Zelda Franchise Discussion

[TheCreator]

Well actually, due to the fact that I think there's a good chance Toon Link has been cut because of his stage appearance, and that there is an OOT stage on the 3DS version, that Sakurai might throw in OOT young link, and call him Alt. Link or something like that. Just a theory

 

[Diddy Kong]

However, no Toon Link means no Toon Zelda either. Which you said was the most likely new Zelda rep right? I can't see Tingle happening either. Especially with the Villager's Up B being based on Balloon Flight. And I really don't think Sakurai will add back Young Link again. He has way less moveset potential than Toon Link, unless they wanna make Young Link as cloney as Toon Link was in Brawl, in that case, it works. Not a good choice seeing WW gets a HD remake. So I don't see it happening at all.

 

[TheCreator]

However, no Toon Link means no Toon Zelda either. Which you said was the most likely new Zelda rep right? I can't see Tingle happening either. Especially with the Villager's Up B being based on Balloon Flight. And I really don't think Sakurai will add back Young Link again. He has way less moveset potential than Toon Link, unless they wanna make Young Link as cloney as Toon Link was in Brawl, in that case, it works. Not a good choice seeing WW gets a HD remake. So I don't see it happening at all.

One move is not anything to deconfirm a fairly likely character on. Especially since Tingle's balloon is different anyways. Toon Link is not confirmed to be gone, I just think he might be. If he is though, while correct you are about no Toon Zelda, Tingle becomes that new most likely rep.
And he COULD add Young Link again, you never know. Could even go with the mask gimmick so many people mention, with the basically inevitable MM 3D and all. And actually he has the same amount of potential as Toon Link, but that's irrelavent. If we get alt. versions of the same character, as one of Sakurai's rules, because they are the same character, their moveset will always be the same with minor differences.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mask Gimmick is highly unlikely. Especially if Ice Climbers are already hard to program apperantly. Hence why I think Toon Zelda is also unlikely. Majora's Mask 3D is no given. Especially since Zelda 3DS is A Link Between Worlds.

And I doubt they'd add more clone characters anyway. Tingle had his own issues, and didn't have a game in forever. His popularity was highest during pre-Brawl with his own games. He's only appearing in a remake of WW soon.

Tingle would likely have a balloon based Up B. And since Villager has one already, I can't see Tingle happening. He'd not even popular. And his inclusion would be like, Waluigi being the new Mario character. Why pick the least popular addition possible?

 

[TheCreator]

Mask Gimmick is highly unlikely. Especially if Ice Climbers are already hard to program apperantly. Hence why I think Toon Zelda is also unlikely. Majora's Mask 3D is no given. Especially since Zelda 3DS is A Link Between Worlds.
It's coming. Trust me. If you read the interview about their reasons for making LoZ albw, it sounds pretty likely that next in line is MM3D. Plus the mask gimmick would be nothing like the ice climbers. But I do agree it is unlikely.

And I doubt they'd add more clone characters anyway. Tingle had his own issues, and didn't have a game in forever. His popularity was highest during pre-Brawl with his own games. He's only appearing in a remake of WW soon.

I think maybe you're forgetting that his second game was released AFTER brawl? Yeah no he had waaaaay less popularity pre-brawl. I remember those days. tingle had a target painted over him.

Tingle would likely have a balloon based Up B. And since Villager has one already, I can't see Tingle happening. He'd not even popular. And his inclusion would be like, Waluigi being the new Mario character. Why pick the least popular addition possible?

That would be a terribly flawed reasoning even IF the two balloons were similar at all. Tingle's balloon looks like a hot air balloon in shape, and he has one. Just because he was the star of a Balloon Fight remake, doesn't mean he has to be styled after balloon fighter. He travels with his signature balloon and no helmet A LOT of the time. And if you mean he'd be a joke character then you're right. There's nothing wrong with that. And at your last point, because popularity among fans is bound to bring about characters like Skull kid, Zant, Midna, and Ghirahim. All of whom truthfully have no place in smash bros. But Tingle being in more than half of all LoZ games, and having a string of games outside of that, is the logical next in line character. Regardless of popular opinion.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Vaati should replace ToonLunk.

