BCABCA to the windmill man... and then 7 years later, he thinks the song went CABCAB and he replayed it to adult Link from memory... and then...

 

[Diddy Kong]

And then? He goes MAD! Spinning that wheel like a crazy mofo and not care about the fact rain is falling upon him WHILST STANDING IN A BUILDING.

I'd almost take him for Smash above Impa... Almost...

 

[Arcadenik]

It still should be affected by the 'Butterfly Theory' just as strongly. You always end up messing with this kind of stuff whenever you **** with time travel.

The "Butterfuy Effect" theory is what led to the three timeline split stemming from Ocarina of Time. If there were time travel in Skyward Sword then that means there should be a fourth timeline where new Zelda games take place in... and this timeline originates from Skyward Sword just like the three timelines originated from Ocarina of Time.

Basically what I am saying is...

SS > OOT > three timelines with old pre-Wii Zelda games
SS > new timeline with new post-Wii Zelda games (OOT didn't happen in this timeline)

 

[Diddy Kong]

So Skyward Sword splits the good from the bad and starts a new, fresh start?

 

[bubbaking]

Then Oracle of Ages should have started its own timeline. Also, SS actually featured two methods of time travel, so how would that influence future timelines? The Butterfly Effect is a little more complicated than that. Consequences should technically be more severe...

 

[Arcadenik]

So Skyward Sword splits the good from the bad and starts a new, fresh start?

It is a possibility. Wasn't Skyward Sword Nintendo's way of celebrating the 25th anniversary of the series? AND then they finally revealed us the true timeline of all the games in the first 25 years? I think maybe the new timeline is to give Zelda a fresh start... some sort of reboot... Ganon is dead in all three timelines... he was killed for good in Zelda II (the "game over" timeline), The Wind Waker (the "adult Link" timeline) and Four Swords Adventures (the "young Link" timeline)... so imagine a new timeline where Ganondorf is still alive and it's thanks to Skyward Sword's timeline split. So maybe for the next 25 years, the new Zelda games might take place in this new timeline?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Could be? I do want Ganondorf to return though.

 

[bubbaking]

Actually, Ganondorf was killed for good in the Young Link timeline in TP.

 

[Arcadenik]

Actually, Ganondorf was killed for good in the Young Link timeline in TP.

Yes, but Four Swords Adventures is in the same timeline as Twilight Princess. Four Swords Adventures is the last game in the "young Link" timeline.

 

[bubbaking]

This source and this source differentiate on where exactly Four Swords took place, but they both agree that Four Swords isn't the end of any timeline. One of them even puts Four Swords before OoT. I believe the end of Ganon in one of the timelines is Oracle of Ages/Seasons, when you kill his crazy revived self.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am not talking about Four Swords. I am talking about Four Swords Adventures.