Link is already in the game so a second Link is boring and lame, I'd rather see a different Zelda character altogether.

I'd like to see either Ghirahim or Vaati replace ToonLunk and become the fourth Zelda character, although I like Ghirahim, I think I'd have to go with Vaati seeing that he is a more reoccurring bad guy, plus who knows maybe there will be a future Zelda game where Vaati returns?

So therefore the Zelda roster should be

Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Vaati

I'm thinking maybe Skyway Sword Zelda might be in, so I'm thinking Sheik might be removed as well.

 

[Sebz]

Let's say that the team decides to make the Toon franchise into its own thing, separate from the standard Zelda reps. They would get a different icon and everything and this would leave for more wiggle room when it comes to adding characters such as Toon Zelda and such. Do you think this would be feasible/possible?

For example:
Main Zelda reps: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf
Toon Zelda reps: Toon Link (revamped moveset), Toon Zelda/Tetra, Vaati

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Let's say that the team decides to make the Toon franchise into its own thing, separate from the standard Zelda reps. They would get a different icon and everything and this would leave for more wiggle room when it comes to adding characters such as Toon Zelda and such. Do you think this would be feasible/possible?

For example:
Main Zelda reps: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf
Toon Zelda reps: Toon Link (revamped moveset), Toon Zelda/Tetra, Vaati

I like this idea, I think it should happen.

Also it could be possible, they did this with Mario characters, if you don't count franchise splitting there is 8 Mario characters on the roster, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Yoshi, and Wario.

Then with the franchise split Mario has 4 reps, DK has 2 reps, Yoshi and Wario both having 1 rep all being balanced out so there isn't too many Mario franchise characters, but we still get the good characters from the Mario series.

The same thing can be done with Zelda, making original Zelda and ToonZelda two separate franchises is a great idea, and I'm all for that idea!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Donkey Kong ain't no Mario character...

 

[Groose]

How would you guys feel if this guy became a playable character?

​

After all, he's proven in the past he has special powers. He can distinguish Link even as a Wolf and can clear the Cave of Ordeals.​

 

[Zuby]

He's certainly more likely than "Young Link."

Honestly, how people can delude themselves into thinking that Young Link is in based on a purely theoretical Majora's Mask remake while simultaneously denying Toon Link despite a confirmed and demonstrated Wind Waker remake is utterly beyond me.

 

[TheCreator]

Honestly, how bad people can misinterpret things is utterly beyond me.

Anyways, I'd like to see another character besides a second Link as well. But that's not very likely in hindsight. It'd be nice because with a second link gone, Tingle could be in because he's the most deserving next LoZ rep, then behind him can be a character like Vaati.

Well actually. I think I do like the idea of a second link. Because the LoZ timeline is so diverse, it's nice to see multiple links. Over two would be just....no, though. And I don't like the idea of a character getting in that isn't really a series longtimer. So I'm not a fan of any one timer. Good thing because their chances are about .5% each anyways.
To me, ideally the roster is:
Link (Main timeline version, the one confirmed.)
Zelda/Sheik (Same, except no confirmed.)
Ganondorf (Same)
Toon/Classic/Young Link (I'm happy with any of these)
Tingle (Most logical and deserving next in line character.)

That said to address something somebody said earlier about how they though SS Zelda was likely so we'd probably lose sheik, a number of things.
1. We didn't get SS Link, So why SS Zelda? If anything a sort of combo between SS and TP.
2. We have already discoverd that because Zelda cannot turn into sheik in whatever game her model is based on, does not mean sheik is going to be cut. Until it is said that Zelda can no longer turn into sheik officially, she'll remain a part of Zelda's character in smash. I doubt that will happen, but if it does even PAST then we'll probably see her in smash.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Honestly, how bad people can misinterpret things is utterly beyond me.

Anyways, I'd like to see another character besides a second Link as well. But that's not very likely in hindsight. It'd be nice because with a second link gone, Tingle could be in because he's the most deserving next LoZ rep, then behind him can be a character like Vaati.

Well actually. I think I do like the idea of a second link. Because the LoZ timeline is so diverse, it's nice to see multiple links. Over two would be just....no, though. And I don't like the idea of a character getting in that isn't really a series longtimer. So I'm not a fan of any one timer. Good thing because their chances are about .5% each anyways.
To me, ideally the roster is:
Link (Main timeline version, the one confirmed.)
Zelda/Sheik (Same, except no confirmed.)
Ganondorf (Same)
Toon/Classic/Young Link (I'm happy with any of these)
Tingle (Most logical and deserving next in line character.)

That said to address something somebody said earlier about how they though SS Zelda was likely so we'd probably lose sheik, a number of things.
1. We didn't get SS Link, So why SS Zelda? If anything a sort of combo between SS and TP.
2. We have already discoverd that because Zelda cannot turn into sheik in whatever game her model is based on, does not mean sheik is going to be cut. Until it is said that Zelda can no longer turn into sheik officially, she'll remain a part of Zelda's character in smash. I doubt that will happen, but if it does even PAST then we'll probably see her in smash.

I think the chance of Sheik going away is very, very low. And that's probably good, seeing since some of the most requested characters are Roy and Mewtwo.

I am pretty sure we'll be getting a slightly modified Brawl design for Zelda and Ganondorf design, and Zelda will have Sheik still.
Unfortunately.


I do really feel like the transformation gimmick really holds both Zelda and Sheik back. I guess a lot of people feel like it would be weird to see Sheik as a separate spot from Zelda, but it's not like they're even the same character, since Sheik would be the Zelda from OoT and Zelda would be the one from Twilight Princess.

It wouldn't be different from, say, adding in Link and Toon Link.

 

[Autumn ♫]

My most wanted Zelda newcomer: Groose

My most wanted likely Zelda newcomer: Vaati

 

[LaniusShrike]

My most wanted Zelda newcomer: Groose

My most wanted likely Zelda newcomer: Vaati

I'll... I'll be honest.

Vaati is super not likely. I would love to see him, but I would definitely put him as my "most wanted unlikely Zelda newcomer".

Why do you want Groose? Because he's entertaining? Do you think you'd enjoy his playstyle too?

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'll... I'll be honest.

Vaati is super not likely. I would love to see him, but I would definitely put him as my "most wanted unlikely Zelda newcomer".

Why do you want Groose? Because he's entertaining? Do you think you'd enjoy his playstyle too?

Vaati's part of the big 3 important Zelda characters that haven't been represented yet, the other's being Impa and Tingle

With Groose, I loved him as a character, especially with his character developement. He begins as a character you hate and then you grow to love him and I would love to see him in future Zelda games. I think I'd also like his playstyle and if he got the moveset I've made for him that would be bonus points.

 

[TheCreator]

Vaati's part of the big 3 important Zelda characters that haven't been represented yet, the other's being Impa and Tingle

With Groose, I loved him as a character, especially with his character developement. He begins as a character you hate and then you grow to love him and I would love to see him in future Zelda games. I think I'd also like his playstyle and if he got the moveset I've made for him that would be bonus points.

More like the big one important LoZ character that has not been represented yet. Tingle.
Tingle is not at all important to LoZ as a series, but beats that with his own.
Impa's importance is pretty nil as well, barely beating Tingle. She has a role that could have easily gone to someone else.
And while Vaati is more important than Impa, and more likely too, He's only important in a few games, and in one timeline.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Honestly, how bad people can misinterpret things is utterly beyond me.

Anyways, I'd like to see another character besides a second Link as well. But that's not very likely in hindsight. It'd be nice because with a second link gone, Tingle could be in because he's the most deserving next LoZ rep, then behind him can be a character like Vaati.

Well actually. I think I do like the idea of a second link. Because the LoZ timeline is so diverse, it's nice to see multiple links. Over two would be just....no, though. And I don't like the idea of a character getting in that isn't really a series longtimer. So I'm not a fan of any one timer. Good thing because their chances are about .5% each anyways.
To me, ideally the roster is:
Link (Main timeline version, the one confirmed.)
Zelda/Sheik (Same, except no confirmed.)
Ganondorf (Same)
Toon/Classic/Young Link (I'm happy with any of these)
Tingle (Most logical and deserving next in line character.)

That said to address something somebody said earlier about how they though SS Zelda was likely so we'd probably lose sheik, a number of things.
1. We didn't get SS Link, So why SS Zelda? If anything a sort of combo between SS and TP.
2. We have already discoverd that because Zelda cannot turn into sheik in whatever game her model is based on, does not mean sheik is going to be cut. Until it is said that Zelda can no longer turn into sheik officially, she'll remain a part of Zelda's character in smash. I doubt that will happen, but if it does even PAST then we'll probably see her in smash.

To me, if we got Toon Link we should get toon Zelda or instead Tetra, but if we don't get Toon Link I think we would get Tingle.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I think the chance of Sheik going away is very, very low. And that's probably good, seeing since some of the most requested characters are Roy and Mewtwo.

I am pretty sure we'll be getting a slightly modified Brawl design for Zelda and Ganondorf design, and Zelda will have Sheik still.
Unfortunately.


I do really feel like the transformation gimmick really holds both Zelda and Sheik back. I guess a lot of people feel like it would be weird to see Sheik as a separate spot from Zelda, but it's not like they're even the same character, since Sheik would be the Zelda from OoT and Zelda would be the one from Twilight Princess.

It wouldn't be different from, say, adding in Link and Toon Link.

You just made a good point, let's not forget all the Zeldas and Links are reincarnations in different timelines, thus making them somewhat different characters.

Meaning instead of removing ToonLink, they should add to the Toon characters as well, those being ToonZelda and Vaati and it doesn't take much to decline ToonLink,

 

[Master Han]

Ganondorf should have Demise's sword with Demise's appearance being an option.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Revival!
Can't believe I let the 1st thread I ever commented on die away like this. So all I have to say is, Vaati for SSB4!

 

[Kamiko]

Has it really been since August that people have posted in here? I expected more activity with the new game, but instead Zelda talk just kind of stopped in general for a while.

I made a Yuga thread, by the way. In case anyone's interested.

 

[Diddy Kong]

We all know it's gonna be Impa.

Spoiler

And Phantom for Down B.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Wow, the latest page of this thing is still debating Toon Link.

Looking at Sakurai's fondness of unique characters we can see why Sheik got in despit only appearing in one game so using her as an augment for Gihraham (Don't care about spelling) is pointless unless you can think of a good way for Lord-Icky tongue to be unique.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Wow, the latest page of this thing is still debating Toon Link.

Looking at Sakurai's fondness of unique characters we can see why Sheik got in despit only appearing in one game so using her as an augment for Gihraham (Don't care about spelling) is pointless unless you can think of a good way for Lord-Icky tongue to be unique.

Lickitung for Smash 4.
No doubt he could be unique, but he could easily join the graveyard of Midna and Zant.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Let's try and think of ways for Zelda potentials to stand out. I can't think of any for Skyward Sword because I've yet to finish it.

Tingle: Either based around gathering something to become more powerful over time or being as (desperately wanting a better word) random as possible.

Impa: Don't know what she does in Skyward Sword but could either inherit Sheik's moves or have her own. Sheikah are basically Ninjas so that opens all kinds of trickery and stealth options.

Midna/Wolf Link: Take the concept of ivysaur and up it a notch. A short character but still has a long body to watch out for.

Eh, that's all I got.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Since Shiek and Impa are basically the same group of people, I think they would act very similarly, which is probably why Diddy Kong wants Impa to replace Sheik, for a more relevant Zelda character.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Midna a short chacacter? When I says that I support Midna, I means THAT:

Not THAT imp form thing:

TRUE MIDNA FOR SMASH!!!

 

[Sobreviviente]

I just want to let this here.

The general idea is that we need another toon character to "balance the zelda representation", 4 realistic and 1 toon doesnt sounds too nice considering who is the likely fourth.

I dont think we are going to get SS Zelda, she was an exception talking about personallity, a "resume" of all the adorable princess in the games, but the "realistic series" aproach to the character is always a more serious and mature image, being the happy and adorable zelda the Toon Zelda / Tetra character.

Impa will not only be like sheik, she also will be like realistic zelda, is just redundant considering this is a crossover. Zelda is even portrayed as a mother image in some smash screenshots, there is no room for her, again, talking about the realistic aproach to the series (although, she has a sword, so.... ).

The toon series could have Vaaty, Linebeck and that guy with the claw of spirit tracks and everybody will love it, there is more variety to choose characters


Not considering how giant, iconic and important to the series are Tingle and Tetra, the biggest wall this characters needs to climb, just talking about the characters chances alone.

Impa's biggest obstacle is being a realistic character

 

[Spire]

Troll harder.

Impa is more iconic and important to the series than Tetra. Tetra has appeared in two games (WW & PH) and the backstory of one (ST). Impa played a meaningful role in SS, OoT, OoA/OoS, and ALBW, as well as being mentioned or appearing in a minor fashion in WW, LoZ, and AoL. There were originally four Legend of Zelda characters: Link, Zelda, Ganon, and Impa. She's been there since the beginning. Only in OoT and to a higher degree SS has she displayed physical prowess and combative potential. SS Impa is somewhat of a spiritual successor to Sheik, and remember: Zelda was taught the Sheikah arts by Impa in OoT. If Sheik's moveset is any indicator of the full potential of a Sheikah, then Impa would deliver completely.

 

[Sobreviviente]

"Troll harder" ?

Tetra was the first zelda with an actual personality, the first to be more than "just a princess saving a kingdom" and the first to not even be the "princess zelda" character but a competely apart person. Tetra was the biggest change of role to the zelda character, considering this is "the legend of zelda", that's pretty damn important.

Tetra is newer than impa, of course she have more appareances, but they where actually important to the series? none of them means a change or something to remember. Not saying Impa is not important but come on, is just a supporter role, the toad of zelda.

Actually, there were 5 loz characters, considering the "its dangerous to go alone" oldman which later serves as inspiration to all the Wisemans (rauru, sahasrahla etc) and Kaepora Gaeobora, characters with more prescence than impa in every single incarnation....

 

[Autumn ♫]

Ladies, ladies stop arguing, you're both pretty. Instead of arguing over Tetra and Impa we should all join over to Vaati's side and support him.

 

[Sobreviviente]

Im not in Tetras side btw, is just the most likely choise.

 

[Sharkarat]

I really don't see what Tetra would bring to the table.

 

[Spire]

I could see any of the following listed groups happening:

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Sheik (OoT/TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Sheik (OoT/TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)
• NEWCOMER

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)
• Impa (SS)

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)
• Impa (SS)
• NEWCOMER

Most possible newcomers (from most likely to least likely): Tetra, Tingle, Ghirahim, Vaati, Midna, Yuga.

I believe at least one Sheikah character will appear: Sheik or Impa. The odds of both appearing seems very slim, but it is possible.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I could see either of the following listed groups happening:

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Sheik (OoT/TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Sheik (OoT/TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)
• NEWCOMER

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)
• Impa (SS)

• Link (TP)
• Zelda (TP)
• Ganondorf (OoT, TP, or WW)
• Toon Link (WW)
• Impa (SS)
• NEWCOMER

Most possible newcomers (from most likely to least likely): Tetra, Tingle, Ghirahim, Vaati, Midna, Yuga.

I have to disagree with Vaati being less likely than Ghirahim, he should probably be up there with Tetra and Tingle.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

It's not obligatory, but the inclusion of Rosalina is an open door to a 5th Zelda rep. And I think we should avoid another incarnation of Link/Zelda/Ganondorf, as the franchise have other things to offer.

Let's start with Impa: I highly doubt she will take Sheik's place. Sheik is Zelda, popular both in OoT and SSB. OoT Impa can fight, for sure, but I don't think she is as popular, and SS Impa have weird proportions, and I don't think it could go along Sheik's moveset.

About Tetra: She has some fighting potential, for sure, but her weapon is a dagger, and we know Sakurai don't like daggers. She could have some weapons like the grappling hook but she have really short limbs, and it won't help her in a moveset's range.

Vaati: Althought Vaati made 3 appearances, I don't think he is a likely newcommer. He may have abilities, but I don't see him having a created moveset that could bring originality. Also I don't like him

Ghirahim: Althought I like him, I also don't see him bringin in originality in smash. Except his tongue

Yuga: Not enough walls



This leads, to me, to only two likely newcommers: Midna (with or without Wolf Link), and Tingle.

Tingle: A recurring character, loved and hated by many people, that can bring a quite unpredictable moveset.
Midna: An original character, by look and behavior, that have manyshown magic abilities. She also comes from Twilight Princess, like Link and Zelda.

But there is counter arguments, like Midna's being "old" now.

 

[Sharkarat]

Hard to take you serious when you think Midna have a chance, but Vaati doesn't.
And she has nothing really unique without Wolf Link.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa is far more than 'the Toad of Zelda'. Impa actually has importance in the plot. Which is far more than Toad did in Super Mario games. Not to say they are not comparable, cause they are but Impa is a lot more important overall, mainly due to her competence. She actually CAN protect Zelda if Link is not around. Can't say the same about Toad and Peach.

Tetra and Impa could both appear if Sheik is gone however Seriously, Sheik is in the way of Tetra to. If not moreso than Impa. What's more redundant you think, a second Sheikah or a 3rd Zelda? And you think Tetra will appear without Toon Zelda, yet Zelda and Sheik remain a duo?

Impa is the most likely Zelda newcomer.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I agree that it's totally biased. And, of course, my point of view is not absolute. I think it's the only Zelda antagonist I didn't liked with Bellum (I didn't played Spirit Tracks yet). While Yuga, Ghirahim and Zant have different reasons to be evil (even if it ends up being the ruler of the world), Vaati is too much "look I'm evil" for me.

About abilities, he obviously have some, but I see him only as a sorcerer. I don't really see how he could bring originality to SSB, we already have Ganondorf who use black magic, in a brutal way. Or a Falcon way
His reborn form isn't really representative, and the ball form can only act as a Final Smash. His human form isn't really looking good to me, and except the "toon" art style, he doesn't really stand out.

I also think a second villain for the Zelda franchise isn't a good idea. Other series needs a villain first.


About Midna's, if I think she have chances (small chances), it's because of her popularity, Twilight Princess style Link and Zelda, overall original look (especially her twili abilities), and possible original moveset with Wolf Link. She can desintegrate herself, warp, create small balls of energy (to break wolf Link chains for exemple), grab things with her hair, create a dark energy field... Wolf Link can add a move similar to Diddy Kong's side B, and and act in many normal attacks.
Yet, I know Twilight Princess is not the most recent game now, that Midna is a secondary character, and the concept of multiple characters being less original, now that we have Olimar & Pikmin and Rosalina and Luma (but the fact that Midna and Wolf Link act as only one character, never being seperated is somehow original)